If Burke is such a good AD how is Northwestern doubling Purdue basketball rev?

[Foolmeoncefan]

If this isn't a reason to run these old hags off the campus I don't know what is. Northwestern has NEVER made the NCAA tournament and their basketball revenue is more than DOUBLE what Purdue's is. Right there is an outright fraud. Take a real good look at those numbers. Burke needs fired on the fast track. I say get rid of him now before the end of the football season. How is that even mathematically possible? What is going on here. How is PSU making more at basketball than Purdue? I had no idea it was that bad. NORTHWESTERN? DOUBLE? AMAZING!!!!!!!


Men's basketball profit (revenue minus expenses):

1. Ohio State - $14,246,586

2. Wisconsin - $11,774,653

3. Indiana - $11,275,513

4. Illinois - $9,542,958

5. Michigan State - $8,474,302

6. Northwestern - $7,755,361

7. Maryland - $6,821,798

8. Michigan - $6,179,411

9. Penn State - $4,853,513

10. Iowa - $4,594,083

11. Purdue - $3,106,981

 

[boilermaker75]

Instead Burke is given a promotion in title and a raise by our think out-of-the box president.

 

[Foolmeoncefan]

Instead Burke is given a promotion in title and a raise by our think out-of-the box president.

I know it is amazing. If there is any reason at all to fire Burke it would be trying to explain to any rational person how it is conceivably possible that Northwestern, a school never one time in the NCAA tourney, never made the dance, and is doubling Purdue basketball revenue. I'd love to hear that one. If I were a basketball player I would come ready for war this year. I'd be fired up over that all year long. Think of what a slap in the face that is to Purdue though. That we are in this position largely based on neglect of the football team. IU doubled our football revenue in the same 3 years ours fell in half with not a single big ten home game win in the same course of time. I find this very interesting. Florida basically forces their students to buy the football tickets and gives them free admission to all other sporting events. If that doesn't exemplify how important football team revenue is I don't know what is. How could it have taken this long for Burke to realize how important a football coach is? Did he never google who the highest paid state employee is in most states. Maybe he should of done that. He is one of the longest tenured AD's, and Northwestern doubles our basketball revenue? Does this guy think a 50 person crowd at the swim competition raises money? Royalties. Think of how much money Purdue must be losing on royalties considering the current state of our brandname? When being reasonable becomes unrealistic it is time to fire the AD and get someone in here who can get things done.


- Florida also cites women's sports funding as a major reason for the nearly $4.4 million in subsidies its athletics program received in 2012, the second consecutive year — and the third time in six years — in which Gators sports programs generated over $11 million more than they spent. (The 2012 subsidy amount was slightly lower than the 2011 number.) However, part of the subsidy funding results from a state law that requires all state universities to retain, and use for women's athletics, an amount equal to the sales taxes they collect from tickets for sports events. At Florida in 2012, this amounted to more than $1.5 million of the more than $1.9 million in government support Florida athletics reported receiving, according to athletics department spokesman Steve McClain. The rest of the government support amount is an allocation that Florida's athletics program receives from the university overall state appropriation for education and general purposes, McClain said.

In addition, roughly 75% of the more than $2.4 million in student athletic fees Florida collects are earmarked for women's sports, McClain said. Those fees — which have not increased since 1992, according to McClain — allow students to buy football tickets at a heavy discount and gain free admission to all other Florida athletic events.

- Texas A&M's program went from getting no subsidy in 2010 and less than $10,000 in 2011 to getting $5.2 million in 2012 – a year in which the program generated $32.7 million more than it spent. The surplus was mainly attributable to a $35.3 million, one-year increase in contributions, most of which was tied to facilities projects, athletics director Eric Hyman said.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

If this isn't a reason to run these old hags off the campus I don't know what is. Northwestern has NEVER made the NCAA tournament and their basketball revenue is more than DOUBLE what Purdue's is. Right there is an outright fraud. Take a real good look at those numbers. Burke needs fired on the fast track. I say get rid of him now before the end of the football season. How is that even mathematically possible? What is going on here. How is PSU making more at basketball than Purdue? I had no idea it was that bad. NORTHWESTERN? DOUBLE? AMAZING!!!!!!!


Men's basketball profit (revenue minus expenses):

1. Ohio State - $14,246,586

2. Wisconsin - $11,774,653

3. Indiana - $11,275,513

4. Illinois - $9,542,958

5. Michigan State - $8,474,302

6. Northwestern - $7,755,361

7. Maryland - $6,821,798

8. Michigan - $6,179,411

9. Penn State - $4,853,513

10. Iowa - $4,594,083

11. Purdue - $3,106,981

You're confusing revenue and profit. This is merely a sign that Purdue is spending far more than NW or PSU, because our revenue is significantly more than both schools.

 

[Augie85]

Still hard to believe they pull in that kind of money when they play in a glorified high school gym seldom full unless the opponent shows up

 

[BoilerJS]

Still hard to believe they pull in that kind of money when they play in a glorified high school gym seldom full unless the opponent shows up

These numbers are not calculated the same. This has all been discussed before on this board. These numbers don't mean squat. Does Purdue bring in as much as OSU or UM in football, no. Is Purdue's athletic revenue more than NW? Yes. Its kind of like the Fed and their numbers, whether corn stocks on hand or the unemployment numbers. Figures don't lie bit liars can figure.

 

[Foolmeoncefan]

You're confusing revenue and profit. This is merely a sign that Purdue is spending far more than NW or PSU, because our revenue is significantly more than both schools.

I get it is profit. Purdue can't be outspending on a margin that thin. This is complete mismanagement. Take for example the athletic department total operating revenue. Northwestern is very close to Purdue and yet is able to break even. They are spending just as much. Between the basketball program between the two, Purdue pays Painter 2.45 million. Northwestern pays over 1 million. That is only a 1.45M difference. The gap between Purdue and NW is over 5 million large. Complete mismanagement. Riddle me this, Northwestern has the lowest operating budget in the big ten. They are operating on revenues of 68 million. That is last in the big ten. Purdue is second to last in the big ten at 71 million. The next two highest schools are Rutgers and Maryland. Pretty sad that Maryland in all kinds of ACC financial trouble comes to big ten and still out gains Purdue who has been in the league earning this kind of money for some time and still ends up this low. So the gap between Purdue and Northwestern is about 3 million. Northwestern is breaking even. Purdue is losing 5 million a year. Our coaching salary is 8th. Our football coach is paid equally relatively compared to NW. Hazell makes 2.25M. Fitzgerald makes 2.2M. Amazing how IU is paying 3.7M in basketball for their coach and their basketball ticket sales out gain Purdue football sales. Burke simply is wrong in every category. And IU is out gaining Purdue in total operating revenue. They are at 84.6. Purdue is at 71.3 (second to last). That is a 13M annual difference. We can't attribute that to basketball ticket sales either because IU is making 6.5M in football ticket sales Purdue was at 9.6, roughly a +3M difference, but the combined total difference of those two sports with Purdue Ball being about -5.7M short of IU is only -2.7. So not only is IU gaining in the annual budget by 13M they are churning a profit of around 5M in surplus while Purdue is losing roughly the same per year. Burke is losing no matter how this data is interpreted. How is IU doing this much better than Purdue in sports when not only has Purdue bball outdid IU these last few seasons, but also IU hasn't been to a football bowl game in over 20 years while Purdue was in the Rose plus 10 bowls during the same time.


1. Michigan - $157,899,820

2. Ohio State - $145,232,681

3. Wisconsin - $127,910,918

4. Penn State - $117,590,993

5. Minnesota - $106,176,156

6. Iowa - $105,958,954

7. Michigan State - $104,677,456

8. Nebraska - $94,797,692

9. Indiana - $84,668,779

10. Illinois - $80,848,569

11. Rutgers - $76,656,339

12. Maryland - $73,434,869

13. Purdue - $71,372,206

14. Northwestern - $68,259,760

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Purdue isn't losing $5M a year. I'm not sure where you're getting that.

 

[Foolmeoncefan]

From the tax return. Purdue did lose 5M in 2013. That is the most recent data we can go on.

Here are the revenues. (NW is private U so they aren't included.) We are dead last in the conference in sports operational profits. We are losing 5 bills a year, at least in 2013. Granted Purdue was previously barely over the break even in surplus category in previous years. That was because the football team was winning miraculously under Tiller, and the drop off really started under Hope when he lost the fan base of football fans. Shouldn't Burke of seen this trend then? How do you lose Tiller and then roll with lowest salary in the Big Ten under Hope for 4 years? Purdue has clearly got to get a new AD with someone running this school who bare minimum understands that football is the engine of the train. No engine no train. Our losses are just beginning to show. With basketball team winning again they might be able to cover this shortfall last year and this year, but lets be real, we are not able to go on like this. No way.

Purdue cannot compete with Michigan when their entire budget, their entire operating revenue, is over double than Purdue's. And Michigan invests in their football program first. That is why they dropped 7 large on the new coach. That then trickles to the other programs. Clearly Burke is not doing this at Purdue, and has translated into disaster with small private colleges like Northwestern even doing better. Burke built basketball sports complex and left football hanging for over 13 years after the initial phase one football stadium renovation was done. That is incredible, at the time when you drop all that money on the stadium he comes rolling like a sucker at the blackjack table lowest football salary style with Hope for 4 dreadful years, lost all that momentum. In reverse, imagine what could have happened had he come with a carefully thought out hire after Tiller, then immediately upped phase two with some flare, now you have increased interest in the program, and all the other initiatives could have taken place at profit during the same time.

And I might also add, during those horrendous Hazell years OSU made around 50M in surplus. Every year we keep this guy that only compounds. Purdue has got to be able to hang around with the big boys at least one out of 3 or 4 times. We can't lose to Notre Dame 10 years straight and expect good things. Purdue has lost 2 in a row to IU. This is assuredly a 3rd straight year in a row. IU is making more on basketball ticket sales than our football team makes in ticket sales. Just outright unacceptable.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

http://www.chicagofootball.com/2015...artments-rank-in-spending-profit-pay/a2quusm/

 

[BoilerBulldog]

So what's your point? We should cut expenses? Or miraculously increase revenue? Maybe just wait for the TV revenue to increase to $40M+ a year in a couple of years? Every person on this board agrees we need a winning football team to fund the rest of the AD. We are spending money in the middle of the Big Ten in terms of salaries, recruiting, etc. and have the lowest revenue in the conference. No one here would realistically think we should cut our expenses now and in fact they will probably go up if we make a coaching change. None of that guarantees revenue increases.

 

[Heller]

From the tax return. Purdue did lose 5M in 2013. That is the most recent data we can go on.

Here are the revenues. (NW is private U so they aren't included.) We are dead last in the conference in sports operational profits. We are losing 5 bills a year, at least in 2013. Granted Purdue was previously barely over the break even in surplus category in previous years. That was because the football team was winning miraculously under Tiller, and the drop off really started under Hope when he lost the fan base of football fans. Shouldn't Burke of seen this trend then? How do you lose Tiller and then roll with lowest salary in the Big Ten under Hope for 4 years? Purdue has clearly got to get a new AD with someone running this school who bare minimum understands that football is the engine of the train. No engine no train. Our losses are just beginning to show. With basketball team winning again they might be able to cover this shortfall last year and this year, but lets be real, we are not able to go on like this. No way.

Purdue cannot compete with Michigan when their entire budget, their entire operating revenue, is over double than Purdue's. And Michigan invests in their football program first. That is why they dropped 7 large on the new coach. That then trickles to the other programs. Clearly Burke is not doing this at Purdue, and has translated into disaster with small private colleges like Northwestern even doing better. Burke built basketball sports complex and left football hanging for over 13 years after the initial phase one football stadium renovation was done. That is incredible, at the time when you drop all that money on the stadium he comes rolling like a sucker at the blackjack table lowest football salary style with Hope for 4 dreadful years, lost all that momentum. In reverse, imagine what could have happened had he come with a carefully thought out hire after Tiller, then immediately upped phase two with some flare, now you have increased interest in the program, and all the other initiatives could have taken place at profit during the same time.

And I might also add, during those horrendous Hazell years OSU made around 50M in surplus. Every year we keep this guy that only compounds. Purdue has got to be able to hang around with the big boys at least one out of 3 or 4 times. We can't lose to Notre Dame 10 years straight and expect good things. Purdue has lost 2 in a row to IU. This is assuredly a 3rd straight year in a row. IU is making more on basketball ticket sales than our football team makes in ticket sales. Just outright unacceptable.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

http://www.chicagofootball.com/2015...artments-rank-in-spending-profit-pay/a2quusm/

At one point Purdue was one of only about a dozen schools that were in the black financially and about the only large school. A lot of this has to do with how the whole process is set up in accounting. Some schools include parking, concessions, etc. while some others do not. Basically these numbers mean nothing in a particular sport but what is true is that Purdue has done a good job shoring up the gaping holes of non revenue sport facilities and at the same time trying to stay relevant in the major sports. You can carp all you want about Burke but Purdue has been fortunate financially to have him running the department.

One example that may make some sense to you is that a school like NW for example, doesn't have in state/out of state tuition differences. Purdue does. So every football, basketball or other scholarship that Purdue gives to a kid not from Indiana is accounted for as a out of state scholarship thus raising the cost even though the actual cost of educating one versus the other is the same. Given that we are not much of a prep football state, a majority of the John Purdue Funding of scholarships is done using out of state figures. Or at least I was told that the administration does charge the full out of state rate for kids not from Indiana. (My data is somewhat old and that may have changed.)

 

[AZboiler]

How much of the Athletic Dept Revenue / Profit burdened by the Stadia construction costs (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Aquatic center)

 

[Courthouse Carp]

At one point Purdue was one of only about a dozen schools that were in the black financially and about the only large school. A lot of this has to do with how the whole process is set up in accounting. Some schools include parking, concessions, etc. while some others do not. Basically these numbers mean nothing in a particular sport but what is true is that Purdue has done a good job shoring up the gaping holes of non revenue sport facilities and at the same time trying to stay relevant in the major sports. You can carp all you want about Burke but Purdue has been fortunate financially to have him running the department.

One example that may make some sense to you is that a school like NW for example, doesn't have in state/out of state tuition differences. Purdue does. So every football, basketball or other scholarship that Purdue gives to a kid not from Indiana is accounted for as a out of state scholarship thus raising the cost even though the actual cost of educating one versus the other is the same. Given that we are not much of a prep football state, a majority of the John Purdue Funding of scholarships is done using out of state figures. Or at least I was told that the administration does charge the full out of state rate for kids not from Indiana. (My data is somewhat old and that may have changed.)

LMFAO

Our Directors Cup standing in the B1G the last 23 years and our decline in ticket sales say otherwise.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

How much of the Athletic Dept Revenue / Profit burdened by the Stadia construction costs (Football, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Aquatic center)

I assume this is all EBITDA, but who really knows. I wouldn't be surprised at all of some schools handle it differently than other ones.

 

[IndySouthsider]

You're confusing revenue and profit. This is merely a sign that Purdue is spending far more than NW or PSU, because our revenue is significantly more than both schools.

Can we determine who pays for upkeep of the facilities?

Does the athletic dept. pay for Mackey?

Does NW athletic dept pay for Welch-Ryan?

 

[Heller]

LMFAO

Our Directors Cup standing in the B1G the last 23 years and our decline in ticket sales say otherwise.

And yet Purdue under Burke has been used as an example of a department that is self sustaining without support from student fees or support from the academic side or State.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Can we determine who pays for upkeep of the facilities?

Does the athletic dept. pay for Mackey?

Does NW athletic dept pay for Welch-Ryan?

I'm not 100% sure but I believe the AD pays a facility fee to the university for using and up keeping the facilities.

 

[Courthouse Carp]

And yet Purdue under Burke has been used as an example of a department that is self sustaining without support from student fees or support from the academic side or State.

Uh-huh, and I think that is wonderful, I really do; fortunately Joe Tiller's winning helped a lot. Will we be able to say that anymore? Perhaps, perhaps not; if so, only because of BTN money.

The bottom line is we are not even in the same area code as our potential, and we are not competitive whatsover in most of athletic programs.
There are ZERO excuses for that and it falls on our failure of an athletic department.

 

[Grad2009DPT]

I laugh at the idea this board complains about the revenue being too low, while at the same time complaining ticket prices are too high. Sounds like an Oxymoron.

 

[Foolmeoncefan]

I laugh at the idea this board complains about the revenue being too low, while at the same time complaining ticket prices are too high. Sounds like an Oxymoron.

It would be an oxymoron if the athletic director wasn't an actual moron. You can't charge the price of a Ferrari when you are selling a 1950's junker. At least lower the prices so you can get the gaggle of junker lovers in the stands. Because you ain't going to get the Ferrari lovers. You want Ferrari lover fans paying Ferrari lover prices than start copying Michigan. Their ticket sales are around 50 million. Our ticket sales were 9 million 3 years ago. Things have fallen quite considerably since then football wise. Michigan games are tradition, fun, exciting, there is a theme, people are involved, it is a staple on campus. We are playing in a football field that has a gigantic press box overshadowing a high school looking bleacher arrangement with long line concession stands, and tailgate restrictions. It is like a culture of making fun illegal. How about lets legalize fun, get a real AD with a commitment to winning, let him hire a coach (who knows more than 1 or two plays and doesn't have the same formation each 1st thru 4th down), let him get this stadium in order. Then they can talk to us about raising ticket prices again when the alumni are interested in bringing their kids down and family down to watch the game and maybe some students would show up too if half the student body wasn't from some country overseas. Lets start admitting more American students and watch that money pour in. Our AD wants to fund Purdue athletics with the softball team and track ticket sales. Sugardaddy needs funds. Sugarmamma needs some attention here. Someone needs to feed the sugardaddy and let him grow so that the rest of things can get done.