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Disappointed in this game but still support Painter, program.

BillDThrill said:
PU needs impactful guards. Painter recruits wings ... not true guards. It's been his Achilles heel throughout his career. PU was one solid PG from being a legit NC contender this year. Obviously showed today.
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No, he recruits guards. It's just that he doesn't recruit or "coach-up" some of his better guards that well and he doesn't conduct an offensive scheme that gives his better guards the space they need to be more effective offensively. He's had one future NBA guard in his tenure: E'Twaun Moore.

Also, when he recruits PG's, he recruits too many short ones (Korey Spates, Tarrance Crump, Lewis Jackson, Ronnie Johnson, Bryson Scott, P.J Thompson; Jackson at least had great athleticism and a pass-first mentality heading to Purdue). How many teams are successful in the NCAA Tournament with short PG's that aren't great shooters or scorers?
 
*4purdue* said:
Really??? That's what we get for 2.3 million
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You realize our football coach who has won...6 games in 3 years...is pretty much paid the same?

Amazing people get up in arms about Painter, yet are just "oh well" with Hazell.
 
BoilerBulldog said:
No ones OK with this outcome. But firing Painter is not the answer. I predict we are significantly better the next two years at least.
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I guarantee we won't win more games next season.
I am aslo willing to bet a small amount we won't get past the first weekend either.
 
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heytherehoodoo said:
Are you aware that most of the conference season, the only reason they maintained their rank is because of how many teams were losing around them in the rankings at the same time? Mirage?
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Why does that matter? The same thing happens every year. If you lose more than everyone else, you go down, if you don't, you move up. Not sure what conclusion you hope to draw from that...
 
nagemj02 said:
Do you really think he's going to become a better head coach in the next two years? He might get some good recruits, but he's not going to improve as an in-game coach after being a head coach for this long.
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This we have seen what a painter team gets you. I have 0 faith in a Painter coach team ever making it to Final 4 unless the other team never presses! His teams fail at pressure which is weird you would think constantly getting beat in close tourney games you would figure out that you need to learn how to beat the press. This is a disappointment. Painter will always leave you disappointed, there is no other way around no formula no player is going to help the fact that painters team lose in close games. Its not players that lose close games its coaches, plain and simple.

I bet if we took every coach that has made it to the final four and looked into how many of the close games they have won vs loss the data would speak for itself when compared to Painter. He just won't get it done. Fire him now while people think we are crazy, someone will snatch him up and overpay him reducing our buyout!
 
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lbodel said:
You realize our football coach who has won...6 games in 3 years...is pretty much paid the same?

Amazing people get up in arms about Painter, yet are just "oh well" with Hazell.
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You realize this is the hoops forum? If you want to see bit%&* about football, you need to switch boards...I'm sure there is plenty over there
 
*4purdue* said:
You realize this is the hoops forum? If you want to see bit%&* about football, you need to switch boards...I'm sure there is plenty over there
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Most people accept that Hazel buyout is just too big, he isn't going to get another HC job so its not going to lower. Painter can be shown the door and get grabbed up by another P5 school everyone will think we are crazy! The truth is he is a good not great coach! He will get you to the tourney and then disappoint you and leave you with blue balls. He will get 1mill/year maybe more and in most contracts that subtracts the teams buyout by 1 million/year! Painter is the is similar of Iowa's football coach (with less success!), he is paid well but really hasn't done much since he got that big contract!
 
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*4purdue* said:
You realize this is the hoops forum? If you want to see bit%&* about football, you need to switch boards...I'm sure there is plenty over there
Click to expand...

Most people accept that Hazel buyout is just too big, he isn't going to get another HC job so its not going to lower. Painter can be shown the door and get grabbed up by another P5 school everyone will think we are crazy! The truth is he is a good not great coach! He will get you to the tourney and then disappoint you and leave you with blue balls. He will get 1mill/year maybe more and in most contracts that subtracts the teams buyout by 1 million/year! Painter is the is similar of Iowa's football coach (with less success!), he is paid well but really hasn't done much since he got that big contract!
 
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*4purdue* said:
You realize this is the hoops forum? If you want to see bit%&* about football, you need to switch boards...I'm sure there is plenty over there
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I'm well aware.

2-10 = 26-9 I guess.

I guess we should be going undefeated for a coach to keep their job around here!
 
lbodel said:
I'm well aware.

2-10 = 26-9 I guess.

I guess we should be going undefeated for a coach to keep their job around here!
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It's completely relevant for those of us that don't want to see the basketball program scrapped because some crazy fans think our baseline is the Sweet Sixteen. I sat by for years and watched people pile on Hope and saw our AD fire him as if they could just go hire anyone as an upgrade. Well they hired someone and we're in the midst of our worst 3 year stretch in program history.

My #1 rule for firing coaches is that you better have an upgrade lined up before you fire the other guy. If Burke didn't have reasonable assurances that the NIU or UC coach (our top two choices apparently) would take the job then you don't fire a guy who was performing about to the standards that you expect from the Purdue program historically. We fired Hope coming off 2 bowl seasons, hired Hazell, and haven't sniffed a bowl game since.

Now Painter. Who is it that you think we're going to go out and hire that would represent an upgrade or do you just want to scrap what we have and hope for the best because it is likely our next coach will be worse. We were ranked in the top 25 pretty much all season and finished in the top 10 before the NCAA tournament. I think it's far more likely that Painter gets the right mix of players to make a deeper run than it is that we find another coach to come and do it. In the meantime, I think Painter will continue to learn and grow as a coach and we'll be the beneficiary of that if we are smart enough to not lose our minds because our egos were bruised yesterday.
 
I also think the team will be pretty good next year, especially if Swanigan comes back. I'm curious to see what Basil will be like after his red-shirt year. I'm also intrigued about Carsen Edwards, but like all recruits, I'm going to reserve judgement until we see him play at the college level.

Some off-season points of emphasis:
  1. Purdue really needs at least one reliable three-point shooter to emerge from Mathias, Cline, and Stephens. I think Mathias and Cline were both on their way to that job in the second half of this year. I'm curious to see what happens with Kendall.
  2. Vince Edwards needs to embrace the role of a take-charge floor leader who is comfortable having the ball in his hands/taking the tough shots at decisive moments. I think this well happen.
  3. Isaac Haas needs to continue to improve his defense and limit fouls. I think he'll do a good job offensively and on the boards. I don't think we should expect the world from Isaac from day one. I do think foul trouble will be a bigger concern next year with Isaac probably playing 25+ minutes.
  4. Caleb: continue to work on ball security and passing from the post. Also, become a better defender.
  5. PJ: He's never going to be a huge threat going to the hoop, so continue to develop the pit-bull mentality on defense and keep hitting those open 3s.
 
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rgarlitz said:
I also think the team will be pretty good next year, especially if Swanigan comes back. I'm curious to see what Basil will be like after his red-shirt year. I'm also intrigued about Carsen Edwards, but like all recruits, I'm going to reserve judgement until we see him play at the college level.

Some off-season points of emphasis:
  1. Purdue really needs at least one reliable three-point shooter to emerge from Mathias, Cline, and Stephens. I think Mathias and Cline were both on their way to that job in the second half of this year. I'm curious to see what happens with Kendall.
  2. Vince Edwards needs to embrace the role of a take-charge floor leader who is comfortable having the ball in his hands/taking the tough shots at decisive moments. I think this well happen.
  3. Isaac Haas needs to continue to improve his defense and limit fouls. I think he'll do a good job offensively and on the boards. I don't think we should expect the world from Isaac from day one. I do think foul trouble will be a bigger concern next year with Isaac probably playing 25+ minutes.
  4. Caleb: continue to work on ball security and passing from the post. Also, become a better defender.
  5. PJ: He's never going to be a huge threat going to the hoop, so continue to develop the pit-bull mentality on defense and keep hitting those open 3s.
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Agree with what you say.

I've said this before, but with regards to Haas' defense.....Swanigan hasn't been a great defensive guy, but has gotten better. I think with these struggles, AJ had to make a lot up defensively, which made AJ better overall as a defender, but left us a bit exposed inside at times. I'd expect Swanigan to make great strides over the off-season. Thus, Haas will not get to where AJ was (and quite frankly, they have 2 different styles of defense), but the combo of Swanigan and Haas playing defense TOGETHER can make things very difficult for opponents.
 
rgarlitz said:
I also think the team will be pretty good next year, especially if Swanigan comes back. I'm curious to see what Basil will be like after his red-shirt year. I'm also intrigued about Carsen Edwards, but like all recruits, I'm going to reserve judgement until we see him play at the college level.

Some off-season points of emphasis:
  1. Purdue really needs at least one reliable three-point shooter to emerge from Mathias, Cline, and Stephens. I think Mathias and Cline were both on their way to that job in the second half of this year. I'm curious to see what happens with Kendall.
  2. Vince Edwards needs to embrace the role of a take-charge floor leader who is comfortable having the ball in his hands/taking the tough shots at decisive moments. I think this well happen.
  3. Isaac Haas needs to continue to improve his defense and limit fouls. I think he'll do a good job offensively and on the boards. I don't think we should expect the world from Isaac from day one. I do think foul trouble will be a bigger concern next year with Isaac probably playing 25+ minutes.
  4. Caleb: continue to work on ball security and passing from the post. Also, become a better defender.
  5. PJ: He's never going to be a huge threat going to the hoop, so continue to develop the pit-bull mentality on defense and keep hitting those open 3s.
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This is as spot on a post on this board as I've read in the past 24 miserable hours.
 
BoilerBulldog said:
We absolutely will win more games next year. If you can't see the talent on this team, I'm sorry.
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I think we all see it, but we also see that by far the MOST talented guy was AJ, and he's gone. I hope you're right, but I don't think we'll be quite as good, barring an impact recruit this spring. Our defense won't be as good, nor will our rebounding. I think our offense can be as good, maybe better, but not enough better to overcome the other 2 areas.
 
plaxico80 said:
What was Vince Edwards doing with 5 seconds left in a tied game?

Was he running out the clock? How did he not know the situation?
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He was pretty honest about that in his interview, and Painter accepted the responsibility...
 
BillDThrill said:
PU needs impactful guards. Painter recruits wings ... not true guards. It's been his Achilles heel throughout his career. PU was one solid PG from being a legit NC contender this year. Obviously showed today.
Click to expand...

His brand of motion offense and every-single-possession man defense is something of the past. Doing both for an entire game is not going to win games against top-tier teams with more progressive coaches, no matter how talented Purdue will be from top to bottom. The bottom line is the sooner Purdue gets a new AD and coaching staff (obviously it should be a deliberate process if we want someone who will reach their goals), the better chance Purdue has at realistically improving as a program, especially in the postseason.
 
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nagemj02 said:
His brand of motion offense and every-single-possession man defense is something of the past. Doing both for an entire game is not going to win games against top-tier teams with more progressive coaches, no matter how talented Purdue will be from top to bottom. The bottom line is the sooner Purdue gets a new AD and coaching staff (obviously it should be a deliberate process if we want someone who will reach their goals), the better chance Purdue has at realistically improving as a program, especially in the postseason.
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How will a new AD help Painter?

And who would you replace on the coaching staff to improve things? Who replaces them? What qualities are you looking for that you believe are needed?
 
purdue4sure said:
How will a new AD help Painter?

And who would you replace on the coaching staff to improve things? Who replaces them? What qualities are you looking for that you believe are needed?
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A new AD won't help Painter. A new AD can make new hires for the football and basketball programs. I would replace Painter, Owens, and Gary. I don't have a fixed set of qualities/criteria in looking for a new coaching staff, other than I would prefer them to be outside of the Keady coaching tree. Also, I believe that this program is never going to make significant postseason strides with the three aforementioned coaches in the positions they currently hold at Purdue.
 
nagemj02 said:
A new AD won't help Painter. A new AD can make new hires for the football and basketball programs. I would replace Painter, Owens, and Gary. I don't have a fixed set of qualities/criteria in looking for a new coaching staff, other than I would prefer them to be outside of the Keady coaching tree. Also, I believe that this program is never going to make significant postseason strides with the three aforementioned coaches in the positions they currently hold at Purdue.
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You replace them with someone worse and guess who is next in the unemployment line.........
 
nagemj02 said:
A new AD won't help Painter. A new AD can make new hires for the football and basketball programs. I would replace Painter, Owens, and Gary. I don't have a fixed set of qualities/criteria in looking for a new coaching staff, other than I would prefer them to be outside of the Keady coaching tree. Also, I believe that this program is never going to make significant postseason strides with the three aforementioned coaches in the positions they currently hold at Purdue.
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If you want to be taken seriously you have to give specifics. Simply saying fire all 3 of them and I have no idea who to replace them with isn't an answer.
 
Dryfly88 said:
If you want to be taken seriously you have to give specifics. Simply saying fire all 3 of them and I have no idea who to replace them with isn't an answer.
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Must be an election year. Everyone is overly dramatic at how big the problems are and an expert at pointing them out but nobody is willing to provide any specific, realistic solutions. Feel like I'm watching a presidential debate (from either party).
 
TC4THREE said:
You replace them with someone worse and guess who is next in the unemployment line.........
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People can't be scared to make those decisions. Growth can be an uncomfortable and painful process, but it is necessary for any endeavors pursued or goals desired in life to be accomplished. High Risk=High Reward. Low Risk=Low Reward.
 
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nagemj02 said:
A new AD won't help Painter. A new AD can make new hires for the football and basketball programs. I would replace Painter, Owens, and Gary. I don't have a fixed set of qualities/criteria in looking for a new coaching staff, other than I would prefer them to be outside of the Keady coaching tree. Also, I believe that this program is never going to make significant postseason strides with the three aforementioned coaches in the positions they currently hold at Purdue.
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The only certainty in your criteria is that you don't want people from the Keady tree. But you'll keep Brantley (from the Keady tree)? And that's it?

This just isn't as easy as some people think.
 
purdue4sure said:
The only certainty in your criteria is that you don't want people from the Keady tree. But you'll keep Brantley (from the Keady tree)? And that's it?

This just isn't as easy as some people think.
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Hammons and Haas seem to have developed well/are developing well under Brandon's watch. I imagine the same can occur with Swanigan as well.
 
TC4THREE said:
Meaningless cliche. By definition, "high risk" has a high probability of failure.
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Yes, but it has higher rewards if things go well, as I'm sure you already know. People can be more conservative (ex: HC's like Painter, AD's like Burke) or they can take more chances.
 
TC4THREE said:
Meaningless cliche. By definition, "high risk" has a high probability of failure.
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If it's true in a way in which we all have a common understanding, it has meaning or it else it wouldn't be understood. I'm sure you understand what high-reward generally means, just as well as you understand what high-risk means.
 
nagemj02 said:
Yes, but it has higher rewards if things go well, as I'm sure you already know. People can be more conservative (ex: HC's like Painter, AD's like Burke) or they can take more chances.
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It's meaningless because it doesn't always hold true. High risk leads to disaster more than it leads to high reward. Low risk sometimes is the right move and sometimes it can lead to high reward.

I'm more a fan of calculated risk taking instead of just change for the sake of change and hoping things get better.
 
TC4THREE said:
It's meaningless because it doesn't always hold true. High risk leads to disaster more than it leads to high reward. Low risk sometimes is the right move and sometimes it can lead to high reward.

I'm more a fan of calculated risk taking instead of just change for the sake of change and hoping things get better.
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IMO, it's not a calculated risk to bring in a new coaching staff when the entirety of the results (in this case, the most important result is ultimate success in the NCAA Tournament; you can argue that, but that's what most coaches, players, fans desire from their teams) and the eye-test of a head coach's abilities over the course of a decade into their tenure show that they are lacking the skills or abilities needed to lead their teams to the ultimate goal of winning the NCAA Tournament. CMP seems like he can be a very loyal and good guy, but it's clear now that after 12 seasons on the Purdue coaching staff, he can't do what he was brought in to do at Purdue: achieve the ultimate goal of winning the NCAA championship.
 
purdue4sure said:
The only certainty in your criteria is that you don't want people from the Keady tree. But you'll keep Brantley (from the Keady tree)? And that's it?

This just isn't as easy as some people think.
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If you want, I can eventually list some head coaches that I would like to see considered to be the next head coach of the Purdue men's basketball program. I will have to do some research, but I'm sure I'll find some candidates that I believe are realistic options once the new AD is appointed.
 
nagemj02 said:
If you want, I can eventually list some head coaches that I would like to see considered to be the next head coach of the Purdue men's basketball program. I will have to do some research, but I'm sure I'll find some candidates that I believe are realistic options once the new AD is appointed.
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Please do list the ones you want the AD to hire. Also list why you believe they are better than CMP and will lead PU to a National Championship. Their current contract situation would be helpful also as that is a huge part of getting a coach to move to a new situation. I have asked this of a couple others and so far it looks like Jacobson from UNI is the only one that has been listed that is "realistic" to make a move to PU.
 
I'm not sure we want Jacobson. Worst choke in college bball history in the tournament this year.
 
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