Guards just weren't good enough

[SCBoiler1]

If you go back and look at the back and forth on this forum in late summer of last year, most of it evolved around our guard play. Some believed we were desperate for back court help and others thought we were fine with what we had. In the first half of the season it looks like our guard play was going to be good enough but I don't know how anyone watching yesterday's game can't understand why we lost, our guard play is awful.

Our guards shot 37% overall and 32% from 3 this year. For those not into stats that is awful. Smith shot 37.6% form 3 and led the team. Gillis and Jenkins were the only other guys to shoot better than 35%.

This was Purdue's worst shooting 3 point shooting team since 2012-2013. This year we shot 32.2%, in 2012-2013 we shot 32.0%. For reference Purdue has had a couple of teams shoot 40% from three in the interim.

 

[RFSNES]

The nails in our coffin, outside shooting and quickness. Except for Jenkins, no one can play off the dribble...we are so robotic.

 

[Dryfly88]

Put Pack on this team and it changes everything. Smith isn't playing 30+ minutes as a freshman, gives you a reliable 3 pt shooter and a guy not afraid to take a shot. He shot 40% from 3 this season.

Looking forward now, we need to get a guard like that in the portal. Smith is going to be a good player for PU for the next 3 years. But we need more. Assuming Edey leaves (I'm in the he is gone camp) we will be able to speed up our play but we need guards to do that. I hope we don't stay pat in the backcourt and think that Smith and Loyer are all we need.

 

[steakman765]

Smith and Loyer look like they should be playing against Terhune and Oolitic.

 

[Boiler Buck]

If you go back and look at the back and forth on this forum in late summer of last year, most of it evolved around our guard play. Some believed we were desperate for back court help and others thought we were fine with what we had. In the first half of the season it looks like our guard play was going to be good enough but I don't know how anyone watching yesterday's game can't understand why we lost, our guard play is awful.

Our guards shot 37% overall and 32% from 3 this year. For those not into stats that is awful. Smith shot 37.6% form 3 and led the team. Gillis and Jenkins were the only other guys to shoot better than 35%.

This was Purdue's worst shooting 3 point shooting team since 2012-2013. This year we shot 32.2%, in 2012-2013 we shot 32.0%. For reference Purdue has had a couple of teams shoot 40% from three in the interim.

Yep. NCAA is a guards game.

Hopefully, 3 things ..
1. We have room for a transfer & can land another productive one.
2. Colvin uses his athleticism as an All B10 frosh and is able to give us a spark when in the game at the 2 & 3.
3. Strength training makes the 2 sophomore guards more competitive where they can produce and not regress against athletic or experienced guards.

 

[SCBoiler1]

I really hope we clean house in the backcourt. Smith is good player. He needs to become more consistent. I think he will. I could go either way on Loyer. He can play but is he "the guy" at the 2 the next three years?

I've seen enough of Morton, Newman and Waddell to know they aren't the answer and with Jenkins leaving we're going to need some help. I had hoped Heide might be solid but to me the redshirt a warning sign. Someone posted Colvin is only averaging 19 points a game on a bad team? Rated 98th which is pretty good but doesn't sound like the answer, at least his freshman year.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Cant have immobile big men and decide to never play a zone. Painters best two years 09-10 and 18-19 we had big men that could guard and move. A zone needs to happen with guys like Edey, Haas, Berg etc. Also need more athletes. Morton cannot be viewed as a lockdown defender. He had 3-4 buckets on him in the first ten minutes against an essentially D2 school. Smith and Loyer will develop but we need athletes around them 1-3. Heide and Colvin should help but I dont expect anything different to happen in March with no zones if Berg or Edey is the big. Also need more ball handlers. Purdue has never that I can remember had two quality true PGs on the roster at the same time.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

I really hope we clean house in the backcourt. Smith is good player. He needs to become more consistent. I think he will. I could go either way on Loyer. He can play but is he "the guy" at the 2 the next three years?

I've seen enough of Morton, Newman and Waddell to know they aren't the answer and with Jenkins leaving we're going to need some help. I had hoped Heide might be solid but to me the redshirt a warning sign. Someone posted Colvin is only averaging 19 points a game on a bad team? Rated 98th which is pretty good but doesn't sound like the answer, at least his freshman year.

Youre asinine to say clean house. Smith and Loyer will be great players. The other three are not difference makers though. We need athletes and Colvin and Heide should help. Reminder that there is no shot clock in Indiana HS basketball. Xavier Booker averaged 12 his junior year. Hit the portal for an actual backup PG as well.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Youre asinine to say clean house. Smith and Loyer will be great players. The other three are not difference makers though. We need athletes and Colvin and Heide should help. Reminder that there is no shot clock in Indiana HS basketball. Xavier Booker averaged 12 his junior year. Hit the portal for an actual backup PG as well.

First of all, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't want to get rid of Smith and Loyer. I do think we need to move on from guys like Morton, Waddell and Newman, So I'm not sure were we're that much different.

I have my doubts about Heide. If he wasn't good enough to help this years team why would you believe he'd be the answer next year? I won't buy into the Colvin hype until I see him play, but if guys like Morton, Newman and Heide are still getting minutes how much of an impact is Colvin going to have?

 

[BoilerFan#35]

First of all, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't want to get rid of Smith and Loyer. I do think we need to move on from guys like Morton, Waddell and Newman, So I'm not sure were we're that much different.

I have my doubts about Heide. If he wasn't good enough to help this years team why would you believe he'd be the answer next year? I won't buy into the Colvin hype until I see him play, but if guys like Morton, Newman and Heide are still getting minutes how much of an impact is Colvin going to have?

I believe in Heide. He would of been Purdues best athlete this year and missed his whole senior year. Seems like he can shoot. Theres no way he can be a worse shooter than Morton or a worse ball handler than Newman lol. I know one of Colvin or Heide will have an immediate impact even if everyone returns. Hopefully we see some portal entries honestly.

 

[SCBoiler1]

I believe in Heide. He would of been Purdues best athlete this year and missed his whole senior year. Seems like he can shoot. Theres no way he can be a worse shooter than Morton or a worse ball handler than Newman lol. I know one of Colvin or Heide will have an immediate impact even if everyone returns. Hopefully we see some portal entries honestly.

Heide wasn't injured to start the year. If he's better than Morton, Newman or even Waddell, then why did he redshirt? This was our year to go for it all. If there was even a chance he could have helped he should have not been redshirted.

I don't know if he's better or not, but if he is, Painter should rethink who he redshirts because this years team needed desperate help at the guard position over the last 10 games or so.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Heide wasn't injured to start the year. If he's better than Morton, Newman or even Waddell, then why did he redshirt? This was our year to go for it all. If there was even a chance he could have helped he should have not been redshirted.

I don't know if he's better or not, but if he is, Painter should rethink who he redshirts because this years team needed desperate help at the guard position over the last 10 games or so.

just because you arrived cleared doesnt mean youre conditioned and ready for Big ten action. Painter has an infatuation with Morton and I think the fans will start to boo next year if it continues. As far as "go for it all year" there was no expectations going into it and I'm sure Heide would of played if he knew the record the team would accumulate but to ask the kid to burn a shirt 10-12 games into the season to play 10-15 minutes a night is hard to do.

 

[PaBoiler78]

Put Pack on this team and it changes everything. Smith isn't playing 30+ minutes as a freshman, gives you a reliable 3 pt shooter and a guy not afraid to take a shot. He shot 40% from 3 this season.

Looking forward now, we need to get a guard like that in the portal. Smith is going to be a good player for PU for the next 3 years. But we need more. Assuming Edey leaves (I'm in the he is gone camp) we will be able to speed up our play but we need guards to do that. I hope we don't stay pat in the backcourt and think that Smith and Loyer are all we need.

Pack was a big miss, I think Edey is gone now too because of money

 

[PaBoiler78]

I really hope we clean house in the backcourt. Smith is good player. He needs to become more consistent. I think he will. I could go either way on Loyer. He can play but is he "the guy" at the 2 the next three years?

I've seen enough of Morton, Newman and Waddell to know they aren't the answer and with Jenkins leaving we're going to need some help. I had hoped Heide might be solid but to me the redshirt a warning sign. Someone posted Colvin is only averaging 19 points a game on a bad team? Rated 98th which is pretty good but doesn't sound like the answer, at least his freshman year.

think Newman will be given the talk and Morton should be given it but prolly will not

 

[SCBoiler1]

We were ranked 5th November 28th, and # 1 by the second week of December, From that point forward we should have been all in. If it was apparent that Heide was a significant upgrade over the guys we had playing and Painter chose not to burn his redshirt, then shame on Painter.

I have more faith in Painter and my guess he isn't significantly better than Newman, Morton or Jenkins.

 

[PaBoiler78]

If you go back and look at the back and forth on this forum in late summer of last year, most of it evolved around our guard play. Some believed we were desperate for back court help and others thought we were fine with what we had. In the first half of the season it looks like our guard play was going to be good enough but I don't know how anyone watching yesterday's game can't understand why we lost, our guard play is awful.

Our guards shot 37% overall and 32% from 3 this year. For those not into stats that is awful. Smith shot 37.6% form 3 and led the team. Gillis and Jenkins were the only other guys to shoot better than 35%.

This was Purdue's worst shooting 3 point shooting team since 2012-2013. This year we shot 32.2%, in 2012-2013 we shot 32.0%. For reference Purdue has had a couple of teams shoot 40% from three in the interim.

LaPhonso said it would be the case and alot on here gave him hell

 

[SCBoiler1]

Serious Question.

If Morton or Newman decided to transfer, where would they end up?

Someone might take a flyer on Newman solely based on his RS freshmen year. Kind of like Stephens or Wheeler.

I'm not sure there would be much interest in a guy like Morton. Does anyone really think Morton would become any kind of offensive asset no matter the level of competition? There wasn't a big demand for Eastern's services and he was all B1G defensive team for 2 years. I'm not sure who would be excited to land Morton for one year.

 

[bonefish1]

Serious Question.

If Morton or Newman decided to transfer, where would they end up?

Someone might take a flyer on Newman solely based on his RS freshmen year. Kind of like Stephens or Wheeler.

I'm not sure there would be much interest in a guy like Morton. Does anyone really think Morton would become any kind of offensive asset no matter the level of competition? There wasn't a big demand for Eastern's services and he was all B1G defensive team for 2 years. I'm not sure who would be excited to land Morton for one year.

Morton is maybe MAC level talent. Probably more like D2.
Can’t score, can’t create, decent defense but not very quick. Terrible scholie offer from Painter.

 

[Gman544]

If you go back and look at the back and forth on this forum in late summer of last year, most of it evolved around our guard play. Some believed we were desperate for back court help and others thought we were fine with what we had. In the first half of the season it looks like our guard play was going to be good enough but I don't know how anyone watching yesterday's game can't understand why we lost, our guard play is awful.

Our guards shot 37% overall and 32% from 3 this year. For those not into stats that is awful. Smith shot 37.6% form 3 and led the team. Gillis and Jenkins were the only other guys to shoot better than 35%.

This was Purdue's worst shooting 3 point shooting team since 2012-2013. This year we shot 32.2%, in 2012-2013 we shot 32.0%. For reference Purdue has had a couple of teams shoot 40% from three in the interim.

If we shot 32% from three last night, we win the game, but the choke gene took over. I have said repeatedly we only need to shoot a mediocre 30-35% to win. Too many 20% or less shooting games.

 

[msfboiler3]

Heide wasn't injured to start the year. If he's better than Morton, Newman or even Waddell, then why did he redshirt? This was our year to go for it all. If there was even a chance he could have helped he should have not been redshirted.

I don't know if he's better or not, but if he is, Painter should rethink who he redshirts because this years team needed desperate help at the guard position over the last 10 games or so.

Loyer was a train wreck the last third of the season. Can't defend, weak ball handler, and couldn't shoot. Will he become a great player...I think he can at least be a top half of the league type player but he's got to get stronger. Jenkins should have been playing alot more minutes over loyer and that's on matt. Especially when teams smelled blood in the water and went full court. Bradens going to be fine. I just don't see morton playing the minutes he does Especially when edey is on the floor...kid can't shoot at all. Assuming edey doesn't come back it will be interesting to see what happens. Furst needs to play the 5 but needs to get tougher. If heide can handle the ball he needs to play imo. Matt's enamored with loyer and we will need a stronger ball handler on the court when he's in.

 

[pubill]

Smith and Loyer look like they should be playing against Terhune and Oolitic.

Loyer was not the issue last nite.

 

[PaBoiler78]

If we shot 32% from three last night, we win the game, but the choke gene took over. I have said repeatedly we only need to shoot a mediocre 30-35% to win. Too many 20% or less shooting games.

good post, what's so amazing is everyone was off.

 

[DannyGranger]

Yep. NCAA is a guards game.

Hopefully, 3 things ..
1. We have room for a transfer & can land another productive one.
2. Colvin uses his athleticism as an All B10 frosh and is able to give us a spark when in the game at the 2 & 3.
3. Strength training makes the 2 sophomore guards more competitive where they can produce and not regress against athletic or experienced guards.

Strength training didn't addresses quickness.

Painter used to say he wanted the best shooter in each the class when he got - Dakota; Ryan. But he didn't come close this year, he got an even weaker athlete but a poor shooter. This is the worst shooting season from a high volume 3-pt in the history on the program. If we're setting for 31% 3-pt shooting at least get a + athlete who can defense and penetrate. With the minutes loyer played, I'm not seeing this huge dramatic positive outputchange in the next year or two.

I just think he was resigned to a rebuilding year and says f'k it. He was shocked himself by the strong start.

What I don't want to hear is loyer, Morton, or Newman are reason why we won't be AGGRESSIVE in the portal. I don't want to hear about team chemistry or hurting underperforming players feeling. Backcourt roster turnover has to be ruthless. Again won't happened, I know...

 

[Boiler Buck]

Strength training didn't addresses quickness.

What I don't want to hear is loyer, Morton, or Newman are reason why we won't be AGGRESSIVE in the portal. I don't want to hear about team chemistry or hurting underperforming players feeling. Backcourt roster turnover has to be ruthless. Again won't happened, I know...

I am not talking past tense. Loyer definitely needs strength training for future wherever he plays in the future which is most likely Purdue. Needs Colvin to challenge him for minutes. Purdue needs Colvin to be so good he starts at the 2.

Smith is a great building piece for the future. But we need a back up.... and one good enough for options @ the 1.

And YES, hopefully the staff can motivate a quality guy off the portal to come here. But history isn't on your side in the nil era, or even past that, if you think he will be a starter quality. CMP only has brought in 1 starter guy via transfer that I can remember in Jon Octeus.

 

[Casey and his Brother]

If you go back and look at the back and forth on this forum in late summer of last year, most of it evolved around our guard play. Some believed we were desperate for back court help and others thought we were fine with what we had. In the first half of the season it looks like our guard play was going to be good enough but I don't know how anyone watching yesterday's game can't understand why we lost, our guard play is awful.

Our guards shot 37% overall and 32% from 3 this year. For those not into stats that is awful. Smith shot 37.6% form 3 and led the team. Gillis and Jenkins were the only other guys to shoot better than 35%.

This was Purdue's worst shooting 3 point shooting team since 2012-2013. This year we shot 32.2%, in 2012-2013 we shot 32.0%. For reference Purdue has had a couple of teams shoot 40% from three in the interim.

Good stats to back up the eyeball test.

 

[DannyGranger]

I am not talking past tense. Loyer definitely needs strength training for future wherever he plays in the future which is most likely Purdue. Needs Colvin to challenge him for minutes. Purdue needs Colvin to be so good he starts at the 2.

Smith is a great building piece for the future. But we need a back up.

And YES, hopefully the staff can motivate a quality guy off the portal to come here. But history isn't on your side in the nil era, or even past that, if you think he will be a starter quality. CMP only has brought in 1 starter guy via transfer that I can remember in Jon Octeus.

Typo. I don't think strength training can or will address lack of quickness or foot speed. Sasha didn't get quicker after 5 years in the program.

It can make your stronger, but not faster (in any meaningfulmway)

I'm not hopefully, but if he's not shocked into changing how he approaches roster construction and doesn't get more intentional about raising athleticism in backcourt - we'll then, I'm personally don't with him.

And again, I know he's not getting fired

 

[Boiler Buck]

Morton is maybe MAC level talent. Probably more like D2.
Can’t score, can’t create, decent defense but not very quick. Terrible scholie offer from Painter.

I have been disappointed with Morton all year, save a few outings where he was great. And those cannot be denied.

But in the majority of the time so up and down. Thought of as a good team defender, but B10 level guys blew by him all year at will.

To me Newman was better, but clearly a guy that has CMPs shortest leash which was sad, as he had way more UP side than Morton ever did. It's a shame the coaching staff didn't cultivate that more, instead of concentrating on his negatives......maybe Morton/Newman is CMPs problem in a nutshell.....prefers coachability over athleticism and doesn't know how to cultivate guys like Newman into greatness.

 

[Casey and his Brother]

Typo. I don't think strength training can or will address lack of quickness or foot speed. Sasha didn't get quicker after 5 years in the program.

It can make your stronger, but not faster (in any meaningfulmway)

I'm not hopefully, but if he's not shocked into changing how he approaches roster construction and doesn't get more intentional about raising athleticism in backcourt - we'll then, I'm personally don't with him.

And again, I know he's not getting fired

Loyer is ten times the player SS was. But the question is will he ever be good enough to beat D2 ballers?

 

[Boiler Buck]

Typo. I don't think strength training can or will address lack of quickness or foot speed. Sasha didn't get quicker after 5 years in the program.

It can make your stronger, but not faster (in any meaningfulmway)

I'm not hopefully, but if he's not shocked into changing how he approaches roster construction and doesn't get more intentional about raising athleticism in backcourt - we'll then, I'm personally don't with him.

And again, I know he's not getting fired

You are right there, but will help guys finish their drives.

And I hope Colvin addresses the problems at the 2.

 

[DannyGranger]

Loyer is ten times the player SS was. But the question is will he ever be good enough to beat D2 ballers?

Based on what? Seriously. A hot steak of a handful on games in November? Same level of athleticism (poor) and a much worse shooter with huge volume of shots.

Better ball handler- ok. But the credit he built up in December has been eaten u completely with me. He’s been our worst starter for 2 months

 

[PaBoiler78]

I have been disappointed with Morton all year, save a few outings where he was great. And those cannot be denied.

But in the majority of the time so up and down. Thought of as a good team defender, but B10 level guys blew by him all year at will.

To me Newman was better, but clearly a guy that has CMPs shortest leash which was sad, as he had way more UP side than Morton ever did. It's a shame the coaching staff didn't cultivate that more, instead of concentrating on his negatives......maybe Morton/Newman is CMPs problem in a nutshell.....prefers coachability over athleticism and doesn't know how to cultivate guys like Newman into greatness.

hopefully not doing this to TKR

 

[jdbrees922]

If Loyer was a decent ball handler he should have been able to take that pass and sprinted up the sidelines to create an3 on 2 or 2 on 1 fast break. Instead he throws it back to Smith and they have to walk it up under pressure. So no he isn’t a good ball handler