Biggie and The League

[77 grad]

Biggie's Big Ten peers Diamond Stone and Dayonta Davis went NBA after their freshmen years.

Stone is averaging 2 points and 0.8 rebounds in 4 minutes per game played for the LA Clippers.

Davis is averaging 1.9 points and 2 rebounds in 7.3 minutes for the Memphis Grizzlies.

Biggie, who stayed at Purdue, is a Big Ten Player of the Year candidate averaging 19.1 points and a nation-leading 12.8 rebounds in 32 minutes played per game.

Do you think he made a good choice?

 

[asby]

Of course he made the right choice.. But there was a chance he wouldn't even have been drafted. I still have only found one board that has him listed for this draft. While i think he is a great college player. I just don't think he has the size or athletic ability for the NBA. I hope i am wrong and he has a long NBA career. But i just don't see him being able to bang in the paint with guys bigger and more athletic than him. And he isn't really a stretch 4 either.

 

[77 grad]

I have heard that too, asby. Too small for the post, not quick or athletic enough to play 4 in the league. Stone and Davis are sitting a lot, but they are cashing in and are learning.

That said, I think Biggie -- with his work ethic, skills and relentless desire to win and improve -- will create his own space and value in the NBA.

Selfishly, I want him to stay all four years at Purdue. Realistically, whoever he plays for next will be happy with the young man they get.

 

[klmLB]

Of course, he made the right choice to come back!

Apologies in advance for the long post.

I thought last year, Biggie could be a 3 or 4 year college player. I also thought that he lacked the athleticism to be a legit NBA player and also thought that improving your athleticism is one of the hardest things anyone can do (to clarify, you can improve strength, but it is really difficult to improve your first step and lateral quickness).

However, seeing the transformation he made this year and observing his determined attitude towards his own improvement - he's erased any and all doubts that I had last year. I'm a Biggie believer!

I believe that NBA brass will believe in his NBA future too. We're starting to see it in some mock drafts and, by season's end I think we'll see a lot more come around. I think Biggie is gone and that it is a good decision to go. I also think this can be good for Purdue in the long run. It's another selling point of how we can develop big men. It shows we have structure in place, the facilities, the strength coaches and behind the scenes staff to enable your improvement and development. You have to desire, if you put in the work and the time, you will get better at Purdue and win a LOT of games.

While Biggie still has improving to do in his first step and lateral quickness, he has undoubtedly improved in this area and there is no reason to think he won't continue to improve given his work ethic.

He has a beautiful touch and range to his jump shot and an unbelievable nose for rebounding. He uses his wide body and strength well to create space against his defender. He doesn't need to be quicker than his opponent to get a good shot (he had a couple of really nice baby hooks - with both left and right hands - in the MD game). He still struggles against elite athleticism, but I think he will get better in time at this.

I think his NBA comparison is Zach Randolph. He is not athletic by NBA standards (nor a great NBA defender, but a solid one), but is a strong and wide body who is skilled in shooting and passing. He has had a long and successful NBA career and I think Biggie could be similar.

 

[boilermaker75]

His rebounding should guarantee a long NBA career, just like Dennis Rodman. But he will be a much higher scorer than Rodman ever was.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

His rebounding should guarantee a long NBA career, just like Dennis Rodman. But he will be a much higher scorer than Rodman ever was.

As crazy and as much of a loose cannon that he was, Rodman was an exceptional defender in addition to his rebounding.

I still think there's a place for CS with the right opportunity.....can't help but root for the guy, and his attitude and guidance/support from Rosie Barnes is a huge plus.

 

[syc70]

Rodman & Swanigan comparison. Wow. Rodman was a freak athlete @ 6'8 who could run the floor & defend 4 positions. Swanigan is a below average athlete, who struggles defensively.

In my opinion, Swanigan has to develop into a pic & pop/roll guy in the mold of Karl Malone. Malone became automatic from 17' & in + he he ran the floor like no other. He also had the ultimate PG as a partner too. Swanigan us not an outstanding shooter (but getting better). He will not be able to score on the block in the NBA game.

 

[TC4THREE]

If Swanigan was in as good a spot to get drafted in the NBA he would be on someone's bench right now or in a developmental league probably with scant production but some money in his bank account. He made the best decision for himself ...especially if he can sneak into the first round.... but I think if he thought he could have been drafted where either Davis or Stone was he wouldn't have come back. They said as much when they were going through the Draft stuff last year.

 

[DrEss]

Is Biggie much smaller or of lesser skills than that of what Charles Oakley was/had? He had a good career, perhaps in a less offensive minded and/or athletic era though.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Rodman & Swanigan comparison. Wow. Rodman was a freak athlete @ 6'8 who could run the floor & defend 4 positions. Swanigan is a below average athlete, who struggles defensively.

In my opinion, Swanigan has to develop into a pic & pop/roll guy in the mold of Karl Malone. Malone became automatic from 17' & in + he he ran the floor like no other. He also had the ultimate PG as a partner too. Swanigan us not an outstanding shooter (but getting better). He will not be able to score on the block in the NBA game.

Jared Sullinger seems like a pretty good comparison to me.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Jared Sullinger seems like a pretty good comparison to me.

Sullinger was better on the block and defensively, candidly. Biggie's a better rebounder and shooter....JMO. JS was another one whose stock dropped, although the labor issues didn't help his decision either.

I like some of these comparisons, but part of the issue for CS is that the NBA is rapidly changing. 30 years ago, he'd be a potential All-Star.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Sullinger was better on the block and defensively, candidly. Biggie's a better rebounder and shooter....JMO. JS was another one whose stock dropped, although the labor issues didn't help his decision either.

I like some of these comparisons, but part of the issue for CS is that the NBA is rapidly changing. 30 years ago, he'd be a potential All-Star.

Sure, but Sullinger had a lot of the same defensive challenges in space and was one of the premier rebounders in college. I agree that Biggie has more range and that Sullinger's post footwork was better, but it's hard to think of a better comparison. Draymond Green has similarities as well, including much better outside shooting than Sullinger.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Sure, but Sullinger had a lot of the same defensive challenges in space and was one of the premier rebounders in college. I agree that Biggie has more range and that Sullinger's post footwork was better, but it's hard to think of a better comparison. Draymond Green has similarities as well, including much better outside shooting than Sullinger.

I agree in large part BDaddy...that's probably one of the better ones.....going back a ways, I had always thought Corliss Williamson for some reason. In a lot of ways, Biggie is unique and somewhat of a tweener. I wouldn't mind the Spurs going after him....Pop would know how to maximize CS' ability.

 

[Roeder]

Sullinger was better on the block and defensively, candidly. Biggie's a better rebounder and shooter....JMO. JS was another one whose stock dropped, although the labor issues didn't help his decision either.

I like some of these comparisons, but part of the issue for CS is that the NBA is rapidly changing. 30 years ago, he'd be a potential All-Star.

Totaly agree. Swanigan is cut from the same cloth as traditional power forwards like Oakley and Malone. 20-30 years ago he would have been a lock to have a great NBA career.

The problem is in today's NBA the power forward has evolved into more of a perimeter position where athleticism, defense, and versatile scoring ability define the position for the most part.

He still is too good of a rebounder not to stick somewhere.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Going back a ways as well I kind of see a little bit of Charles Barkley. Undersized for the position he played but a ferocious rebounder and incredibly hard worker. Given a roster spot this kid will work and will himself to a long career.

 

[32zone]

Biggie's Big Ten peers Diamond Stone and Dayonta Davis went NBA after their freshmen years.

Stone is averaging 2 points and 0.8 rebounds in 4 minutes per game played for the LA Clippers.

Davis is averaging 1.9 points and 2 rebounds in 7.3 minutes for the Memphis Grizzlies.

Biggie, who stayed at Purdue, is a Big Ten Player of the Year candidate averaging 19.1 points and a nation-leading 12.8 rebounds in 32 minutes played per game.

Do you think he made a good choice?

Davis is going to make $4 million over the next 3 years and Stone is going to make $1.5 million over the next 2 years. What you may perceive as a bad choice may have been a great choice for someone else.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Although we like Biggie and see his abilities.....the NBA guys have yet to see them. It is not unprecedented that the B1G player of the year gets snubbed by the NBA. Terence Dials of OSU was the B1G player of the year in 2005-06. He entered the draft and did not get drafted....and never played a minute in the NBA. Hate so much to see that happen to Biggie, who seems to be such a hard worker. When he does go.....I hope for his sake he is projected to the guaranteed contracts.

 

[lbodel]

Davis is going to make $4 million over the next 3 years and Stone is going to make $1.5 million over the next 2 years. What you may perceive as a bad choice may have been a great choice for someone else.

Well it's all about timing - and ceiling.

Swanigan is not going to be a center in the NBA. He'll need better quickness and a better outside game (including ball handling) to be great at the position he would be most suited for.

The question is what is his ceiling?

Diamond Stone just wanted to get to the NBA. If he stayed, he could have greatly improved his draft stock (from the second round to the first). So yeah, he may be getting $1.5 milliion/year - but if he waited a year, he could have been getting a lot more.

If he played another year in college, he obviously has a very good team coming back around him still, plus he could improve his ball handling, defense, quickness, etc. The question is will that dramatically change his draft status? He would have a good chance at national player of the year and a lot of accolades. But would that propel him to another level (i.e. from second round to a guaranteed contract in first round, from lower first round to lottery pick, etc.).

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

I think biggie has the will power and it is an underestimated quality in success. He will figure out a way and work hard to be successful. I wouldn't bet against him.

 

[32zone]

Well it's all about timing - and ceiling.

Swanigan is not going to be a center in the NBA. He'll need better quickness and a better outside game (including ball handling) to be great at the position he would be most suited for.

The question is what is his ceiling?

Diamond Stone just wanted to get to the NBA. If he stayed, he could have greatly improved his draft stock (from the second round to the first). So yeah, he may be getting $1.5 milliion/year - but if he waited a year, he could have been getting a lot more.

If he played another year in college, he obviously has a very good team coming back around him still, plus he could improve his ball handling, defense, quickness, etc. The question is will that dramatically change his draft status? He would have a good chance at national player of the year and a lot of accolades. But would that propel him to another level (i.e. from second round to a guaranteed contract in first round, from lower first round to lottery pick, etc.).

I don't know anything about his family's financial situation but it could be he was sitting on a lottery ticket that his family desperately needed - a lottery ticket that would've been ripped to shreds if he stays in college and blows his knee out.

 

[TC4THREE]

Diamond Stone just wanted to get to the NBA. If he stayed, he could have greatly improved his draft stock (from the second round to the first). So yeah, he may be getting $1.5 milliion/year - but if he waited a year, he could have been getting a lot more.

Sit a few million a year in front of almost any 19 year old kid who doesn't have a dime to their name and tell them that they can take that now or take a chance. Next year, that amount could multiply, stay the same, or be reduced anywhere all the way to nothing. Not many people would take that risk and, if you listen to what Barnes and Swanigan were saying last year, neither would they. They said they were willing to go even if they could get drafted in the 2nd round which is no guarantee. The only reason he is back at Purdue this season is because he desperately needed to improve his stock to get that money.

 

[lbodel]

Sit a few million a year in front of almost any 19 year old kid who doesn't have a dime to their name and tell them that they can take that now or take a chance. Next year, that amount could multiply, stay the same, or be reduced anywhere all the way to nothing. Not many people would take that risk and, if you listen to what Barnes and Swanigan were saying last year, neither would they. They said they were willing to go even if they could get drafted in the 2nd round which is no guarantee. The only reason he is back at Purdue this season is because he desperately needed to improve his stock to get that money.

I mean there's plenty of people who don't jump on the chance. Look at Ivan Rabb - he could have been drafted last year in the second round. Now he's probably a lottery pick this year.

 

[TC4THREE]

I mean there's plenty of people who don't jump on the chance. Look at Ivan Rabb - he could have been drafted last year in the second round. Now he's probably a lottery pick this year.

Second round is not even guaranteed money as I understand it. No surprise there. Most people wouldn't go if they were projected in the 2nd round. In fact, that's what Barnes/Swanigan were saying they would do leading into the draft last season which is why I find it disingenuous to heap praise on Swanigan for coming back when he probably would have gone if he had projected as highly as either one of those guys.

That said, I never said there weren't exceptions. Like any rule or generalization, you will find a few that are willing to pass on the sure money now in order to try to make more later. It seems to me though that those instances are far fewer than those that jump at the money, or even the possibility of money.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Totaly agree. Swanigan is cut from the same cloth as traditional power forwards like Oakley and Malone. 20-30 years ago he would have been a lock to have a great NBA career.

The problem is in today's NBA the power forward has evolved into more of a perimeter position where athleticism, defense, and versatile scoring ability define the position for the most part.

He still is too good of a rebounder not to stick somewhere.

I think he can make it as a backup big, assuming he can hit the NBA 3 consistently, and defend backup 5s. Looking at the Pacers for example: can he guard Al Jefferson or Lavoy Allen?

 

[Boilermaker]

Carl Landry seemed a bit undersized compared to his impact in the game. Playing very hard/smart can really help a player carve out a decent living in the league.

 

[BoilerStation]

I saw a comparison to Tristan Thompson once and I didn't hate it entirely. Thompson is a little quicker off his feet but smaller than Biggie. Biggie's offensive game is far and away better than Thompson's. Landry played below the rim quite a bit at Purdue then hit the league and was suddenly a dunking machine for a season or two. I don't think Biggie will ever be an all star and it may take multiple seasons before he would ever start but with some major focus on his agility and quickness off his feet he could turn into a huge value pick in the 2nd round. Look how far he's come over the past few years and who's to say one more year with the full resources of a NBA team won't take him even further. He has to go pro after this season because the longer you stay in college and the more information the NBA gathers on you the more it seems to hurt kids. He is very young and has shown he is willing to put in major work to improve his game. If I'm a championship caliber team picking in the late 1st round I would absolutely be looking at him just like I would have been looking at Hammons last year. He will probably be an average defender at best in the league but there is a place for a guy who is relentless on the offensive/defensive boards and who can shoot with decent range.

 

[ahhculdee]

I would say Zack Randolph or Draymond Green would be good comparisons.

 

[BoilerStation]

I would say Zack Randolph or Draymond Green would be good comparisons.

Draymond may win DPOY in the NBA...

 

[Do Dah Day]

Although we like Biggie and see his abilities.....the NBA guys have yet to see them. It is not unprecedented that the B1G player of the year gets snubbed by the NBA. Terence Dials of OSU was the B1G player of the year in 2005-06. He entered the draft and did not get drafted....and never played a minute in the NBA. Hate so much to see that happen to Biggie, who seems to be such a hard worker. When he does go.....I hope for his sake he is projected to the guaranteed contracts.

If he chooses, he could have a run overseas, the pay isn't that bad and the benes are awesome, but boy do the big guys shoot well ... He would be a three over there ... maybe a four ... but again, the money isn't bad and you get to have fun.

 

[lbodel]

Second round is not even guaranteed money as I understand it. No surprise there. Most people wouldn't go if they were projected in the 2nd round. In fact, that's what Barnes/Swanigan were saying they would do leading into the draft last season which is why I find it disingenuous to heap praise on Swanigan for coming back when he probably would have gone if he had projected as highly as either one of those guys.

That said, I never said there weren't exceptions. Like any rule or generalization, you will find a few that are willing to pass on the sure money now in order to try to make more later. It seems to me though that those instances are far fewer than those that jump at the money, or even the possibility of money.

Well, I think we agree then. I interpreted your comments as as long as there's a chance, take it (i.e. 2nd round). That being said, I'm not sure Swanigan would be a highly likely first round pick after this year either.

 

[TC4THREE]

Well, I think we agree then. I interpreted your comments as as long as there's a chance, take it (i.e. 2nd round). That being said, I'm not sure Swanigan would be a highly likely first round pick after this year either.

He may be inching in that direction but it seems like that is not a requirement for him. From their comments last year it just sounds like he wants to get drafted and not worried about the round or guarantee.

 

[ahhculdee]

Draymond may win DPOY in the NBA...

Yeah because he is one of the hardest workers in the NBA.

 

[dwhitebash11]

What about Tyler Hansbrough?

Not quite as good defensively, but similar offensive game. I believe he won 2 NPOY awards? Stayed all 4 years, drafted middle of first round.

 

[BoilerStation]

Yeah because he is one of the hardest workers in the NBA.

It doesn't matter how hard Biggie works he is never going to be up for defensive player of the year in the NBA. This isn't a knock on him because I think he will have a successful career in the NBA just a reality.

 

[cgnops]

Draymond may win DPOY in the NBA...

Ive said it a hundred times but Draymond was chubby and slow when he started at MSU, I think the comparison to Swanigan makes some sense. It wasn't clear what position Draymond would play in the NBA, concerns were primarily about his athleticism.

Strengths:
*Stat sheet stuffer
*Skilled passer
*Excellent rebounder
*Can score in the post
*Good ball handler
*Can shoot the 3
*Great understanding of the game

Weaknesses:
*Who does he defend?
*Doesn’t have great lateral quickness

Who I am talking about here? Caleb or Draymond?
Well, these statements were made regarding Draymond before he was drafted.....see link below
http://www.nba.com/draft/2012/prospects/draymond-green/