Yea and I'm sure I can find clips and games to back up my point too. The difference here is that I understand this isn't about one game or one play. It's a PLAYER OF THE YEAR award and once again you show that you just don't get it.
Biggie vs Happ
- Thread starter iramsey
- Start date
Yea and I'm sure I can find clips and games to back up my point too. The difference here is that I understand this isn't about one game or one play. It's a PLAYER OF THE YEAR award and once again you show that you just don't get it.
I'm not trying to rationalize poor defense just saying there are lots of factors in play as well as being coached not to foul and remain in the game.
Your entire argument goes against the statement about it not being about one game or play and being player of the year because Biggie has been more consistent the entire season and big ten season. It's obvious that you are the one who does not get it.
Yea. He's been consistent in points and rebounds....the things you want to focus solely on. He's also been consistently poor defensively and consistent in turning the ball over with regularity...things you avoid because you're a Purdue fan and blindly will argue for him.
Also, Wisconsin has been more consistent in winning games they should win. Winning is important here too. Go watch the Wisconsin/Rutgers game and how Happ took over to make sure that the Badgers didn't get that bad loss and compare it to Swanigan down the stretch against Iowa or Nebraska.
How often is Happ handling the ball away from the basket? How often is he knocking down shots outside of 5 feet? Of course Biggie is going to have more to's than him. He actually dribbles the ball more than just catching it in the post. I bet you nitpick Russell Westbrooks numbers also complaining about his high amount of to's while ignoring the rest of his contributions. I can see how Biggie's 55% from the field, 50% from 3 and 80% from the line don't mean anything at all. Winning is important and Purdue beat them the 1 time they played and overall Purdue has played a tougher schedule both nonconf and conference.
The mere fact that you continue the debate is ridiculous...it is no contest...Swanigan wins the award going away, and it has nothing to do with the fact that he plays for Purdue and I happen to be a Purdue fan...but everything to do with the fact that he has been the best and most dominant player in the conference, never mind the most consistent.
Happ plays on the team with the best record at this point, and they may ultimately have the best record at the end, but that has nothing to do with whether or not they are the genuine best team...Purdue thumped them in West Lafayette, and they would be just as likely to thump them again in Madison if the opportunity were there, and they may thump them again in the BTT.
Biggie is not a great defensive player and he turns the ball over too much...which makes the fact that he is still so dominant in other phases of the game that he is recognized as not just the best player in his conference, but one of the best five in the entire country all the more impressive given those shortcomings.
He is dominant...in every game...and has been for the course of the season.
A case could be made certainly that if anyone other than Caleb was going to win the award, that Happ could/should/would be the next choice...if that is your point, so be it...but he is not better than Swanigan, and he is not going to win the award over Swanigan, nor should he.
If some Purdue homers want to continue to call my point of view ridiculous, I will rightly continue to defend it. I can be objective while still being a fan. Wish everyone could.
That doesn't make much sense. If Happ shot 70% from the line instead of the 51% he shoots now, it would add a whopping 21 points to his total for the year. That is less than 1 point per game. Are you saying less than 1 point per game is what is separating them?
You can say they are close if you want that's an opinion. But I think you are choosing the wrong criteria. He just doesn't get to the line enough for his % to make much difference.
You are not being objective. You are being a contrarian for the sake of it because you for some reason have issue with Purdue fans having pride towards one of their players who is the best player in the conference and has been so from the very first game up to this point.
Yea Purdue won the game they played at Purdue as you would expect similar teams to win on their homecourt. DG10 seems to think we'd for sure win in Madison and I'm not sure we can make that assumption. I do know that when your only conference loss halfway through the season is a road loss to another top 20 team, that's not a bad thing. We may have a higher ceiling than them but they have handled their business while we have not always done so. I find it ironic that people are so willing to bitch about Painter when it comes to those 3 bad losses but want to pretend they don't exist when it comes to Swanigan.
As for Westbrook, I could give two $h!+$ about the NBA so I certainly don't nitpick him or anyone else at that level. I just don't care.
If he shot 70% from the line I'd certainly feel a ton better about him having the ball in his hands at the end of a game if I were a Wisconsin fan and that would probably pull him even with Swanigan in my mind who I don't trust in the same situation either.
Because he shoots 50% free throws, I can say I'm equally uncomfortable with both players in end-of-game situations. There's a reason there was a thread on this board after the Maryland game expressing that they were actually glad that Caleb was out of the game for the last possession. Many Purdue fans are uncomfortable with the offense running through him in a do-or-die possession.
Happ just doesn't draw fouls. I don't think shooting 70% is going to make him a different player. He just isn't a contact player. If you think he's that close to Caleb then so be it, I just think that's a strange stat to make your distinction on when he shoots so few of them, including the end of the game.
I know at the end of their game against Rutgers and Wisconsin needing a basket to get to OT I was screaming at my TV for Rutgers to foul him because I thought the odds of him knocking down 2 free throws (50% and needs to hit 2) was far less than him converting from the field (where he shoots 60% and only needs to hit one). That's a pretty big knock in my mind and is the main reason I wouldn't give him my nod for POTY over Swanigan. I'm not afraid for Caleb to be on the floor down the stretch, just for us to be running our offense through him in a must-score possession.
i think CS would likely get the nod today too, i think he is 'most valuable' to his respective team.
(although would that be an additional difference in verbiage to clarify between conference POY and say nba MVP ?!)
1. subjectively, i do think final conf. standings/rank can play a role in voters' eyes.
2. objectively, happ likely remains a strong contender though based on these aggregate stats:
player efficiency rating:
1. Happ: 35.3
2. Swanigan 26.9
3. Thompson 26.4
box +/-
1. Happ: 18.1
2. Baer: 10.8
3. Swanigan: 10.6
(i think this is what TC is pointing to above, sorry if redundant)
(although would that be an additional difference in verbiage to clarify between conference POY and say nba MVP ?!)
1. subjectively, i do think final conf. standings/rank can play a role in voters' eyes.
2. objectively, happ likely remains a strong contender though based on these aggregate stats:
player efficiency rating:
1. Happ: 35.3
2. Swanigan 26.9
3. Thompson 26.4
box +/-
1. Happ: 18.1
2. Baer: 10.8
3. Swanigan: 10.6
(i think this is what TC is pointing to above, sorry if redundant)
