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Carmody to ND.....

PU52Chevy

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Jul 18, 2006
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Best of luck to him and his decision.....

That moves Langford, Embery and E. Hunter up the offer chain for sure.......

One that I like that I wish the staff would get more involved with is Drew Peterson a 6ft 6/7in SG/SF from Illinois....has handles and reminds me of Robbie Hummel game.

Time will tell but at least the domino's are starting to fall......

Coach Painter will assemble a great class I am sure of young men who want to be Boilermakers!
 
Dont get your hopes up on Langford.
You're probably right Nat, but with Boogie playing with him on the USA19 Team and Langford hasn't said no to us yet...I will believe we still have a chance.

IMO players recruit and help get like minded young men to Purdue as much as the coaches do.

If Boogie and Langford have a good experience together at the event overseas it can only help.

But I hear what you're saying....

Boiler Up!
 
You're probably right Nat, but with Boogie playing with him on the USA19 Team and Langford hasn't said no to us yet...I will believe we still have a chance.

IMO players recruit and help get like minded young men to Purdue as much as the coaches do.

If Boogie and Langford have a good experience together at the event overseas it can only help.

But I hear what you're saying....

Boiler Up!

Yeah, i saw that. I think he ends up in a more guard friendly offense.
 
If this decision by Carmody causes Painter to move Langford up the priority ladder, there are real problems in WL right now.
Obviously everyone knows what I meant but no reason to turn my positive post negative......

With Carmody now out of the picture they can focus more on Langford (if they haven't been already) and E. Hunter (who got offered by Butler today) or go more aggressive after Embery......

When dominos fall it makes the outcome more clear.......

Maybe Carmody committing to ND is a good sign for Purdue.

Guess we just need to let it play out......Langford, E. Hunter and Embery all good players....
 
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Carmody would have been a good signing but I would rather have Hunter. Carmody is the first major 2018 prospect to sign elsewhere. Let's hope this board doesn't melt down like it did last year with Tillman, Jackson, Williams, Beatty, etc. Painter ended up signing a really good class in 2017, maybe that will calm some nerves for this year's recruiting cycle.
 
Scared all we will end up with is projects like this upcoming class (besides Eastern).
 
Obviously everyone knows what I meant but no reason to turn my positive post negative......

With Carmody now out of the picture they can focus more on Langford (if they haven't been already) and E. Hunter (who got offered by Butler today) or go more aggressive after Embery......

When dominos fall it makes the outcome more clear.......

Maybe Carmody committing to ND is a good sign for Purdue.

Guess we just need to let it play out......Langford, E. Hunter and Embery all good players....
I think Statey was just having some good-natured fun Chevy!
 
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Carmody would have been a good signing but I would rather have Hunter. Carmody is the first major 2018 prospect to sign elsewhere. Let's hope this board doesn't melt down like it did last year with Tillman, Jackson, Williams, Beatty, etc. Painter ended up signing a really good class in 2017, maybe that will calm some nerves for this year's recruiting cycle.
I like the hope...but the meltdowns will commence if the next commit is not to Purdue.o_O
 
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Carmody would have been a good signing but I would rather have Hunter. Carmody is the first major 2018 prospect to sign elsewhere. Let's hope this board doesn't melt down like it did last year with Tillman, Jackson, Williams, Beatty, etc. Painter ended up signing a really good class in 2017, maybe that will calm some nerves for this year's recruiting cycle.

Just curious, how do you define a "really good class in 2017"? 247 has us at 27, ESPN at 39, Rivals at 37, Scout at 31. Our average is 37. That feels pretty blah to me, so interested what makes you think this class is anything special outside of Eastern.
 
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Just curious, how do you define a "really good class in 2017"? 247 has us at 27, ESPN at 39, Rivals at 37, Scout at 31. Our average is 37. That feels pretty blah to me, so interested what makes you think this class is anything special outside of Eastern.

Exactly... Decent players... Lots of potential & I am very hopeful, but let's not overhype the 2017 class.

I would add though that classes aren't really defined until 3+ years later......a good class to me either wins the B10 or the B10 tourney.. 2014 did that. we will see about 2017....potential, but we will see.
 
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Let's hope this board doesn't melt down like it did last year with Tillman, Jackson, Williams, Beatty, etc.

If CMP goes 0 for 7 with Johns, Bingham, Williams. Jerome Hunter, Anderson, Bazley, Dowuona. . that mirrors what happened in 2017 & would be justified disappointment by fans in my mind... You can't get them all, but you need to land a couple of your plan A guys who will be your difference makers of the future.... . I wish CMP luck with 2018.....need improvement over 2017 IMO.
 
Just curious, how do you define a "really good class in 2017"? 247 has us at 27, ESPN at 39, Rivals at 37, Scout at 31. Our average is 37. That feels pretty blah to me, so interested what makes you think this class is anything special outside of Eastern.
Because many of us define it in relation to the needs of the program. I think Painter got most of what he needed in the new class. At least that's why I'm happy.
 
Because many of us define it in relation to the needs of the program. I think Painter got most of what he needed in the new class. At least that's why I'm happy.
Would you say we have greater needs for the 2018 class with the highly productive 2014 class exiting?
 
Would you say we have greater needs for the 2018 class with the highly productive 2014 class exiting?

I'm not Heller, but for myself the answer is absolutely. The 2018 class is much more important than the 2017 class because of all the experience departing after this coming season. I'm not going to have a "melt-down" over every recruit we don't get. But it is simply disingenuous to act like "misses" don't matter. The biggest area of improvement from CMP needs to be recruiting. 2018 class is very important. I'm optimistic he will get it done.
 
Given their size, athleticism and potential skill it's plausible that CE, Easter, Wheeler, and Harms could lock down the staring jobs from 2018 until they leave. Of the players I've seen being recruited I'd only project Langford as having a high probability of replacing those guys. The team really needs a physically imposing starting caliber power forward, depth at center, guard and a versatile 6th man type in 2018. I thought Carmody could have been a great sixth man, but their are plenty of other players that will be able to fill that role.
 
Just curious, how do you define a "really good class in 2017"? 247 has us at 27, ESPN at 39, Rivals at 37, Scout at 31. Our average is 37. That feels pretty blah to me, so interested what makes you think this class is anything special outside of Eastern.

2014 did that in large part because they were followed up in 2015 with Swanigan. You know....the first team AA we had.

I still think 2014 was a great class but if 2017 turns out just as good but we don't add a Swanigan type player to the mix then it's unlikely they're winning the Big Ten.
 
Given their size, athleticism and potential skill it's plausible that CE, Easter, Wheeler, and Harms could lock down the staring jobs from 2018 until they leave. Of the players I've seen being recruited I'd only project Langford as having a high probability of replacing those guys. The team really needs a physically imposing starting caliber power forward, depth at center, guard and a versatile 6th man type in 2018. I thought Carmody could have been a great sixth man, but their are plenty of other players that will be able to fill that role.

Bazley, Johns, Jerome Hunter, Williams, and Bingham would all have a chance at starting. Bingham would/should immediately start at the 4. Johns would likely start immediately as well. Williams is a true post and if he slimmed down, he could be like Biggie/Ward. Bazley/Hunter are some of the best SFs in the country. Could very easily slide into that 3 spot. It is all speculation considering there is still a lot of time between now and then. Carmody would have likely been a sixth man at first, but easily could have moved to start at the 3. Good size and athleticism along with a willingness to defend. Carmody is a player that I wanted, but there are others that would be more important to get. Bingham, Bazley, Johns, and J hunter are arguably the four best players we are still in the running for. Would love to see one and it would be a very good sign for Purdue if Painter lands two or more. It is frustrating to see Archie come in and offer everybody Painter has offered. I dislike that little leprechaun. Holtmann to IU didn't help either. '18 is a very important class with a lot of important battles. hopefully we can land at least 3 plan A guys and a late riser. Would love to get all topnchoices though.
 
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If CMP goes 0 for 7 with Johns, Bingham, Williams. Jerome Hunter, Anderson, Bazley, Dowuona. . that mirrors what happened in 2017 & would be justified disappointment by fans in my mind... You can't get them all, but you need to land a couple of your plan A guys who will be your difference makers of the future.... . I wish CMP luck with 2018.....need improvement over 2017 IMO.
How does 0 for 7 mirror 2017?? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Even if you don't like Haarms and Wheeler, you would at minimum have to say we were 1 for 7 in 2017 by signing Eastern.
 
Just curious, how do you define a "really good class in 2017"? 247 has us at 27, ESPN at 39, Rivals at 37, Scout at 31. Our average is 37. That feels pretty blah to me, so interested what makes you think this class is anything special outside of Eastern.
I would define a good class as a class with a potential All B1G player (Eastern) and two potential really solid starters (Haarms and Wheeler) and a great shooter (SS). I never said this was an elite class. But I do think it is a really good signing class that will significantly exceed the class rankings. My main point is that people on this board were thinking we would have a horrible class after we didn't land Jackson, Tillman, etc. and that did not turn out to be the case.

BTW, I am not in the know as much as others on this board, but word out of spring practice is that the program feels like they got a major steal in Haarms.
 
"BTW, I am not in the know as much as others on this board, but word out of spring practice is that the program feels like they got a major steal in Haarms."

Shhh! Purdue doesn't have any depth at the 4/5 ;)
 
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I would define a good class as a class with a potential All B1G player (Eastern) and two potential really solid starters (Haarms and Wheeler) and a great shooter (SS). I never said this was an elite class. But I do think it is a really good signing class that will significantly exceed the class rankings. My main point is that people on this board were thinking we would have a horrible class after we didn't land Jackson, Tillman, etc. and that did not turn out to be the case.

BTW, I am not in the know as much as others on this board, but word out of spring practice is that the program feels like they got a major steal in Haarms.
It would not surprise me with Haarms eventually made it to the NBA.
 
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How does 0 for 7 mirror 2017?? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Even if you don't like Haarms and Wheeler, you would at minimum have to say we were 1 for 7 in 2017 by signing Eastern.

OK 1-7 then. I have never been negative about these recruits in 2017. Said they hold alot of potential. Just lower probability, but hopeful high potential recruits in terms of being B1G difference makers. Never said I do not like them...Why put words in my mouth?

The 0-7 or 1-7 as you corrected, simply refers to the need of CMP getting a higher % of the guys that CMP first wanted. Can't get them all, but hopefully this year CMP lands 2+ of these plan A guys that he offers first........as this 2014 class is leaving, making 18 an essential class.

Ideally, in a Black and Gold dream land I would love to see CMP land 2 of Bingham, Bazley, Johns, J hunter, and coming down to reality.......if not 2 then 1 of them plus Anderson or THT, and then a 5 in Williams or Duwuona (sp) along with a combo guard.
 
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Bazley, Johns, Jerome Hunter, Williams, and Bingham would all have a chance at starting. Bingham would/should immediately start at the 4. Johns would likely start immediately as well. Williams is a true post and if he slimmed down, he could be like Biggie/Ward. Bazley/Hunter are some of the best SFs in the country. Could very easily slide into that 3 spot. It is all speculation considering there is still a lot of time between now and then. Carmody would have likely been a sixth man at first, but easily could have moved to start at the 3. Good size and athleticism along with a willingness to defend. Carmody is a player that I wanted, but there are others that would be more important to get. Bingham, Bazley, Johns, and J hunter are arguably the four best players we are still in the running for. Would love to see one and it would be a very good sign for Purdue if Painter lands two or more. It is frustrating to see Archie come in and offer everybody Painter has offered. I dislike that little leprechaun. Holtmann to IU didn't help either. '18 is a very important class with a lot of important battles. hopefully we can land at least 3 plan A guys and a late riser. Would love to get all topnchoices though.

Holtman and Miller will be going after the same players Purdue targets early. Add in the constant factor of programs like Michigan St, Louisville, Xavier, ND, and Michigan swooping in and recruiting this area just got a lot tougher for Painter and Purdue.

I do think Butler will drop off a little.(BoilerBulldog will shut down that comment right away though).

The timing of the Lutz hire is nice. His ties out West will help open up a wider net to recruit against schools we normally don't go head to head with.
 
How does 0 for 7 mirror 2017?? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Even if you don't like Haarms and Wheeler, you would at minimum have to say we were 1 for 7 in 2017 by signing Eastern.

In the interest of accuracy, it's more like 1 for 20. If you look chronologically at the Purdue offers for the 2017 class, you will get 20 deep before you get to the likes of Haarms, Wheeler, Sasha, etc. I would categorize this class as complimentary or developmental. There's a decent chance the core could be very productive as upperclassmen. But, outside of Eastern, I'm not expecting major contributions for a couple of years. Which is why the 2018 class is so critical. We need a couple of kids that can step in and play 20/25 minutes immediately. There was a lot of discussion that lack of PT was one of the primary reasons we didn't land some of the bigger fish in 2017. That should not be an issue for 2018. I'm hopeful Matt can land a couple of his "A" list guys.
 
In the interest of accuracy, it's more like 1 for 20. If you look chronologically at the Purdue offers for the 2017 class, you will get 20 deep before you get to the likes of Haarms, Wheeler, Sasha, etc. I would categorize this class as complimentary or developmental. There's a decent chance the core could be very productive as upperclassmen. But, outside of Eastern, I'm not expecting major contributions for a couple of years. Which is why the 2018 class is so critical. We need a couple of kids that can step in and play 20/25 minutes immediately. There was a lot of discussion that lack of PT was one of the primary reasons we didn't land some of the bigger fish in 2017. That should not be an issue for 2018. I'm hopeful Matt can land a couple of his "A" list guys.
There is no way it is 20. Obviously they didn't like Haarms as much as Jackson or Williams but I bet they liked him as much as Beatty, Tillman, and Haase. I don't think his later offer is a reflection on how much they liked him, but more on the fact that he was relatively unknown. Same with Wheeler - he was a late bloomer and most big programs didn't offer him until around the time we did.

It seems like we were really in the hunt for 3 elite players last year - Eastern, Jackson and Williams. For those players, we were 1/3. We were not in the hunt for 20 elite "A" players.
 
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Change the way you think. Look at a class's 4 year potential. Purdue's entire five man 2014 class is still there 4 years later. They'll get most of the minutes this year. How many members of Kentucky's 2014 class are still there? How many members of Kentucky's 2016 class are still there? This'll be the 3rd straight year Purdue is a legit championship contender using their 4 year plan.
 
Change the way you think. Look at a class's 4 year potential. Purdue's entire five man 2014 class is still there 4 years later. They'll get most of the minutes this year. How many members of Kentucky's 2014 class are still there? How many members of Kentucky's 2016 class are still there? This'll be the 3rd straight year Purdue is a legit championship contender using their 4 year plan.
Purdue isn't and hasnt been a championship contender the past three years, they wont be until they can consistently get top level talent. I like Painter but I don't think he is the right coach to take Purdue to the next level. Just an outsiders perspective.
 
Purdue was a popular final 4 pick in 2015. They lost in double overtime. Purdue was even better in 2016. They lost to a 1 seed who was playing less than an hour away from their home gym. Reality is different than your perception.
 
Purdue was a popular final 4 pick in 2015. They lost in double overtime. Purdue was even better in 2016. They lost to a 1 seed who was playing less than an hour away from their home gym. Reality is different than your perception.
Purdue was absolutely not a popular final 4 pick in 2015. They were better in 2016 but probably not even in the top 10 of teams that had a legitimate chance to cut down the nets. This is the reality, I like the Purdue program and Painter a great deal but it is what it is.
 
You can look at the class of 2014 positively or negatively. Haas and Edwards sought to enter the draft, but both were told to go back to school because, you're not NBA material. Neither PJ or Mathias are close to NBA material. Cline isn't getting any looks. Simply stated, we've got a bunch of players who are still here, because they are not good enough to play at the next level.

Many people here claim that Edwards and has will surely be drafted next year. There were people out of UW and Maryland who said the exact same thing about their star players. the reality is their players weren't NBA material either.

and a current look at our team, I don't see anybody on it who is or will be an NBA player. The closest would be eastern if he becomes a PG. the NBA doesn't need or want a 6'6 SF, and has plenty of quick combo shooting guards.

and admittedly that effects recruiting. A guy like Carmody who still has NBA dreams doesn't want to come to a school where he will be at most a 6th man for the next 2-3 years. That would be the same for all of the guards Painter is currently recruiting. outside of Langford, none of them are great enough to be one and done players. And none of them are probably great enough to be able to unseat Edwards or Eastern to earn a starting role. At best, they would be a platoon player and play 20-25 minutes. And that's a hard sell for any coach to go and recruit a top 150 player and tell them they won't start for another 2-3 years. And I doubt any elite guard wants to come here and play SF just because they are taller than 6'5.

Purdue's good recruiting is its worst enemy. We have good players, but not elite players. unlike UK, Painter was not able to tell/sell JJJ that he would be an immediate starter and replace Biggie. I imagine that was part of his sales pitch, but biggie's late announcement really hurt our recruiting opportunity for JJJ. the same could be said about Bowen. he didn't see immediate starting time at SF on Purdue's roster. And on offense, he would have been the #3 or #4 scoring option at best.

Ask yourself the question, If Bowen came to Purdue, would he start? probably not. Would he get more than 20 mins playing time a game? probably not. and o n the pecking order of shooting /scoring, where would he be? I'd say at best he'd be after Edwards, Mathias, and Edwards. and maybe Haas. many guys could handle this. But most top 50 players would not.

and i' m sorry, nobody ever believes the story al l positions are open, and you just need to beat out the player in camp. Eastern is far better than PJ, but as has been said many times by people in the know. PJ WILL be the starter. if I was a top 50 rivals player, I wouldn't want to go to a team where I'd sit on the bench for my first 2 years.

that's the good and bad of having good , but not elite players. Elite players look for holes and to immediately become a star or at least play for Duke or UK and use that as an excuse for not starting. if an elite player came to Purdue and didn't become a star his freshman year, he'd move on to someplace where he would be - just ask Kyle Macy.
 
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related to above statement, but posed as a question. I don't follow ND basketball very much. I know they have a top 20-25 team. So I'll ask. in going to Notre Dame, would Carmody have a better opportunity to start as a freshman than he would have at Purdue? Would he have a better opportunity of playing 25+ minutes than at Purdue?

and when I ask this about Carmody, I'll apply my question to all of the guards Painter is currently recruiting in the 2018 class. What is their most likely role and minutes played as a freshman ? redshirt? 6th man? 15-20 mins? starter? 2nd option on offense?

Admittedly Mathias and PJ would be gone. But Eastern, Edwards and Cline would still be here. how big of a role would any of these class of 2018 guards play?
 
You can look at the class of 2014 positively or negatively. Haas and Edwards sought to enter the draft, but both were told to go back to school because, you're not NBA material. Neither PJ or Mathias are close to NBA material. Cline isn't getting any looks. Simply stated, we've got a bunch of players who are still here, because they are not good enough to play at the next level.

Many people here claim that Edwards and has will surely be drafted next year. There were people out of UW and Maryland who said the exact same thing about their star players. the reality is their players weren't NBA material either.

and a current look at our team, I don't see anybody on it who is or will be an NBA player. The closest would be eastern if he becomes a PG. the NBA doesn't need or want a 6'6 SF, and has plenty of quick combo shooting guards.

and admittedly that effects recruiting. A guy like Carmody who still has NBA dreams doesn't want to come to a school where he will be at most a 6th man for the next 2-3 years. That would be the same for all of the guards Painter is currently recruiting. outside of Langford, none of them are great enough to be one and done players. And none of them are probably great enough to be able to unseat Edwards or Eastern to earn a starting role. At best, they would be a platoon player and play 20-25 minutes. And that's a hard sell for any coach to go and recruit a top 150 player and tell them they won't start for another 2-3 years. And I doubt any elite guard wants to come here and play SF just because they are taller than 6'5.

Purdue's good recruiting is its worst enemy. We have good players, but not elite players. unlike UK, Painter was not able to tell/sell JJJ that he would be an immediate starter and replace Biggie. I imagine that was part of his sales pitch, but biggie's late announcement really hurt our recruiting opportunity for JJJ. the same could be said about Bowen. he didn't see immediate starting time at SF on Purdue's roster. And on offense, he would have been the #3 or #4 scoring option at best.

Ask yourself the question, If Bowen came to Purdue, would he start? probably not. Would he get more than 20 mins playing time a game? probably not. and o n the pecking order of shooting /scoring, where would he be? I'd say at best he'd be after Edwards, Mathias, and Edwards. and maybe Haas. many guys could handle this. But most top 50 players would not.

and i' m sorry, nobody ever believes the story al l positions are open, and you just need to beat out the player in camp. Eastern is far better than PJ, but as has been said many times by people in the know. PJ WILL be the starter. if I was a top 50 rivals player, I wouldn't want to go to a team where I'd sit on the bench for my first 2 years.

that's the good and bad of having good , but not elite players. Elite players look for holes and to immediately become a star or at least play for Duke or UK and use that as an excuse for not starting. if an elite player came to Purdue and didn't become a star his freshman year, he'd move on to someplace where he would be - just ask Kyle Macy.
Couldn't agree more, spot on evaluation.
 
The reality is Purdue's players are good enough to win a championship. Purdue underperformed in the tournament each of the last 3 years because Painter hasn't been a great coach. Calipari isn't a great coach either. That's why he only has one championship despite having coached seemingly the entire NBA all-pro team. Something that helped Calipari a lot last year and the year he won his only championship were lesser ranked recruit seniors who didn't have to rely on his coaching and always came up with big plays. Purdue has a lot of senior leadership this year. They're championship contenders.
 
I believe Calipari and Painter are opposites, but have a lot in common.

Calipari brings in talent. No question. and the majority of that talent leaves after one year, and because of injuries and sorting out talent, and his players wanting exposure, they never have a chance to build any chemistry and just try to win on sure talent and highlight reel plays and athleticism.

Painter brings in good players, but not elite or athletic ones. They could win big if the y forced their opponents to play their style of ball, rather than always playing the style of play of their opponents. Rather than playing small ball, Painter should have played a twin towers zone. I remember that old Kentucky team that had Bouie and somebody else. that was 6/10. I remember the old Celtics teams with Parish and McHale and Bird. They say the old style of basketball l is out. it's only out because everybody is playing small ball. I believe much like tiller, if you play a style of ball nobody can defend and is different, you will succeed I believe if you have two great guards who can shoot from outside, tall ball could beat small ball. but painter never wanted to play Swanigan and has in tandem. and he hates the zone.

And I n many of our defeats over the past 5 years, I've watched our leads slip away in close games, as the other team reached down and found a way to win, and we found a way to lose. We almost lost both the ISU and Vermont games. We were winning handedly, but ill timed substitutions allowed the other teams to catch up. With painter, we seldom have that killer instinct to put teams away and bury them. We always allow them enough life to come back. and for some reason, all of our 80+% FT shooters always miss in the last 2 minutes on one and ones. is that called choking? or too tired?

I've been down on Hazell (oh really?, I didn't know) but the same applies here. Hazell's worst coaching flaw was he never made any half time adjustments, and the other team saw something, adjusted and won. For the past 5 years against all opponents, Purdue always seems to have the same offense and the same defense. it works against some, but doesn't against others. And we never seem to adjust or mix it up during the game. I am not pro or con on using a zone defense. But I believe it should be in our arsenal of possible defenses. the same applies to using a press. I'd love to see Purdue with a full court press, and two twin towers acting as rim protectors should our press fail.

admittedly, I'm not a college coach. But that doesn't mean painter couldn't at least try some of these ideas for a portion of a game.
 
The reality is Purdue's players are good enough to win a championship. Purdue underperformed in the tournament each of the last 3 years because Painter hasn't been a great coach. Calipari isn't a great coach either. That's why he only has one championship despite having coached seemingly the entire NBA all-pro team. Something that helped Calipari a lot last year and the year he won his only championship were lesser ranked recruit seniors who didn't have to rely on his coaching and always came up with big plays. Purdue has a lot of senior leadership this year. They're championship contenders.
They're not good enough to win National Championships. But I guess well just agree to disagree. I certainly will be routing for the Boliers in the Big Ten.
 
For the past 5 years against all opponents,
Painter has done very well in the BIG. He adjusts to some of the best College coaches in the game day in and day out.
If Painter has a flaw it's not getting his kids to play loose.
I know it's not an excuse but Kansas and Cincinnati hit some really, really tough shots.
 
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