2016-17 vs. 2017-18 Purdue
- Thread starter FirstDownB
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Last year would win I think. Even tho all the guys have improved, I don’t think it makes up for the loss of the best player in the nation.
Good question. I think this year's team is more of a team. Way more balanced in scoring. Cannot replace Biggie's rebounding. Our starting 5 is powerful and shooting is incredible. Cline and Harms are playing well. Need to see us again against strong competition with stronger defenses. So, I say this years team.
This is just for fun, folks. Feel free to exercise your imagination.
IMO Biggie would have a big game on the boards for the 16/17 team. But 17/18 Carsen would make 16/17 Carsen look foolish. And the presence of Haarms would make it more difficult for 16/17 guards to score in the paint. 17/18 PJ, Dakota, Cline, and Vince are incrementally better than their 16/17 selves.
Could Biggie/Haas get Haas/Haarms into foul trouble? If so, depth could come into play.
IMO Biggie would have a big game on the boards for the 16/17 team. But 17/18 Carsen would make 16/17 Carsen look foolish. And the presence of Haarms would make it more difficult for 16/17 guards to score in the paint. 17/18 PJ, Dakota, Cline, and Vince are incrementally better than their 16/17 selves.
Could Biggie/Haas get Haas/Haarms into foul trouble? If so, depth could come into play.
Is Vince incrementally better? Haven't seen that yet. Part of it is he was already really good. Cline is not dramatically different either, fg% isn't. True on Dakota. And agree with the point about this year's carsen.
Can't call it, would be a fun game
Disagree on Cline. His game has improved in many areas. He's no longer just a spot up shooter. He can put it on the floor and get in the lane to finish, is a good passer, and no longer is a defensive liability.
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VE has always been somewhat streaky with his shooting. I expect his 3P% to come back to around 42% eventually. One thing he is definitely doing better this year is hitting the boards, but a lot of that is due to more opportunities with Biggie gone. Agreed, overall, he is probably the least different from last year.
On Cline, I gotta stick to my guns. His improvement in ball handling and venturing into the paint on occasion is marked.
I loved Biggie’s play as much as anyone, but I never put him the category as a big dog type player.
I think this years team is better than last years.
I agree we do not rebound as well.
I think we are far more efficient offensively.
My reason that 17-18 is better is defense. It’s way better now and still improving.
Hmmm....if Dakota Mathias was guarding Dakota Mathias, how many points would Dakota Mathias score?
At the same point in the year?
Our defense got really good last year later in the season. We're getting better defensively, but may not quite to that same level - plus rebounding. The end of last year's team would beat this current team, but wouldn't be surprised if this year's team overtakes that "level" of play much earlier in the conference season, or at least hope so.
Take away Biggie, but add Haarms and Eastern. I'd say it would be close, but last year's team would win if they played right now. By the end of the season, Eastern and Haarms might be enough horsepower to overtake last year's team. Also factor in Carson Edwards remarkable improvement. There is no question that the 2018 CE is worlds better than the 2017 Carson.
I could see Haarms frustrating Biggie, and the 2018 C-Boogie blowing by most of the 2017 team to score in bunches. That fisrt contest might be closer than I initially thought in the beginning of my post.
I could see Haarms frustrating Biggie, and the 2018 C-Boogie blowing by most of the 2017 team to score in bunches. That fisrt contest might be closer than I initially thought in the beginning of my post.
I'm voting current team. This year's shooters are more consistent and this team shares the ball much better. Last year you could shut down Biggie and we were in trouble. The current team has no offensive liability in the starting lineup. For all Davis was he was not a threat that other team's planned for.
None, but he would get 30 assists because Dakota isn’t guarding anyone else.
Not sure I'd agree with "shut down Swanigan and we were in trouble". There were multiple losses in which Swanigan played well. @ Michigan, he was 8-11 and 18 points, vs. Minnesota he had 28 points and 22 rebounds. Certainly there were losses he did not make a major impact on - but I don't necessarily attribute that to other teams.
While we have seen some inconsistent shooting in Atlantis, for the most part this team has been much more consistent offensively. I think they've been better at execution as well - look at Haas vs. MD. Swanigan certainly had tremendous things he brought to the table, but he was also a turnover liability and not always very efficient.
Last year, Swanigan averaged 3.37 turnovers a game himself.
This year, Haas and Haarms are COMBINING for 2.57 turnovers a game.
It's certainly not apples to apples, but fewer turnovers are helping negate the rebounding advantage last year's team had. And if you negate the rebounding - this year's team is better.
2017/18 wins the series 4-3 as PJ Thompson seals the deciding game from the FT line.
In order to balance the game schedule, Game 3 played in Lambert Fieldhouse. A slight controversy in Game 5 as each member of H & H Block gets knocked out in a crazy celebration gone awry.....Caleb Swanigan's inside/outside barrage and 40-rebound game is the difference in Game 6.....Caleb Swanigan selected MVP (in '69 Finals fashion from the non-victorious side).
No disrespect intended to the 2017 team and certainly not to consensus All-American Caleb Swanigan......just a look to what's still ahead for the Boilers, and through the Black & Gold filtered glasses I received as an early gift from a long-time friend.
Safe travels to all who are travelling for the Holidays......and may the Wonders of the Season fill your homes with much peace, joy, laughter, love, and fellowship during the holidays and throughout the coming new year.
In order to balance the game schedule, Game 3 played in Lambert Fieldhouse. A slight controversy in Game 5 as each member of H & H Block gets knocked out in a crazy celebration gone awry.....Caleb Swanigan's inside/outside barrage and 40-rebound game is the difference in Game 6.....Caleb Swanigan selected MVP (in '69 Finals fashion from the non-victorious side).
No disrespect intended to the 2017 team and certainly not to consensus All-American Caleb Swanigan......just a look to what's still ahead for the Boilers, and through the Black & Gold filtered glasses I received as an early gift from a long-time friend.
Safe travels to all who are travelling for the Holidays......and may the Wonders of the Season fill your homes with much peace, joy, laughter, love, and fellowship during the holidays and throughout the coming new year.
I will take 4 seniors starting any day. All four have seen ups and downs, will make a difference in March this year. Boiler Up
Still would like to see Vince become more dominant offensively, but I think it is what it is. He's a stat sheet filler though (although if he cut back on filling the turnover line, I'd be thrilled!).
I don't like looking backwards. or comparing us to our past. What matters to me .. can this current team beat the current MSU team ? if not, then last year's team was better. to me, it's simple. can we beat our current opponents. if we make the elite 8 or final 4, then this year is better. if not., last year's team was better.
Remember Vince not evening starting last year this time. Think he is playing very well and guy I want a free throw line crunch time for sure.
Last year team better because they beat Michigan State???? If we lose to MSU(and I think we will) no shame losing to a team that's probably top 3 in country. You should watch them play more, that team is extremely good. So are we though and again will take the 4 seniors on this team. Going to be a fun year.
You understand that this year's MSU team is significantly better than last year's, right? Their wounded have returned and they added a terrific post player in JJJ. I would contend that this year's MSU team would beat last year's Purdue team. So, year-to-year, comparing against MSU might not be a level measure.
Favorite example of Cline defending and his blocks in the Butler game. Never thought he would be able to block dribble drive shots in a college game! He is much better athletically this year than last year.
I would ask the purpose or reasoning behind your original question.
Are you trying to compare the two teams, and use that comparison to predict the future? if so, then you also have to compare your opponents as well. MSU is much better than last year. Will Purdue win the BIG 10 this year? if not, then are we as good as last year's team? Will this year's team make the sweet 16? will they go farther? if they don't make the sweet 16, then in my opinion, last year's team was better. When comparing teams with their past, I look at the end result team accomplishments rather than mid year or individual player improvements..
to me, simply stated, if this team doesn't make the sweet 16, it doesn't matter how great they are individually or what their team record is, or who they beat during the regular season; they won't be as good as last year. And if the team has 12 losses, but makes the Final 4, I'd say this team was much better than last year.
I believe it's a little early to compare the two teams.
Are you trying to compare the two teams, and use that comparison to predict the future? if so, then you also have to compare your opponents as well. MSU is much better than last year. Will Purdue win the BIG 10 this year? if not, then are we as good as last year's team? Will this year's team make the sweet 16? will they go farther? if they don't make the sweet 16, then in my opinion, last year's team was better. When comparing teams with their past, I look at the end result team accomplishments rather than mid year or individual player improvements..
to me, simply stated, if this team doesn't make the sweet 16, it doesn't matter how great they are individually or what their team record is, or who they beat during the regular season; they won't be as good as last year. And if the team has 12 losses, but makes the Final 4, I'd say this team was much better than last year.
I believe it's a little early to compare the two teams.
We'll definitively know at end of year.
Big 10 reg season title + S16. Beat that and this team was better
Big 10 reg season title + S16. Beat that and this team was better
That's interesting logic. While the Big Ten is not deep, it has a very good team at the top in Michigan State. That wasn't the case last year - there were good teams, but not top 5 teams. So we could actually be a better team, but not win the Big Ten regular season title. Keep in mind last year, we lost in our first game in the BTT too. Room to improve there.
Certainly not a criticism of Vince - just know what he's capable of. When it comes to conference/NCAA Tournament, want to make sure he goes out making his mark because he truly can. He is one of the most unselfish guys I've seen play. I was shocked when I saw he was averaging over 8 rebounds a game.
I get it. I think VE is a team guy not a go to guy. I think he can take over in spurts but I love the way the guy is playing this season and overall production. Huge important cog in the wheel for success and can go far the way hes currently contributing IMO.
We could have a better record in The Big this year and still not be first.
I love VE, and I love his game. My biggest frustration in prior years has been his dogged determination to "take over" a game. Too often it seemed like he forced shots and didn't let the game come to him.
so, if we had a better record but didn't finish first, would you say we had a better team and accomplished more? I would say NO ! I believe championships are more important than a season's record. if we had a better record, but lost to IU, would you still say this was a better team?
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