“That’s one of the dumbest things ever....”

[Mgkcbb]

Wow! Painter at presser talking about what he looks for when recruiting...Making a statement regarding how many “stars” a future recruit might have. Another jewel of a presser. Be sure not to miss it!

Ive been saying this for 2 years. Recruiting rankings dont matter. HAARMS is just the latest example in the same world of a Dakota Mathias to prove that. Tennessee has 0 top 100 recruits and theyre a top 5 team.

Hell, look at Indiana with Romeo Langford. Look at Maryland with all their top 100 guys and 5 stat Jalen Smith.

MSU has multiple highly rated guys behind Kenny Goins. 1 of Purdues best pkayers is Grady Eifert. Got to have guys who understand the game of basketball and how to win.

 

[Dakota Girl]

I was just using that post as an example of budget being used as an excuse. Is it a valid excuse? It might be.

I understand. I have no idea if it’s valid myself.
Either way I’m very happy to watch this team play.
Painter is definitely demonstrating the ability to maximize player development, and get his players to not just accept but to thrive in roles.

 

[mathboy]

I was just using that post as an example of budget being used as an excuse. Is it a valid excuse? It might be.

Classic Iron. Classic troll.

 

[BoilerIron]

you see nothing but upside, when there's all kinds of downside.

Ask any Illini fan what they'd rather have. (Hint: my guess is, many would take Purdue's success over the past 40 years in a heartbeat.)

Ask fans from any number of college basketball programs who cannot sustain success.

It has nothing to do with settling, or accepting, or any other such b#llsh*t.

It's times like these I'm thankful we have sane people running the athletic department.

You're willing to roll dice at the craps table, with the illusion everything will be better if we just "will" it to be so. Or, demand it. Or, even "expect" it.

Again, I'm not in the fire Painter crowd at this time.

It would be interesting to hear an Illinois fan's take on your hypothetical. We've certainly had more success recently, but they have multiple final 4s and a runner up in that time. I could see it going either way.

Life is all about risks. I'm certainly the more aggressive type when it comes to making risks.

 

[DAG10]

Purdue's basketball budget, as of the latest numbers in summer 2018, is 9th in the Big Ten and not in the top 40 nationally.

When Painter almost left for Mizzou, one of the examples cited as a frustration was RENTAL CAR restrictions that coaches had placed on them by the athletic department. That is the kind of BS that had to be cleared up. It wasn't "big picture" items that made us competitive with Michigan State. That was just 7 years ago! When we would have been starting to recruit guys like Vince Edwards. It's not that long ago.

As of today, Purdue has the smallest basketball staff in the Big Ten.

It's not a make believe talking point, it's reality that we don't invest in the basketball program as we should to be a championship program, within the Big Ten and let alone nationally.

I know that you bring this up frequently...and, that there is even some validity to it...but, I would also suggest as a counterpoint that there are about 6 other programs that are investing way too much given what you have shared and getting next to nothing to show for those investments (which, could be the case for Purdue as well if it were to invest more, never mind substantially more).

What constitutes investing as well? If salary is a component...I don't know how relevant that ultimately is. Advertising is likely a component, and, far more of an irrelevant one.

Until/unless I know all that goes into the component of "overall budget", I am not as inclined to buy it as a reason that Painter/Purdue are not able to land more talented players.

Has Painter/Purdue overachieved in light of the investment in them relative to others...certainly...but, that is no different than others having underachieved (in terms of wins/losses at least)...but there are absolutely other factors (involved in both for that matter).

 

[BoilerIron]

I understand. I have no idea if it’s valid myself.
Either way I’m very happy to watch this team play.
Painter is definitely demonstrating the ability to maximize player development, and get his players to not just accept but to thrive in roles.

No arguments there.

 

[BoilerIron]

Classic Iron. Classic troll.

I've got no interest in an immature back and forth tonight. If you would like to discuss the current topic in a civil manner, I'm all for it. If not, im going to have to bid you goodnight.

 

[Purdue85]

Again, I'm not in the fire Painter crowd at this time.

It would be interesting to hear an Illinois fan's take on your hypothetical. We've certainly had more success recently, but they have multiple final 4s and a runner up in that time. I could see it going either way.

Life is all about risks. I'm certainly the more aggressive type when it comes to making risks.

I call B.S.

That's all you're envisioning... a scenario where Painter is fired. Even if he continuously wins 30+ games a season, continues to run a spotless program, recruits these model players, fills Mackey Arena to the rafters, has us a top-20/top-10 program, yet fails to meet your arbitrary standard (FF/E8), which gets us NOTHING. Nobody really remembers who made the E8 in 2015. Or the FF 5 years ago.

Yeah, you're all about taking risk. You're brave at the gaming table when you're playing with someone else's money.

Edit: I work with some Illini fans. They won't even watch the games. Cannot stomach what's happened on their court. Yeah... it'd be interesting what the sentiment would be...

 

[ChoiceBeef]

I call B.S.

That's all you're envisioning... a scenario where Painter is fired. Even if he continuously wins 30+ games a season, continues to run a spotless program, recruits these model players, fills Mackey Arena to the rafters, has us a top-20/top-10 program, yet fails to meet your arbitrary standard (FF/E8), which gets us NOTHING. Nobody really remembers who made the E8 in 2015. Or the FF 5 years ago.

Yeah, you're all about taking risk. You're brave at the gaming table when you're playing with someone else's money.

Edit: I work with some Illini fans. They won't even watch the games. Cannot stomach what's happened on their court. Yeah... it'd be interesting what the sentiment would be...

He gave an answer to a hypothetical question - give it a rest.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

I've got no interest in an immature back and forth tonight. If you would like to discuss the current topic in a civil manner, I'm all for it. If not, im going to have to bid you goodnight.

If you can't win an argument scream troll - that's what my dad taught me

 

[BoilerIron]

I call B.S.

That's all you're envisioning... a scenario where Painter is fired. Even if he continuously wins 30+ games a season, continues to run a spotless program, recruits these model players, fills Mackey Arena to the rafters, has us a top-20/top-10 program, yet fails to meet your arbitrary standard (FF/E8), which gets us NOTHING. Nobody really remembers who made the E8 in 2015. Or the FF 5 years ago.

Yeah, you're all about taking risk. You're brave at the gaming table when you're playing with someone else's money.

Edit: I work with some Illini fans. They won't even watch the games. Cannot stomach what's happened on their court. Yeah... it'd be interesting what the sentiment would be...

No, I would love for Purude to do all of the things you mentioned above and get to an EE and FF. Getting more top end talent will go a long way towards getting there.

Again, I'm not going to get into an immature back and forth tonight. If you would like to continue this conversation in a civil manner, I'm all for it. If not I'll have to bid you goodnight.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

For anyone who is interested in what he said

 

[DannyGranger]

Imagine if, right now, you had Weatherford to bring off the bench to pair with Nojel in the event a team has two players playing at a high level. It would potentially bring an opposing offense to an absolute halt.

Lol, I'd rather not.

And of course those are bad decisions. So what, even the best recruiters have them. Ok to admit that not everyone works out. But yeah- bad decisions

 

[DannyGranger]

It's okay. It's basically where we have been, though. How long is too long to wait for a FF or even an E8?

I will follow up your question with a question. What would your opinion be if Painter were here for the next 20 years, but we never got passed the S16? Let's assume he is at his current pace (2 B1G championships, 1 BTT, and 4 S16 in 13 years), so in the next 20 years we would have 3ish B1G championships, 2 BTT championships, and 7ish S16 appearances. What would your thoughts be on those 20 years?

As you know, I'm not in the fire Painter crowd, but it is my opinion that we need to find a way to recruit at a higher level to reach the E8/FF/NC.

E8 don't matter. But final 4s are hard. So yeah I think I'd be fine with that in 20 years. Not super happy about it, depending on how good year 19 & 20 are but fine with it.

 

[BoilerIron]

E8 don't matter. But final 4s are hard. So yeah I think I'd be fine with that in 20 years. Not super happy about it, depending on how good year 19 & 20 are but fine with it.

That's a very fair assessment.

 

[Purdue85]

He gave an answer to a hypothetical question - give it a rest.

Why?

it wasn't a response to JUST a hypothetical question, it was a hypothetical question directly in response to his post/position.

His publicly-posted position is open to challenge, no? Or, are we only allowing his POV?

If you feel the need to step in for his defense, you might wish to counsel him on what he posts. Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a thought....

 

[New Pal Boiler]

After reading Ibodel’s post I think he is making a two level statement on budget. He acknowledges that the current budget is better than it was roughly 8 to 10 years back but not as good as the highest end programs today. Kinda similar to recent performance. Very good but not the elite of the game. Actually, it seems like we out perform our budget level.

If it’s really 9th in the B1G, I would not characterize that as very good. But thanks to the The Morgue and the Haze, funding is needed elsewhere at the moment.

 

[Purdue85]

No, I would love for Purude to do all of the things you mentioned above and get to an EE and FF. Getting more top end talent will go a long way towards getting there.

Again, I'm not going to get into an immature back and forth tonight. If you would like to continue this conversation in a civil manner, I'm all for it. If not I'll have to bid you goodnight.

Immature is being unable to defend your position. Challenging someone is not immature. If you need to play the "immature" card, you're not operating from a position of strength.

There's absolutely nothing uncivil about my challenge to you. It's duly noted you felt the need to play it that way, 'tho.

I get it: it's uncomfortable to be called on it. But, you choose to post your position on a public forum.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Purdue's basketball budget, as of the latest numbers in summer 2018, is 9th in the Big Ten and not in the top 40 nationally.

When Painter almost left for Mizzou, one of the examples cited as a frustration was RENTAL CAR restrictions that coaches had placed on them by the athletic department. That is the kind of BS that had to be cleared up. It wasn't "big picture" items that made us competitive with Michigan State. That was just 7 years ago! When we would have been starting to recruit guys like Vince Edwards. It's not that long ago.

As of today, Purdue has the smallest basketball staff in the Big Ten.

It's not a make believe talking point, it's reality that we don't invest in the basketball program as we should to be a championship program, within the Big Ten and let alone nationally.

What was our BB revenue? Or can you just post the link? Not questioning your numbers but just want to see details.

 

[70boiler]

...Actually, it seems like we out perform our budget level.

I believe I hear a sound... YES, yes it's a bell ringing... DING! DING! DING!

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Why?

it wasn't a response to JUST a hypothetical question, it was a hypothetical question directly in response to his post/position.

His publicly-posted position is open to challenge, no? Or, are we only allowing his POV?

If you feel the need to step in for his defense, you might wish to counsel him on what he posts. Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a thought....

I’m not but watching you two dumb$hit$ wreck another decent post with your back and forth is becoming annoying.

All the questions on this board are hypotheticals with varying levels of conjecture. No one here is becoming the next AD or coach at Purdue. We are just expressing opinions.

 

[BoilerIron]

Immature is being unable to defend your position. Challenging someone is not immature. If you need to play the "immature" card, you're not operating from a position of strength.

There's absolutely nothing uncivil about my challenge to you. It's duly noted you felt the need to play it that way, 'tho.

I get it: it's uncomfortable to be called on it. But, you choose to post your position on a public forum.

I've already defended my position many times. I'll state it again, though. IMO, tournament results matter above all other results.

Your tone suggests you aren't trying to have a civil conversation. You seem a little agitated. Maybe I'm just misreading your posts. Apologies if that's the case.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I know that you bring this up frequently...and, that there is even some validity to it...but, I would also suggest as a counterpoint that there are about 6 other programs that are investing way too much given what you have shared and getting next to nothing to show for those investments (which, could be the case for Purdue as well if it were to invest more, never mind substantially more).

What constitutes investing as well? If salary is a component...I don't know how relevant that ultimately is. Advertising is likely a component, and, far more of an irrelevant one.

Until/unless I know all that goes into the component of "overall budget", I am not as inclined to buy it as a reason that Painter/Purdue are not able to land more talented players.

Has Painter/Purdue overachieved in light of the investment in them relative to others...certainly...but, that is no different than others having underachieved (in terms of wins/losses at least)...but there are absolutely other factors (involved in both for that matter).

And I’ve debated budgets with lbodel many times. He will often state that schools handle budgets differently and it’s not apples to apples. Lbodel’s favorite example is who pays for parking attendants, the AD or the school? So budgets are misleading. Lbodel - not calling you out here but I wanted to make the point you regularly make.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Immature is being unable to defend your position. Challenging someone is not immature. If you need to play the "immature" card, you're not operating from a position of strength.

There's absolutely nothing uncivil about my challenge to you. It's duly noted you felt the need to play it that way, 'tho.

I get it: it's uncomfortable to be called on it. But, you choose to post your position on a public forum.

Sometimes just let it go man.

 

[Purdue85]

I’m not but watching you two dumb$hit$ wreck another decent post with your back and forth is becoming annoying.

All the questions on this board are hypotheticals with varying levels of conjecture. No one here is becoming the next AD or coach at Purdue. We are just expressing opinions.

"You two dumb$hit$"... yet, you chose to try to shut me down on the topic.

Uh-huh...

 

[Purdue85]

I've already defended my position many times. I'll state it again, though. IMO, tournament results matter above all other results.

Your tone suggests you aren't trying to have a civil conversation. You seem a little agitated. Maybe I'm just misreading your posts. Apologies if that's the case.

No, I had no "tone," nor was I agitated. But, you chose to take it there. That's not on me.

 

[70boiler]

...I work with some Illini fans. They won't even watch the games. Cannot stomach what's happened on their court. Yeah... it'd be interesting what the sentiment would be...

I have a friends, husband and wife, both athletes at UI, basketball and swimming, and are strong supporters of the University, but are quite open in their envy of the Purdue program.

 

[BoilerIron]

No, I had no "tone," nor was I agitated. But, you chose to take it there. That's not on me.

Okay, sorry for the confusion! Have a good night!

 

[DAG10]

And I’ve debated budgets with lbodel many times. He will often state that schools handle budgets differently and it’s not apples to apples. Lbodel’s favorite example is who pays for parking attendants, the AD or the school? So budgets are misleading. Lbodel - not calling you out here but I wanted to make the point you regularly make.

Which is what I was getting at.

I think we can all agree that investing more into the program would not be a bad thing...and, that Purdue (especially in the past, and very much especially under the previous AD) did not invest as they should have...but, I don't believe that who pays for parking attendants, who has more advertising, or who gives away 2,000 bobbleheads at a game opposed to 10,000 is what decides where elite players end up going...or has any impact on the success of a program in March.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

"You two dumb$hit$"... yet, you chose to try to shut me down on the topic.

Uh-huh...

Interesting you didn’t deny wrecking posts with your constant bickering.

Carry on.

 

[70boiler]

... IMO, tournament results matter above all other results.

Right... I pine for an Elite Eight followed by 10 years of 6-24. Can hardly wait to crow about our EE.

 

[Purdue85]

Interesting you didn’t deny wrecking posts with your constant bickering.

Carry on.

I'm trying to figure out what you're accomplishing here...

 

[ChoiceBeef]

I'm trying to figure out what you're accomplishing here...

The fact this is that challenging for you is telling.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Which is what I was getting at.

I think we can all agree that investing more into the program would not be a bad thing...and, that Purdue (especially in the past, and very much especially under the previous AD) did not invest as they should have...but, I don't believe that who pays for parking attendants, who has more advertising, or who gives away 2,000 bobbleheads at a game opposed to 10,000 is what decides where elite players end up going...or has any impact on the success of a program in March.

Think recruiting support staff. There was a great piece on Kirby Smarts recruiting machine on SI.com a year or so ago. I’ll try to find it and link it. Money absolutely matters.

 

[Pete's Hammer]

Yes, I would fire him if he hasnt gotten to the FF or Elite 8 in 24 years coaching Purdue lol.

Well, that's because you're not very bright.

It's unrealistic to expect a perennial top 20 program to make the FF or E8 in the next 20 years? Doesn't seem like that big of a stretch to me.

Again, that's because you're not very bright.

Yes. It's unrealistic to "expect" anything from a group of teens and early 20 somethings. If you can't enjoy a basketball season, in it's entirety, you seriously need to do something else with your time.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Think recruiting support staff. There was a great piece on Kirby Smarts recruiting machine on SI.com a year or so ago. I’ll try to find it and link it. Money absolutely matters.

It was Yahoo sports actually https://sports.yahoo.com/georgia-ne...ck-sabans-process-game-changer-050129185.html

Think of what having an Eron Hodges on Painter’s Staff would do.

 

[DAG10]

Think recruiting support staff. There was a great piece on Kirby Smarts recruiting machine on SI.com a year or so ago. I’ll try to find it and link it. Money absolutely matters.

I don't disagree on the whole with the premise, but, let's not think that Kirby Smart is struggling by any means with recruiting, and, that it has nothing to do with him directly and his staff...and their success...and the program, etc.

Cheating matters as well...and, may even matter in Kirby's case specifically for that matter.

I would like to read the article though if you do find it.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Think recruiting support staff. There was a great piece on Kirby Smarts recruiting machine on SI.com a year or so ago. I’ll try to find it and link it. Money absolutely matters.

It was a Yahoo piece actually:

https://sports.yahoo.com/georgia-ne...ck-sabans-process-game-changer-050129185.html

Here’s another quick piece showing Kirby flying all over in a helicopter visiting a bunch of recruits in the same day:

https://ugawire.usatoday.com/2019/0...art-back-in-helicopter-for-recruiting-visits/

 

[New Pal Boiler]

It was Yahoo sports actually https://sports.yahoo.com/georgia-ne...ck-sabans-process-game-changer-050129185.html

Think of what having an Eron Hodges on Painter’s Staff would do.

Haha - you beat me to it.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I don't disagree on the whole with the premise, but, let's not think that Kirby Smart is struggling by any means with recruiting, and, that it has nothing to do with him directly and his staff...and their success...and the program, etc.

Cheating matters as well...and, may even matter in Kirby's case specifically for that matter.

I would like to read the article though if you do find it.

Choice Beef beat me to it. Worth the read.