While we may disagree on policy
- Thread starter BuilderBob6
- Start date
Oh JFC. This has been explained for months. You still don't know the difference because the best you......people.....can do is look at freakin pictures.
I don't know if Obama built the cages but he did put some kids in cages. That's where the similarity ends.
From one of your articles.
Though the photos are nearly identical to those from 2014, there is one key difference between them: the 2014 photos showed only children who arrived at the border unaccompanied. The 2018 photos also show families that have been separated from one another.
That difference is significant — while unaccompanied children in 2014 knew what to expect when they arrived at the border and were taken to the holding facilities, the children who have been separated from their parents are often much younger, and had not expected to be taken away from their families.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...-trump-again-falsely-says-obama-had-family-s/
"When I became president, President Obama had a separation policy. I didn’t have it. He had it. I brought the families together. I’m the one that put them together."
Lie. Trump instituted the child separation policy.
That zerohedge link is a joke. Try to read it and follow their logic. There is none.
Nice attempt to move the goalposts. My comment was only about who put the cages in, which you tried to gloss over. Obama had them put in, and he used them for the very same reason Trump has had to use them.
This child separation policy was not a good idea on its face, but the truth is that is not typically happening now. The kids in the facilities separated from their families now (often parents are likely still in the home countries) are there because authorities cannot ascertain who the parents of the children actually are, or the kids came without their legal guardians, or they were brought by mules or traffickers.
Spare me the bullshit about the Trump Administration separating kids from families now. It's not happening, and for you to say otherwise is disingenuous.
Exactly. Personally, I see someone getting offended by the use of the term "concentration camp" and I see someone whose recall of history isn't very deep. "Concentration" itself means you're concentrating a portion of the population or a specific group in one area - a camp. Call it an internment camp, concentration camp, whatever, it's appropriate. It's not a death camp, work camp, etc., certainly.
FDR put US citizens of Japanese and German (a few considered disloyal to the USA) descent into camps. There were also non-citizens of Japanese and German descent who had been living in the USA put into these camps as well.
It absolutely fits. I don't think you and others like it because you want to believe we're better than that. Illegal or not, this isn't how we're supposed to treat people. (FTR on a loosely similar subject for some perspective, I don't really care if we abuse the heck out of the terror suspects in Gitmo, but they should get a trial at some point.)
Disingenuous? So your post about Obama having had the cages built in 2014 was for informational purposes only? You weren't trying in any way to minimize the current conditions through whataboutism? Please forgive me.
Kids were in cages in both admins. Kids weren't taken care of properly under both admins. Once you get past those statements and start looking at the details there is no comparison.
absurd comparison. The nazi bs is so tired and lazy.
- CBP said last month it takes the allegations seriously and that the migrants have been getting medical care and three meals a day. The agency conceded that its short-term holding facilities were not designed to hold "vulnerable populations" and said it urgently needed "additional humanitarian funding to manage the crisis."
- President Trump on Monday signed a bill to send $4.6 billion in emergency funding to the border.
Yeah, except I've said that comparing this to death camps is ridiculous. I'm just arguing semantics on one hand, with an eye toward the fact that at some point, regular German citizens didn't have an issue with rounding up the Jews for holding until they could figure out what to do with them, either. I don't think we're anywhere close to that, and it's not a fair comparison with respect to these camps, but we're still "concentrating" certain people in "camps" whether you like that terminology or not.
No. I was trying to make the valid point that Obama did basically the same thing Trump is doing now. Earlier people like you were trying to assert Trump was doing something unprecedented with the handling of these illegal kids. Looking at what details? Trump is NOT separating kids from their families. The situation is as bad right now as ever and the influx is stretching gov’t resources thin. Yet somehow geniuses like you think this is all Trump’s fault.
ya but "we" didn't go rip people from their homes and force them there. They did it themselves. They aren't supposed to be here, I don't even know why we admit them at all.
Eff’d up immigration laws that neither party in Congress seems to want to fix.
even R's dont want to be the first to pass a shoot to kill bill
The "details" are that this admin is violating the asylum laws. Kids are staying in these cages longer than the law allows. Families are being separated. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1025376
You're trying to equate the policies of the two admins because they both had cages.
Since you didn't answer the previous time I asked, I'll try again.
Who is responsible for setting immigration policy? Who has made it their signature policy?
Trump wants one of two things. Immigration legislation that gives him EVERYTHING he wants or no fix at all. No solution to the problem allows him to continue to use it for for political purposes. He thinks he wins either way.....which is the point.
You do recall that when Republicans held the White House and the Senate and the house that there was a bipartisan bill that Trump refused to sign right? You remember how he changed his mind on what he would sign......so much so that the republicans in Congress didn't know what to put forward because they didn't know what he would sign?
Immigration policy is his responsibility. To try to get a bill that has everything he wants in the middle of a divided congress makes zero sense. He will not compromise nor will he negotiate. It's got to be the wall and everything he wants or Nothing at All. So it goes from being just his responsibility to being his fault.
He threatens to close the border then seems shocked that the number of illegal crossings explodes. He stops funding to the Central American countries where the immigrants come from and cuts talks with them about the crisis. Seems like a good idea to try to improve the conditions in their home countries so the people won't want to leave. But no, when you have a wall mentality you don't consider such alternatives.
Does Congress get credit for the economy? After all, they passed the tax cut. No, Trump is the hero. But when it comes to Trump's number one issue, Congress gets the blame for a failed policy they didn't create.
Congress passes legislation, not the President. He persuaded McConnell and Ryan to get the tax cut through.
He can’t seem to get McConnell to act and Pelosi will never give anything that looks like a win to Trump unless she has no choice. You do realize the Ds control the House, right? Trump passed the tax with almost no D support. Nice straw man you constructed in your head again.
So where’s the wall? I thought it was a national emergency. Instead we’ve had radio silence for months. But at least we all have big boy tanks on Thursday.
someone has become a great politician.
the next campaign can be the same:
build a wall, that mexico pays for
lock her up
drain the swamp
fix healthcare
lower taxes/tariffs
label china a currency manipulator
get rid of nafta(2)
eliminate national debt in
propose amendment for congress term limits
never take vacation
etc etc
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Let me make sure I understand you.....The WH changes to a republican.......who also has a republican congress........and Trump HAD TO CONVINCE the speaker and the leader to pass tax cuts. ROTFL. Trump must have learned some serious mind control shit at Wharton. What great powers of persuasion.
I......I know you're a bright guy, so I must assume you think I'm not or you just can't make yourself say anything negative about Trump.
Congress can pass all the freakin legislation it wants. It means nothing without the president's signature. You know that.
The president lays out his legislative agenda, like in the State of the Union. He usually works with a member or members of Congress to sponsor a bill that includes what he wants. The sponsor(s) lobby other members of Congress for passage of the bill and the president works with his staff to also lobby Congress. That's how it usually works, the president being the driving force. Not these days. If it's going well he takes credit. If not, blame somebody else.
He couldn't get immigration reform when he HAD both houses of Congress. He refused to sign a bipartisan bill he said he WOULD sign. The pubs in the senate just gave up trying because he was changing his mind all the time.
The system works when our elected officials work together to pass legislation, understanding they have to work together and actually compromise and negotiate. Trump has zero interest. Since you didn't object earlier, I'll assume you agree that he wants it his way or there will be no immigration deal. He's counting on immigration to be the centerpiece of the 2020 election. He's making it happen.
Right, now reread what you wrote, and try to realize why the definition does not apply.
The bill you're referring to, when the Rs controlled both chambers, did not end up going far enough. If you will recall, there a great deal of back and forth on what it would contain (or not). These things were considered:
1) Funding for wall
2) eVerify strengthening for employers
3) Elimination of Chain Migration
4) Ending the visa lottery
5) Limits on the number of legal immigrants in a calendar year
6) Increased resources for ICE and Customs and Border Control
7) Cracking down on visa overstays
8) Path to citizenship for Dreamers
9) Path to citizenship for illegal aliens
You make it sound like "bipartisan deal" had all of the elements of 1-7 especially. The final version did not, and in the end, was too weak for Trump to accept. Multiple variations were thrown around. You make it sound like Trump had the deal he wanted and couldn't take yes for an answer. This is not true.
The final version was kind of a hollow shell of a deal, and gave the Ds much of what they wanted and gave him too little of what he wanted. In the end, he rejected the deal and the establishment Rs never seriously tried to bring it back up again. The Ds dug in and asked for more concessions and wouldn't accept most of 1-7. Pelosi famously said "Not one penny for the wall" and any chance for a deal fell apart. There's even less chance right now because the Ds control the House.
The recenly issued Homeland Security Inspector General's Report on migrant holding conditions may be downloaded via
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-07/OIG-19-51-Jul19_.pdf?mod=article_inline
A related Wall Street Journal article is at
https://www.wsj.com/articles/homela...ditions-in-border-patrol-stations-11562104197
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-07/OIG-19-51-Jul19_.pdf?mod=article_inline
A related Wall Street Journal article is at
https://www.wsj.com/articles/homela...ditions-in-border-patrol-stations-11562104197
You have no idea why people seeking asylum from oppressive countries are admitted in to this country?
Pick up a history book, it's partially what our country was founded on.
P.S. This is all a manufactured crisis by Trump—either that or he's just flat out dumb. He started out by cutting off aid to El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras -- where most of these people are coming from. He said he cut the aid off because so many of their citizens were seeking asylum.
In what world is that a solution? Shockingly, when aid was cut off, MORE people started coming because the situations in their country is only getting WORSE.
And here we are....what a great deal maker he is.
what a liberal knee slapper. Get out of here with your fake virtue signaling. you don't know what it means. These are not people being persecuted on race/religion/political opinion.
OK, if you're such a saint, go out on the streets tonight, find a homeless person, and invite them to live at your house until their conditions improve.
Better yet, go to a homeless shelter for battered women and children and take some of them into your home. We'll be waiting to hear your report.
How pissed are you at the parents who are putting these children in the situation to begin with?
Not nearly as pissed as I am at you for being a heartless jackass and not caring that the majority of these folks are trying to escape situations that you and I can’t even begin to fathom.
I agree with you that parents are “using” their children but I can’t condone mistreating children. We need to change some laws now!
not every kid born anywhere is my responsibility. honestly. where does it end.
that's most of it. there's only a few reasons and they aren't here for any legal one.
Calling you out makes me a racist? That’s some effed up logic but thanks for confirming my statement.
