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Felipe Haase to South Carolina

Once again, recruiting is coach first, school second.
Do you think it should be any other way. You are going to spend the next four (or whatever) years under his care, custody, and control. When my son was being recruited, his though was, who do I want to be yelling at me for four years. After that, he may have considered other aspects. A degree is a degree for most employers. Perhaps not for the elite academic guys, but for athletes ... it's a check in the box that says "College Degree." And yes, he has had a great life and is in a terrific management position with a well known multi-national company.
 
Should be, but it won't be. Take a look at who will be here in 2018, assuming Biggie isn't back as a senior. It's looking pretty awful, and is a repeat of the dark days of 2012 and 2013. 2017 has produced low ranked projects who look a lot like past low ranked prospects such as Lawson, Hale, Tacos, Bade, etc. This in a year where Indiana was LOADED, Painter was devoted to recruiting the best (and I don't doubt at all that he was devoted and tried his best) and yet he still struck out, landing guys that looked like plan D or E when 2017 recruiting began.

11 years in, we have more NCAA tournament misses than we do sweet 16's, one shared B1G title and not a single elite 8 to our name. Recruiting has been decent at times, but not good enough to bring us our first four since before many of us were born. For those that think this is the year, we've been hearing that for a while. Spoiler alert... we don't have the D or the guard play to do it, and I think we finish with a worse record that last year, likely a lower seed and an exit in round 2.

CMP has not been awful, no one should say that. But he isn't going to elevate this program past a B1G title every decade or so and the occasional S16 to go along with some real clunkers (2018 is right around the corner). If you are ok with that, cool, CMP is your guy. For the rest of us, eventually you have to realize that your ceiling is pretty mediocre, and while the floor could be lower, you take a risk and see if you can do something special. We can always get another CMP type in here who is paid as a top 4 coach in the B1G and produces top 5-6 numbers over his tenure (behind in B1G championships and advancing in the tourney to Izzo, Beilein, Matta, Crean, Wisky combination).


I respect this post as it is well reasoned -- even though it might be negative toward CMP the man has his reasons and a lot of them I agree with. For now though, I just want to give CMP another shot at the FF this year and/or another shot at recruiting that monster class Purdue needs in 2018.

For the team now...I see deficiencies of D and guard play....but it is a long season and lots of time to improve and Painter has shown the ability to improve teams.

But no improvement resulting in a lackluster finish, and continued above average recruiting....then I might be in your camp as I am getting toward retirement, and would like to see a FF w/ Purdue as one item on my bucket list.....but for now I am a proud Boiler and all in with Purdue and CMP.

BOILER UP!
 
I don't believe for a second that Cubs fans were responsible for the drought. The fans have provided a massive advantage, as they have been historically for the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers.

Likewise, in college sports, a loyal fan base is a huge asset.

If you are business man you would understand.
 
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I respect this post as it is well reasoned -- even though it might be negative toward CMP the man has his reasons and a lot of them I agree with. For now though, I just want to give CMP another shot at the FF this year and/or another shot at recruiting that monster class Purdue needs in 2018.

For the team now...I see deficiencies of D and guard play....but it is a long season and lots of time to improve and Painter has shown the ability to improve teams.

But no improvement resulting in a lackluster finish, and continued above average recruiting....then I might be in your camp as I am getting toward retirement, and would like to see a FF w/ Purdue as one item on my bucket list.....but for now I am a proud Boiler and all in with Purdue and CMP.

BOILER UP!
I'm somewhat concerned about Matt's ability to improve teams. We had the year everyone thought we would miss the tourney and then in February turned it around. That was Hammons sophomore year I think. But, other than that, not so much.

I kept waiting last year for us to jell, but it didn't happen. We beat the teams we were supposed to beat for the most part, but never hit that next gear as I expected. Seems like that happened more often under Keady. Maybe I'm wrong.

With Biggie, V Edwards, and C Edwards, and a decent supporting cast, I expect this team to get better as the year goes on and upset some teams on the road and hold serve at home in the BIG. Anything less and I am concerned. I do expect them to struggle on D early, but if Matt is the coach he needs to be, I expect more improvement over the season than I saw last year.

Maybe I need to manage my expectations.
 
Maybe I need to manage my expectations.
Or just get realistic ones. If you don't see the improvement in the teams, then you aren't watching closely enough.

Let's also not forget that there were rule changes that impacted our team because CMP recruited for one thing and that was essentially nullified so he has to now change his philosophy. We are seeing that now with the types of recruits he is going after and getting.

Basically, don't be like the the 3 or 4 on here that have already jumped off the ledge. It's not nearly as bad as they want you to believe.
 
Do you think it should be any other way. You are going to spend the next four (or whatever) years under his care, custody, and control. When my son was being recruited, his though was, who do I want to be yelling at me for four years. After that, he may have considered other aspects. A degree is a degree for most employers. Perhaps not for the elite academic guys, but for athletes ... it's a check in the box that says "College Degree." And yes, he has had a great life and is in a terrific management position with a well known multi-national company.
Just a subtle reference to prior recruiting discussions.
 
Not responding to anyone in particular, but the Cubs did it by cleaning house along with ownership changes. Why can't Purdue do the same? I know there are major differences. We are a public institution and not a business. The current state of Purdue basketball is respectable. The Cubs before the wholesale changes were not etc...
iirc the cubs had a top 5 payroll in 2016 though
 
also,
can someone please sticky one of these threads?!
it would save both sides a lot of time, as the same arguments are made repeatedly
 
iirc the cubs had a top 5 payroll in 2016 though

I say whatever it takes. Cubs previous owner the Tribune Company made more $$ by spending a little as possible and didn't give a rats ass about their fans. The Ricketts spend a ton more $$ and probably earning less than the previous owner in 2016, but they got it done for their fans and will most likely get rewarded for years to come. Sometime this is what it takes. No risks no rewards.
 
You don't know much about sales, do you? :)

I was taking your point about wasting money (Your point, remember?) and extending it to show how silly your original comment actually was. I know a good deal about sales, thank you, but obviously you don't - hence your original comment.

I now see your play. You just want to pick fights on here. You have picked fights with many of the posters here about really silly stuff. Just about every thread has some strange argumentative exchange from you. I think you are not a Boilermaker fan, at all. You seem to get some sort of weird pleasure from the attention you get by setting up arguments.

I think we are done here.
 
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I was taking your point about wasting money (Your point, remember?) and extending it to show how silly your original comment actually was. I know a good deal about sales, thank you, but obviously you don't - hence your original comment.

I now see your play. You just want to pick fights on here. You have picked fights with many of the posters here about really silly stuff. Just about every thread has some strange argumentative exchange from you. I think you are not a Boilermaker fan, at all. You seem to get some sort of weird pleasure from the attention you get by setting up arguments.

I think we are done here.
Yep. You're right. I pick fights...oh wait...no I don't. I state an opinion different from the 4 remaining Painter fans, and they pick fights, call name and then when engaged ultimately resort to the, "You're not a Purdue fan" and "You know nothing about basketball" arguments. You are right on plan. Much like CMP's recruiting. Would you like me to post the steps again? :)
 
If you are business man you would understand.
I understand, but I don't agree. The major leagues are full of "have nots" who have little chance of doing anything. The Cubs are in tremendous position to be the dominant franchise in the National League for years to come and having a great fan base has a lot to do with it.

In any sport, having a fan base that supports the team is a huge asset. In the NFL, would you rather have the Green Bay fan base or the Jacksonville fan base? In college football, would you rather have the Notre Dame fan base or the IU or Purdue fan bases? In college basketball, would you rather have the Northwestern fan base or the IU fan base. (The IU fan base is a huge part of the reason why Crean was able to recruit Cody Zeller when the team was awful. Meanwhile Northwestern, Penn State, and Rutgers demonstrate that weak fan support doesn't guarantee success.)

The Cubs had bad management for a long time and I get that they were enabled by the fan support, but there are many organizations with poor fan support that have maintained equally weak management. If you look at the landscape of sports in general, it's clear that teams with enthusiastic fan support have an edge.
 
I understand, but I don't agree. The major leagues are full of "have nots" who have little chance of doing anything. The Cubs are in tremendous position to be the dominant franchise in the National League for years to come and having a great fan base has a lot to do with it.

In any sport, having a fan base that supports the team is a huge asset. In the NFL, would you rather have the Green Bay fan base or the Jacksonville fan base? In college football, would you rather have the Notre Dame fan base or the IU or Purdue fan bases? In college basketball, would you rather have the Northwestern fan base or the IU fan base. (The IU fan base is a huge part of the reason why Crean was able to recruit Cody Zeller when the team was awful. Meanwhile Northwestern, Penn State, and Rutgers demonstrate that weak fan support doesn't guarantee success.)

The Cubs had bad management for a long time and I get that they were enabled by the fan support, but there are many organizations with poor fan support that have maintained equally weak management. If you look at the landscape of sports in general, it's clear that teams with enthusiastic fan support have an edge.

Cubs fans show up at Wrigley for the atmosphere and not necessary for the team on the field. The Tribune Company milked it for all it was worth and spending as little has possible on the team, players and coaches etc. That's why they were so bad for so long. Then came new owners with new visions, took on new risks, hire the right people and 7 years later and they are on top of the world.

You could say whatever about Crean, but this asswipe can recruit for reasons unknown to me. Although being IU does not hurt, as they been to the FF and have won NC within the last 20 years, which more than we could say about our beloved Purdue.

Fan base is great, and some of you fans out there are quite happy just being respectable. For me and for a lot of other Purdue fans it is not enough. It is time that we expect more. If CMP can't get us there, then maybe it is time for a change.
 
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Cubs fans show up at Wrigley for the atmosphere and not necessary for the team on the field. The Tribune Company milked for all it was worth and spending as little has possible on the team, players and coaches etc. That's why they were so bad for so long. Then came new owners with new visions, took on new risks, hire the right people and 7 years later and they are on top of the world.

You could say whatever about Crean, but this asswipe can recruit for reasons unknown to me. Although being IU does not hurt, as they been to the FF and have won NC within the last 20 years, which more than we could say about our beloved Purdue.

Fan base is great, and some of you fans out there are quite happy just being respectable. For me and for a lot of other Purdue fans it is not enough. It is time that we expect more. If CMP can't get us there, then maybe it is time for a change.
Money speaks...
IU is spending big bucks on recruiting... Purdue isn't. ...'nuff said.
 
Cubs fans show up at Wrigley for the atmosphere and not necessary for the team on the field. The Tribune Company milked it for all it was worth and spending as little has possible on the team, players and coaches etc. That's why they were so bad for so long. Then came new owners with new visions, took on new risks, hire the right people and 7 years later and they are on top of the world.

You could say whatever about Crean, but this asswipe can recruit for reasons unknown to me. Although being IU does not hurt, as they been to the FF and have won NC within the last 20 years, which more than we could say about our beloved Purdue.

Fan base is great, and some of you fans out there are quite happy just being respectable. For me and for a lot of other Purdue fans it is not enough. It is time that we expect more. If CMP can't get us there, then maybe it is time for a change.
The Tribune Company was bad, but the Cubs had more success under them than they did in the previous 70 years. And Cubs fan cared passionately during those years, maybe too passionately if you consider Steve Bartman.

Baseball has had equally cheap and awful ownership with weak fan bases as well. Jeffrey Loria at Florida is a perfect example. He proved that it is very possible to slash payrolls and drive a championship organization into the ground without a loyal fan base. Disloyal fans didn't incent him to invest in his team.

Every Purdue fan wants more, but enthusiastically supporting the team in the mean time is the best thing for the program. Good fans who are supportive of the coach are an asset, not a liability. If Purdue had more fans like that across Indiana, it would help recruiting and the program, in general.

BTW, I recall when Andy Reid was fired from the Eagles because ownership wanted more. They got rid of one of the better coaches in football and now Kansas City has a much better shot at a championship in the foreseeable future than Philadelphia.
 
The Tribune Company was bad, but the Cubs had more success under them than they did in the previous 70 years. And Cubs fan cared passionately during those years, maybe too passionately if you consider Steve Bartman.

Baseball has had equally cheap and awful ownership with weak fan bases as well. Jeffrey Loria at Florida is a perfect example. He proved that it is very possible to slash payrolls and drive a championship organization into the ground without a loyal fan base. Disloyal fans didn't incent him to invest in his team.

Every Purdue fan wants more, but enthusiastically supporting the team in the mean time is the best thing for the program. Good fans who are supportive of the coach are an asset, not a liability. If Purdue had more fans like that across Indiana, it would help recruiting and the program, in general.

BTW, I recall when Andy Reid was fired from the Eagles because ownership wanted more. They got rid of one of the better coaches in football and now Kansas City has a much better shot at a championship in the foreseeable future than Philadelphia.

No risks no rewards. I'm willing to give Painter a little more time, but if he continues to underachieve and can't get the recruits here to get us there, then we need a change.
 
Should be, but it won't be. Take a look at who will be here in 2018, assuming Biggie isn't back as a senior. It's looking pretty awful, and is a repeat of the dark days of 2012 and 2013. 2017 has produced low ranked projects who look a lot like past low ranked prospects such as Lawson, Hale, Tacos, Bade, etc. This in a year where Indiana was LOADED, Painter was devoted to recruiting the best (and I don't doubt at all that he was devoted and tried his best) and yet he still struck out, landing guys that looked like plan D or E when 2017 recruiting began.

11 years in, we have more NCAA tournament misses than we do sweet 16's, one shared B1G title and not a single elite 8 to our name. Recruiting has been decent at times, but not good enough to bring us our first four since before many of us were born. For those that think this is the year, we've been hearing that for a while. Spoiler alert... we don't have the D or the guard play to do it, and I think we finish with a worse record that last year, likely a lower seed and an exit in round 2.

CMP has not been awful, no one should say that. But he isn't going to elevate this program past a B1G title every decade or so and the occasional S16 to go along with some real clunkers (2018 is right around the corner). If you are ok with that, cool, CMP is your guy. For the rest of us, eventually you have to realize that your ceiling is pretty mediocre, and while the floor could be lower, you take a risk and see if you can do something special. We can always get another CMP type in here who is paid as a top 4 coach in the B1G and produces top 5-6 numbers over his tenure (behind in B1G championships and advancing in the tourney to Izzo, Beilein, Matta, Crean, Wisky combination).


Solid take. I agree with all of this. Next year's class is a clunker so far unfortunately. Winning games in the tournament cures all. Painter has a huge monkey on his back with that and the competition knows that.

This is a huge season for the future of Purdue basketball. We go deep in the tournament and I think recruiting will come around. If not then look for a pretty steep decline for a few years because the lack of talent coming in.
 
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Why are we getting bent out of shape over losing the #283 ranked player in the country?

We should be excited. We now have a shot at still getting Epperson. I would like to see how the year unfolds. I doubt we lose more than one player early to the draft. We can recover from that. Eastern is still the focus. Wheeler and Eastern are solid players and Haarms could be a surprising addition as well. The 2018 class is going to be so incredibly important. We have got to hit on some of the top choices to prepare for life after PJ, VE, DM, and Haas.
 
Solid take. I agree with all of this. Next year's class is a clunker so far unfortunately. Winning games in the tournament cures all. Painter has a huge monkey on his back with that and the competition knows that.

This is a huge season for the future of Purdue basketball. We go deep in the tournament and I think recruiting will come around. If not then look for a pretty steep decline for a few years because the lack of talent coming in.

Winning in the tournament cures all for everyone short term, but it doesn't always translate into great future recruits. Recruiting is about prestige and location and budget of course, but I really think its about 80% on the coach, his ability to sell, his personality and ability to connect with recruits, his ability to play a style that is attractive to recruits and of course his ability to win. Is Painter able to sell and win big time recruits with regularity, even if he has a good run one year? I'm not convinced, but I guess it starts with having a good run.
 
Ask any Cubs fans and they will tell the Ricketts are the Cubs.
I say what whatever it takes, change the BOT (not so easy), AD (done), CMP (if he can't get it done).

Well none of the three are changing anytime in the next few years whether we like it or not.
 
We should be excited. We now have a shot at still getting Epperson. I would like to see how the year unfolds. I doubt we lose more than one player early to the draft. We can recover from that. Eastern is still the focus. Wheeler and Eastern are solid players and Haarms could be a surprising addition as well. The 2018 class is going to be so incredibly important. We have got to hit on some of the top choices to prepare for life after PJ, VE, DM, and Haas.

Not entirely convinced we'll even lose one even though Swanigan gives the appearance that he's willing to go without much regard to his draft status. Every year we pay a ton of lip service to players leaving early. Then they never do. Who was the last player we had that left early? Big Dog? That should tell us something.
 
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Winning in the tournament cures all for everyone short term, but it doesn't always translate into great future recruits. Recruiting is about prestige and location and budget of course, but I really think its about 80% on the coach, his ability to sell, his personality and ability to connect with recruits, his ability to play a style that is attractive to recruits and of course his ability to win. Is Painter able to sell and win big time recruits with regularity, even if he has a good run one year? I'm not convinced, but I guess it starts with having a good run.

Insanity.
 
Oh please. Not the sales metaphors again. Find another way to make your point. I don't know shit about sales. Because I don't care.
The whole sales argument is hands down the dumbest thing to use to defend a point. Ever. Nadville though is pretty cluesless to begin with, so I wouldn't expect much else from him.
 
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I respect this post as it is well reasoned -- even though it might be negative toward CMP the man has his reasons and a lot of them I agree with. For now though, I just want to give CMP another shot at the FF this year and/or another shot at recruiting that monster class Purdue needs in 2018.

For the team now...I see deficiencies of D and guard play....but it is a long season and lots of time to improve and Painter has shown the ability to improve teams.

But no improvement resulting in a lackluster finish, and continued above average recruiting....then I might be in your camp as I am getting toward retirement, and would like to see a FF w/ Purdue as one item on my bucket list.....but for now I am a proud Boiler and all in with Purdue and CMP.

BOILER UP!
What happened to the monster 2017 class after 1 man in '16 which left us with zero depth this year? We'll just kick the can down the road until 2018 and all will be fine. NB is right, the damage will be felt the next couple years. Brace for it, rub the genie bottle, or go full blown Ostrich. Doesn't matter.
 
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