Burke being Burke

[mvboiler]

Interesting. You accuse other of being "subjective", then pose these statements. Sorry, but I just have to rise to the bait. I mean you no harm, and we could probably enjoy an adult beverage over this discussion, were it live.

First, who says "top guards" are turned off by his style of play? Did you gather that "fact" by just reading some of the more strange posts on this board? Is this just your opinion? How did you decide this was a "fact"? You do realize that most of the NCAA final four teams play pretty good defense, right? Most FF teams have 3 & 4 star guards, right? Almost all FF teams are efficient on offense. Man, I just can't get this argument to work right when I apply facts.

Second, how good does our 2016 class need to be? We have the starting point guard coming in from the #1 high school team in the country. He is a 4* player who may be a real sleeper. By the way, did you read the article on how the top 10 players rarely translate into tourney success? - statistically not a good idea to recruit these guys. But hey, who needs facts when random message board opinions support your arguments so much more conveniently.

You got me with the NCAA tourney success as a measure. I agree with you that we need to do better than we have. The real question is, are we on the right path to do so? The answer can only be an opinion - yours or mine - both have equal weight. We can agree to disagree about Painter and I am okay with that.

99% of opinions on a message board are subjective. Mine included. Your post above is full of them. Even hard data is subject to personal interpretation.

I've never called for Matt to be replaced. Because it is much better for Purdue if he wins. I honestly hope you are right. I like Carsen as a prospect and I am excited about the team this year. I hope Matt can deliver in '17 and keep the momentum going. My confidence level that can happen is on the low side for all the reasons I stated earlier. I remain hopeful though.

 

[punaj]

I saw a list of all time winning percentages in college basketball - I will find a link if people want to see it. Wooden was like #5. Painter was 143... all time. There are 350 division one teams each year and this data was going back at least to Wooden's coaching days. I'd say that means Painter is a pretty good coach. I'm happy he's at Purdue.

 

[BBG]

I think Purdue needs to fire Painter & hire a coach who actually cares about defense!

This has to be the funniest thing I have read from the fire Painter crowd. First it was he cared too much about defense now he doesn't care enough!

 

[SIBoiler2]

I saw a list of all time winning percentages in college basketball - I will find a link if people want to see it. Wooden was like #5. Painter was 143... all time. There are 350 division one teams each year and this data was going back at least to Wooden's coaching days. I'd say that means Painter is a pretty good coach. I'm happy he's at Purdue.

You're missing the important new rule that not even an alive Wooden would be hireable by Purdue since he is "from the Purdue Family".

 

[New Pal Boiler]

In hindsight this was pretty much a given after the Versyp extension. There obviously is a desire to allow the new AD focus on fixing the football mess. Perhaps getting the bball coaches tied up signals they are indeed targeting a "football guy".

This. If it was the year 2000, and we were selling out Ross Ade, I MIGHT have a slight hesitation with this. But it's not, and football has to be items 1,2,3 and 4 on the agenda now. And the AD can't afford to screw up the source of a lot of its profit, until football is generating the revenue it should.

 

[02Boilermaker]

This has to be the funniest thing I have read from the fire Painter crowd. First it was he cared too much about defense now he doesn't care enough!

Apologies if the intended tongue-in-cheek tone didn't come through in my post. I was just trying to somewhat satirically point out that judging a career based on how Purdue surrendered leads in those 2 tourney games might not be the best thing to do.

As already pointed out by many, the extension was a no-brainer & is standard operating procedure in the current NCAA landscape.

 

[BBG]

Apologies if the intended tongue-in-cheek tone didn't come through in my post. I was just trying to somewhat satirically point out that judging a career based on how Purdue surrendered leads in those 2 tourney games might not be the best thing to do.

As already pointed out by many, the extension was a no-brainer & is standard operating procedure in the current NCAA landscape.

Ahhh now your post makes sense.

 

[nagemj02]

The bottom line is Burke shouldn't have been given the opportunity to negotiate such matters. It should have been left to the newly appointed A.D. to decide whether or not Painter deserved a contract extension, not the lame duck A.D..

 

[Kesselschmiede]

The bottom line is Burke shouldn't have been given the opportunity to negotiate such matters. It should have been left to the newly appointed A.D. to decide whether or not Painter deserved a contract extension, not the lame duck A.D..

No the bottom line is you shouldn't be trying to push something you know nothing about.

 

[nagemj02]

I think this extension was based on the fact that Painter has a really good squad, somewhat young, and is in good shape on a lot of great recruits in 2017. With the schedule we have coming up looking like one of the tougher schedules in the NCAA this year, the talent we have currently, and potentially coming in, it just lines up nicely for Painter to get some more confidence from the university, basically saying that you're not in the hot seat because of one poorly played game in the NCAA Tournament last year. We like what we see from you, you snagged the first (or one of the very few) burger boy in nearly 20+ years (since G-Rob, right?), and seem to be heading in the right direction.



I'm okay with it. I like Painter, he's a Purdue guy, it's not like he's a horrible coach. The coach can only do so much, and although Purdue has great history as a basketball program, it's not like we've been known to dominate the NCAA, make FFs, E8s, even S16s on a regular basis. What we do is recruit hard-working 4 year kids, pride ourselves on defense, and do things the right way. Painter has done that near perfectly. It's just that people see Izzo, Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, all the blue blood programs (no IU, you're not one of them), and want what they have. We all want a top 5 team year in, year out, but it's not going to happen to Purdue, IU, Michigan, OSU, or any team not named UK, Duke, UNC, KU, or MSU. If you think a coaching change will do that, you're wrong. Hell, even Billy Donovan wasn't having the success he had in the late 2000s.

That's true, but why should you have to talk yourself into settling for second-best or mediocrity? Why can't you (not just you, but many Purdue fans in general) desire and believe that the program can do better? You don't have to accept this idea that Purdue men's hoops can only do so much. That's nonsense, IMO.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

That's true, but why should you have to talk yourself into settling for second-best or mediocrity? Why can't you desire and believe that the program can do better?

No one is settling for mediocrity with Painter who is an above average coach that is also trending things upward. Why can't you support this instead of wanting to change coaches every time they don't meet your emotional expectations?

You keep showing why you have no business suggesting coaching changes with each post. Seriously, like I said some of you just like to whine.

 

[nat100]

No one is settling for mediocrity with Painter who is an above average coach that is also trending things upward. Why can't you support this instead of wanting to change coaches every time they don't meet your emotional expectations?

You keep showing why you have no business suggesting coaching changes with each post. Seriously, like I said some of you just like to whine.

Trending up since when? He made two sweet 16s 6 years ago. Up would be an elite 8

 

[nagemj02]

You are missing the point. The point isn't that the extension prevents Painter from walking. Rather, the point is that the extension gives recruits tangible evidence that Painter intends to stay for a long time.

Painter has been recruiting several of these guys in the 2017 class for years. They aren't going to come to Purdue if they don't think that he is going to be the coach for long. Why would they? They all have plenty of options.

I understand that. My point is that I don't value the decision to extend his contract. I'm not afraid of what will (or won't) happen with 2017 recruits, so I don't think he needed to have his contract extended, solely due to those fears.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

Trending up since when? He made two sweet 16s 6 years ago. Up would be an elite 8

There is more to the season than just the NCAA tourney. You do know that right?

Good Lord you emotional self-entitled people are rather clueless. Maybe if you played organized ball like I have you'd have a better understanding. I'm just thank you in the vocal minority aren't in any position to make decisions. Purdue would be in the bottom of the rankings and the laughing stock of the conference.

 

[BBG]

 

[nagemj02]

Can't we stop being afraid of differing opinions? This is a reality of not just arbitrary things like message boards, but the world in general. You're never going to have everyone agreeing on everything (imaginable). Don't expect everyone to agree (short-term or long-term). It's human nature to change and evolve, not remain the same for the span of an average lifetime.

 

[nat100]

There is more to the season than just the NCAA tourney. You do know that right?

Good Lord you emotional self-entitled people are rather clueless. Maybe if you played organized ball like I have you'd have a better understanding. I'm just thank you in the vocal minority aren't in any position to make decisions. Purdue would be in the bottom of the rankings and the laughing stock of the conference.

Who is emotional? I stated pure fact. You resort to that when you have no answer

 

[BBG]

Can't we stop being afraid of differing opinions? This is a reality of not just arbitrary things like message boards, but the world in general. You're never going to have everyone agreeing on everything (imaginable). Don't expect everyone to agree (short-term or long-term). It's human nature to change and evolve, not remain the same for the span of an average lifetime.

Didn't even remotely say not to have differing opinions. But when neither side is going to listen and threads always spiral in to the dirt, what is the point?

This thread is a perfect example of the downward spiral, but it comes across as flaimbait anyway. So I guess it was foolish of me to expect anything different. It goes both ways nag, you want to have differing opinions then you should also accept the rebuttal. Same goes for Kessel and the others on their side of the fence.

There is a reason that a mass exodus of posters took place a while ago and more and more the majority of discussions over things don't happen here. It's because a civil worthwhile conversation simply can't take place because sooner or later (more often sooner) someone comes along and craps all over the thread.

I've also said I have no problem with you or anyone else wanting Painter fired. It's your right to have that opinion and I am not going to try and change it. Just as it is my right o feel indifferent about the whole situation because regardless, Painter isn't going anywhere as long as he continues to win and makes the occasional deep run. That isn't settling for mediocrity, that isn't giving up that is merely a reality for Purdue basketball form my point of view.

 

[SIBoiler2]

That's true, but why should you have to talk yourself into settling for second-best or mediocrity? Why can't you (not just you, but many Purdue fans in general) desire and believe that the program can do better? You don't have to accept this idea that Purdue men's hoops can only do so much. That's nonsense, IMO.

Give me a list of 5 current coaches that you would not label mediocre and would accept a Purdue job offer.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

The bottom line is Burke shouldn't have been given the opportunity to negotiate such matters. It should have been left to the newly appointed A.D. to decide whether or not Painter deserved a contract extension, not the lame duck A.D..

He's still the AD and it's his job to negotiate the contract extension. Not doing so would be irresponsible and damaging to the program.

Burke cannot act on his own on this. The contract requires board approval and the extension certainly would not have happened without Mitch Daniels' support.

 

[nat100]

He's still the AD and it's his job to negotiate the contract extension. Not doing so would be irresponsible and damaging to the program.

Burke cannot act on his own on this. The contract requires board approval and the extension certainly would not have happened without Mitch Daniel's support.

Extension is okay. If the buyout language was retained, I find that highly objectionable

 

[nagemj02]

Give me a list of 5 current coaches that you would not label mediocre and would accept a Purdue job offer.

1. Ben Howland (Mississippi State)
2. Rick Byrd (Belmont)
3. Linc Darner (Green Bay)
4. Greg Kampe (Oakland)
5. Matt Driscoll (North Florida)

 

[BBG]

1. Ben Howland (Mississippi State)
2. Rick Byrd (Belmont)
3. Linc Darner (Green Bay)
4. Greg Kampe (Oakland)
5. Matt Driscoll (North Florida)

Not a bad list, but outside of Linc (maybe) I can't see any one of them coming to Purdue to coach. And personally I don't think LInc would be an upgrade over Painter anyway.

But just my 2 cents and I'll leave it at that.

 

[nagemj02]

Didn't even remotely say not to have differing opinions. But when neither side is going to listen and threads always spiral in to the dirt, what is the point?

This thread is a perfect example of the downward spiral, but it comes across as flaimbait anyway. So I guess it was foolish of me to expect anything different. It goes both ways nag, you want to have differing opinions then you should also accept the rebuttal. Same goes for Kessel and the others on their side of the fence.

There is a reason that a mass exodus of posters took place a while ago and more and more the majority of discussions over things don't happen here. It's because a civil worthwhile conversation simply can't take place because sooner or later (more often sooner) someone comes along and craps all over the thread.

I've also said I have no problem with you or anyone else wanting Painter fired. It's your right to have that opinion and I am not going to try and change it. Just as it is my right o feel indifferent about the whole situation because regardless, Painter isn't going anywhere as long as he continues to win and makes the occasional deep run. That isn't settling for mediocrity, that isn't giving up that is merely a reality for Purdue basketball form my point of view.

Your opinion of people "not listening" and threads "spiral(ing) in to the dirt" is just that, your opinion. I'm "listening" and I'm sure others are as well. I feel like I'm learning things from this thread that I wouldn't have without starting it. I think you're just afraid of confrontation and conflict and always want people to like you, so you don't want to "upset the apple cart", even if some clarity comes out of it.

 

[nagemj02]

Not a bad list, but outside of Linc (maybe) I can't see any one of them coming to Purdue to coach. And personally I don't think LInc would be an upgrade over Painter anyway.

But just my 2 cents and I'll leave it at that.

Why don't you think they would come to Purdue? What are your reasons behind that opinion?

 

[BBG]

I think you're just afraid of confrontation and conflict

I have enough scars and memories from life that pretty much make a mockery of your statement above. If anything I don't have a high enough opinion of you for your comments to get me riled up or engage in the "conflict" you are seeking because I know how it will end up. You will get bent out of shape like you are now and make some ridiculous and unfounded statement like I bolded above. I was trying to have a civil conversation and look what YOU turned it in to, the same thing you always do when anyone offers a rebuttal of any kind to anything you are saying. The response above is a perfect example of that.

And don't kid yourself, I've said this a thousand times, I couldn't care less if people "like" me on an internet forum. My life isn't that meaningless to warrant such a need. Sorry to disappoint you.

I'm sorry you have fallen from the way you used to post, hopefully one day you'll get that persona back again. Until then, I'll just stop interacting with you since it gets you so worked up. I wish you well but I suspect you will respond with some other derogatory comment instead of trying to have a good conversation about things. Your choice nag, but again I do truly wish you well.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

Your opinion of people "not listening" and threads "spiral(ing) in to the dirt" is just that, your opinion. I'm "listening" and I'm sure others are as well. I feel like I'm learning things from this thread that I wouldn't have without starting it. I think you're just afraid of confrontation and conflict and always want people to like you, so you don't want to "upset the apple cart", even if some clarity comes out of it.

The whiniest person on here making a post like this is the definition of irony. You need to get laid, like right now.

 

[SIBoiler2]

The whiniest person on here making a post like this is the definition of irony. You need to get laid, like right now.

Hillary says he can be whiny as long as really didn't intend to.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Extension is okay. If the buyout language was retained, I find that highly objectionable

Like any contract negotiation, there's give and take, but I agree that it's Burke's responsibility to negotiate a good deal for the University. I'm ok with him agreeing to a somewhat generous buyout in exchange for other concessions as long as the deal is fair given Painter's accomplishments (which probably rank about fourth or fifth highest in the Big Ten at this time) and that Burke has Daniels' support before agreeing to contract terms.

 

[nat100]

Like any contract negotiation, there's give and take, but I agree that it's Burke's responsibility to negotiate a good deal for the University. I'm ok with him agreeing to a somewhat generous buyout in exchange for other concessions as long as the deal is fair given Painter's accomplishments (which probably rank about fourth or fifth highest in the Big Ten at this time) and that Burke has Daniels' support before agreeing to contract terms.

Fair buyout is fine. The current contract guarantees all remaining payments for the remainder of the contract. I think that is egregious.

 

[BuilderBob6]

That's true, but why should you have to talk yourself into settling for second-best or mediocrity? Why can't you (not just you, but many Purdue fans in general) desire and believe that the program can do better? You don't have to accept this idea that Purdue men's hoops can only do so much. That's nonsense, IMO.

Please stop telling me and others that support the current staff that we are settling........that mediocrity is ok with us. We believe Painter can and will do better. You aren't the only Purdue fan that desires more. We just have differing opinions on how to accomplish it.
We all have our opinions and are entitled to them..........but when you start telling me what I want out of the program you are crossing over to making judgments about something you know nothing about.......not exactly breaking new ground for you. You don't like Matt and think he's reached his ceiling, that's fine. But don't freakin tell me that because I support him I don't want more out of this program.

 

[BoilerBiker]

There is more to the season than just the NCAA tourney. You do know that right?

Good Lord you emotional self-entitled people are rather clueless. Maybe if you played organized ball like I have you'd have a better understanding. I'm just thank you in the vocal minority aren't in any position to make decisions. Purdue would be in the bottom of the rankings and the laughing stock of the conference.

regular seasons are important, but it is still preparation for the more important tourney/playoffs.
college football, due to it's structure, is likely the biggest exception (some racing series also i guess).
and the men's tourney is maybe the most showcased of all sports, and pivotal to much of the ncaa's annual revenue.

 

[nagemj02]

Please stop telling me and others that support the current staff that we are settling........that mediocrity is ok with us. We believe Painter can and will do better. You aren't the only Purdue fan that desires more. We just have differing opinions on how to accomplish it.
We all have our opinions and are entitled to them..........but when you start telling me what I want out of the program you are crossing over to making judgments about something you know nothing about.......not exactly breaking new ground for you. You don't like Matt and think he's reached his ceiling, that's fine. But don't freakin tell me that because I support him I don't want more out of this program.

Do you believe that he will have coached a team that advanced past an NCAA Tournament Regional Semi-Final (Sweet Sixteen) by the end of his tenure at Purdue?

 

[nagemj02]

I have enough scars and memories from life that pretty much make a mockery of your statement above. If anything I don't have a high enough opinion of you for your comments to get me riled up or engage in the "conflict" you are seeking because I know how it will end up. You will get bent out of shape like you are now and make some ridiculous and unfounded statement like I bolded above. I was trying to have a civil conversation and look what YOU turned it in to, the same thing you always do when anyone offers a rebuttal of any kind to anything you are saying. The response above is a perfect example of that.

And don't kid yourself, I've said this a thousand times, I couldn't care less if people "like" me on an internet forum. My life isn't that meaningless to warrant such a need. Sorry to disappoint you.

I'm sorry you have fallen from the way you used to post, hopefully one day you'll get that persona back again. Until then, I'll just stop interacting with you since it gets you so worked up. I wish you well but I suspect you will respond with some other derogatory comment instead of trying to have a good conversation about things. Your choice nag, but again I do truly wish you well.

Haha, I'm not bent out of shape. I'm just calling it like I see it. You and 4sure really do use that as your fall-back retort when you don't want to acknowledge comments made about yourselves or your opinions. Your post history seems to contradict the idea that you "don't care" what others think about you on this board. You're always trying to be "peacemaker" or "just one of the guys that suggests to have a beer", even when the thread doesn't warrant it. I didn't say anything derogatory. It's my educated impression of you on here, based on your post history. If you can't handle someone giving an honest opinion about you, maybe message boards aren't for you. Some people don't like to accept truths about themselves, even if it's just little things.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Do you believe that he will have coached a team that advanced past an NCAA Tournament Regional Semi-Final (Sweet Sixteen) by the end of his tenure at Purdue?

YES!!!

 

[nagemj02]

YES!!!

Okay, that's good to know, but I was asking Bob The Builder.

 

[purdue4sure]

The bottom line is Burke shouldn't have been given the opportunity to negotiate such matters. It should have been left to the newly appointed A.D. to decide whether or not Painter deserved a contract extension, not the lame duck A.D..

The bottom line is it can only help Purdue, whether you are for or against Painter. Think about.

 

[purdue4sure]

Haha, I'm not bent out of shape. I'm just calling it like I see it. You and 4sure really do use that as your fall-back retort when you don't want to acknowledge comments made about yourselves or your opinions. Your post history seems to contradict the idea that you "don't care" what others think about you on this board. You're always trying to be "peacemaker" or "just one of the guys that suggests to have a beer", even when the thread doesn't warrant it. I didn't say anything derogatory. It's my educated impression of you on here, based on your post history. If you can't handle someone giving an honest opinion about you, maybe message boards aren't for you. Some people don't like to accept truths about themselves, even if it's just little things.

LOL! And once again you call me out in a thread where I had not posted. I'm flattered.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Do you believe that he will have coached a team that advanced past an NCAA Tournament Regional Semi-Final (Sweet Sixteen) by the end of his tenure at Purdue?

If you use deductive reasoning, I believe I have answered that question. "Painter can and will do better" means he will go farther in the dance than he has before.

 

[nagemj02]

If you use deductive reasoning, I believe I have answered that question. "Painter can and will do better" means he will go farther in the dance than he has before.

Ok, but my question still stands: Do you envision any specific round that a Purdue team will further advance to in the NCAA Tourney under CMP or are you just hoping that they'll magically do better with no specifics or details involved in your reasoning? You avoided the direct question.