Day of reckoning for Cleveland State
- Thread starter ChoiceBeef
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Ha, when will Cleveland State ever learn? Kevin Mackey and then Rollie Massimino crackdown.
Bump. What are the chances Louisville, Kansas, and Arizona all get hit with major violations? Since Louisville fired their coach they will have the least severe penalty of the 3 if any IMO.
I also think Arizona and Kansas will get slaps on the wrist at the end of the day since they are blue bloods. They will make an example of LSU since their coach was directly caught talking about payments and give them the closest thing resembling the death penalty with a post season ban and strict scholarship reductions. College basketball won't miss a beat with LSU irrelevant again.....
I think Kansas might escape this one. De Sousa is really the central figure from Kansas and the NCAA initially ruled him ineligible and has recently re-instated him. Tough to think the NCAA is going to punish them considering they just re-instated de Sousa. Billy Preston is also another guy whose name was thrown around as receiving improper benefits but he was held out and never actually played a game.
I could possibly see Arizona getting hit with a failure to monitor or lack of institutional control but I think at most they vacate wins and are put on probation. Remember, most of the issues with Arizona stem from a former assistant that was steering current players to a certain sports agency.
If I had to bet on it my 6 would be - Arizona, Kansas, USC, Oklahoma State, LSU, and Miami.
It will be interesting to see how they handle all the kids on rosters. Do they release them and allow them to transfer?
"...Izzo planned to buy the team dinner the night before they played for the state title. Michigan State's compliance director, Jennifer Smith, called Izzo about an hour before the meal to say he would violate NCAA rules if he picked up the tab... Izzo's friend and Iron Mountian alum Steve Mariucci paid for the dinner instead."
Uh, yeah... mmmmm hmmmmmmmm... okay.
Anyone else find it incredibly hard to believe that Izzo is so flippin' ignorant of the rules as to NOT know that would be a violation??
Buying dinner for your Alma Mater that has an enrollment of 300 playing in their first state title is the crime of the century I tell ya. I could understand if Izzo was footing the bill for a top 50 recruit that he was pursuing, but to act like the thought of committing an NCAA violation in that moment went through his mind is obnoxious. Iron Mountain doesn't have a kid taller than 6'4 and not a single player who will sniff a D1 basketball court. To act like Izzo was trying intentionally bend the rules to gain a competitive advantage is myopic.
I have a strong dislike of Izzo and I definitely do not think he is as clean as MSU fans would have you believe, but this is a non-story. He was making a nice gesture for his alma mater and got hit with a slap on the wrist for the most minor of violations. There are plenty of reasons for Purdue fans to dislike Izzo, but this isn’t one of them. Now I need to go take a shower for defending him on this.
I've personally never considered them a blue blood even though they seem to recruit like one.
just to be clear, you think he was completely unaware that would have been a violation.
Correct?
You're welcome to defend him, but this is a guy who has been around the block MANY times... has recruited for decades... and is just now finding out he can't do this.
Keeping in mind, recruiting is JOB #1 in big time college basketball....
....completely unaware of a basic rule like that...
So where do you draw the line on following the rules? Do you only follow rules until you feel like it's OK not to, and can justify it by saying no harm was done? It's called the slippery slope. How many coaches have cheated and justified it by saying they were just offering opportunities to some kid who never had anything in his life.
Just to be clear, you think he was fully aware that he was committing a recruiting violation and decided he would risk that on a bunch of guys who will never play a minute in a D1 basketball game. Then MSU decided to self report this close call of a recruiting violation.
Correct?
C’mon, man. Izzo was not recruiting these guys, so potential recruiting violations would be nowhere near the front of his mind. I don’t understand what your argument is at all. Do you really think he just commits ncaa violations for the sake of doing it? Because he sure as hell wasnt trying to gain an unfair advantage in recruiting any of these players. I think Izzo is shady in his recruiting methods, but you need to take off your Izzo-hating shades for this one.
I don't think he was trying to walk a slippery slope by trying to bend the rules, I'm sure Izzo was oblivious to the idea that he was actually breaking an NCAA rule. It would be one thing if he was buying dinner for a school like La Lumiere or Oak Hill who produce a ton of basketball talent, and talent that Izzo is likely to recruit. That would probably trigger a warning, "Hey I'm recruiting X and X to play at Michigan State, picking up his teams tab seems like I could be crossing the line".
But picking up the tab for a school like Iron Mountain who likely has never produced a D1 basketball player in the history of their school probably doesn't trigger that kind of warning.
You're avoiding my questions and defending him.
Do you really think he's that ignorant of the rules? Really?
yeah. "C'm"on, man.
Don't play the "hate" card as a part of your defense. That's a position of incredible weakness. I don't hate Izzo, and you should be better than that. Do I question his ethics? Yes. But, "hate"? Your argument has to be stronger than that.
It's your position he's just so ignorant of the rules he didn't know he couldn't do that.
That's not a very good argument.
Would Mariucci be considered an MSU booster? He’s been at a lot of MSU games wearing MSU gear thru the years.
You avoided all of my questions and got fake offended to try to deflect all of my points because you have no argument here. It’s not my position that he’s ignorant of the rules, but when he is doing something that has nothing to do with recruiting, he is obviously not going to be focused on the rules of recruiting. I haven’t avoided any of your questions. Quit being mad online and admit that your bias is clouding your judgement on this one. It’s really a bad look to take your stance. It’s coming off as whiny and sour grapes. As I’ve said in all of my other posts, I believe Izzo is shady in his recruiting, just not this time.
I think the NCAAs goal out of this will be to get schools to a) act on coaches themselves and b) Hopefully lead to schools not wanting to hire them
I'd guess they'll try to make an example out of schools that have tried to pretend like nothing is happening and have let the coaches carry on (i.e. Arizona and LSU). And perhaps then go lighter on a school that did get rid of their coach....i.e. Louisville.
The "hate" charge didn't work for you, now you default to the weak positions that I was somehow "offended"... And, I was "mad. (I was neither.)
You keep trying to make this about me, which is bizarre, as I've only advanced the question: Anyone else find it incredibly hard to believe that Izzo is so flippin' ignorant of the rules as to NOT know that would be a violation??
That was it. That's what set you off on me. It took a few bizarre posts, but now, you agree: he is NOT ignorant of the rules.
Which begs the question: If he's not ignorant of the rules, why the H*LL would he do such a thing?
I can come up with only two possibilities:
1. he doesn't care
2. he doesn't think the rules apply to him
doesn't matter.
At most, the NCAA will wag their finger and scold MSU while mustering up a "stern" face.
Izzo knows this. Mariucci knows this. Neither one cares.
Unintelligent or dishonest? Both. Iron Mountain produced Todd Lindeman. But you know that.
And
https://247sports.com/Player/Foster-Wonders-46057033/
But you know that.
And colleges are recruiting 7th and 8th graders now, not just juniors and seniors. He would not have been "bending" the rules. He would be breaking them. These is the same kind of silly arguments you used to defend Calipari. You think Izzo didn't know? LOL.
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I am not an Izzo fan but I can imagine him saying to the compliance director “if taking these kids through the locker room is a violation when none of them have a chance of D1 ball then the rules are asinine. Deal with the violation I am taking them on the tour.”
And I agree with him. I hope he reimburses Mooch for the meal.
And I agree with him. I hope he reimburses Mooch for the meal.
Hmm. Someone who thinks it's OK for a coach to break the rules. And why? Because you think these poor, underprivileged basketball players in the UP of Michigan need someone to pay for their meal? If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you pay? Then no one has to break any rules.
Andy:
Pls don't put words in my mouth. I never said or inferred that the b'ball players in the UP were poor or underprivileged. I grew up in a small town and am grateful for the experience.
As for what I do with my money. Although I spend time here in Knucklehead Central I'll get my financial advice somewhere else.
To provide you with some clarity behind my most. Yes, Izzo had a minor violation in showing the locker room to kids from his high school. He may (and probably did) commit the violation with full knowledge that he was breaking the rules.
Many of us do the same when we drive 80 in a 70. I know I am breaking the rules and fully prepared to live the the resulting ticket.
However, even though I am not an Izzo fan, I would not compare what he did to the major crap going on and not being pursued by the NCAA.
Pls don't put words in my mouth. I never said or inferred that the b'ball players in the UP were poor or underprivileged. I grew up in a small town and am grateful for the experience.
As for what I do with my money. Although I spend time here in Knucklehead Central I'll get my financial advice somewhere else.
To provide you with some clarity behind my most. Yes, Izzo had a minor violation in showing the locker room to kids from his high school. He may (and probably did) commit the violation with full knowledge that he was breaking the rules.
Many of us do the same when we drive 80 in a 70. I know I am breaking the rules and fully prepared to live the the resulting ticket.
However, even though I am not an Izzo fan, I would not compare what he did to the major crap going on and not being pursued by the NCAA.
Cleveland State upset of Indiana in 1986 is still one of my favorites upsets in the NCAA tournament.
My dad was a CSU grad and we went to several of their games that year. He pulled me out of school early to watch that game. I wasn't even a Purdue fan yet but I did already hate iu so that was extra sweet. That was a legit good team that was a David Robinson jumper away from the Elite 8.
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Again I ask, where do you draw the line? If it's illegal, why would you encourage him to do it? Especially when there is a player on their team reportedly being recruited by Div I teams, including Wisconsin. Some of you stated that there are no Div I quality players on the current roster (apparently not true), and somehow that makes it OK. How so?
I am not drawing any lines. Izzo violated a rule (I believe knowingly) and accepted the consequences to do something nice for kids from his high school.
I say yea. Others say that puts him in the same group as the egregious cheaters. Would they put Keady in that category for the violations that went on at Purdue that were far greater than a locker room tour?
Where do you get this "Far greater" stuff? Please explain what recruiting violations Keady committed? Purdue's trouble started when an assistant coach gave a player a ride in the rain. And you think that's makes Keady an "egregious cheater"? Oh yeah, and another player -- already on the team -- refused to pay back a bank loan with his Pell Grant, as agreed. And let's not forget the egregious violation that an MSU booster was giving rides to a Purdue player's Mom from Indy to Purdue games in West Lafayette.
The most "egregious" violation Purdue committed was the assistant coach lied about the ride in the rain and told the player to lie, too. Unless you know about violations that I missed.
You claim to not be drawing any lines, but you have obviously drawn a line between what Izzo was doing and what happened at Purdue. And you approve of one while stating that the other was a "far greater violation".
Andy:
Please read carefully. I did not say anything Keady did was egregious. I indicated that others where throwing Izzo in with the egregious cheaters because of the locker room tour.
If they throw Izzo in there do they not also have to throw Keady in there? And yes, I did write that Purdue's violations were greater than a locker room tour. I'll stand by that. But in no way did I indicate that I thought Keady was a egregious cheater and deserved to be in that group.
That Andy, is the point. Izzo can be slammed for a lot of stuff but the locker room tour does not mean that he is a cheater. I believe the same is true with keady. The Purdue violations did not make one of the cheaters we like to go on about. To claim he is or Izzo is solely on the basis of the locker room tour diminishes the truly bad impact that the cheaters are having.
I would also add that the NCAA needs to spend more time following the big $ payments and less time defining what toppings make a bagel a meal instead of a snack.
Does the NCAA consider soup at Mendy’s to be a meal?
Why are you now bringing up a locker room tour? No one else was discussing it. The discussion was about breaking rules and paying for the high school team's meal. You said it was OK, and you even thought Izzo should skirt the rule by having someone else pay it, then let Izzo reimburse them. You must recognize how shady that is, which is why you choose to change the subject to a locker room tour.
And this is the problem. The rules that you think are OK to be broken just aren't that complicated. But you have to spend so much effort to explain why it's OK for Izzo to break them, then it just is not OK. And you obviously know it.
If Foster Wonders blows up during his junior or senior year at Iron Mountain and ends up at MSU, will you still believe that it was OK for Izzo to knowingly break the rules and purchase a meal for Wonders and his team?
Ignorance of the rules is no excuse…even Knight knew back in his day that he had to get permission to watch his son play a HS basketball game!
Andy,
Again I suggest you read what I wrote. Here is the first para from the first post I made:
"I am not an Izzo fan but I can imagine him saying to the compliance director “if taking these kids through the locker room is a violation when none of them have a chance of D1 ball then the rules are asinine. Deal with the violation I am taking them on the tour.”
I then went on to say I hope he reimburses Mooch for the meal.
I'll stand by that. If you want to think that makes me a supporter of breaking all rules then, so be it. I am not.
I do think there are various levels of rule breaking (maybe that's why some are called minor violations) and that Izzo's minor rule breaking does not in itself put him in the category of Self, Miller.............
I'll also stand by the question I asked for folks that believe that this is such a big deal. If this is such a big deal where does that put the violations Purdue had under Keady? Were they not larger than a locker room tour and a meal? And yes, I know the meal reimbursement did not occur. I only "hoped" it would.
I bring up Keady to point out that some folks are ok with rationalization of breaking rules and some rules being more important than others only when applies to their team.
I already answered. The answer is "no". The violations under Keady were not larger than a locker room tour and a meal. I summarized them for you and you continue to ignore what they violations actually were. You are the only person I see rationalizing anything when you tell us that the Purdue violations were far greater than the rules you hoped Izzo would break. You bring up Keady because you are rationalizing -- or you truly do not know what the NCAA penalized Purdue for doing.
The most egregious crime by Purdue in that entire episode was an assistant coach lying to the NCAA and telling the recruit to lie. No one is excusing it or rationalizing it. But the violation that he was denying and all of the other charges were locker room tour and meal level -- and pure fabrication.
Based upon the penalties the NCAA thought the PU violations were worse, and yes, I include lying to the NCAA as a violation, as did the NCAA.
If "no one" is in agreement with my thoughts why are the comments picking up likes?
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