Anybody else think this game is winnable with AOC?

[DAG10]

Again, with removing the results that you don't like. We've been down this road before. A RB's stats are what they are. A QB's stats are what they are.

Well, in both cases, they are very misleading.

Plummer's 70+% completion rate is misleading in that he never throws the ball down the field...aside of one big run on a play where ND messed up, Doerue/Purdue did not have any success running the football, and, most importantly, it was completely incapable of running it when it needed to.

It is not a result that I don't like...it is a fact...Purdue did not run the football with any sustained success...it had a successful play that completely skewed the stats.

 

[DAG10]

Yeah Michigan state is better than I thought.

also.. Notre dame asked a question yesterday.. “if you take away bell and Durham, what else do they really have?”

I’ll be prepared for that question to keep getting asked .:

Was that a question that you had not already asked yourself?

 

[DAG10]

Plummer doesn’t see the field well or quickly at Notre dames level of play. The good news is I’m not sure we play another defense as big and explosive in the front 7 as ND

Yeah, good thing Toledo is off the schedule.

 

[DAG10]

Ohio State probably had a better DL. Suspect LB play tho. Michigan State seems to have a quality DL too and Mel Tucker is a better defensive coach than Brohm is an offensive coach.

those look like 2 very long days to me…

Ohio State probably had a better DL. Suspect LB play tho. Michigan State seems to have a quality DL too and Mel Tucker is a better defensive coach than Brohm is an offensive coach.

those look like 2 very long days to me…

ND has suspect LB play...and Purdue was not able to exploit that at all, in large part because the DL was so dominant against Purdue's OL.

Until/unless the OL can be even somewhat functional against even a decent DL, Purdue is going to struggle...and, against a good DL...it will really struggle.

 

[Beorik]

Well, in both cases, they are very misleading.

Plummer's 70+% completion rate is misleading in that he never throws the ball down the field...aside of one big run on a play where ND messed up, Doerue/Purdue did not have any success running the football, and, most importantly, it was completely incapable of running it when it needed to.

It is not a result that I don't like...it is a fact...Purdue did not run the football with any sustained success...it had a successful play that completely skewed the stats.

Well I can’t think of a single team that has had “sustained success” while not running the ball at all. Purdue ran the ball with a rb 25% of the time. You aren’t going to run less than that and have success long term. Coverage will get insanely good if teams realize you will not hand the ball off.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Was that a question that you had not already asked yourself?

No, but I don’t play against Purdue either. Who was the 5th best player on that defense?

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Yeah, good thing Toledo is off the schedule.

Lol here comes the Mac talent guy.. Notre dame was shooting Notre dame in the foot against Toledo

@SDBoiler1 wheres the outrage

 

[Purdue85]

Well, in both cases, they are very misleading.

Plummer's 70+% completion rate is misleading in that he never throws the ball down the field...aside of one big run on a play where ND messed up, Doerue/Purdue did not have any success running the football, and, most importantly, it was completely incapable of running it when it needed to.

It is not a result that I don't like...it is a fact...Purdue did not run the football with any sustained success...it had a successful play that completely skewed the stats.

no, there's nothing misleading about statistics. They are what they are.

I don't see where anyone is arguing Purdue ran the ball with success. Cherry picking statistics because they're favorable or because they're unfavorable is still cherry picking.

 

[DAG10]

Lol here comes the Mac talent guy.. Notre dame was shooting Notre dame in the foot against Toledo

@SDBoiler1 wheres the outrage

Notre Dame shot itself in the foot against Purdue...repeatedly.

 

[Purdue85]

Notre Dame shot itself in the foot against Purdue...repeatedly.

That's what happens during contests.

 

[DAG10]

no, there's nothing misleading about statistics. They are what they are.

I don't see where anyone is arguing Purdue ran the ball with success. Cherry picking statistics because they're favorable or because they're unfavorable is still cherry picking.

Yes, statistics are often misleading...statistics can be spun in ways (and often are).

I did not cherry pick any statistics...someone suggested that because Purdue averaged 4.5 yards a carry, that they were effective/adequate...and that was/is not the case.

Purdue did not run the ball effectively...and, Purdue will not run the ball effectively against any remotely capable front that it faces...they are overmatched as a OL, they lack talent at the RB position and playcalling does not help the run game in any way either.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Notre Dame shot itself in the foot against Purdue...repeatedly.

They did but they also weren’t running exotic stuff on defense for no reason and completely blowing coverages

Again, you’re the guy who wants to make claims about 2018 but for the love of god still won’t tell me who the 5th best player on the defense was, who the second best linebacker was, and whether or not Higgins and reviere should have even been backups in the big ten

 

[Beorik]

Yes, statistics are often misleading...statistics can be spun in ways (and often are).

I did not cherry pick any statistics...someone suggested that because Purdue averaged 4.5 yards a carry, that they were effective/adequate...and that was/is not the case.

Purdue did not run the ball effectively...and, Purdue will not run the ball effectively against any remotely capable front that it faces...they are overmatched as a OL, they lack talent at the RB position and playcalling does not help the run game in any way either.

The case I made Mr. Dense is that King Doerue ran the ball adequately and he did. As a team I said that we did not run the ball well and we didn’t. In the first two games we ran the ball well enough to keep the defense honest.

I agree there will probably be several teams that we do not run we’ll against (like ND). What we cannot do is 100% abandon the run or passing becomes much more difficult.

 

[Purdue85]

Yes, statistics are often misleading...statistics can be spun in ways (and often are).

I did not cherry pick any statistics...someone suggested that because Purdue averaged 4.5 yards a carry, that they were effective/adequate...and that was/is not the case.

Purdue did not run the ball effectively...and, Purdue will not run the ball effectively against any remotely capable front that it faces...they are overmatched as a OL, they lack talent at the RB position and playcalling does not help the run game in any way either.

Well, in the interest of accuracy, here was the post/point:

I disagree that this team can’t run the football. We ran good enough in 2 of 3 games. We didn’t run great against ND but King did ultimately average 4.5 per carry which is serviceable. There will be a few games this year where it is difficult to get rush yds but you can’t just not run at all. Purdue only had 18 runs by a running back vs 54 passes. We were not just throwing away a bunch of plays to the run.

I do agree with the talent and play style of this team the short passing game must be an extension of our run.

Context is everything, and you're stretching.

"We didn’t run great against ND...", seems to be more in line with reality. It also appears to be very much in line with your general point.

Look... games like this bring out people looking to pit one point of view against another. There seems to be a consensus: we're getting better, but need to CONTINUE to get better in key areas.

We've already seen the Brohm-haters come out of the woodwork now that he's lost a game. They were waiting for that. There's nothing new here, and nothing we didn't see coming. We are what we are, and it's clear we're improving, year over year.

Time for the next game...

 

[DAG10]

Well, in the interest of accuracy, here was the post/point:



Context is everything, and you're stretching.

"We didn’t run great against ND...", seems to be more in line with reality. It also appears to be very much in line with your general point.

Look... games like this bring out people looking to pit one point of view against another. There seems to be a consensus: we're getting better, but need to CONTINUE to get better in key areas.

We've already seen the Brohm-haters come out of the woodwork now that he's lost a game. They were waiting for that. There's nothing new here, and nothing we didn't see coming. We are what we are, and it's clear we're improving, year over year.

Time for the next game...

Fair point(s)...although I don't agree entirely with "improving, year over year", and, even if so, it is not as if the marginal improvement is enough unless it is a 15-year process to get to a point where Purdue is able to compete at all on a genuine national level.

I do agree with your assertion that many have appeared out of the woodwork and were waiting to do so.

Huge game this week, more so if Bell is out...and, in that nobody knew about Trice (who was definitely missed), his availability is important as well.

I am just disappointed that Purdue is still where it is with respect to the OL and what it being below average translates to...as it just affects everything, and, I am disappointed to an extent about how conservative things are (but, at the same time, I get that they were just trying to stay in the game).

To your point...and the bigger one...hopefully they do get better, and, hopefully they can find a way to win some games that seem to be opportunities to do so if they indeed do get better...admittedly, I remain skeptical just due to the OL issue(s)...the defense yesterday gave some reasons to be hopeful, although I remain concerned about the LBs and secondary...more so if ND is not better than I believe them to be at this point after seeing FSU, and, them struggling with Toledo.

 

[DAG10]

The case I made Mr. Dense is that King Doerue ran the ball adequately and he did. As a team I said that we did not run the ball well and we didn’t. In the first two games we ran the ball well enough to keep the defense honest.

I agree there will probably be several teams that we do not run we’ll against (like ND). What we cannot do is 100% abandon the run or passing becomes much more difficult.

And you agreed to disagree...which was/is fine, as I disagree...Doerue had one nice run...aside of it, he did not run the ball adequately or effectively...not entirely his fault, but, he is not a guy right now either that is going to do much on his own.

Against UConn, it was irrelevant what Purdue did with respect to running the ball...early in the game, they were not able to run it...only after they established the passing game and Durham were they able to run...and, in the end, it did not matter really in that UConn was SO bad.

I don't disagree that they did not do enough against Oregon St. to at least keep them honest for the most part, but, they had problems in short distance downs, and, Horvath was there...which makes a huge difference as well.

Purdue needs to do other things to move the ball other than run up the middle/between the tackles, as, that is simply not going to accomplish anything other than running for the sake of running...it is not keeping anyone honest, as, they can't get past the line of scrimmage hardly. I agree wholeheartedly that they need to find a way to keep the defense honest...and, it will have to involve WRs to do so...shovel screens...WR toss...quick slants...bubble screens...Purdue is way more likely to have success with that/those than they are trying to actually run the football.

 

[Purdue85]

Fair point(s)...although I don't agree entirely with "improving, year over year", and, even if so, it is not as if the marginal improvement is enough unless it is a 15-year process to get to a point where Purdue is able to compete at all on a genuine national level.

I do agree with your assertion that many have appeared out of the woodwork and were waiting to do so.

Huge game this week, more so if Bell is out...and, in that nobody knew about Trice (who was definitely missed), his availability is important as well.

I am just disappointed that Purdue is still where it is with respect to the OL and what it being below average translates to...as it just affects everything, and, I am disappointed to an extent about how conservative things are (but, at the same time, I get that they were just trying to stay in the game).

To your point...and the bigger one...hopefully they do get better, and, hopefully they can find a way to win some games that seem to be opportunities to do so if they indeed do get better...admittedly, I remain skeptical just due to the OL issue(s)...the defense yesterday gave some reasons to be hopeful, although I remain concerned about the LBs and secondary...more so if ND is not better than I believe them to be at this point after seeing FSU, and, them struggling with Toledo.

Hells bells, there have been precious few games we haven't been competitive or in a position to win... in spite of the lack of depth/talent.

What's more, we've demonstrated we can game plan with the best of them, with few exceptions.

Not sure what you think you should be seeing, but this program is progressing nicely, just not quickly enough for the microwave crowd. 😉

 

[purduepat1969]

Hells bells, there have been precious few games we haven't been competitive or in a position to win... in spite of the lack of depth/talent.

What's more, we've demonstrated we can game plan with the best of them, with few exceptions.

Not sure what you think you should be seeing, but this program is progressing nicely, just not quickly enough for the microwave crowd. 😉

I'd like the OL and the running game to make better progress. I think the jury is still out on whether the offense can score enough against good defenses. However, who cares how they score (run or pass), as long as they do. I'm sure they'll continue to improve as the year goes on, barring any additional injuries of significance.

On the other side, the progress with the defense is simply remarkable and Brohm deserves credit for making the right move there. Getting off the field on 3rd downs is something I'm not quite used to seeing from Purdue for a long time. So it's a pleasant surprise.

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

On the other side, the progress with the defense is simply remarkable and Brohm deserves credit for making the right move there. Getting off the field on 3rd downs is something I'm not quite used to seeing from Purdue for a long time. So it's a pleasant susurprise.

Agreed. I find myself enjoying the defense.

 

[goodboiler]

I believe AOC is more composed then Plummer. He stepped in with the ball at our own one adn through the best pass of the year in the seam to our receiver. He continued down the field until the ball glanced off our Te into the hands on ND. Just like his accuracy and coolness. ND knew he was throwing and still was able to move the ball. He feels the pressure and the amount of time he has to throw the ball and makes the throws. Great leader in my mind and sight. A lot of David Blough in him. He used his legs to move the chains too.

i was more upset about the horrible special teams both punters hit line drives making about every punt returnable. They are terrible F for a grade. We could never flip the field because of their terrible punts. It set up the defense for a short field which is something we did not need with their skill players they have.

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

I believe AOC is more composed then Plummer. He stepped in with the ball at our own one adn through the best pass of the year in the seam to our receiver. He continued down the field until the ball glanced off our Te into the hands on ND. Just like his accuracy and coolness. ND knew he was throwing and still was able to move the ball. He feels the pressure and the amount of time he has to throw the ball and makes the throws. Great leader in my mind and sight. A lot of David Blough in him. He used his legs to move the chains too.

i was more upset about the horrible special teams both punters hit line drives making about every punt returnable. They are terrible F for a grade. We could never flip the field because of their terrible punts. It set up the defense for a short field which is something we did not need with their skill players they have.

Agree with you brother. I was pleasantly surprised with OC being able to scramble as its been a while since I've seen him do it healthy. My last memory was him stumbling for what should have been a 1st down at NW last year. Plummer may be faster but he isn't good at eluding pressure.

 

[FirstDownB]

I think the jury is still out on whether the offense can score enough against good defenses.

Most likely they won't. That's what makes them good defenses.

It somewhat surprises me that people are acting like they thought we were going to move the ball with great success against ND and score like we did against UConn or even OSU. Paying attention to how this plays out over the years, unless we have a really good OL, our offense will get bottled up against a stout front and there's not much that playcalling can do to get around it. Maybe for a play here or there, but not in a sustained way.

Spoiler alert: If anyone was expecting a 10-2 or 9-3 Purdue team to drop out of the sky this year they were dreaming. Yes, we are going to struggle to score points against the good defenses on the schedule. ND is one of those, at least at home they are. Also, against the good offenses on the schedule, we are going to struggle to stop them.

From what I have seen through 3 games, nothing has played out differently than expected, other than the degree of improvement on defense. I don't see Rutgers running the QB draw up the gut over and over against this defense and picking up first downs at will.

People are reacting to what they see even if the facts and logic are telling them it is to be expected. But if this team can stay relatively healthy it can stay on its track and beat enough teams on the schedule to make a bowl game. That is progress.

 

[purduepat1969]

Most likely they won't. That's what makes them good defenses.

It somewhat surprises me that people are acting like they thought we were going to move the ball with great success against ND and score like we did against UConn or even OSU. Paying attention to how this plays out over the years, unless we have a really good OL, our offense will get bottled up against a stout front and there's not much that playcalling can do to get around it. Maybe for a play here or there, but not in a sustained way.

Spoiler alert: If anyone was expecting a 10-2 or 9-3 Purdue team to drop out of the sky this year they were dreaming. Yes, we are going to struggle to score points against the good defenses on the schedule. ND is one of those, at least at home they are. Also, against the good offenses on the schedule, we are going to struggle to stop them.

From what I have seen through 3 games, nothing has played out differently than expected, other than the degree of improvement on defense. I don't see Rutgers running the QB draw up the gut over and over against this defense and picking up first downs at will.

People are reacting to what they see even if the facts and logic are telling them it is to be expected. But if this team can stay relatively healthy it can stay on its track and beat enough teams on the schedule to make a bowl game. That is progress.

Well, Purdue scored one touchdown. FSU and Toledo scored multiple TDs against the same D. And no one in the offseason expected ND to be as beatable as they were. I don't think anyone should expect Purdue to score 40 points against good defenses. But they should have at least scored in the 20s. The D did their part. Now it's time for the OL to man up.

 

[Level 42]

Now it's time for the OL to man up.

This is the key part of our problems. All the changes to play calling in the world won't make up for the offensive line being so terrible.

Brohm has made the right decisions on coaching in other areas, I hope he does it again with the offensive line because this is two season in a row it has sucked.

 

[pboiler18]

Well, Purdue scored one touchdown. FSU and Toledo scored multiple TDs against the same D. And no one in the offseason expected ND to be as beatable as they were. I don't think anyone should expect Purdue to score 40 points against good defenses. But they should have at least scored in the 20s. The D did their part. Now it's time for the OL to man up.

Agree. I think the play calling allowed the ND defense to look better than it actually was. We needed to be aggressive in the pass game and dictate to them what we were going to do. Games like this you need to forget about balance AND DO WHAT WORKS! We could have pretty easily IMO, especially with AOC Dink and dunked them all afternoon. Get them tired from chasing us sideline to sideline, use our depth at WR to counter there’s in the secondary and at LB, use the pass as an extended run and then hit them with the run when they don’t expect it.

Brohm certainly knows a lot more than I do about offense…but it’s starting to look like when he doesn’t have superior talent he’s unable to gameplan and scheme up a win vs. good teams and smart coordinators.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Fair point(s)...although I don't agree entirely with "improving, year over year", and, even if so, it is not as if the marginal improvement is enough unless it is a 15-year process to get to a point where Purdue is able to compete at all on a genuine national level.

I do agree with your assertion that many have appeared out of the woodwork and were waiting to do so.

Huge game this week, more so if Bell is out...and, in that nobody knew about Trice (who was definitely missed), his availability is important as well.

I am just disappointed that Purdue is still where it is with respect to the OL and what it being below average translates to...as it just affects everything, and, I am disappointed to an extent about how conservative things are (but, at the same time, I get that they were just trying to stay in the game).

To your point...and the bigger one...hopefully they do get better, and, hopefully they can find a way to win some games that seem to be opportunities to do so if they indeed do get better...admittedly, I remain skeptical just due to the OL issue(s)...the defense yesterday gave some reasons to be hopeful, although I remain concerned about the LBs and secondary...more so if ND is not better than I believe them to be at this point after seeing FSU, and, them struggling with Toledo.

I think we’ve improved year over year

Most likely they won't. That's what makes them good defenses.

It somewhat surprises me that people are acting like they thought we were going to move the ball with great success against ND and score like we did against UConn or even OSU. Paying attention to how this plays out over the years, unless we have a really good OL, our offense will get bottled up against a stout front and there's not much that playcalling can do to get around it. Maybe for a play here or there, but not in a sustained way.

Spoiler alert: If anyone was expecting a 10-2 or 9-3 Purdue team to drop out of the sky this year they were dreaming. Yes, we are going to struggle to score points against the good defenses on the schedule. ND is one of those, at least at home they are. Also, against the good offenses on the schedule, we are going to struggle to stop them.

From what I have seen through 3 games, nothing has played out differently than expected, other than the degree of improvement on defense. I don't see Rutgers running the QB draw up the gut over and over against this defense and picking up first downs at will.

People are reacting to what they see even if the facts and logic are telling them it is to be expected. But if this team can stay relatively healthy it can stay on its track and beat enough teams on the schedule to make a bowl game. That is progress.

i think there’s a chance we struggle to move the ball against many of the defenses we face.

the book wasn’t out on Purdue.. now it is. Take away bell and Durham and play the run with your DL and minor help.

there’s the pop Warner stuff people wanna hear here. Here’s what opposing coaches are probably saying..

> you can cheat off Wright, he can’t catch anyway..
> just get near anthrop he can’t outrun you.
> Purdue’s line can’t push 5 defenders, the backs aren’t Horvath and if they don’t catch the ball on the run with clean space in front, you can bottle them up.

the only question is.. do opponents we face have a defensive line as big and fast as ND or not?

like someone else pointed out.. you think it’s gonna look much better against Michigan state?

I still say 5-7/6-6 but we have some things to figure out. And the problem is.. you can figure out some skill position things. You can try to get Deion burks ready to go if you think that gives you a speed edge (just an example).

you figure offensive line out over a much longer time period than 10 weeks

I began looking at this team Oregon state week and getting that “that’s no moon” feeling about the OL deep sixing the whole show … hopefully we just find out ND was that much better than everyone else

 

[FirstDownB]

Well, Purdue scored one touchdown. FSU and Toledo scored multiple TDs against the same D. And no one in the offseason expected ND to be as beatable as they were. I don't think anyone should expect Purdue to score 40 points against good defenses. But they should have at least scored in the 20s. The D did their part. Now it's time for the OL to man up.

Meh. The transitive rule. Different games, different flows. It's a 14 point loss no matter how you slice it. On the road, in a hostile environment. Against a team with a lot of talent.

With the talk leading up to this game most people knew ND was going to change up some things defensively to prevent the big plays that bit them in games 1 and 2. Bottom line, there was a ton of talent on the field in blue and gold on Saturday, and most think they took a step toward playing to their ability level.

Am I disappointed in the 13 points? Yes. But Purdue had scoring outputs similar to that with Coach Tiller against helmet schools on the road. And Coach Brohm has had bowl teams himself where the offense struggled at times like this too. 2018 Purdue scored 13 points on the road against an MSU team that was nowhere near this 2021 ND team. The following week it was Purdue scoring 38 points against #19 Iowa. That's just the way these things go.

Now, if we aren't scoring 30+ on the likes of Illinois that could change my opinion.

 

[FirstDownB]

I think we’ve improved year over year

i think there’s a chance we struggle to move the ball against many of the defenses we face.

the book wasn’t out on Purdue.. now it is. Take away bell and Durham and play the run with your DL and minor help.

there’s the pop Warner stuff people wanna hear here. Here’s what opposing coaches are probably saying..

> you can cheat off Wright, he can’t catch anyway..
> just get near anthrop he can’t outrun you.
> Purdue’s line can’t push 5 defenders, the backs aren’t Horvath and if they don’t catch the ball on the run with clean space in front, you can bottle them up.

the only question is.. do opponents we face have a defensive line as big and fast as ND or not?

like someone else pointed out.. you think it’s gonna look much better against Michigan state?

I still say 5-7/6-6 but we have some things to figure out. And the problem is.. you can figure out some skill position things. You can try to get Deion burks ready to go if you think that gives you a speed edge (just an example).

you figure offensive line out over a much longer time period than 10 weeks

I began looking at this team Oregon state week and getting that “that’s no moon” feeling about the OL deep sixing the whole show … hopefully we just find out ND was that much better than everyone else

The book may be out, but can teams with equal talent to Purdue execute the book like ND, who has vastly superior talent. Wisconsin, Iowa, OSU, maybe MSU. Sure, there is likely going to be a lot of sputtering. The others on the schedule?? With a extra second to pass, or one less defender in coverage, the balance can shift quickly. Now, you take away David Bell, and maybe King Doerue finds some running room against Illinois. Anthrop looks a bit more shifty on the swing passes. Secondary receivers like Thompson and Sheffield are able to get open.

I wish we had a better OL and a serviceable run game. I think its becoming very obvious why Horvath was getting so many snaps. He could make 1 tackler miss almost every play. That's gone now, and with it our chance for balance. Without balance the ceiling is maybe 6-7 wins. It's going to be very difficult to find a winning formula against the teams at the top.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

The book may be out, but can teams with equal talent to Purdue execute the book like ND, who has vastly superior talent. Wisconsin, Iowa, OSU, maybe MSU. Sure, there is likely going to be a lot of sputtering. The others on the schedule?? With a extra second to pass, or one less defender in coverage, the balance can shift quickly. Now, you take away David Bell, and maybe King Doerue finds some running room against Illinois. Anthrop looks a bit more shifty on the swing passes. Secondary receivers like Thompson and Sheffield are able to get open.

MSU typically gets very good athletes. Without even looking I wouldn’t be surprised if their front seven wasn’t the best combo of size and explosiveness left on the schedule (OSU linebackers are eh…)

we better beat Illinois soundly or this board will be unreadable and you know I’m far from a homer.

after Illinois I think the offense will come down to exactly what you said. If teams can get close to what ND did they probably can hold us to 20ish.. with our defense anything more may not be enough from their point of view …

now, I’m an Oconnell guy.. I do think he might make just enough of a difference to massively swing the pendulum.

I don’t just think that for no reason ..

What would help if defenses actually can play us similar? A guy who can step up, get drilled and hit Doerue, anthrop or Wright open with room in front. I really wish I felt like plummer could. Maybe next year as he did make progress.. and maybe we see immediate progress this week. But I don’t think he’s that guy yet

 

[purduepat1969]

This is the key part of our problems. All the changes to play calling in the world won't make up for the offensive line being so terrible.

Brohm has made the right decisions on coaching in other areas, I hope he does it again with the offensive line because this is two season in a row it has sucked.

Yeah, Dale Williams has been here for 5 years. The tight ends have been fine, with the exception of blocking. But the OL has struggled almost every year. I think it's time for a change in this area. There's enough talent on the line that we shouldn't have basic pass protection and run blocking issues. Garrett Miller (TE) absolutely whiffed on a block that kept Milton Wright from getting the corner on 4th down. Hartwig snaps the ball into his groin on a key 3rd down. The backs (Doerue and Downing) ran for 60 yards on 18 carries (3.3 ypc). Purdue was ranked 89th in yards per carry after the OSU and UCONN game, so it's not just because of the ND game...

 

[Level 42]

Yeah, Dale Williams has been here for 5 years. The tight ends have been fine, with the exception of blocking. But the OL has struggled almost every year. I think it's time for a change in this area. There's enough talent on the line that we shouldn't have basic pass protection and run blocking issues. Garrett Miller (TE) absolutely whiffed on a block that kept Milton Wright from getting the corner on 4th down. Hartwig snaps the ball into his groin on a key 3rd down. The backs (Doerue and Downing) ran for 60 yards on 18 carries (3.3 ypc). Purdue was ranked 89th in yards per carry after the OSU and UCONN game, so it's not just because of the ND game...

Completely agree. There were many plays where you could see the line just 'give up' as it were and Plummer had to run for his life. That is on Dale and Brohm needs to handle that in the offseason.

We could have Drew back there as the QB and he would struggle with the line in it's current form.

 

[DAG10]

Yeah, Dale Williams has been here for 5 years. The tight ends have been fine, with the exception of blocking. But the OL has struggled almost every year. I think it's time for a change in this area. There's enough talent on the line that we shouldn't have basic pass protection and run blocking issues. Garrett Miller (TE) absolutely whiffed on a block that kept Milton Wright from getting the corner on 4th down. Hartwig snaps the ball into his groin on a key 3rd down. The backs (Doerue and Downing) ran for 60 yards on 18 carries (3.3 ypc). Purdue was ranked 89th in yards per carry after the OSU and UCONN game, so it's not just because of the ND game...

While Williams certainly has not done his job on the surface, it is not his fault that Miller completely whiffed...or Hartwig could not snap the ball...or, to what Level42 just shared below, the entire line got beat at the LOS on a snap and Plummer was running for dear life.

This is a quality/talent/depth issue as much (or, really more) than anything...yes, there were injuries at the position that took a toll, but, the OL has not been good since '18...there are not many programs that can have a bad OL for 3 years running...and, that is more than on Williams...and, it is what has hurt (and is hurting) Purdue more than anything else...until it gets fixed, that will remain the case.

Dale Williams could be the Vince Lombardi of OL coaches and I don't know that it would matter in that they simply are overmatched physically, and, it would seem just based on missed assignments, perhaps intellectually as well.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Plummer doesn’t see the field well or quickly at Notre dames level of play. The good news is I’m not sure we play another defense as big and explosive in the front 7 as ND

Umh,

Florida State scored 38 points on ND (only 17 against Jacksonville State and 14 against Wake Forest)

Toledo Scored 29 points on ND (only 6 against a 1-2 Colorado State Team)

Purdue scored 13.

So far we are the only ones who haven't figured out how to score against that "big and explosive" front 7.

 

[DAG10]

Most likely they won't. That's what makes them good defenses.

It somewhat surprises me that people are acting like they thought we were going to move the ball with great success against ND and score like we did against UConn or even OSU. Paying attention to how this plays out over the years, unless we have a really good OL, our offense will get bottled up against a stout front and there's not much that playcalling can do to get around it. Maybe for a play here or there, but not in a sustained way.

Spoiler alert: If anyone was expecting a 10-2 or 9-3 Purdue team to drop out of the sky this year they were dreaming. Yes, we are going to struggle to score points against the good defenses on the schedule. ND is one of those, at least at home they are. Also, against the good offenses on the schedule, we are going to struggle to stop them.

From what I have seen through 3 games, nothing has played out differently than expected, other than the degree of improvement on defense. I don't see Rutgers running the QB draw up the gut over and over against this defense and picking up first downs at will.

People are reacting to what they see even if the facts and logic are telling them it is to be expected. But if this team can stay relatively healthy it can stay on its track and beat enough teams on the schedule to make a bowl game. That is progress.

A FSU team that put up 38 on ND managed 17 a week later against Jacksonville St. and 14 this past week against what I am guessing is not an incredibly talented Wake Forest team (Norfolk St. scored more just a week prior)...yet, Purdue managed 13...I am not big on the whole transitive thing either, but, it should at least be concerning I would think.

I am still not sure how much the defense has improved...it has definitely improved, but, it would be damn near impossible to not have. It is still tough to know just how much better it really is in that I still don't know how good Oregon St. may genuinely be, UConn is irrelevant and ND has shown itself to not be very good offensively (including against Purdue). I am still skeptical that it can consistently stop the run, and, defend teams with quality skill players. To your point, however, I feel better about the fact that Rutgers is going to repeatedly run QB or RB up the gut and Purdue never stop them.

If this team somehow finds a way to win enough games to get to a bowl, that would absolutely be progress...and well received...but, it won't be easy, particularly if the OL remains the issue that it has been...and I don't know how that just magically gets fixed...thus the need to scheme for it and try to overcome the problem that way.

 

[DAG10]

I think we’ve improved year over year

i think there’s a chance we struggle to move the ball against many of the defenses we face.

the book wasn’t out on Purdue.. now it is. Take away bell and Durham and play the run with your DL and minor help.

there’s the pop Warner stuff people wanna hear here. Here’s what opposing coaches are probably saying..

> you can cheat off Wright, he can’t catch anyway..
> just get near anthrop he can’t outrun you.
> Purdue’s line can’t push 5 defenders, the backs aren’t Horvath and if they don’t catch the ball on the run with clean space in front, you can bottle them up.

the only question is.. do opponents we face have a defensive line as big and fast as ND or not?

like someone else pointed out.. you think it’s gonna look much better against Michigan state?

I still say 5-7/6-6 but we have some things to figure out. And the problem is.. you can figure out some skill position things. You can try to get Deion burks ready to go if you think that gives you a speed edge (just an example).

you figure offensive line out over a much longer time period than 10 weeks

I began looking at this team Oregon state week and getting that “that’s no moon” feeling about the OL deep sixing the whole show … hopefully we just find out ND was that much better than everyone else

Just out of pure curiosity, in what way was last year's team better than any of the 3 that preceded it?

 

[purduepat1969]

While Williams certainly has not done his job on the surface, it is not his fault that Miller completely whiffed...or Hartwig could not snap the ball...or, to what Level42 just shared below, the entire line got beat at the LOS on a snap and Plummer was running for dear life.

This is a quality/talent/depth issue as much (or, really more) than anything...yes, there were injuries at the position that took a toll, but, the OL has not been good since '18...there are not many programs that can have a bad OL for 3 years running...and, that is more than on Williams...and, it is what has hurt (and is hurting) Purdue more than anything else...until it gets fixed, that will remain the case.

Dale Williams could be the Vince Lombardi of OL coaches and I don't know that it would matter in that they simply are overmatched physically, and, it would seem just based on missed assignments, perhaps intellectually as well.

I don't buy that one bit. Greg Long was a good O lineman at UTEP. Hartwig is as good as it's going to get for Purdue. Cam Craig, Spencer Holstege, and Eric Miller were all 3 star recruits. Tyler Witt was one of the best offensive linemen in Conf USA. Eric Miller is a redshirt junior with a good amount of experience at Purdue.

Greg Long LT Grad Transfer 6-4 300 lb
Spencer Holstege LG RS So 6-5 310 lb
Gus Hartwig C So 6-5 310 lb
Tyler Witt RG Grad Transfer 6-2 305 lb
Eric Miller RT RS Junior 6-7 305 lb

Cam Craig So 6-5 310 lb

This is not an undersized line and not devoid of talent. I understand depth is an issue. But during the 1st half there was no push from the line in the running game at all. In the first couple of series at UCONN, even UCONN was getting in the backfield.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Just out of pure curiosity, in what way was last year's team better than any of the 3 that preceded it?

Bigger issue last year than covid .. much bigger, can you guess ?

 

[Level 42]

I don't buy that one bit. Greg Long was a good O lineman at UTEP. Hartwig is as good as it's going to get for Purdue. Cam Craig, Spencer Holstege, and Eric Miller were all 3 star recruits. Tyler Witt was one of the best offensive linemen in Conf USA. Eric Miller is a redshirt junior with a good amount of experience at Purdue.

Greg Long LT Grad Transfer 6-4 300 lb
Spencer Holstege LG RS So 6-5 310 lb
Gus Hartwig C So 6-5 310 lb
Tyler Witt RG Grad Transfer 6-2 305 lb
Eric Miller RT RS Junior 6-7 305 lb

Cam Craig So 6-5 310 lb

This is not an undersized line and not devoid of talent. I understand depth is an issue. But during the 1st half there was no push from the line in the running game at all. In the first couple of series at UCONN, even UCONN was getting in the backfield.

There was one play that summed the whole line thing up for me this past weekend and that was when plummer was sacked, again, late in the game he laid on the ground for a bit and just looked exasperated. Soon after, Aiden came in and had success, but I think that had more to do with ND not being ready for Aiden than anything else.

Aiden can sling the ball in a hurry and accurately there is no doubt, but we shouldn't need the QB that runs the offense to always be under duress.

 

[purduepat1969]

There was one play that summed the whole line thing up for me this past weekend and that was when plummer was sacked, again, late in the game he laid on the ground for a bit and just looked exasperated. Soon after, Aiden came in and had success, but I think that had more to do with ND not being ready for Aiden than anything else.

Aiden can sling the ball in a hurry and accurately there is no doubt, but we shouldn't need the QB that runs the offense to always be under duress.

If I were Plummer, I'd be livid with the performance of my OL. If I'm him, I don't care if I'm smaller than them. I'd be in their faces ripping them a new one...

 

[DAG10]

I don't buy that one bit. Greg Long was a good O lineman at UTEP. Hartwig is as good as it's going to get for Purdue. Cam Craig, Spencer Holstege, and Eric Miller were all 3 star recruits. Tyler Witt was one of the best offensive linemen in Conf USA. Eric Miller is a redshirt junior with a good amount of experience at Purdue.

Greg Long LT Grad Transfer 6-4 300 lb
Spencer Holstege LG RS So 6-5 310 lb
Gus Hartwig C So 6-5 310 lb
Tyler Witt RG Grad Transfer 6-2 305 lb
Eric Miller RT RS Junior 6-7 305 lb

Cam Craig So 6-5 310 lb

This is not an undersized line and not devoid of talent. I understand depth is an issue. But during the 1st half there was no push from the line in the running game at all. In the first couple of series at UCONN, even UCONN was getting in the backfield.

Yeah, I really want to agree in that I don't disagree with what you have said, other than perhaps we are overestimating the quality.

Scheme has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the OL can't win the LOS...to your point, against even UConn for some time. It struggled against a less than stellar Oregon St. DL (who ended up losing one of their better players even due to a targeting penalty after a play in which a guy just ran over/by a Purdue OL counterpart), it struggled for longer than it should have against UConn, and, it was flat dominated on Saturday.

It does not appear to be undersized to your point, but, I have been skeptical for some time of the actual talent, and, remain so given what I have seen thus far this year.