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Serious question. Do you think the DEMS will make a move to either put a really big tax on 401K owner with serious balances and/or try to legislate so that they don't get their social security. An example might be, just for illustrative purposes, if ones 401 is, say, > $3 milion either you elect for withdrawls to be taxed at a very high rate, say 70% or alternatively you forgo all social security payments or some combo?

I could easily see that being floated. The kicker would be at what level would this start? $1 miliion, $2, =$3?
 
Tony79 said:
Serious question. Do you think the DEMS will make a move to either put a really big tax on 401K owner with serious balances and/or try to legislate so that they don't get their social security. An example might be, just for illustrative purposes, if ones 401 is, say, > $3 milion either you elect for withdrawls to be taxed at a very high rate, say 70% or alternatively you forgo all social security payments or some combo?

I could easily see that being floated. The kicker would be at what level would this start? $1 miliion, $2, =$3?
Click to expand...
$10,000
 
Tony79 said:
Serious question. Do you think the DEMS will make a move to either put a really big tax on 401K owner with serious balances and/or try to legislate so that they don't get their social security. An example might be, just for illustrative purposes, if ones 401 is, say, > $3 milion either you elect for withdrawls to be taxed at a very high rate, say 70% or alternatively you forgo all social security payments or some combo?

I could easily see that being floated. The kicker would be at what level would this start? $1 miliion, $2, =$3?
Click to expand...

No, but I do expect a possible attempt to revoke the 2017 tax cuts.
 
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Tony79 said:
Serious question. Do you think the DEMS will make a move to either put a really big tax on 401K owner with serious balances and/or try to legislate so that they don't get their social security. An example might be, just for illustrative purposes, if ones 401 is, say, > $3 milion either you elect for withdrawls to be taxed at a very high rate, say 70% or alternatively you forgo all social security payments or some combo?

I could easily see that being floated. The kicker would be at what level would this start? $1 miliion, $2, =$3?
Click to expand...
So you are worried that a nation burdened with the cost of an aging population will see some solution to that aging population in taxing it's aging population?

Now, dipping into the SS trust cookie jar since the '80's will be a problem, I would guess other solutions will be found.
 
kescwi said:
So you are worried that a nation burdened with the cost of an aging population will see some solution to that aging population in taxing it's aging population?

Now, dipping into the SS trust cookie jar since the '80's will be a problem, I would guess other solutions will be found.
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I don’t know. That’s where a lot of the $$$$ is though. You have to admit there is a faction that thinks the $$$$ accumulated by the boomers was not earned.
 
Tony79 said:
I don’t know. That’s where a lot of the $$$$ is though. You have to admit there is a faction that thinks the $$$$ accumulated by the boomers was not earned.
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Yep, just like the money 40 years ago was in pensions and SS. I would guess you were out front fighting to protect those working class benefits so you should have nothing to be concerned about re your investments. As you said, you earned those, you didn't benifit from any company screwing over pensioners or any tax breaks funded by dipping into SS, you will be okay.
 
indy35 said:
For a general election yeah, but for the primary, I don’t think so. The Republican base is still his.
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Agree, but as BHO is alleged to have said, don't underestimate Joe's ability to eff things up.
 
kescwi said:
Yep, just like the money 40 years ago was in pensions and SS. I would guess you were out front fighting to protect those working class benefits so you should have nothing to be concerned about re your investments. As you said, you earned those, you didn't benifit from any company screwing over pensioners or any tax breaks funded by dipping into SS, you will be okay.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. I’m 63 and have worked full time since the summer I graduated from HS. My grandfather was a janitor at Purdue; my dad was a school teacher and my mom was a very bad alcoholic, The most money my dad made was $28,000 a year.
I pretty much supported my parents financially for two decades on top of putting two kids through college. My 91 year old dad is still alive and is in a nursing home. After my mom died in 2007, as an only child I took care of my dad, who literally had no assets and lived on just under $1,900 a month. He lived with us for just under a year at one point.

My wife has severe mental illness and has not been able to work since 2017 and will not be able to work. I never had a job where I had a defined benefit pension. I think the most matching I ever got was 3%. I held two jobs where I did the best I could to make sure our most poorly paid folks had the same benefits I had. So all but about 5-6 percent if what I’ve accrued I’ve saved. I paid the max into SS from 1993 to 2017. I’m still working but make a tiny fraction of what I used to make.

I guess you’re going to have to explain to me how I was involved in anything above you were ranting about. Does your irrational stereotyping of people like me somehow make you feel better about yourself? I’m not sure I get it.
 
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Tony79 said:
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. I’m 63 and have worked full time since the summer I graduated from HS. My grandfather was a janitor at Purdue; my dad was a school teacher and my mom was a very bad alcoholic, The most money my dad made was $28,000 a year.
I pretty much supported my parents financially for two decades on top of putting two kids through college. My 91 year old dad is still alive and is in a nursing home. After my mom died in 2007, as an only child I took care of my dad, who literally had no assets and lived on just under $1,900 a month. He lived with us for just under a year at one point.

My wife has severe mental illness and has not been able to work since 2017 and will not be able to work. I never had a job where I had a defined benefit pension. I think the most matching I ever got was 3%. I held two jobs where I did the best I could to make sure our most poorly paid folks had the same benefits I had. So all but about 5-6 percent if what I’ve accrued I’ve saved. I paid the max into SS from 1993 to 2017. I’m still working but make a tiny fraction of what I used to make.

I guess you’re going to have to explain to me how I was involved in anything above you were ranting about. Does your irrational stereotyping of people like me somehow make you feel better about yourself? I’m not sure I get it.
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Tony, that’s what many folks on this board are wont to do. You’ll be immediately attacked.....
 
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Tony79 said:
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. I’m 63 and have worked full time since the summer I graduated from HS. My grandfather was a janitor at Purdue; my dad was a school teacher and my mom was a very bad alcoholic, The most money my dad made was $28,000 a year.
I pretty much supported my parents financially for two decades on top of putting two kids through college. My 91 year old dad is still alive and is in a nursing home. After my mom died in 2007, as an only child I took care of my dad, who literally had no assets and lived on just under $1,900 a month. He lived with us for just under a year at one point.

My wife has severe mental illness and has not been able to work since 2017 and will not be able to work. I never had a job where I had a defined benefit pension. I think the most matching I ever got was 3%. I held two jobs where I did the best I could to make sure our most poorly paid folks had the same benefits I had. So all but about 5-6 percent if what I’ve accrued I’ve saved. I paid the max into SS from 1993 to 2017. I’m still working but make a tiny fraction of what I used to make.

I guess you’re going to have to explain to me how I was involved in anything above you were ranting about. Does your irrational stereotyping of people like me somehow make you feel better about yourself? I’m not sure I get it.
Click to expand...
You are heroic.God Bless you always and I hope things work out well for you.
 
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Tony79 said:
I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. I’m 63 and have worked full time since the summer I graduated from HS. My grandfather was a janitor at Purdue; my dad was a school teacher and my mom was a very bad alcoholic, The most money my dad made was $28,000 a year.
I pretty much supported my parents financially for two decades on top of putting two kids through college. My 91 year old dad is still alive and is in a nursing home. After my mom died in 2007, as an only child I took care of my dad, who literally had no assets and lived on just under $1,900 a month. He lived with us for just under a year at one point.

My wife has severe mental illness and has not been able to work since 2017 and will not be able to work. I never had a job where I had a defined benefit pension. I think the most matching I ever got was 3%. I held two jobs where I did the best I could to make sure our most poorly paid folks had the same benefits I had. So all but about 5-6 percent if what I’ve accrued I’ve saved. I paid the max into SS from 1993 to 2017. I’m still working but make a tiny fraction of what I used to make.

I guess you’re going to have to explain to me how I was involved in anything above you were ranting about. Does your irrational stereotyping of people like me somehow make you feel better about yourself? I’m not sure I get it.
Click to expand...
What does any of this have to with your concern that "DEMS' are coming for your 401k? They won't, there are forces that are/will because 401k represents a large pool of cash, just like pensions and SS, but it will be private companies trying to get at it, not the "DEMS," Too many Americans rely on it today and there is a good chance it won't be enough for many.

Maybe I'm more cynical about it, having benefited from the bubble and the housing collapse while being aware of the why and how both came to be. I know all my investments wouldn't be where they are today if the Fed hadn't/doesn't take unprecedented steps to save the markets and deficits actually mattered. I don't need to pat myself on the back or feel guilt for simply playing the game by the rules. And I'm not worried that "DEMS" are coming after anything.
 
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kescwi said:
What does any of this have to with your concern that "DEMS' are coming for your 401k? They won't, there are forces that are/will because 401k represents a large pool of cash, just like pensions and SS, but it will be private companies trying to get at it, not the "DEMS," Too many Americans rely on it today and there is a good chance it won't be enough for many.

Maybe I'm more cynical about it, having benefited from the bubble and the housing collapse while being aware of the why and how both came to be. I know all my investments wouldn't be where they are today if the Fed hadn't/doesn't take unprecedented steps to save the markets and deficits actually mattered. I don't need to pat myself on the back or feel guilt for simply playing the game by the rules. And I'm not worried that "DEMS" are coming after anything.
Click to expand...

Well said. Many have done well within the rules of the game as they currently are. The rules are skewed and some of them outright suck and have been buoyed by bailouts (aka corporate & wall st welfare).

One of the rules of the game --- is that the rules can and will change. Those that follow those changes and adjust will continue to win.

Don't worry about the rules changing. Just continue to learn and adapt.

The other option is to get out of the current game and convert your chips into another asset class.

But as long as you have assets, you have chips. You should expect to be moving them from time-to-time.
 
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kescwi said:
What does any of this have to with your concern that "DEMS' are coming for your 401k? They won't, there are forces that are/will because 401k represents a large pool of cash, just like pensions and SS, but it will be private companies trying to get at it, not the "DEMS," Too many Americans rely on it today and there is a good chance it won't be enough for many.

Maybe I'm more cynical about it, having benefited from the bubble and the housing collapse while being aware of the why and how both came to be. I know all my investments wouldn't be where they are today if the Fed hadn't/doesn't take unprecedented steps to save the markets and deficits actually mattered. I don't need to pat myself on the back or feel guilt for simply playing the game by the rules. And I'm not worried that "DEMS" are coming after anything.
Click to expand...
I am not a mental health professional, but it appears by somehow blaming me or people like me with your rant above that you are projecting your dissonance onto me. While I have pretty much outed myself on here and KHC (a lot of people on here know who I am and my work history), I DO NOT appreciate attempts to be bullied on here by strangers who have NO idea what I have been through trying to keep my family intact under way less than ideal circumstances, and I am sure there are others who have been through more difficult struggles.

I am sure I am not the only person on here who has had his/her financial future and family at least semi-destroyed by either personal or immediate family health issues. Therefore, I am extremely worried about being categorized as "rich" and then have what remains taxed to death under some social justice guise. Having been around he health care system for 40 years, I guarantee you my wife's issues are every bit if not more debilitating than a lot of physical health issues yet she's been denied SSDI. Why? Because mental health issues cannot be quantified or measured objectively. Where's the social justice in that? What will happen to her if something happens to me? Why is my or your definition of social justice any more right than the others? I really don't want to have to work until I am 70, but we all have to do what's best for our families.

I simply asked a question about a concern that many have about future taxation of the largest asset that many people have. I don't appreciate you or anyone else attacking me with your projected guilt. Let's leave it this way. Going forward, don't punch me and I won't punch back.
 
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Tony79 said:
I am not a mental health professional, but it appears by somehow blaming me or people like me with your rant above that you are projecting your dissonance onto me. While I have pretty much outed myself on here and KHC (a lot of people on here know who I am and my work history), I DO NOT appreciate attempts to be bullied on here by strangers who have NO idea what I have been through trying to keep my family intact under way less than ideal circumstances, and I am sure there are others who have been through more difficult struggles.

I am sure I am not the only person on here who has had his/her financial future and family at least semi-destroyed by either personal or immediate family health issues. Therefore, I am extremely worried about being categorized as "rich" and then have what remains taxed to death under some social justice guise. Having been around he health care system for 40 years, I guarantee you my wife's issues are every bit if not more debilitating than a lot of physical health issues yet she's been denied SSDI. Why? Because mental health issues cannot be quantified or measured objectively. Where's the social justice in that? What will happen to her if something happens to me? Why is my or your definition of social justice any more right than the others? I really don't want to have to work until I am 70, but we all have to do what's best for our families.

I simply asked a question about a concern that many have about future taxation of the largest asset that many people have. I don't appreciate you or anyone else attacking me with your projected guilt. Let's leave it this way. Going forward, don't punch me and I won't punch back.
Click to expand...
WTF are you going on about? Punch all you f'in want, I'll stand by what I said, "DEMS" aren't coming after your 401k, if you see that as "bulling" you then I don't know what to tell.
 
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Tony79 said:
I am not a mental health professional, but it appears by somehow blaming me or people like me with your rant above that you are projecting your dissonance onto me. While I have pretty much outed myself on here and KHC (a lot of people on here know who I am and my work history), I DO NOT appreciate attempts to be bullied on here by strangers who have NO idea what I have been through trying to keep my family intact under way less than ideal circumstances, and I am sure there are others who have been through more difficult struggles.

I am sure I am not the only person on here who has had his/her financial future and family at least semi-destroyed by either personal or immediate family health issues. Therefore, I am extremely worried about being categorized as "rich" and then have what remains taxed to death under some social justice guise. Having been around he health care system for 40 years, I guarantee you my wife's issues are every bit if not more debilitating than a lot of physical health issues yet she's been denied SSDI. Why? Because mental health issues cannot be quantified or measured objectively. Where's the social justice in that? What will happen to her if something happens to me? Why is my or your definition of social justice any more right than the others? I really don't want to have to work until I am 70, but we all have to do what's best for our families.

I simply asked a question about a concern that many have about future taxation of the largest asset that many people have. I don't appreciate you or anyone else attacking me with your projected guilt. Let's leave it this way. Going forward, don't punch me and I won't punch back.
Click to expand...

Seems like your greater concern then should be about the US healthcare system, mental health coverage, and making sure that you and families like yours aren't bankrupted or crippled by a flawed healthcare system.

It is like worrying about whether you have enough bandaids to keep you from bleeding out while the government and the US healthcare system cuts off your leg.
 
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