Example.... when you have you multi quote together. in the reply field at the bottom you just click insert quote.
How many games needed to lose to switch QB's this yr?
- Thread starter Foolmeoncefan
- Start date
We get that there are those on this board that pride themselves on being 'realistic' but the fact is that you and some others consistently bring the same thoughts, ideas, and negative attitude toward every single post it seems when talking about the program or Coach Hazel. I am guilty of being negative and a little far out there at times, but I don't simply continue to post the same thing with different words at any chance I get to run a coach, player, or program through the mud.
Now, on to your actual post:
I don't believe that Hazel tried to come in and make Purdue in to MSU. Look at the defense they believed they had and the QB situation. Were you really going to throw a QB who clearly couldn't throw the ball effectively AND coming off a pretty significant knee injury to throw the ball 30+ times a game? Or would you like to try and hang your hat on ball control with two incredibly talented backs and a defense that should have been able to stop people. The plan didn't work and they attempted to correct the issues mid season with a true freshman QB and a change in offensive and defensive schemes. What more could you have asked from a staff at that point? Had they stayed with Henry and went 1-11, fans would have been clamoring that he was an idiot for not making a switch in players and schemes. I understand the frustration at a terrible season (hell, I was on the field and a part of the program at the time in a capacity that season) but to blindly drag coaches through the mud when is was glaringly obvious of the deficiencies that had been in the program after the Cinncy game is tiresome at this point.
The problem with some of your logic is that Hazel isn't a 'hedge fund manager' and he isn't responsible for other people's money. You also make some pretty outlandish remarks that challenge a man's character when those that truly know him and from all aspects I have gotten from him are that he is an upstanding man with high morals and values.
Answer a few questions for me and probably others:
1. Have you ever met Coach Hazel? If you have, did you speak about anything other than football?
2. Have you ever spent time building any type of sports program or anything else from the ground up or from recent failure?
3. Do you want some one to congratulate you for being 'right' about the 4-20 after last season? Do you need some people here to say you were right to let you get over the rough two season all Boiler fans have been through? Well, if it helps....you were right and many of us were wrong last year. However, it still doesn't change that your pessimistic (sorry, realistic) attitude is getting old.
I can respect dissenting opinions as much as any one here but when that is all you talk about and offer nothing more than name calling and dragging people through the mud with what many perceive as little to no credible evidence, you wonder why nobody here really takes you serious.
Also, I say 8 games before a change is made if the team is borderline bowl eligible and the staff can pinpoint one or two losses on the QB alone. If the losses are due to poor special teams, poor defense, or fumbles by RB's/WR's, then a change at QB does nothing to help the issues that arise. If the QB is a direct result of multiple losses next year and the last 4 games could result in a bowl opportunity, you make the switch knowing that if the backup isn't cutting it early on, you make the switch back to the original starter and hope that the benching has lit a fire in his belly.
Last edited:
"realist" is usually what people call themselves to justify their pessimism. The best thing about these boards is that now everything is archived forever, so we really will be able to call people out on their BS years from now. This isn't in relation to anyone in this thread, just a general thought that's going to be fun when people meltdown after the first loss and call the season over in basketball or football.
The least they could have done is let Henry run the spread they let Etling run. Hes the only QB that hasnt run the read option under Hazell and the only one that would have excelled at it. We had two good backs for sure, but they were worthless up the middle into a stacked box.
A lot of people on here called out how bad a strategy that was before it happened. I actually thought it might work.
I can really get behind some of these thoughtful posts. It was worst than I thought the first Hazell year. I think though that the coaches have worked hard to make changes, most of the players seem to be on board (they sure should be by now). I think things will get better. They are grinding it out.
It's just my personal opinion, and means nothing in the scheme of things because it's just that. But I think the face that we haven't had a lot of coaching turnover through these past few horrible years, in my mind says a lot about the plan this staff has in place and are trying to execute. They have all bought in and see genuine progress and believe in Hazell and others. Otherwise they'd be jumping ship left and right. I know we've lost a couple I believe, and you may say that they wouldn't be able to get hired anywhere else but I just don't think that's true. I think they have a plan and are working toward executing it. I still feel they had to tear it all the way down to build it back up because there was to much complacency with mediocrity. Unfortunately that tear down went harder than I thought and they now have to build back up in a hurry or worry about complacency with defeat.
Respectfully, why did they have to tear it down? Please dont use an analogy.
In short, I think if they let Henry run the offense they let Applebe run while building OL and LB depth and experience the way they want it. Hopes speed roster would have been more effective leading to less problems with buying in(totally agree some were unavoidable), better recruiting, , better player development, more fans. Then you sprinkle in elements of what you want to become.
I think they thought they could come in, draw a line in the sand, and turn the program on a dime and stay around 500.
In short, I think if they let Henry run the offense they let Applebe run while building OL and LB depth and experience the way they want it. Hopes speed roster would have been more effective leading to less problems with buying in(totally agree some were unavoidable), better recruiting, , better player development, more fans. Then you sprinkle in elements of what you want to become.
I think they thought they could come in, draw a line in the sand, and turn the program on a dime and stay around 500.
They had to tear it down because the program was broken to the base of its culture. Winning became happy to get 6 wins and a bowl. We had about a decade of mediocrity and even our best year with Tiller we lucked into a rose bowl loss by tying and being the biggest loser. Think about that. We only went to the rose bowl because it had been the longest for us out of the 3 way tie if I remember correctly.
See this is where I struggle. I don't know what this means other than it sounds like a compelling description of being broken. Thanks for not using an analogy. I don't think the players were content with 6 wins at all. I do think the previous staff failed to instill a proper work ethic around the program, and is my best guess for why we could compete so well against some good teams and get rocked by teams not as good. That is just an inference.
And even then I don't understand why this means Hazell had to make a series of really unsuccessful personnel/scheme decisions. I really struggle with the decision to run Hunt and Mostert up the middle among other things. And when they finally started using boundary plays, switch qbs, or do whatever seems obvious to most on here; it generally works.
BTW, we went to the rose bowl because we won all the tie breakers. Had Iowa not upset Northwestern, they would have gone.
I'm not saying youre wrong/Hazell cant succeed. I am saying I have no idea how one doesn't attribute Hazells mistakes to him because he is 'building'. He may very well be building but is more in his own way than anyone else.
why can't it be both? There is no blueprint for the perfect rebuild lots of mistakes can and probably have been made. The personnel stuff I can only attribute to them asking very specific things from kids and not getting everything they want. Some of it has to be misevaluation of talent but I have to believe that some of what we perceived as that has a lot more to do with behind the scenes stiff we don't see. You are always going to get that in staff changes. Same thing happened with Hope.
With the coaching turnover, I am not confident in the people he has surrounded himself with... yet.
Both coordinators he had never worked with before- an advantage Tiller I think had when he came from Wyoming. I want to say he brought like 9 or 10 of 12 assistants with him. Everyone was on the same page. Hazell did not bring his Kent staff with him but just a few guys. The OC hire looks like a dud. I am a pessimist because I saw how he ran the Chicago Bears 14 years ago. Shoop was not in football when Hazell hired him. Had DH not hired him, I doubt he would be in football. Hudson had no coordinator experience when he was brought in. The rest of the staff, I would say Marcus Freeman is positioning himself to be a position coach at a Top 10 program. He will have opportunities beyond Purdue. Good energy and seems like a good recruiter. I think Parker is a good assistant. Jim Bridge has a good pedigree. This new TE coach seems almost overqualified to be a TE coach. The rest of the staff, I am not sure.
I am not a pessimist, but I am not optimistic about the 2015 season. I think the schedule does us no favors which we cannot control. I have become skeptical of the head coach because his body of work, (4 seasons as a HC?) has net 1 winning season. Was that season luck, did the previous regime bring in some good players? As concerning is how Kent has performed after he left. Did he leave the cupboard bare? If Morgan was 100% insistent on prior head coaching experience, I wish it would be 4-5 years of HC experience. I want to see a few years of recruiting.
It could be both, and certainly there is an impact from the initial coaching turnover.
I think good coaches win and bad coaches lose. Haz has come in and greatly lowered the bar, it would be rare for him to even get it back to where it was (500 and looking to take the next step). I don’t care if hes a nice/high character guy and I dont have anything against him. Im trying to find an indication he can coach a football team.
I would love to be able to attribute anything from the last two to building. I just dont see it, and the only logic Ive heard in two years are largely architectural analogies about how the program was broken and how 'I dont need to see it, its coming anyway'. Not singling you out, youre just a good poster so I jumped at the chance to get an explanation that centered on the team and not disdain for Hope, Burke, or all this ancillary stuff that still doesn’t explain why the qbs cant read the field or why they keep misusing players.
I think good coaches win and bad coaches lose. Haz has come in and greatly lowered the bar, it would be rare for him to even get it back to where it was (500 and looking to take the next step). I don’t care if hes a nice/high character guy and I dont have anything against him. Im trying to find an indication he can coach a football team.
I would love to be able to attribute anything from the last two to building. I just dont see it, and the only logic Ive heard in two years are largely architectural analogies about how the program was broken and how 'I dont need to see it, its coming anyway'. Not singling you out, youre just a good poster so I jumped at the chance to get an explanation that centered on the team and not disdain for Hope, Burke, or all this ancillary stuff that still doesn’t explain why the qbs cant read the field or why they keep misusing players.
No we went because we were in a 3 way tie and beat the teams we were tied with head to head.
First tie breaker was conference record. All equal at 6-2.
2nd tie breaker (at the time, IIRC) was overall record. All equal at 8-3
3rd tie breaker was head to head record among the teams tied. Purdue 2-0 (beat both NU and UM), UM 0-2, NU 1-1.
If Iowa (a poor Iowa team at that) hadn't beaten Northwestern we would've been second that year and Northwestern would have been in the Rose Bowl.
Huson was DC at Minnesota in 2002-2004 and DC at East Carolina from 2005-2009.
Now you are right about Shoop, he is worthless.
From my current view point,and I have carefully watched the hire and start up the Hazell era. Without rehashing the stats I see improvement with lots of improvement left to go. This is a tough rebuild. I was actually surprised how weak the roster was his first year. I thought some that could have helped win games weren't ready to contribute year 1 (for whatever reason). The team wore out and broke down the last 4 games or so last year (lack of quality BIG depth). I think the team is not complete but closer than it has been. I think the freefall may have stabilized and there is a good chance for 6 wins and a bowl this year. The quarterbacks are starting to get there. If not forced to play too young when they weren't yet ready DE and EE would be about ready to play now. But they had to play before they were ready (there were no other options). Now you just try to coach what you have and get each player better. I think Hazell not only should get to work his entire contract but I also believe he will need a contract extension to finish the job he started. (now I am sure that will get some to respond) but I believe we will see that he has earned it. I think the coaching staff is capable, reassignment and bringing in Malone is a big upgrade to the staff. Even though I am not a big fan, the OC is ok, I am not perceiving that the X and O thing is that far off. Sounds like the varied temp thing and simpler communication are a good response and will help. I like stability in a coaching staff and I believe the Boilers can continue to climb in the BIG and become consistently at least OK or OK+. Purdue can't get there if they churn the program every few years
THIS! Also, have you thought that maybe the OL and the personnel that was in place simply couldn't run the read option? The read option takes athletic OL to work down the lines and CLEARLY Purdue had a lack of good offensive lineman at that time.
Johnny, exactly what are you seconding? The part where the program was 'broken to the base of its culture' or the untrue part about why we went to the Rose Bowl?
Generally agree as far as Rose Bowl teams go, Purdue's was a rocky type of team that had to take a few shots to the face, but who cares?
Why wouldnt the offensive line be ready to execute the read option? Henry, Hunt, and Mostert clearly were more suited to that, and its what they ran the year before. At least read option takes a guy out of the play and gives some misdirection to make things a little easier for the line.
I am enjoying the back and forth also.
Generally agree as far as Rose Bowl teams go, Purdue's was a rocky type of team that had to take a few shots to the face, but who cares?
Why wouldnt the offensive line be ready to execute the read option? Henry, Hunt, and Mostert clearly were more suited to that, and its what they ran the year before. At least read option takes a guy out of the play and gives some misdirection to make things a little easier for the line.
I am enjoying the back and forth also.
That first year was just a mess. I was glad that the season painfully came to an end. Last year want horrible, the second half had good match ups, but we wore out. Coach is getting his kind of players on the field now and it will be good to see where we end up this season.
It seems to me they tuned out more than wore out last season. Already seen a couple articles about players not giving it their all last year, and when guys stacked the box against us and started playing the gaps more soundly we had no where to go strategically. Although, they were missing key pieces defensively.
My mistake on that. I forgot about ECU and Minnesota with Hudson. I was focusing on the 3 years at FSU.
I am seconding the fact that the program was just generally broken to its core. I am over the blame Hope rants but the fact is that he ran a loose ship that would have only peaked at 6 wins a year at best. He also benefited greatly from some bad years of Big Ten football to get there. I find it hard to imagine that Hope would have done any better with the schedules turned out to be pretty difficult.
I tend to agree that Henry was more suited to running the read option and he should have been either moved to safety/WR at the start of the or had some type of offense geared around him...BUT the fact is that it wasn't done for some reason that those of us who aren't as privy to the nuances of the game simple aren't seeing. I am chalking it up to very poor offensive lineman and WR's who couldn't seem to execute blocking schemes well enough to do so.
I also see the improvement in the program. There are better players being infused into the program who are high character and high effort guys. You can see that with Yancey saying he has bought in with a few fellow WR's who work really hard in the off season and in the video room. The QB's have clearly improved but I'm not so sure that Shoop is doing all he can with the talent level he has at his disposal. I would say that to fully get a grip on Shoop's ability until his QB's take over the reigns (Blough or Sindelar).
Agree that Hope seemed to let the players largely police themselves. Part of me wonders about how much to trust inferences like that fans hear from coaches or the press. When Hope took over for Tiller there was a lot made about getting players more invested in the program, setting clear boundaries about whats acceptable, and kicking some guys off. I can remember the same talk about Tiller taking over for Colleto. So its hard for me to make a lot of it now.
Baggs, I can agree we see improvement if we put that many conditions on it. Personally, I think 2013 is what you get when the coach disenfranchises the players and has a bad system to boot. I mean if you think back to the start of 2013, they couldnt even get the right 11 guys in the huddle. I think 2014 is basically what we will see going forward.
I could be wrong. Theres just so much wrong to feel like real growth.
Baggs, I can agree we see improvement if we put that many conditions on it. Personally, I think 2013 is what you get when the coach disenfranchises the players and has a bad system to boot. I mean if you think back to the start of 2013, they couldnt even get the right 11 guys in the huddle. I think 2014 is basically what we will see going forward.
I could be wrong. Theres just so much wrong to feel like real growth.
I agree with you.Walk toward the light.I always say,if you cant at least hope for better days ahead,how can you be a fan?
I think some areas have improved for sure... Offensive Line, Linebacker come to mind. Running backs we will see as we lost two pretty talented guys. Being honest, I do not see much improvement from the WR (in games only). I think our secondary may take a step back this year. All in all I think the DL has remained stagnant.
The biggest lack of improvement is QBs. To me it looks like the QB, no matter who it is, does not improve. I mean Danny Etling threw for 300? some yards in the Bucket game in 2013. Thought he turned a corner. Then in 2014 he was making the SAME MISTAKES. So there has been some improvement, just not much improvement. Instead of losing 11 and getting beat by 40, we will lose 8 and get beat by 17.
I also appreciate where youre coming from, Im just not like that. In the stands, passionate, screaming, idiot that constantly embarasses his wife.
Outside of the stadium its about predicting what will happen.
Believe me, when they turn the corner this year or 15 years from now, I'll be there and ready. If the worst I have to deal with is people on here making me eat crow or outraged we arent 2 wins better than whatever they are, its all gravy at that point.
Outside of the stadium its about predicting what will happen.
Believe me, when they turn the corner this year or 15 years from now, I'll be there and ready. If the worst I have to deal with is people on here making me eat crow or outraged we arent 2 wins better than whatever they are, its all gravy at that point.
I think Blough is the most exciting. And if I am going to make the 3 hour round trip and 4 hours in the stands, I want to see something exciting. I don't go to a theatre to watch a documentary. Robert Mavre was probably the most exciting QB Purdue has used since Painter. I think had Curtis remained healthy he would have had a more illustrious Purdue career. Joey Elliott was average. Ter Bush. Rob Henry. Appelby, Etling, etc... eek. Blough would probably cause me to drive down for more than a game or two. Then again he is in that bozo offense with no identity. Or the identity of a power run team that is neither power nor running.
Similar threads
