2nd Team on Display - Future is Bright

[InModeration]

We are losing a lot more than just Biggie this coming offseason. I expect a pretty dramatic fall off next year. I think we finish 7th or 8th in the B1G assuming no one transfers/goes pro.

Unfortunately I agree. The only thing that would move the needle is the addition of a solid 5th year or 2....AND JT is healthy and logging 20 minutes/game. The 2 bigs have redshirt written all over them but won't/can't due to depth IMO. Purdue is back in the discussion in 2 years.

 

[BoilerJS]

I've given you a break down position by position of where I think we get better, stay the same, and have a drop off. I'm not making uninformed statements. I've researched what next year's team will look look and concluded we will take a big step back.

I do have a couple of questions for you though.

What makes you think Wheeler will A)be the starter and B) be even close to what Mathias (assuming you have him at the 3) is Purdue this year? These same questions apply to Taylor replacing Vince.

Also, what makes you think Eastern will make a huge jump next year? From what we have seen so far this year, he has been an average backup.

Where do you see us finishing in the B1G, and behind who?

You forgot Sasha in your analysis. He might be better than Cline and if we have to go with Cline well be fine.
I think we make the tourney and finish around 5th. We lose a lot.
Williams and Taylor will be the key inside, we know what well get from Haarms and we will need Hunters shooting. We lose a lot of outside punch with Dakota, VE and PJ.

 

[buffboiler]

Like I have posted somewhere in this forum, freshman/sophomore years will be tentative for many. Although we may have 3 cores with experience, I think we would be about in the mid pack. Anything better would be very nice..

But, hey, lets enjoy this season, still have BIG season and March to explore!!

Boiler up!!

 

[Do Dah Day]

Like I have posted somewhere in this forum, freshman/sophomore years will be tentative for many. Although we may have 3 cores with experience, I think we would be about in the mid pack. Anything better would be very nice..

But, hey, lets enjoy this season, still have BIG season and March to explore!!

Boiler up!!

The word that has not been mentioned anywhere is LEADERSHIP ... and it is worth far more than most give it credit for. Who will be next year's LEADER?

 

[mathboy]

I've given you a break down position by position of where I think we get better, stay the same, and have a drop off. I'm not making uninformed statements. I've researched what next year's team will look look and concluded we will take a big step back.

I do have a couple of questions for you though.

What makes you think Wheeler will A)be the starter and B) be even close to what Mathias (assuming you have him at the 3) is Purdue this year? These same questions apply to Taylor replacing Vince.

Also, what makes you think Eastern will make a huge jump next year? From what we have seen so far this year, he has been an average backup.

Where do you see us finishing in the B1G, and behind who?

Let me be clear here. I don't see next year's team will be as consistent as this year's. They will be as good, at times, but will have bigger "downs". They might be a tad more athletic.

Okay, I think it will depend much on how fast Williams comes on. If he busts his butt during the summer, loses weight, gets in shape, and learns the playbook, he might start. Otherwise, I see Wheeler starting at the 4, in some respects taking VE's position. I see Haarms starting at the 5, with Taylor as the first post off the bench for the 5 position.

Cline, CE, and Eastern will form the 1-3 positions. By the way, I dislike using the numeric position numbers for Painter's teams since they mean so little. You have to look at the combinations. Cline is as close to Mathias as you can get to matching an individual player, 1-to-1. That's really a false way to look at the 2018 team. You have to look at the whole group of 1-3 to get a better perspective. I figure Sasha and Hunter will come off the bench this next year.

 

[Gold&Black]

Can Wheeler play the 3?

 

[mathboy]

Can Wheeler play the 3?

Is there a real difference between the 3 and the 4 on Painter's teams? You could argue that Mathias plays the 3. Not sure Mathias is the prototype SF. Sometimes VE shifts to the theoretical 3 when Haarms plays the 4 next to Haas playing the 5.

These numbers don't really mean much. Frequently Painter plays 2 posts and 3 guards. You can mix up the numbered positions all you want and never make sense of the players matched to positions on Purdue's team.

 

[Gold&Black]

I guess the question is could we play Haarms/Taylor, Williams, and Wheeler at the same time?

 

[Do Dah Day]

I guess the question is could we play Haarms/Taylor, Williams, and Wheeler at the same time?

CMP can do anything he wants. The real question is whether it works. ... and a bit whether they have practiced together in this group.

 

[mathboy]

I guess the question is could we play Haarms/Taylor, Williams, and Wheeler at the same time?

I don't see why not. You would have 3 post players on the court, along with a pair of guards (unnamed in your scenario).

That might put C-Boogie and Eastern at guard, then Wheeler and Haarms facing the basket, and Williams at center. That would be an imposing line up, as long as the 3 posts stayed coordinated on defense. Usually teams these days have a 3 position that can shoot from the 3-pt line. Haarms would need to cover that guy. I don't know if he can be as good as Mathias in shutting down those outside shooters. He might be.

 

[Boilersss]

I don't see why not. You would have 3 post players on the court, along with a pair of guards (unnamed in your scenario).

That might put C-Boogie and Eastern at guard, then Wheeler and Haarms facing the basket, and Williams at center. That would be an imposing line up, as long as the 3 posts stayed coordinated on defense. Usually teams these days have a 3 position that can shoot from the 3-pt line. Haarms would need to cover that guy. I don't know if he can be as good as Mathias in shutting down those outside shooters. He might be.

Would probably need Cline instead of Eastern in that lineup. Boogie being the only shooter on the court would be a bad idea.

 

[boilerzz]

We are losing a lot more than just Biggie this coming offseason. I expect a pretty dramatic fall off next year. I think we finish 7th or 8th in the B1G assuming no one transfers/goes pro.

IU fan

 

[Boilersss]

IU fan

Where do you think we finish and behind who? Give me your break down of why you feel that way. If you have nothing to add to the conversation then gtfo.

 

[boilerzz]

Where do you think we finish and behind who? Give me your break down of why you feel that way. If you have nothing to add to the conversation then gtfo.

I’ll have a better idea once classes are complete and early entries are determined but right now, I’d wager about 4th or 5th. Carsen is a stud. Cline and Haarms will continue to improve and be more than solid. I fully expect Painter to get help in the offseason. And people will underestimate Hunter and Williams.

 

[Boilersss]

I’ll have a better idea once classes are complete and early entries are determined but right now, I’d wager about 4th or 5th. Carsen is a stud. Cline and Haarms will continue to improve and be more than solid. I fully expect Painter to get help in the offseason. And people will underestimate Hunter and Williams.

Carsen is a stud, but one guy can only do so much. Everyone we play next year will be looking to just stop Carsen. We won't have the 3 pt shooting next year that we do this year. We also won't have a big inside that will be as dominant as Haas is offensively. The team has major question marks all around.

For Purdue to finish 4th or 5th like you suggest, a number of things will have to go right. For example, Eastern will need to take a huge step forward. He isn't close to being a Big Ten starting PG at this point. Haarms will need to become better offensively (I think it's safe to say this will happen). Hunter will have to come in and be a 38%+ shooter from 3. Williams will have to be able to guard smaller quicker guys. I have no faith that JT will ever be able to go for us.

IMO I don't see this happening. That's why I predicted we finish 7th or 8th.

 

[SIBoiler2]

We can agree to disagree.

Carsen is a stud, but one guy can only do so much. Everyone we play next year will be looking to just stop Carsen. We won't have the 3 pt shooting next year that we do this year. We also won't have a big inside that will be as dominant as Haas is offensively. The team has major question marks all around.

For Purdue to finish 4th or 5th like you suggest, a number of things will have to go right. For example, Eastern will need to take a huge step forward. He isn't close to being a Big Ten starting PG at this point. Haarms will need to become better offensively (I think it's safe to say this will happen). Hunter will have to come in and be a 38%+ shooter from 3. Williams will have to be able to guard smaller quicker guys. I have no faith that JT will ever be able to go for us.

IMO I don't see this happening. That's why I predicted we finish 7th or 8th.

Earlier you said "We'll just have to agree to disagree" in this thread. I guess that means as long as we all agree with you. Since you are so clairvoyant and KNOW that we will have poorer 3 point shooting next year and that we WON'T have a big inside as dominant as Haas can you give me a little help on investments? What stocks should I hold, buy or sell. Also can you tell me which days to plan travel around based on next year's weather? Anyone that speaks in such absolutes must have a lot more knowledge to share.

 

[Boilersss]

Earlier you said "We'll just have to agree to disagree" in this thread. I guess that means as long as we all agree with you. Since you are so clairvoyant and KNOW that we will have poorer 3 point shooting next year and that we WON'T have a big inside as dominant as Haas can you give me a little help on investments? What stocks should I hold, buy or sell. Also can you tell me which days to plan travel around based on next year's weather? Anyone that speaks in such absolutes must have a lot more knowledge to share.

I agreed to disagree with one poster. If I keep getting tagged in stuff of course I'm going to keep responding.

As far as your comments on me dealing in absolutes, anyone with basketball knowledge can see we will be a worse 3pt shooting team next year.

If you want financial help, I suggest you get a financial advisor. It's worked very well for me.

I also suggest buying trip insurance when planning your travel. Best of luck.

 

[mathboy]

Sure, it is really hard to predict the performance of next year's team. Of course we have been down the BS path before... you know... "OMG AJ is gone! How will we survive?", "OMG Biggie is gone! How will we survive?". I am done with that crap-your-pants analysis. Every year, every college basketball team has turn over. So what?

Right now we have a rebounding machine coming in with Williams. We have a top quality guard coming in with Hunter. Let's stop there with recruits. We also have Sasha (a great shooter) and Wheeler red shirting. Next year Sasha & Wheeler will be freshmen with sophomore experience. That means they will be able to jump right into the line up.

What will we have left over? Just Haarms, C. Edwards, and Cline. Two of these might be considered to be in the top 5 players in the BIG.

Plus a sophomore Eastern that might be the biggest impactor of the group of new comers. Oh wait, I forgot Taylor - nice for depth in the front court. A healthy active Taylor might be an incredible boost to the team.

There is no way that much talent, coached by Painter, will finish out of the top 3 in the BIG. Not worried, at all, about the 2018/2019 team.

 

[njm8845]

Sure, it is really hard to predict the performance of next year's team. Of course we have been down the BS path before... you know... "OMG AJ is gone! How will we survive?", "OMG Biggie is gone! How will we survive?". I am done with that crap-your-pants analysis. Every year, every college basketball team has turn over. So what?

Right now we have a rebounding machine coming in with Williams. We have a top quality guard coming in with Hunter. Let's stop there with recruits. We also have Sasha (a great shooter) and Wheeler red shirting. Next year Sasha & Wheeler will be freshmen with sophomore experience. That means they will be able to jump right into the line up.

What will we have left over? Just Haarms, C. Edwards, and Cline. Two of these might be considered to be in the top 5 players in the BIG.

Plus a sophomore Eastern that might be the biggest impactor of the group of new comers. Oh wait, I forgot Taylor - nice for depth in the front court. A healthy active Taylor might be an incredible boost to the team.

There is no way that much talent, coached by Painter, will finish out of the top 3 in the BIG. Not worried, at all, about the 2018/2019 team.

It’s funny all this arguing over a couple of spots in the standings.

The pessimist says we will finish 7th.

The optimist says we will finish 5th.

Don’t you guys see that you barely even disagree?

There’s hardly any difference historically between the 5 and 7 spots.

Last year, the 5-8 teams all finished 10-8.

The year before, the 3-6 teams all finished 12-6.

I think we can all agree that we have major question marks next year. We likely will not be ranked. However, I still think we go dancing.

 

[tjreese]

The word that has not been mentioned anywhere is LEADERSHIP ... and it is worth far more than most give it credit for. Who will be next year's LEADER?

The offensive maturity I've seen in Carsen this year says to me it will be him. Hopefully Cline and Taylor in competition for that spot...

 

[Do Dah Day]

The offensive maturity I've seen in Carsen this year says to me it will be him. Hopefully Cline and Taylor in competition for that spot...

hmmm ... he will make an interesting leader.... not necessarily bad, kind of like Mateen Cleves or Scot Skiles .... THIS IS A THROAT - STEP ON IT ... or maybe MacArthur

 

[mathboy]

It’s funny all this arguing over a couple of spots in the standings.

The pessimist says we will finish 7th.

The optimist says we will finish 5th.

Don’t you guys see that you barely even disagree?

There’s hardly any difference historically between the 5 and 7 spots.

Last year, the 5-8 teams all finished 10-8.

The year before, the 3-6 teams all finished 12-6.

I think we can all agree that we have major question marks next year. We likely will not be ranked. However, I still think we go dancing.

I am not predicting 5th place or 7th place. I say we will finish in the top 3 next year, regardless of the loss of these great seniors. 3rd place is a hell of a long way from 5th.

 

[tjreese]

hmmm ... he will make an interesting leader.... not necessarily bad, kind of like Mateen Cleves or Scot Skiles .... THIS IS A THROAT - STEP ON IT ... or maybe MacArthur

His aggressiveness and speed spell Patton

 

[Do Dah Day]

His aggressiveness and speed spell Patton

OH yes, I was searching for that name

 

[njm8845]

I am not predicting 5th place or 7th place. I say we will finish in the top 3 next year, regardless of the loss of these great seniors. 3rd place is a hell of a long way from 5th.

Not in 2016. 3rd and 5th both had 12 wins.

In 2015 both 3rd and 5th had 12 wins also. I didn’t look at any more years.

A better argument is predicting the number of wins, in order to avoid these huge arguments about small differences in standings.

And I think anyone rational would not predict wins without first seeing the schedule.

 

[lbodel]

I'm a little concerned about next year also but we have a solid trio in Cline, CE and Haarms. Eastern is gaining experience and a healthy Taylor will contribute a bunch.
We'll have Wheeler, Sasha and some talented freshman. I'd say middle of the BIG. We shall see?

Agreed, but not sure about Taylor - feels like he's constantly injured, not sure why we should ever assume he'll be healthy and contribute. Eastern has been looking more comfortable, but he has a long ways to go to be a significant contributor.

Not sure how the Big Ten will stack up next year, but I think only way we make the tournament next year is if it's similar in quality as this year. If it's significantly improved, it'll be tough.

 

[lbodel]

Sure, it is really hard to predict the performance of next year's team. Of course we have been down the BS path before... you know... "OMG AJ is gone! How will we survive?", "OMG Biggie is gone! How will we survive?". I am done with that crap-your-pants analysis. Every year, every college basketball team has turn over. So what?

Right now we have a rebounding machine coming in with Williams. We have a top quality guard coming in with Hunter. Let's stop there with recruits. We also have Sasha (a great shooter) and Wheeler red shirting. Next year Sasha & Wheeler will be freshmen with sophomore experience. That means they will be able to jump right into the line up.

What will we have left over? Just Haarms, C. Edwards, and Cline. Two of these might be considered to be in the top 5 players in the BIG.

Plus a sophomore Eastern that might be the biggest impactor of the group of new comers. Oh wait, I forgot Taylor - nice for depth in the front court. A healthy active Taylor might be an incredible boost to the team.

There is no way that much talent, coached by Painter, will finish out of the top 3 in the BIG. Not worried, at all, about the 2018/2019 team.

The thing we know with Painter teams is that if they can play good defense, that will make them competitive. Painter's gotten to the tournament with very defensive minded teams, with not the best offense (remember when people complained about Kramer playing?). It's certainly not ideal to not have a robust offense, but Painter has shown he can with with both, which a lot of coaches can't.

I think the bigger question next year is depth - there will be some unproven guys. This year we don't have incredible depth, but have a few guys with experience.

 

[BoilerBF]

Furthermore, the teams I see ahead of us look like this.

MSU
Maryland
Penn State
Michigan
Iowa
Wiscy
Ohio State
Purdue

Have you actually watched these teams?

Wisconsin is awful and could lose Happ to NBA. Iowa has played very poorly. Penn St never puts it all together.

Michigan loses quite a bit to graduation and NBA.

Maryland is loaded. Michigan St will likely be good as well.

After that it's wide open.

 

[Boilersss]

Have you actually watched these teams?

Wisconsin is awful and could lose Happ to NBA. Iowa has played very poorly. Penn St never puts it all together.

Michigan loses quite a bit to graduation and NBA.

Maryland is loaded. Michigan St will likely be good as well.

After that it's wide open.

I have watched these teams. I'm assuming Happ doesn't go pro. Iowa is loaded with talent. Next year they will be very experienced. Same with Penn St. Who is Michigan losing? Duncan Robinson and rakman are the only two I can think of. They should be very good.

 

[BoilerBF]

I have watched these teams. I'm assuming Happ doesn't go pro. Iowa is loaded with talent. Next year they will be very experienced. Same with Penn St. Who is Michigan losing? Duncan Robinson and rakman are the only two I can think of. They should be very good.

Wagner could've gone pro last year. Doubt he passes on the opportunity again.

But certainly entitled to your opinion. You are certainly very confident several bad big 10 basketball teams are going to be good all of a sudden next year.

 

[Do Dah Day]

The thing we know with Painter teams is that if they can play good defense, that will make them competitive. Painter's gotten to the tournament with very defensive minded teams, with not the best offense (remember when people complained about Kramer playing?). It's certainly not ideal to not have a robust offense, but Painter has shown he can with with both, which a lot of coaches can't.

I think the bigger question next year is depth - there will be some unproven guys. This year we don't have incredible depth, but have a few guys with experience.

I'm all in on what you say. I'm bummed that it appears we won't have any summer games next year. A year we really need some summer games. But so be it. I suspect we'll play a lot if guys (and, take our lumps) in the preseason. Trust in Painter after that.

 

[Boilersss]

Wagner could've gone pro last year. Doubt he passes on the opportunity again.

But certainly entitled to your opinion. You are certainly very confident several bad big 10 basketball teams are going to be good all of a sudden next year.

A combination of the "bad teams" getting better with experience and us getting worse because we are losing experience. Next year's team will only have two upperclassmen that will play.

 

[BoilerBF]

A combination of the "bad teams" getting better with experience and us getting worse because we are losing experience. Next year's team will only have two upperclassmen that will play.

Haarms, Carsen, Cline, Eastern will be a good nucleus. Not going to fall off the cliff like you are predicting.

We get this every year..."how will we be able to replace Biggie"....the year before we were supposedly going to take a big step back defensively after losing AJH and Davis.

 

[mathboy]

A combination of the "bad teams" getting better with experience and us getting worse because we are losing experience. Next year's team will only have two upperclassmen that will play.

Cline, Taylor, Eifert and Edwards... and that adds up to 4 upper classmen, not 2. Eastern, Sasha, Wheeler and Haarms all with sophomore level experience. Maybe the world is not as dark as you want to paint it. What’s your deal here? You are working pretty hard to tear down the program.

 

[mathboy]

Haarms, Carsen, Cline, Eastern will be a good nucleus. Not going to fall off the cliff like you are predicting.

We get this every year..."how will we be able to replace Biggie"....the year before we were supposedly going to take a big step back defensively after losing AJH and Davis.

I have begun to call that the "Crap-your-pants" type analysis.

Heard the same nonsense about Davis “BIG defensive POY”, AJ “Best shot blocker in the BIG”, and Swanigan “BIG POY”. We lose and gain talent every year.

 

[Boilersss]

Cline, Taylor, Eifert and Edwards... and that adds up to 4 upper classmen, not 2. Eastern, Sasha, Wheeler and Haarms all with sophomore level experience. Maybe the world is not as dark as you want to paint it. What’s your deal here? You are working pretty hard to tear down the program.

I said that will play. I don't think Eifert will play next year with all the bigs that we will have. Taylor has had 4 years to get on the court, and hasn't been able to do it.

I'm over this conversation though. We shall see what next year brings.

 

[StickPurdue]

Carsen is a stud, but one guy can only do so much. Everyone we play next year will be looking to just stop Carsen. We won't have the 3 pt shooting next year that we do this year. We also won't have a big inside that will be as dominant as Haas is offensively. The team has major question marks all around.

For Purdue to finish 4th or 5th like you suggest, a number of things will have to go right. For example, Eastern will need to take a huge step forward. He isn't close to being a Big Ten starting PG at this point. Haarms will need to become better offensively (I think it's safe to say this will happen). Hunter will have to come in and be a 38%+ shooter from 3. Williams will have to be able to guard smaller quicker guys. I have no faith that JT will ever be able to go for us.

IMO I don't see this happening. That's why I predicted we finish 7th or 8th.

Cline, Sasha, and Hunter can stroke it. Wheeler is a pretty decent shooter himself. If Carsen and Eastern can reliably shoot over 35% from 3, the team next year will have just as much talent (although it will defiantly take a hit in senior leadership and the basketball IQ that comes with the experience). Being more athletic and better at rebounding will really help. Cline's defense has improved a lot and Haarms reminds me of Hammons how he helps from the weak side with that quickness. In '19 we should be scary good especially if we land some of the high end recruits we are after (and that include Tyger of the '18 class and Isaiah with the other bigs in the '19 class).

 

[Boilersss]

Cline, Sasha, and Hunter can stroke it. Wheeler is a pretty decent shooter himself. If Carsen and Eastern can reliably shoot over 35% from 3, the team next year will have just as much talent (although it will defiantly take a hit in senior leadership and the basketball IQ that comes with the experience). Being more athletic and better at rebounding will really help. Cline's defense has improved a lot and Haarms reminds me of Hammons how he helps from the weak side with that quickness. In '19 we should be scary good especially if we land some of the high end recruits we are after (and that include Tyger of the '18 class and Isaiah with the other bigs in the '19 class).

I completely agree about '19. I just think we will have a down year next year while we gain experience.

 

[lbodel]

I'm all in on what you say. I'm bummed that it appears we won't have any summer games next year. A year we really need some summer games. But so be it. I suspect we'll play a lot if guys (and, take our lumps) in the preseason. Trust in Painter after that.

I'm guessing our schedule will not be loaded. May not play one of the Gavitt Big East games (I think only 6 teams do - and we've done it each year I think - or at least the last 2 years). The ACC game may not be a premiere program. And then we'll obviously play ND. The tournament in Charleston has some pretty good programs, but have no idea what they will be like next year. Nothing over the top though like Atlantis/Maui.

Not sure if there's anything other games on the docket?

Every player adjusts to the college differently. We'll have some young/inexperienced guys. I've been pleasantly surprised with how Haarms has done. Hopefully Eastern starts to get into a groove this season as many think he can be a very solid player for Purdue.

 

[Schnelk]

Not making any predictions as to where we'll finish I think we'll have a very talented squad. I agree with many of the opinions above concerning the team but I think the key will be how good Williams will be. Weight? Conditioning? I assume he's having a dominant last season in high school. I hope he's playing against some big-time competition. So if he can get us quality minutes in the post and compliment Haarms, Taylor and/or whoever else we might be in better shape at both rebounding and defense. It seems we've got some great individual talent for next year. To me the whole team is intriguing.