I do not understand why Brohm is unable to get his teams to win big games early in the season

[arcb102000]

There is a consistent pattern of failure to close out an important game early in the season. Later in the season his teams tend to do much better.

The consistent failure to tackle properly was huge last night. I do not understand what the DBs were doing and why it ws allowed to continue by the coaching staff. Poor tackling was a significant contributor to this loss.

A

 

[Poprudy]

I will say they were prepared. Some say clock management was an issue, but that to me is actually game management. You run plays that manage the game and worry less where the clock is.

Brohm is just a pass first guy and has great confidence in AOC which is good, but we ran the ball better than Penn State and should've had a better plan for our running game.

 

[ASM_boiler]

There is a consistent pattern of failure to close out an important game early in the season. Later in the season his teams tend to do much better.

The consistent failure to tackle properly was huge last night. I do not understand what the DBs were doing and why it ws allowed to continue by the coaching staff. Poor tackling was a significant contributor to this loss.

A

We didn’t get much of our starting DB core healthy until this past week, so there’s some rust to knock off.

 

[Poprudy]

We didn’t get much of our starting DB core healthy until this past week, so there’s some rust to knock off.

Agree, but Cam over played 2 crucial plays that lead to a TD. He didn't play well last night.

 

[ASM_boiler]

I will say they were prepared. Some say clock management was an issue, but that to me is actually game management. You run plays that manage the game and worry less where the clock is.

Brohm is just a pass first guy and has great confidence in AOC which is good, but we ran the ball better than Penn State and should've had a better plan for our running game.

I think last night was a situation that more showed the limitations of the Brohm-style offense. The assumption that’s implicitly made when people argue “run the ball to keep the clock rolling” is that the run game is functional enough to serve that purpose. As we’ve typically seen with Brohm’s Purdue teams, that hasn’t been the case. And, it being the first game of a new season, do you really know if that’s changed?

When you have to close out a tight game, you want to lean on the plays you know your team can execute with decently high success. For Purdue, that’s mostly pass plays. We aren’t built to run the ball and eat clock, so why do something that, even though “common sense” may dictate you should do it, that you’re not good at?

This is where Brohm’s offensive system can be a problem. We need to have more versatility in terms of plays we can execute well. More “easy plays” as Brian put it. When we don’t, we force ourselves to win games in a very specific way, and that ultimately limits our ceiling.

 

[Poprudy]

I think last night was a situation that more showed the limitations of the Brohm-style offense. The assumption that’s implicitly made when people argue “run the ball to keep the clock rolling” is that the run game is functional enough to serve that purpose. As we’ve typically seen with Brohm’s Purdue teams, that hasn’t been the case. And, it being the first game of a new season, do you really know if that’s changed?

When you have to close out a tight game, you want to lean on the plays you know your team can execute with decently high success. For Purdue, that’s mostly pass plays. We aren’t built to run the ball and eat clock, so why do something that, even though “common sense” may dictate you should do it, that you’re not good at?

This is where Brohm’s offensive system can be a problem. We need to have more versatility in terms of plays we can execute well. More “easy plays” as Brian put it. When we don’t, we force ourselves to win games in a very specific way, and that ultimately limits our ceiling.

I completely understand Brohm's system. Great coaches grow and are willing to flex their system to the game plan that has the higher probability of winning. When your teams stats essentially lead in every category, but lose. Then it most likely was a coaches game plan that failed.

Late in the game those same plays weren't "easy system plays" to make. So, you adjust to a game plan that gives your team the best shot at winning. We consistently were 2nd or 3rd in long during that last 6-7 minute period. We abandoned the run game and brohm expected a different outcome. Penn State stayed true to the run game which was a huge advantage late.

 

[pboiler18]

Agree, but Cam over played 2 crucial plays that lead to a TD. He didn't play well last night.

Was downright awful for a “senior leader”. Kane and Jefferson look to be every bit of better players right now. No reason that Allen should be on the field shoulder tackling and taking bad angles.

I think he’s a good player, just didn’t show any of that last night.

 

[ASM_boiler]

I completely understand Brohm's system. Great coaches grow and are willing to flex their system to the game plan that has the higher probability of winning. When your teams stats essentially lead in every category, but lose. Then it most likely was a coaches game plan that failed.

Late in the game those same plays weren't "easy system plays" to make. So, you adjust to a game plan that gives your team the best shot at winning. We consistently were 2nd or 3rd in long during that last 6-7 minute period. We abandoned the run game and brohm expected a different outcome. Penn State stayed true to the run game which was a huge advantage late.

I largely agree, and I generally don’t have a problem with trying to pass to set up the run.

My issue is that we don’t have multiple ways to beat teams. We either pass the ball well, or we’re in trouble. Which is exactly what happened at the end of the game last night. Like you said we didn’t have the “easy system plays.” That tells me we need to have more and better easy plays for when the normal ones don’t work. Makes it hard to adjust a game plan when your team is built to do one thing well.

 

[FirstDownB]

Was downright awful for a “senior leader”. Kane and Jefferson look to be every bit of better players right now. No reason that Allen should be on the field shoulder tackling and taking bad angles.

I think he’s a good player, just didn’t show any of that last night.

He's always had some issues with inconsistency. He did not have a good bowl game either.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Agree, but Cam over played 2 crucial plays that lead to a TD. He didn't play well last night.

Taylor was a bigger issue.

 

[Poprudy]

Taylor was a bigger issue.

He was just as bad, but as we know, the safety has to make that play. If not, he isn't doing his 1 job preventing those 2 plays. To me that's more on the safety not doing his 1 job. The only purpose he's in there.

 

[SDBoiler1]

He was just as bad, but as we know, the safety has to make that play. If not, he isn't doing his 1 job preventing those 2 plays. To me that's more on the safety not doing his 1 job. The only purpose he's in there.

How many whiffed tackles are acceptable? Taylor’s tackling (lack thereof) led to 2 scores - the second one a few plays later - the first one on the play itself.

 

[NVboiler]

How many whiffed tackles are acceptable? Taylor’s tackling (lack thereof) led to 2 scores - the second one a few plays later - the first one on the play itself.

Perhaps that's why he was in the portal. I don't believe that they did much tackling in the camp, perhaps this deficiency wasn't known.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Perhaps that's why he was in the portal. I don't believe that they did much tackling in the camp, perhaps this deficiency wasn't known.

Or he wanted to get out of a program that seemingly is heading in the wrong direction and play his final season on one heading in a better direction with a better chance to play in the post-season, also with a number of his childhood friends?

 

[TMFT]

Perhaps that's why he was in the portal. I don't believe that they did much tackling in the camp, perhaps this deficiency wasn't known.

That’s interesting because I always said Reese was one of the better tackling CBS I’ve seen. It’s certainly odd he’d have a regression at this point.

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

Was Trice hurt? I dont recall seeing him late in the game.

 

[TheGunner]

There is a consistent pattern of failure to close out an important game early in the season. Later in the season his teams tend to do much better.

The consistent failure to tackle properly was huge last night. I do not understand what the DBs were doing and why it ws allowed to continue by the coaching staff. Poor tackling was a significant contributor to this loss.

A

You do realize that we beat Iowa in the season opener in 2020 (scoring a late TD…similar to what PSU did)

And in 2021 we beat Oregon State to open the season.

 

[arcb102000]

You do realize that we beat Iowa in the season opener in 2020 (scoring a late TD…similar to what PSU did)

And in 2021 we beat Oregon State to open the season.

I also recall Nevada, NW, EMU, Missouri and TCU. Each of these games were winnable games early in the season against fair/mediocre teams that Purdue lost. For whatever reason, Brohm's teams generally start slowly.

 

[TheGunner]

I also recall Nevada, NW, EMU, Missouri and TCU. Each of these games were winnable games early in the season against fair/mediocre teams that Purdue lost. For whatever reason, Brohm's teams generally start slowly.

The year we lost to NW to start the season in 2018, they went to the Big Ten Championship game.

 

[Wolegib]

Perhaps a more accurate statement would be Purdue makes a lot of mistakes and does not play to their true potential in their opening games. Many times they are still undecided at QB. And often times they play down to the level of their opponent.

 

[FirstDownB]

Fun fact. Brian has coached the same number of Purdue opening day wins as Jeff.

 

[arcb102000]

The year we lost to NW to start the season in 2018, they went to the Big Ten Championship game.

I posted "generally", not always as to losing games to fair/mediocre teams early in the season. As I recall, NW got beaten fairly handily in the B1G championship game so I am not sure that was a great NW winning season. Good for them, but NW is rarely really good. I do respect Fitzgerald quite a bit as a coach.

 

[rgarlitz]

I posted "generally", not always as to losing games to fair/mediocre teams early in the season. As I recall, NW got beaten fairly handily in the B1G championship game so I am not sure that was a great NW winning season. Good for them, but NW is rarely really good. I do respect Fitzgerald quite a bit as a coach.

So, Purdue is 2-4 in season openers under Brohm, which isn't ideal. Five of those six opponents have been P5 teams, for what that's worth. Purdue was outmatched against Louisville in Brohm's first game and did a good job to just make it competitive. Sloppy play and bad turnovers cost Purdue winnable openers against Nevada and Northwestern. Then Purdue won two back-to-back openers against quality opponents (Iowa, Oregon State), and it looked like the trend was starting to break Purdue's way.

I thought Purdue played well enough to win for much of the night against Penn State. But, just being blunt, Penn State dominated the last couple minutes of each half. Things really fell apart after that dramatic pick-6. Purdue didn't get any pressure on Clifford during Penn State's last scoring drive. Then, a vanilla PSU pass rush got to O'Connell, I think twice, on Purdue's last possession. Gotta do a better job of slamming the door.

 

[SDBoiler1]

So, Purdue is 2-4 in season openers under Brohm, which isn't ideal. Five of those six opponents have been P5 teams, for what that's worth. Purdue was outmatched against Louisville in Brohm's first game and did a good job to just make it competitive. Sloppy play and bad turnovers cost Purdue winnable openers against Nevada and Northwestern. Then Purdue won two back-to-back openers against quality opponents (Iowa, Oregon State), and it looked like the trend was starting to break Purdue's way.

I thought Purdue played well enough to win for much of the night against Penn State. But, just being blunt, Penn State dominated the last couple minutes of each half. Things really fell apart after that dramatic pick-6. Purdue didn't get any pressure on Clifford during Penn State's last scoring drive. Then, a vanilla PSU pass rush got to O'Connell, I think twice, on Purdue's last possession. Gotta do a better job of slamming the door.

Start by having DBs wrap up and tackle instead of trying to thud the offensive player down. We gave up two long TDs because of this alone (Kane/Allen against the TD after the Sheffield fumble before halftime and the later by Taylor). Also, clean up the penalties.

 

[Wolegib]

Purdue has also had some very bad losses against teams they should have rolled over. As if they played to the level of their opponent! Championship teams find ways to win the games they should win.

Iowa has looked really bad in a lot of games, but they find a way to win. Nebraska on the other hand finds a way to lose! Purdue needs to find a way to win even when their stats suggest they should lose

 

[SDBoiler1]

Purdue has also had some very bad losses against teams they should have rolled over. As if they played to the level of their opponent! Championship teams find ways to win the games they should win.

Iowa has looked really bad in a lot of games, but they find a way to win. Nebraska on the other hand finds a way to lose! Purdue needs to find a way to win even when their stats suggest they should lose

You mean like games vs Top 5 OSU in 2018, #2 Iowa at Iowa and #3 MSU last year? Yes, Purdue always finds ways to lose……🙄😵‍💫

 

[rgarlitz]

You mean like games vs Top 5 OSU in 2018, #2 Iowa at Iowa and #3 MSU last year? Yes, Purdue always finds ways to lose……🙄😵‍💫

Well, to be fair, I think he's talking more about the EMU and Nevada type games. But, yes, Purdue has also won some remarkable upsets under Brohm. I guess that's been the book on him 5+ years into his Purdue tenure. His teams have logged some very exciting wins and injected much-needed energy into the program and fan base. But, he's also had some very disappointing losses. No way the PSU game was on the same level as Nevada or EMU. It felt more like Purdue's disappointing losses to Minnesota/Nebraska/Rutgers---winnable conference games that Purdue let get away.

By my count, Purdue is 11-17 in one-score games under Brohm, which I guess is about what you'd expect for a guy who's hovering just below .500. Purdue has finished with a winning record in one-score games once in his tenure: last year's 9-4 breakthrough. His Purdue legacy will probably hang on his ability to reverse that record in close games.

 

[SCBoiler1]

I guess we're finally getting to the point were there are certain games Purdue should expect to win (Rutgers, IU, Ill) and games you'd expect us to lose (OSU, Mich, Wis) all other games are toss ups in my opinion. We're at the point we can beat teams like Penn State, Iowa, Minn and Michigan State but I don't think we're at the point we can expect it.

 

[purduepat1969]

I guess we're finally getting to the point were there are certain games Purdue should expect to win (Rutgers, IU, Ill) and games you'd expect us to lose (OSU, Mich, Wis) all other games are toss ups in my opinion. We're at the point we can beat teams like Penn State, Iowa, Minn and Michigan State but I don't think we're at the point we can expect it.

Agreed. We're much better in the trenches, especially depth wise. But we have too many weak points and question marks to expect to beat those teams without issue. Games against teams like Penn St almost need to be executed flawlessly for this team to win.

Got to shore up the LBs, DEs, and get more of a home run hitting RB.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

So, Purdue is 2-4 in season openers under Brohm, which isn't ideal. Five of those six opponents have been P5 teams, for what that's worth. Purdue was outmatched against Louisville in Brohm's first game and did a good job to just make it competitive. Sloppy play and bad turnovers cost Purdue winnable openers against Nevada and Northwestern. Then Purdue won two back-to-back openers against quality opponents (Iowa, Oregon State), and it looked like the trend was starting to break Purdue's way.

I thought Purdue played well enough to win for much of the night against Penn State. But, just being blunt, Penn State dominated the last couple minutes of each half. Things really fell apart after that dramatic pick-6. Purdue didn't get any pressure on Clifford during Penn State's last scoring drive. Then, a vanilla PSU pass rush got to O'Connell, I think twice, on Purdue's last possession. Gotta do a better job of slamming the door.

Naturally, this game could have gone either way. One tough pill to swallow for the Boilers is that after the interception-return TD to get the lead, the defense stopped Penn State TWICE in the latter stages of the 4th quarter. That's usually good enough to win. Unfortunately, the defense was a little gassed by the third time when the Boiler offense failed to put the nail in the coffin.

 

[rgarlitz]

Naturally, this game could have gone either way. One tough pill to swallow for the Boilers is that after the interception-return TD to get the lead, the defense stopped Penn State TWICE in the latter stages of the 4th quarter. That's usually good enough to win. Unfortunately, the defense was a little gassed by the third time when the Boiler offense failed to put the nail in the coffin.

Yeah, that's a good point. I was sloppy with what I wrote. Things didn't fall apart until the very end of each half.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Naturally, this game could have gone either way. One tough pill to swallow for the Boilers is that after the interception-return TD to get the lead, the defense stopped Penn State TWICE in the latter stages of the 4th quarter. That's usually good enough to win. Unfortunately, the defense was a little gassed by the third time when the Boiler offense failed to put the nail in the coffin.

Tackle better and it’s all a moot point.

 

[purduepat1969]

Tackle better and it’s all a moot point.

I agree. But also run the ball to run down the clock when you need to.

 

[BBG]

Tackle better and it’s all a moot point.

I would also add not getting three penalties on a 3rd down in the first half that led to a score, or the other drive that was stopped only to get hit with a penalty and a score and then the fumble thingy to end the first half.

Remove just one of those and the rest is moot. There are issues to clean up sure, I mean it was the first game of the season so it's bound to happen. but some of that stuff is just being a bonehead on the field.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

I agree. But also run the ball to run down the clock when you need to.

Have not said much of anything since that game. My thoughts to the loss:
1) Running the ball or using swing or pop passes to keep the clock going cost us more since we had the game won. Where is that one trick play that Brohm was good at doing? No risk = no reward. While it can backfire, it can equally take all the steam out of the other team if pulled off to perfection.

2) Purdue played well enough to lose on Thursday vs well enough to win. A lot of that is on coach himself (see #1 above). Yes, poor tackling contributed two a quick 14 points, but not running killed the opportunity to close the game out. Oh, I hope they tell WRs and RBs from this point forward, ball must be to the outside hand 100% of the time vs inside to avoid easy strip. If not, get another WR and RB that will. I'm talking to TJ Sheffield and hope to hell coaches are as well. Ball in the wrong hand is a Little League football fundamental mistake. Send pine time message for errors that are that bad. Give him a ball all week long to carry in practice and it better damn well be to the sideline side of the field. If not, take a seat on 3rd string. Send a message loud and clear. That alone was a minimum 10 point...possibly 14 point swing.

3) Tackling must use the wrap, same message as above applies. No wrap, no playing time. Big hits without wrapping = TD or setting up a TD. Goes back to the fundamentals of the game. By middle school, you either can do it or not. If you can't, go to 3rd string and teach yourself while others play over you.

4) I'm tired of moral victories, just get the victory. Stop losing 1st games of the year and specifically stop losing to PSU, WI and MN. All that plus 3 other QBs had better opening day QBr's than AOC. If that doesn't get corrected soon, WI and MN will still be thorns in Purdue and Brohm's side.

It may sound harsh, but they are not being asked to do more than the fundamentals of football. Do your job and the game takes care of itself. Trying to do more than they were capable of (big hits, and extra yardage) cost Purdue dearly in big plays. Finally, coach do your job! Be responsible to say that lack of running the ball is on you and you need to commit better at doing that.

Signed,
Frustrated from in the stands. MilwaukeeBoilerFan

 

[purduepat1969]

Have not said much of anything since that game. My thoughts to the loss:
1) Running the ball or using swing or pop passes to keep the clock going cost us more since we had the game won. Where is that one trick play that Brohm was good at doing? No risk = no reward. While it can backfire, it can equally take all the steam out of the other team if pulled off to perfection.

2) Purdue played well enough to lose on Thursday vs well enough to win. A lot of that is on coach himself (see #1 above). Yes, poor tackling contributed two a quick 14 points, but not running killed the opportunity to close the game out. Oh, I hope they tell WRs and RBs from this point forward, ball must be to the outside hand 100% of the time vs inside to avoid easy strip. If not, get another WR and RB that will. I'm talking to TJ Sheffield and hope to hell coaches are as well. Ball in the wrong hand is a Little League football fundamental mistake. Send pine time message for errors that are that bad. Give him a ball all week long to carry in practice and it better damn well be to the sideline side of the field. If not, take a seat on 3rd string. Send a message loud and clear. That alone was a minimum 10 point...possibly 14 point swing.

3) Tackling must use the wrap, same message as above applies. No wrap, no playing time. Big hits without wrapping = TD or setting up a TD. Goes back to the fundamentals of the game. By middle school, you either can do it or not. If you can't, go to 3rd string and teach yourself while others play over you.

4) I'm tired of moral victories, just get the victory. Stop losing 1st games of the year and specifically stop losing to PSU, WI and MN. All that plus 3 other QBs had better opening day QBr's than AOC. If that doesn't get corrected soon, WI and MN will still be thorns in Purdue and Brohm's side.

It may sound harsh, but they are not being asked to do more than the fundamentals of football. Do your job and the game takes care of itself. Trying to do more than they were capable of (big hits, and extra yardage) cost Purdue dearly in big plays. Finally, coach do your job! Be responsible to say that lack of running the ball is on you and you need to commit better at doing that.

Signed,
Frustrated from in the stands. MilwaukeeBoilerFan

Totally agree...

 

[leodisflowers]

Have not said much of anything since that game. My thoughts to the loss:
1) Running the ball or using swing or pop passes to keep the clock going cost us more since we had the game won. Where is that one trick play that Brohm was good at doing? No risk = no reward. While it can backfire, it can equally take all the steam out of the other team if pulled off to perfection.

2) Purdue played well enough to lose on Thursday vs well enough to win. A lot of that is on coach himself (see #1 above). Yes, poor tackling contributed two a quick 14 points, but not running killed the opportunity to close the game out. Oh, I hope they tell WRs and RBs from this point forward, ball must be to the outside hand 100% of the time vs inside to avoid easy strip. If not, get another WR and RB that will. I'm talking to TJ Sheffield and hope to hell coaches are as well. Ball in the wrong hand is a Little League football fundamental mistake. Send pine time message for errors that are that bad. Give him a ball all week long to carry in practice and it better damn well be to the sideline side of the field. If not, take a seat on 3rd string. Send a message loud and clear. That alone was a minimum 10 point...possibly 14 point swing.

3) Tackling must use the wrap, same message as above applies. No wrap, no playing time. Big hits without wrapping = TD or setting up a TD. Goes back to the fundamentals of the game. By middle school, you either can do it or not. If you can't, go to 3rd string and teach yourself while others play over you.

4) I'm tired of moral victories, just get the victory. Stop losing 1st games of the year and specifically stop losing to PSU, WI and MN. All that plus 3 other QBs had better opening day QBr's than AOC. If that doesn't get corrected soon, WI and MN will still be thorns in Purdue and Brohm's side.

It may sound harsh, but they are not being asked to do more than the fundamentals of football. Do your job and the game takes care of itself. Trying to do more than they were capable of (big hits, and extra yardage) cost Purdue dearly in big plays. Finally, coach do your job! Be responsible to say that lack of running the ball is on you and you need to commit better at doing that.

Signed,
Frustrated from in the stands. MilwaukeeBoilerFan

As an outside fan watching that game a few things stuck out to me:

Purdue looked like the better team but at some point has to find the running game. KD looked good at times, but then he just kind of fades away.

For as fiery as Brohm is, he seems to take his foot off the accelerator. When he keeps that killer instinct, he is able to bury teams.

Your LB'ers, especially #43 are slow. Penn St. should have kept working their crossing routes because 43 just isn't able to cover any ground. Your D Coordinator is going to have to adjust for that.

These early season conference games suck. I'd rather the Big 10 not have them happen until later on.

 

[PaBoiler78]

As an outside fan watching that game a few things stuck out to me:

Purdue looked like the better team but at some point has to find the running game. KD looked good at times, but then he just kind of fades away.

For as fiery as Brohm is, he seems to take his foot off the accelerator. When he keeps that killer instinct, he is able to bury teams.

Your LB'ers, especially #43 are slow. Penn St. should have kept working their crossing routes because 43 just isn't able to cover any ground. Your D Coordinator is going to have to adjust for that.

These early season conference games suck. I'd rather the Big 10 not have them happen until later on.

our LB's are always underwhelming. you forgot to mention #42 too. Don't know if King faded, he didn't get the ball, foot off the accelerator? he was being too aggressive w/ all the passes at the end.

 

[arcb102000]

To step up in the B1G west and the B1G in general, Purdue needs to win some statement games. OSU (the Tyler game) was that kind of game. So was beating MSU and Iowa last year. But there has to be more of that if Purdue is going to gain national notice. National notice gets you better recruits, better bowl games, more student applications, etc. At this time, Purdue is not where it needs to be. And the lack of success early, which has been kind of consistent under Brohm, hinders that. It is critical this year to build upon last year, and the loss to PSU hurts the ability to do that.

 

[FirstDownB]

As an outside fan watching that game a few things stuck out to me:

Purdue looked like the better team but at some point has to find the running game. KD looked good at times, but then he just kind of fades away.

For as fiery as Brohm is, he seems to take his foot off the accelerator. When he keeps that killer instinct, he is able to bury teams.

Your LB'ers, especially #43 are slow. Penn St. should have kept working their crossing routes because 43 just isn't able to cover any ground. Your D Coordinator is going to have to adjust for that.

These early season conference games suck. I'd rather the Big 10 not have them happen until later on.

The linebacker room, outside of Jalen Graham, is poor by any Big Ten standards. It is the one positional group where Brohm has struggled to build up the talent base. I expect to see a lot of Nickel this year against teams that aren't built like Wisconsin or Iowa.