I'm wondering if both Heide and Colvin end up starting by the time the Big Ten season rolls around. Their athleticism is desperately needed(especially on defense). Where does Berg fit now? Will he take minutes at either/both the 4/5 spot off the bench?
How much changes with Colvin, Heide and Berg in the mix this year?
- Thread starter Boilerbrad19
- Start date
Heide and Colvin will see significant PT. Both may end up starting before the year is over, Colvin especially.
Berg may see spot time here and there but his main job this year will be hauling Edeys money to the bank.
Berg probably doesn't play much - I don't believe he will even be ready to play for the Europe trip in August. Highly unlikely he gets much PT next season, IMO
I'm thinking Berg gets mins this year similar to Waddell's mins last year.
I think Jones as a quick and strong defender that can guard the Terrance Shannon's of college basketball and give Smith a break at the 1 will make a nice impact.
You have to like Colvin's pedigree as an athletic 3 level scoring wing, if the defense clicks and he plays within himself he hopefully nudges Morton out of some minutes as the year progresses, maybe even a starter? He's the type of player Purdue was missing last year.
Heide is wildcard, but his offer list of Texas, Arizona, Ohio State, Creighton, Marquette, etc stacks up with anyone on the team. I think the national people are sleeping on what he could bring to the 3 and 4.
I don't expect much from Berg.
You have to like Colvin's pedigree as an athletic 3 level scoring wing, if the defense clicks and he plays within himself he hopefully nudges Morton out of some minutes as the year progresses, maybe even a starter? He's the type of player Purdue was missing last year.
Heide is wildcard, but his offer list of Texas, Arizona, Ohio State, Creighton, Marquette, etc stacks up with anyone on the team. I think the national people are sleeping on what he could bring to the 3 and 4.
I don't expect much from Berg.
At least early on he won’t, by Big Ten time it’s very possible. I put a minutes breakdown up, see what you think if you’re inclined. I’m laid up in bed with kidney stones, real bored lol
I’m expecting big things from Heide, I think everyone is sleeping on his talent level. Wondering if Colvin can spend time at the 2 so we could see both he and Heide at the same time?
A few of us have been echoing that sentiment. Yes - sleep on Mr. Heide at your peril. Also, it will take a little while, but I like the defensive potential with him and Colvin......may give Painter more flexibility on the wing than he's had in a long while.
We shall see.
The concern raised when Heide was being recruited was lateral quickness. It appears to me that he has all the tools offensively, but needs to prove that he can guard. That said, he’s had time in the program to focus on that area so it will be interesting to see. I like his chances as a player who can shoot and attack the rim.
Colvin might have the biggest upside of all, but he also might have the biggest adjustment. I think he could eventually be a great college player, but I think it’s going to take some time to get there.
I'm high on Colvin but inst he 17? I think we may need to temper expectations for early in the year. I think Heide sees more minutes than him early in the season. I wouldnt mind seeing a small ball lineup of Braden, Fletcher, Heide, Colvin, Furst. That would be fun to watch on the break. Jaden's Purdue team was at its best when Caleb was running the break with him in transition. Hopefully we can get some up tempo minutes with Furst at Center
hopefully Heide shows on the court that he deserves more minutes than Morton.
pretty sure he doesn't.
Why do you think he does?
Agreed. Making your 7’-4” 300 lb NPOY chase a 6’-6” 200 lb guy around the 3 point line seems suboptimal to me.
Sure, but that’s why you have to make FDU pay on the other end. The defense did its job. The game was lost because of turnovers and poor shooting.
I have been critical of CMP being stuck in his ways. But to his credit, after the NCAA debacle he said some things need to change. I'm hoping he meant that.
Maybe Berg will play a few minutes at the 5 allowing Furst and Renn to play more minutes at the 4. I don’t expect much from him this year. He might become a Haarms type of player in a few years. He just doesn’t seem like that big inside force that Edey is and Tre and Biggie were. I liken him to a poor man’s version of Holgrem - essentially a tall perimeter player.
Holgrem is a unique talent: almost a freakishly long guard. I would not expect Berg to be able to do the same kind of things.
Berg is also a unique talent. I read he has excellent ball handling skills and was an awesome outside shooter! I didn’t say Berg was a top 5 NBA prospect. I don’t expect Berg to be a star. But, It would be nice if he could be as good as Haarms.
Wisconsin had several big guys under Bo who could really shoot threes and allowed Wisconsin to attack inside with its guards. I could see Berg providing the same kind of versatility for Painter.
If true, and not based on injuries.... we turned a corner & are headed to FF, perhaps more. Because who they replaced, are pretty good.
The starting 3 and 4 position should be wide open with a good chunk of open minutes at the back up 1 and 2 so the door should be wide open for Colvin and Heide. Those two are the definition of “athletes” and everyone knows Purdue definitely needs more of that on the floor so if they can handle the ball and make good decisions while playing solid defense they should earn minutes right away. Colvin is probably a 2 before a 3 but either way I see him playing a lot minutes because the kid is very talented! Heide’s skill and build drips potential but he’ll have to earn his minutes with upperclassmen a head of him so it’ll be interesting to see where he fits in at the start of the season. I know he was a pretty good recruit before hurting his foot in high school so I’m excited to see what he can bring to the team. Obviously the 5 is locked with Edey now but I’d like to see TKR get more minutes somehow to take the load off. Hopefully Edey, TKR and Furst have all improved their outside game to where the ball doesn’t always have to be pounded inside when they are in the game! Edey dominated down low most nights so it was easy to fall in love with what worked all season long but when shots weren’t falling and refs weren’t calling the obvious the team really struggled to score and it showed in the tournament. So that being said Painter needs to accept the fact and change it up. Going back the players I don’t know where Berg fits in this year. His workout videos looked promising especially with his jumpshot and mobility but he must stay healthy to give himself a chance in the future. Practicing against the best big man in the country doesn’t hurt though.
For the rest of the team…Smith and Loyer can be penciled in at the 1 & 2 unless Lance Jones goes off and earns a spot. Jones probably plays the 1 before the 2 but I can see him getting minutes at both spots with his defensive ability. I like Morton when it comes to his defense and being a team player but he ABSOLUTELY has to improve this ball handling and shot making ability or his minutes are going to take a tumble. We all know what Gillis is capable of doing when his shot is falling, just wish he was a little taller to help himself down low. His hard play definitely doesn’t go unnoticed so he’s a potential starter with Furst and TKR at the 4. Those three will have wild card minutes again with Edey around so it’s a toss up who starts at the 4 but either way hopefully they can all make huge strides with their games inside and out because the ability is there just have to show it consistently. Not sure where Waddell fits in right now other than he’s got a long lengthy body that could help with plug in minutes. Painter always says players figure out who starts not him so hopefully those players can figure out how to shoot better this year!!
For the rest of the team…Smith and Loyer can be penciled in at the 1 & 2 unless Lance Jones goes off and earns a spot. Jones probably plays the 1 before the 2 but I can see him getting minutes at both spots with his defensive ability. I like Morton when it comes to his defense and being a team player but he ABSOLUTELY has to improve this ball handling and shot making ability or his minutes are going to take a tumble. We all know what Gillis is capable of doing when his shot is falling, just wish he was a little taller to help himself down low. His hard play definitely doesn’t go unnoticed so he’s a potential starter with Furst and TKR at the 4. Those three will have wild card minutes again with Edey around so it’s a toss up who starts at the 4 but either way hopefully they can all make huge strides with their games inside and out because the ability is there just have to show it consistently. Not sure where Waddell fits in right now other than he’s got a long lengthy body that could help with plug in minutes. Painter always says players figure out who starts not him so hopefully those players can figure out how to shoot better this year!!
Last edited:
I don’t see Waddell contributing very much other than being a solid role player. There is just too much talent and depth on this team. And there are too many outstanding prospects being recruited that should also play ahead of him when they arrive. Ask yourself do you see Waddell taking minutes from Colvin or Heide?
If you look at the games last year, we lost because we went through a scoring droughts. We would fail to score on consecutive possessions, and were held well below our average. To me that points to offensive failures. We could usually hold our opponent below their average. Of course, I will concede that had we better defense, maybe we do better in those situations.
I'd be shocked to see Heide and Colvin, combined, getting more minutes than Morton. Painter talked a big game after the FDU loss about getting more athletic. But he'll go right back to his comfort zone this fall.
The fact that all we got out of the portal was Lance Jones tells you everything you need to know...
And Purdue would have been better starting Aaron Wheeler over Grady Eifert. Solid role players can be exactly what you want for some lineups.
Rather than solid role players, what is needed is players knowing what their role actually is and accepting it and excelling at it. I look at two players from our past: Brian Cardinal and Eugene Parker.
Cardinal was a scrappy floor burner. He excelled at being a scrappy floor burner. He didn’t try to be something he wasn’t. He was a scrappy floor burner in the NBA. He made a living excelling at his role.
Eugene Parker was a pg who loved to shoot three point shots rather than distributing the ball. He loved throwing up shots from 30-40 feet rather than throwing up alley oop passes or passing the ball to Macy who was a better shooter. Parker really never really excelled at being a point guard or shooting guard. He had a lot of ability. But never really identified with what role he was supposed to play.
As I look at our current team and the last few years, we have had a lot of talented players, but they never seemed to know or accept what their role was and therefore never excelled in it. What was Wheeler’s role? To be an in the paint power forward and get rebounds? Or to be a tall perimeter player? what was HaarM’s role?
Looking at our current team, what is Furst, Renn, Jones, Gillis, Morton’s role? are Furst and Renn supposed to be a 5 and gather rebounds? Is Gillis really supposed to be a 4? Is Jones or Morgan a pg and distributor?
We seem to have a lot of talent but very few players seem to have defined roles and they are not excelling trying to learn to play multiple positions.
As we look to the future, do Heidi and Colvin, Berg or any of our recruits have defined roles, or do we just put them somewhere and hope they succeed?
What was Carsen Edwards role? To distribute? To handle the ball? To shoot the three? To drive to the basket and score? He did all of those things but never excelled at one area. When he turned pro, much like Eugene Parker he failed. On the other hand, Sichting knew what his role was and exceeded and found success as did Macy and Reggie Miller.
Reggie Miller is probably the best example of knowing a role and excelling at it. He shot the ball and didn’t try to be something he’s not. ray Allen succeeded when he stopped trying to be both a shooting guard and point guard and concentrated on being a shooting guard!
Shaq and Wilt knew their roles. Giannis doesn’t. Giannis doesn’t need to be chucking threes!
Eugene Parker played in the 70's. There was no 3 point shot. He averaged 4 assists per game at PU. He passed the ball plenty.
Tell that to Parker! His shots were always from 25-30 feet away! Prior to his arrival at Purdue, Parkinson was averaging 8 assists!
Maybe you should tell Eugene that. his shots were only worth 2 points, but that didn't stop him from firing away his 25-35 foot bombs. Parkinson averaged 6,6 and 7.5 assists before Parker arrived. One would expect with the talent Purdue had at the time, Parker could have done the same. but that's where the problem was. who was the PG for Purdue? Sichting or Parker. Macy decided there were too many guards taking his shots, so he left. that team grossly underachieved. And I believe it's because the players didn't realize what their true roles were.
facts? you want facts? how did Purdue do with parker and company? how did they do after that class left? Final 4 baby ! How many assists did parkinson have before parker and company arrived? it was 6 , 6, and 7.5 assists per game before Parker took over. why did Macy leave? You had a bunch of ball hogs who all thought they would be NBA stars. there was no synergy.
Last edited:
I thought i did explain. Every team needs role players, but more importantly, players need to know what their roles are to actually succeed. Edey's role is NOT to be a perimeter 3 point shooter. he needs to concentrate on what he does best. We don't need a role player at guard. what we need is smith and Loyer to learn what their roles actually are. Loyer needs to become a catch and shoot guard. Smith needs to be the floor general and run the show rather than having painter run it for him. Renn is desperately looking to find a role and his place on this team. he didn't come to purdue to be a back-up center. and when Edey leaves, I highly doubt will be our starting center. the same is true with Furst and Gillis and morton. they need to have a defined role and concentrate on doing that role rather than having 3-5 different roles and doing none of them well. Jones is coming to us from SIU . at SIU he was a shooting guard who was also known for his defense. He was NOT their PG. So what will his role be at Purdue? Will he backup Smith at PG? or Loyer or both? Last year we added a transfer guard who was known as a SG and tried to make him a PG. it failed. Purdue has a very long history of recruiting athletes and then hoping they can transform them into playing either multiple positions or different positions than they were previously playing. it's like telling a CB you are now a safety or a 4 star QB, you are now a TE. The Bucks tried Giannis as their PG one year. That plan didn't work, so they acquired Holiday. they tried Giannis at center, that didn't work either, so they acquired Lopez. Purdue has similar issues. They have a lot of talented players. But they need to refine their roles rather than just hoping they have the talent to adjust. Role players are great. but knowing what your role is produces results. when you have 2 seconds left, who do you want taking that 3 point shot? Furst or Gillis? I hope not.
Yes! It's like a narrative gets created and never mind the facts. FDU only scored 63 points and shat 39% from the field. If Purdue could have hit wide open 3 point shots they would have easily won. FDU was playing 2 or 3 guys on Edey leaving guys wide open. Guys started missing and even worse started passing up wide open shots. And yes our PG had 7 turnovers.
Edey was 7 for 11. The rest of the team shot 28.5%. Just awful.
Being a member of this board for several years, I'm convinced the most underappreciated skill by Purdue fans is a players ability to shoot.
I don't care if its Morton, Colvin, Heide, Loyer, Waddell or Jones. We just need guys willing to take (i'm talking to you Morton and Waddell) and make shots at the 2 and 3.
I don't care if its Morton, Colvin, Heide, Loyer, Waddell or Jones. We just need guys willing to take (i'm talking to you Morton and Waddell) and make shots at the 2 and 3.
Here we go with role player......Grady........ Grady shot 44% from 3! I'm not sure Grady would have gotten the minutes he did if he shot less than 30% from beyond the ark.
To be effective guys like Morton and Waddell need to be efficient in their scoring and at least be able to keep the defenders honest.
Grady could do that.
