When first is last, expect a tumble

[qazplm]

Furst has 33 starts in his Purdue career, virtually all at forward for teams ranked as high as No. 1, so we know full well what he does when given time, just as his numbers still show. He’s certainly not been playing with the walk-ons at garbage time. He’s only being regarded and treated as such by fans who refuse to acknowledge actual production while merely parroting subjective observations that are grossly inaccurate.

When this team has struggled most, first look at Furst’s minutes and his performance.

For those happy with the showings at Rutgers, then consider another game -- Nebraska. That one only cost first place in the Big Ten and in the national polls. Purdue got beaten up inside and out and was blown out 88-72 by a middle-of-the-pack team. Gillis was great on the perimeter, making five threes for 16 points in his 29 minutes, but Edey got no help inside and was held to 15 points and seven rebounds. Kaufman-Renn was shut out, failing to get off even one shot from the field and missing his only free throw in his 15 minutes. He did have five rebounds. Gillis had just one. Furst had three rebounds and three points, making his only shot and only free throw, with no turnovers … but he got only six minutes.

Then there was Northwestern, a 92-88 loss in overtime. A defensive gem. Kaufman-Renn had three points and two rebounds in his 13 minutes, missing all three of his shots from the floor and half of his six free throws with three turnovers, while Gillis scored four to go with six rebounds and two turnovers in 29 minutes. Furst played only 11 of the 45 minutes yet also had four points and six rebounds … but with none of Purdue’s 17 turnovers.

Garbage time? Yeah, sure. Given more time, we’d see better results for the team.

Sure, and his career averages out to less than 5 rebs and 5 pts a game. I guess I'm confused, am I supposed to look at overall stats or just individual games you want to pick out? Can I pick out two games for Gillis?
So your argument is we lost not because Furst had only three rebounds and points, but because Gillis had 16 points? It was a blowout. NO ONE played well that game. Not Edey. Not the guards. And it wasn't because Furst didn't get more playing time. You act like Furst is the key to the entire team playing well and yet nothing the last three years remotely suggests that.

You clearly must be related to Furst or a family friend or something.

 

[Bruce1]

Much like Ethan, teams are sagging off Caleb and using that defender on Zach. So far he hasn't made them pay much.
Transfer or play big, big minutes.
Sure.

I think he will be here next year and we’re gonna see the Caleb we know is there. His time is coming.

 

[Born Boiler]

Sure, and his career averages out to less than 5 rebs and 5 pts a game. I guess I'm confused, am I supposed to look at overall stats or just individual games you want to pick out? Can I pick out two games for Gillis?
So your argument is we lost not because Furst had only three rebounds and points, but because Gillis had 16 points? It was a blowout. NO ONE played well that game. Not Edey. Not the guards. And it wasn't because Furst didn't get more playing time. You act like Furst is the key to the entire team playing well and yet nothing the last three years remotely suggests that.

You clearly must be related to Furst or a family friend or something.

By all means, do show some numbers. An actual Mr. Basketball is worth at least five takes.

While we’re at it, Gillis is now 6 and 4 for his career and Kaufman-Renn is 5 and 3. Up to date.

Whether using their stats per minute against the Big Ten or their performances in three games where Purdue struggled most, the fact stands that Furst is the best rebounder of the three. Gillis is better on the perimeter but proves too short inside, while Kaufman-Renn can score inside but struggles badly half the time. Purdue could have better production with Furst also sharing time at forward instead of being limited to a few minutes as the backup center. He can and should do both.

A 6-10 Mr. Basketball is being wasted, and the team sometimes suffers for it. That isn’t the way to impress prized recruits or avoid rubber legs in March.

Quality depth means nothing if you don’t use it. Now more than ever, use it or lose it.

 

[qazplm]

By all means, do show some numbers. An actual Mr. Basketball is worth at least five takes.

While we’re at it, Gillis is now 6 and 4 for his career and Kaufman-Renn is 5 and 3. Up to date.

Whether using their stats per minute against the Big Ten or their performances in three games where Purdue struggled most, the fact stands that Furst is the best rebounder of the three. Gillis is better on the perimeter but proves too short inside, while Kaufman-Renn can score inside but struggles badly half the time. Purdue could have better production with Furst also sharing time at forward instead of being limited to a few minutes as the backup center. He can and should do both.

A 6-10 Mr. Basketball is being wasted, and the team sometimes suffers for it. That isn’t the way to impress prized recruits or avoid rubber legs in March.

Quality depth means nothing if you don’t use it. Now more than ever, use it or lose it.

So you're hung up on him being 6-10 and a Mr. Basketball? Who can't average 5 and 5 through three seasons?

Recruiting is pretty darn good so prized recruits don't seem perturbed.

You must believe one of two things: Painter can't recognize talent, or he has some sort of grudge against Furst.

 

[Born Boiler]

So you're hung up on him being 6-10 and a Mr. Basketball? Who can't average 5 and 5 through three seasons?

Recruiting is pretty darn good so prized recruits don't seem perturbed.

You must believe one of two things: Painter can't recognize talent, or he has some sort of grudge against Furst.

Repeating, Gillis is now 6 and 4 for his career and Kaufman-Renn is 5 and 3. Up to date. Do show where you see sufficient greatness to dismiss one who performs better in the role?

And cease with the asinine assertions. I mean exactly what I say.

 

[qazplm]

Repeating, Gillis is now 6 and 4 for his career and Kaufman-Renn is 5 and 3. Up to date. Do show where you see sufficient greatness to dismiss one who performs better in the role?

And cease with the asinine assertions. I mean exactly what I say.

Except he doesn't perform better lol at most he performs roughly the same. I'm sorry the logical consequence of your assertions is causing you trouble though.

 

[boilerzz]

By all means, do show some numbers. An actual Mr. Basketball is worth at least five takes.

While we’re at it, Gillis is now 6 and 4 for his career and Kaufman-Renn is 5 and 3. Up to date.

Whether using their stats per minute against the Big Ten or their performances in three games where Purdue struggled most, the fact stands that Furst is the best rebounder of the three. Gillis is better on the perimeter but proves too short inside, while Kaufman-Renn can score inside but struggles badly half the time. Purdue could have better production with Furst also sharing time at forward instead of being limited to a few minutes as the backup center. He can and should do both.

A 6-10 Mr. Basketball is being wasted, and the team sometimes suffers for it. That isn’t the way to impress prized recruits or avoid rubber legs in March.

Quality depth means nothing if you don’t use it. Now more than ever, use it or lose it.

Mr Basketball is completely irrelevant to how much playing time he should be getting. Why do you keep bringing it up?

 

[Born Boiler]

Mr Basketball is completely irrelevant to how much playing time he should be getting. Why do you keep bringing it up?

Mr. Basketball is a state’s highest honor for an individual high school player. Landing one is a bonus in credibility to any program. Losing one does no favors to anyone involved. We have three who contribute greatly to the team when they play. I’d like to see things stay that way.

 

[Born Boiler]

Except he doesn't perform better lol at most he performs roughly the same. I'm sorry the logical consequence of your assertions is causing you trouble though.

So you finally noticed that Furst “performs roughly the same.” Yet, it was you who first insisted “Gillis is far and away playing better than Furst or TKR.” And it was you who claimed the statistically worst rebounder of the three was “very aggressive on the boards.” And you said “TKR better at rebounding” when in fact Furst gets more per minute. So then, why not play them “roughly the same” minutes? Or are you merely an unenlightened hater of one?

 

[boilerzz]

Mr. Basketball is a state’s highest honor for an individual high school player. Landing one is a bonus in credibility to any program. Losing one does no favors to anyone involved. We have three who contribute greatly to the team when they play. I’d like to see things stay that way.

Purdue will conti to get Mr Basketballs regardless of how much Furst plays.

Anthony Leal was Mr Basketball. Are you saying IU should have played him a lot more?

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Purdue will conti to get Mr Basketballs regardless of how much Furst plays.

Anthony Leal was Mr Basketball. Are you saying IU should have played him a lot more?

Leal played a lot tonight…career high 13!!! But all his 3s were wide open….iowa wasn’t worried about him. If teams get close to him, he can’t get the shot off. Cupps was also mr Ohio bball and he was also left open for a reason…but he hit it….only his 9th made 3 all year. He’s not good enough to be playing those types of minutes and if he is, not good for IU.…he reminds me of a young Ethan Morton. He can guard non athletic guards that aren’t quick, doesn’t look for his shot. Although Morton can at least take it to the hole and be somewhat of a threat there. Cupps…not so much, no explosiveness.

Sorry long way to say Mr “state” bball doesn’t always translate to D1 P5 bball.

 

[qazplm]

So you finally noticed that Furst “performs roughly the same.” Yet, it was you who first insisted “Gillis is far and away playing better than Furst or TKR.” And it was you who claimed the statistically worst rebounder of the three was “very aggressive on the boards.” And you said “TKR better at rebounding” when in fact Furst gets more per minute. So then, why not play them “roughly the same” minutes? Or are you merely an unenlightened hater of one?

I said, at most, which is commonly used rhetorically to say even if I accept your argument at face value it's still insufficient. Which of course means that even if one accepts your argument, it doesn't follow that playing Furst leads to any improved outcomes because "at most" the best your argument would show is they are interchangeable. But that's not your supposition now is it?

But I guess I shouldn't have expected you you to get that lol so that's my fault.

The stats THIS season show Gillis better at nearly everything. The eyeballs show him better at nearly everything. Almost no one on here agrees with you and Painter clearly doesn't agree with you.

You don't have stats, you don't have expert opinion (aka Painter) and you don't even have common collective opinion on your side, yet you keep talking like you have some premium on the facts and anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

But sure none of that is real, it's really that I secretly hate Furst. Lol and, apparently Painter too...or Painter is an idiot who can't see talent and who he should be giving more time to.

Pick one bud because the only other option is...you're wrong.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Mr. Basketball is a state’s highest honor for an individual high school player

So?

Anthony Leal was also Mr Basketball and he’s barely played for a crappy IU team.

 

[jdbrees922]

I happen to agree that Furst can and should play with Edey. Giving how much space Edey takes an elite rebounder on the other side would be good . No doubt he is the best rebounder of the 3, and Gillis is the best shooter. Renn is the post we should be playing through when Zach is not on the floor, together Renn and Edey sometimes get in each others way

 

[qazplm]

So?

Anthony Leal was also Mr Basketball and he’s barely played for a crappy IU team.

Obviously his coach hates him

 

[SIBoiler2]

Once in awhile you just have to open a thread to remember why you put someone on ignore.

 

[purduedavie]

I like Caleb, as a Frosh I thought he was a future NBA player. He hurt his foot, got Covid and hasn’t been the same for some reason. No doubt it hurts playing behind Edey, in limited minutes I think Caleb presses. He’ll likely get his chance next year as the starting Center, I hope he can find what he’s lost, not the same player he was.

 

[Born Boiler]

I said, at most, which is commonly used rhetorically to say even if I accept your argument at face value it's still insufficient. Which of course means that even if one accepts your argument, it doesn't follow that playing Furst leads to any improved outcomes because "at most" the best your argument would show is they are interchangeable. But that's not your supposition now is it?

But I guess I shouldn't have expected you you to get that lol so that's my fault.

The stats THIS season show Gillis better at nearly everything. The eyeballs show him better at nearly everything. Almost no one on here agrees with you and Painter clearly doesn't agree with you.

You don't have stats, you don't have expert opinion (aka Painter) and you don't even have common collective opinion on your side, yet you keep talking like you have some premium on the facts and anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

But sure none of that is real, it's really that I secretly hate Furst. Lol and, apparently Painter too...or Painter is an idiot who can't see talent and who he should be giving more time to.

Pick one bud because the only other option is...you're wrong.

Again, you’re all talk, no facts, no numbers, nothing. Only a thread-long trail of ignorant assertions, just a few repeated above, all proven wrong by performance stats. Over and over. “Far and away.” Now you even want to give all credibility to anonymous posters who share your sentiments and what you presume to know about the coach’s thinking over detailed listings of actual performances. Admit it. You just hate. It’s all you’ve got.

 

[Born Boiler]

Purdue will conti to get Mr Basketballs regardless of how much Furst plays.

Anthony Leal was Mr Basketball. Are you saying IU should have played him a lot more?

Apparently.

 

[Born Boiler]

Once in awhile you just have to open a thread to remember why you put someone on ignore.

And we missed your enlightenments, too.

 

[qazplm]

Again, you’re all talk, no facts, no numbers, nothing. Only a thread-long trail of ignorant assertions, just a few repeated above, all proven wrong by performance stats. Over and over. “Far and away.” Now you even want to give all credibility to anonymous posters who share your sentiments and what you presume to know about the coach’s thinking over detailed listings of actual performances. Admit it. You just hate. It’s all you’ve got.

You got me, I just hate Caleb. So what's Painter's excuse then?

 

[BoilerAndy]

Furst has 33 starts in his Purdue career, virtually all at forward for teams ranked as high as No. 1, so we know full well what he does when given time, just as his numbers still show. He’s certainly not been playing with the walk-ons at garbage time. He’s only being regarded and treated as such by fans who refuse to acknowledge actual production while merely parroting subjective observations that are grossly inaccurate.

When this team has struggled most, first look at Furst’s minutes and his performance.

For those happy with the showings at Rutgers, then consider another game -- Nebraska. That one only cost first place in the Big Ten and in the national polls. Purdue got beaten up inside and out and was blown out 88-72 by a middle-of-the-pack team. Gillis was great on the perimeter, making five threes for 16 points in his 29 minutes, but Edey got no help inside and was held to 15 points and seven rebounds. Kaufman-Renn was shut out, failing to get off even one shot from the field and missing his only free throw in his 15 minutes. He did have five rebounds. Gillis had just one. Furst had three rebounds and three points, making his only shot and only free throw, with no turnovers … but he got only six minutes.

Then there was Northwestern, a 92-88 loss in overtime. A defensive gem. Kaufman-Renn had three points and two rebounds in his 13 minutes, missing all three of his shots from the floor and half of his six free throws with three turnovers, while Gillis scored four to go with six rebounds and two turnovers in 29 minutes. Furst played only 11 of the 45 minutes yet also had four points and six rebounds … but with none of Purdue’s 17 turnovers.

Garbage time? Yeah, sure. Given more time, we’d see better results for the team.

I will say this: You make a much more compelling argument for Furst getting more minutes than the crowd insisting, "No Colvin, no FF".

 

[qazplm]

I will say this: You make a much more compelling argument for Furst getting more minutes than the crowd insisting, "No Colvin, no FF".

That's a mighty low bar.

 

[Born Boiler]

You got me, I just hate Caleb. So what's Painter's excuse then?

It’s the classic triangle. Or maybe a rectangle. Coach loves player. And another. Then another. Something has to give. The one in the middle is forced to duck out. Finally they all end up passed out at a big party in Berkeley and relive the ’60s.

Oops. Wrong thread.

 

[Born Boiler]

Once in awhile you just have to open a thread to remember why you put someone on ignore.

By the way, does the SI still stand for Sports Illustrated?

 

[qazplm]

It’s the classic triangle. Or maybe a rectangle. Coach loves player. And another. Then another. Something has to give. The one in the middle is forced to duck out. Finally they all end up passed out at a big party in Berkeley and relive the ’60s.

Oops. Wrong thread.

Wanna try again in English this time?

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

I think he will be here next year and we’re gonna see the Caleb we know is there. His time is coming.

I hope so, I've been preaching it for 2 years.