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Down year for the conference?

FirstDownB

All-American
Oct 12, 2015
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It's early, but the rest of the conference is not off to a great start.
Is it a down year? And does that change expectations?

Notable wins:
Marquette (Purdue)
Providence (Minnesota)
Butler (Maryland)
DePaul (Illinois)
Pittsburgh (Penn St)

Losses:
Duke (Mich State)
St. John's (Nebraska)
Xavier (Wisconsin)
Seton Hall (Indiana)
Creighton (Northwestern)
Indiana St (Indiana)
Texas Tech (Northwestern)
UL Lafayette (Iowa)
LSU (Michigan)
Baylor (Wisconsin)
Texas A&M (Penn St)
UCLA (Wisconsin)
SD State (Iowa)
 
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The notable wins are all good.

Duke by 7 on a neutral court is not shameful.

Wisconsin losing at home by 10 is not a good sign.

Creighton will be dancing this year. NW was a bubble team last year and I expect them to be again. It was on what is really a neutral court.

St. Johns was in their barn and I don't expect a lot out of Nebraska.

IU is a dumpster fire right now. We'll see if they eventually buy into Miller's system. He really needs a couple of years to turn that around.
 
It's early, but the rest of the conference is not off to a great start.
Is it a down year? And does that change expectations?

Notable wins:
Marquette
Providence
Butler

Notable losses:
Duke
St. John's
Xavier
Seton Hall
Creighton
Indiana St
I hope not. But man, I can remember a day when Northwester being picked in the top 4 in the B1G would have meant a terrible year for the conference. :D
 
The notable wins are all good.

Duke by 7 on a neutral court is not shameful.

Wisconsin losing at home by 10 is not a good sign.

Creighton will be dancing this year. NW was a bubble team last year and I expect them to be again. It was on what is really a neutral court.

St. Johns was in their barn and I don't expect a lot out of Nebraska.

IU is a dumpster fire right now. We'll see if they eventually buy into Miller's system. He really needs a couple of years to turn that around.
Michigan, Ohio State, Iowa, and Illinois have struggled against weak teams. Rutgers and Penn State haven't played anyone with a pulse. Any of these teams would probably have added to the notable loss column if they played anyone on the level of Marquette or Butler.

After the holiday tourneys and ACC challenge, we will have a much bigger sample size. But if this continues our SOS metrics are going to be hurting come March.
 
if Purdue takes out Arizona and Villanova, they won't have to worry about the rest of the conference. Should they lose, then the rest of the conference losses will bring the entire BIG 10 down and you can expect another 4 seed for the conference champion.

Unlike when we were hoping for wins from other BIG 10 teams to bring our conference reputation up, it appears this year other teams will be rooting for us to knock out those big non-conference opponents.
 
It's early, but the rest of the conference is not off to a great start.
Is it a down year? And does that change expectations?

Notable wins:
Marquette (Purdue)
Providence (Minnesota)
Butler (Maryland)

Notable losses:
Duke (Mich State)
St. John's (Nebraska)
Xavier (Wisconsin)
Seton Hall (Indiana)
Creighton (Northwestern)
Indiana St (Indiana)


Oh, please don't do that.

I get your point, but that's the typical B-S the IU fans have spewed in the past, when we've had success.
 
As long as Sparty stays in the top 10 the conference is fine-I hate to say that but they are considered the cream of the Big Ten. We're right there with them, and Minnesota looks legit...that's 3 teams in the top 15. I think Maryland is also better than anticipated.

I love your pic.

I'm just bummed we're not going to have him to kick around anymore. "Clappy the clown." "Clappy the tan man." Or, just simply . . . "Clappy."

*sigh*... oh, well, given their hiring decisions, maybe it won't be long before we have another.
 
Oh, please don't do that.

I get your point, but that's the typical B-S the IU fans have spewed in the past, when we've had success.
So we can't objectively discuss something because of IU fans?
Besides my question is not how hard is it to finish #1 in the conference this year, it is about overall quality and depth. That affects the SOS of all the teams with NCAA tourney aspirations, not just the champ. MSU is very, very good and if we beat them out we will have earned it. But I am also looking forward to the tourney. Every year people bitch about seeding because they haven't been paying attention to the metrics.
 
Usually for most critics, if Purdue wins the BT, it's a down year. If anyone else wins the BT, then it'll be "insert team here" winning arguably the toughest conference in America.
 
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Usually for most critics, if Purdue wins the BT, it's a down year. If anyone else wins the BT, then it'll be "insert team here" winning arguably the toughest conference in America.
Don’t worry about critics. Is the conference strong this year?
 
So we can't objectively discuss something because of IU fans?
Besides my question is not how hard is it to finish #1 in the conference this year, it is about overall quality and depth. That affects the SOS of all the teams with NCAA tourney aspirations, not just the champ. MSU is very, very good and if we beat them out we will have earned it. But I am also looking forward to the tourney. Every year people bitch about seeding because they haven't been paying attention to the metrics.

Don't do that. I've read this forum for years. You're better than that. Of course you can . . . "objectively discuss" it. I never wrote you couldn't.

But, my point was clear, and it was spot on if you've been around these parts for any period of time. When you start talking about a 'down year' when we're poised for an extraordinarily successful year, it becomes fodder.

The season is what it is, and the conference is what it is. There's no way to tell strength of conference until we have a much bigger sample size.

of course, if you want to talk down the conference, have at it. Besides, strong conference or not, doesn't matter. We just play.
 
At the moment, MSU is still a top 5 squad, Purdue is a top 10, Minny & Maryland are top 25, and NW is a fringe top 25. Wiscy will make the tournament.

Six tourney teams and potentially two 1/2 seeds seems like a pretty typical year for the B1G.
 
At the moment, MSU is still a top 5 squad, Purdue is a top 10, Minny & Maryland are top 25, and NW is a fringe top 25. Wiscy will make the tournament.

Six tourney teams and potentially two 1/2 seeds seems like a pretty typical year for the B1G.
Thank you for answering the question.
 
At the moment, MSU is still a top 5 squad, Purdue is a top 10, Minny & Maryland are top 25, and NW is a fringe top 25. Wiscy will make the tournament.

Six tourney teams and potentially two 1/2 seeds seems like a pretty typical year for the B1G.

Where is PU ranked in the top 10? Or are you projecting what you think will happen at the end of the season?
 
Usually for most critics, if Purdue wins the BT, it's a down year. If anyone else wins the BT, then it'll be "insert team here" winning arguably the toughest conference in America.

There are always going to be detractors. But hey, no one puts an asterisk next to a title because the conference might've been down; they count the same as all the others.
 
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Don’t worry about critics. Is the conference strong this year?


It's impossible to answer that question after 3-4 games and only one competitive game for most teams. I do believe it's going to be a top heavy conference with MSU and Purdue going 1-2 in any order. I think there's also 5-7 other teams who will beat each other up fighting for 3rd.

But we'll know more tomorrow.
 
Thanks for posting that composite. I have to admit I've never heard of most of those.

I'm a fan of KenPom. He has us at 16. I'll be interested to see how that changes in the next 2 weeks.
Kpom 12
 
I feel that the conference overall is strong again this year. What I see as being different is the high variance. The top 3 or 4 teams are really strong but the bottom 3 teams are really terrible (sorry, "turrible"). In other words, on average the conference is good but there are notable outliers.

Go Purdue!
CoBo
 
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Texas Tech (Northwestern) and UL-Lafayette (Iowa) added to the loss column. Nothing notable added to the win column, unless you count USF.

The brethren need to get things going.
 
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So far it looks a little down. ACC-B10 Challenge may give us a better sense of things. I've never really cared what others have said about the years we won the conference title. We stay consistent while MSU, IU, UM, OSU go up and down. Their problem, otherwise ours.
 
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So far it looks a little down. ACC-B10 Challenge may give us a better sense of things. I've never really cared what others have said about the years we won the conference title. We stay consistent while MSU, IU, UM, OSU go up and down. Their problem, otherwise ours.
I don't care what people say either. But these OOC games do affect seeding in March. I think we would have been better off last year avoiding a 1 seed until the Elite 8
 
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I don't care what people say either. But these OOC games do affect seeding in March. I think we would have been better off last year avoiding a 1 seed until the Elite 8

That's part I agree with. I've said for PU to make the next step, getting to the 2/3 line is essential. From a probability-to-advance standpoint, there is a huge difference between being a 3 seed vs 4. Each selection Sunday when I see PU on that 4/5 line, it feels like the S16 is a ceiling.
 
I hear this just about every year it seems. What quantifies being "down" ? Top to bottom I think the B1G is one the top conferences because you can win or lose on any given night regardless of ranking and it's always been like that.

To me it doesn't mean we are "down", we're just a very competitive conference.
 
I hear this just about every year it seems. What quantifies being "down" ? Top to bottom I think the B1G is one the top conferences because you can win or lose on any given night regardless of ranking and it's always been like that.

To me it doesn't mean we are "down", we're just a very competitive conference.
I think the definition is a general lack of top-25 teams. Also there is a perception of being down if too many of the following schools are having a bad year...IU, OSU, UM, MSU or ILL. It's BS, but that is the nature of the misconception.
 
I hear this just about every year it seems. What quantifies being "down" ? Top to bottom I think the B1G is one the top conferences because you can win or lose on any given night regardless of ranking and it's always been like that.

To me it doesn't mean we are "down", we're just a very competitive conference.
To me, down means out of the top 3 in most of the computer rankings. This appears to be the third year in a row that the conference is down.

I don’t think it helps that the Big Ten doesn’t seem to dominate Midwest recruiting, quite like it used to. In Indiana, for example, there is a lot of competition from Butler, Notre Dame, Xavier, Louisville (though that might decrease), UK, etc. Specifically, it didn’t help when Butler, Xavier, and Creighton joined the Big East. I am really hoping that the Big Ten can reestablish itself as the premier Midwest Basketball conference in the minds of recruits.
 
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As long as Sparty stays in the top 10 the conference is fine-I hate to say that but they are considered the cream of the Big Ten. We're right there with them, and Minnesota looks legit...that's 3 teams in the top 15. I think Maryland is also better than anticipated.
Yep, hate to say it but you're right. As long as MSU stays up there the big ten is doing just fine!
 
I believe the thinking is coming from prior tourney seeding, and a little bit from football philosophy. there was a time when no BIG 10 football team, no matter how bad they were, would ever lose to a MAC football team. and then Purdue broke that string.

there was a time when Purdue would NEVE R lose at home regardless of the opponent. and that was true for many other BIG 10 teams. There was a time when BIG 10 teams would NEVE R lose a recruiting battle with teams like Cincy, Butler, Xavier, Creighton or Dayton. if a BIG 10 team showed interest, the recruit was theirs. The state's Player of the year almost always signed with the BIG 10 team of his respective state, except if Duke, UK, UCLA or Kansas called. IU lost a recruiting battle for a elite player to Vandy? Purdue lost Embury in a recruiting battle to who?

there used to be tiers. You still see at least 1 BIG 10 team in the top 10. But there used to be 1-3 BIG 10 teams in the top 10. And the bottom of the BIG 10 would have teams that would go undefeated in their preseason and then win 1-2 games in conference. and what I'm seeing now, is our bottom teams are looking like they'd be bottom teams in lesser conferences.

there was a time if the conversation was raised about Purdue football, that if Purdue were in the MAC for football, it would have a string of championships. but then along came Hazell, and people said we'd be lucky if we went 7-5 as a MAC team. the same is starting to hold true for some BIG 10 basketball teams. the lesser conferences now have teams that could be competitive in the BIG 10, and could actually beat many of our teams.

and to be the best, our best teams need to beat the other conferences' best teams. A quality loss is still ....... a loss. Fore the BIG 10 to maintain its status, and for Purdue to be considered an elite team, both the conference and Purdue needs to beat Louisville, Butler, Villanova and Arizona. if we want that top 10 ranking, we need to win those games against other top teams. and if Purdue expects to receive anything better than a 4 seed, it needs to win at least 3 of those 4 games. the out of conference games carry a lot more weight than the in conference games do.

it's not that the BIG 10 is down. it's just that the rest of NCAA basketball has risen a lot more than the BIG 10 has. if this was a finance course, Purdue would be a cash cow and Wichita St would be a growth stock. By all standards, Wichita St should not be better than Purdue. Facilities, Coach, attendance, money , talent "SHOULD" favor Purdue. To me, if a team like Wichita st is better than Purdue, then yes, it's a down year for both Purdue and the Conference.
 
I hear this just about every year it seems. What quantifies being "down" ? Top to bottom I think the B1G is one the top conferences because you can win or lose on any given night regardless of ranking and it's always been like that.

To me it doesn't mean we are "down", we're just a very competitive conference.
Out of conference results, primarily. Anything else is subjective. And so far, the Big Ten as a whole is crapping the bed. Fortunately we are in one of the better Thanksgiving tournaments this year, so if we beat Tennessee our SOS will get a boost from playing Nova and Zona/SMU.
 
Thinking? What thinking? You posted a ridiculous screed that said nothing. The conference is down, enough said.

if Purdue were to in Atlantis, I believe you would change your mind about the conference. What I'm saying is the Conference' status is now depending on Purdue to help carry it. The conference needs more than just one team - MSU - to carry its weight. Some team has got to step up and beat the heavy weights of college basketball. it's clear it's not going to be UW, Iowa, IU, or northwestern. This year it has to be Purdue.
 
We're getting our B1G ass kicked sideways everywhere. And it doesn't look better later tonight.
 
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