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Waddell

Before the season begun, I read most of the comments from Matt and the sport writers. And I seriously thought Waddell would be the first guy off the bench. I had also thought Heide and Colvin would fight their wy into the starting lineup by February. Jones and TKR were hyped, but both playing better than I thought. And two of my favorite players are Gillis, Furst and Morton, as they do the little things better than expected. I knew Smith and Loyer would improve, plus that kid from Canada seems to be able to do pretty well. I think if he comes back for a Covid year that will be a surprise, but I think we can squeeze him in, maybe at small forward where he can work on his dribbling skills,

So let's face it. This team goes 12 deep. I would love to see Berg playing more minutes, and being a twin tower at times. I want to give all the players more love, and Waddell definitely deserves it too.
 
Before the season begun, I read most of the comments from Matt and the sport writers. And I seriously thought Waddell would be the first guy off the bench. I had also thought Heide and Colvin would fight their wy into the starting lineup by February. Jones and TKR were hyped, but both playing better than I thought. And two of my favorite players are Gillis, Furst and Morton, as they do the little things better than expected. I knew Smith and Loyer would improve, plus that kid from Canada seems to be able to do pretty well. I think if he comes back for a Covid year that will be a surprise, but I think we can squeeze him in, maybe at small forward where he can work on his dribbling skills,

So let's face it. This team goes 12 deep. I would love to see Berg playing more minutes, and being a twin tower at times. I want to give all the players more love, and Waddell definitely deserves it too.
For sure it’d be great for everyone to play… but here’s a crack at it that I don’t think would work haha (taken real quick from ESPN). I think it’d be tough to get a flow for players if everyone isn’t firing on all cylinders. Also, I think my math was right for predicting the potential 12 man rotation (plz check math).

Edey - 30 (29.6 in 20 games)
Berg - 5 (4.9 in 9 games)
TKR - 15 (16.7 in 20 games)
Furst - 13 (11.8 in 20)
Gillis - 17 (19.2 in 20)

Jones - 22 (26.6 in 20)
Loyer - 23 (26 in 20)
Heide - 15 (12.3 in 20)
Waddell - 10 (5.1 in 9)
Colvin - 10 (9.3 in 18)

Smith - 30 (32 in 20)
Morton - 10 (13.1 in 19)
 
Waddell has Hummel like abilities. Just needs more playing time to showcase it.
I mean clearly he doesn't, at least not at this moment. You can't be serious with that post. There's two extremes here, the people who think Painter infallible and then the folks who seem to think Painter so incompetent that he has a Robbie Hummel just sitting on the bench and not using him.
 
Waddell has Hummel like abilities. Just needs more playing time to showcase it.
kind of reminds me of the kid we got from Guerin Catholic some years back that transferred to Lehigh then IUPUI and was hampered by injuries thru out his career
 
My preseason thinking was Edey, Heide, Colvin, Loyer, and Smith would be our February lineup. It was a small lineip around Edey, because Edey gets all the rebounds in close, but we had the quickness to get the long rebounds. It was tough deciding between Gillis and Heide and Loyer and Waddell, but I went with the better 3 point shooters. This was the offense used by Houston with Olajuwon.

My second team was Furst, Gillis, Waddell, Jones, and Morton. I thought TKR would be our Swen Nater, and Berg needed to develope more.

And as you can see, I was wrong. TKR has fit in well, and Jones has been better than advertised. This is why Matt gets the big bucks. Then again, if we don't win it all, I will be crying that Matt should have listened to me - lol.
 
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I mean clearly he doesn't, at least not at this moment. You can't be serious with that post. There's two extremes here, the people who think Painter infallible and then the folks who seem to think Painter so incompetent that he has a Robbie Hummel just sitting on the bench and not using him.
Purdue is so deep. Waddell and Berg are both very talented players.

Waddell had one hell of a senior year at Carmel HS resulting in a
State Championship win over Lawrence North with a 20 and 10 game.
Looked very Hummel-like. NBA scouts were asking about him at
Purdue before his ACL injury while scouting Ivey.

About the only thing Painter could do is be more unpredictable with his substitution patterns / usage from game to game. This would make
Purdue an even tougher scout for opposing teams while also building
more confidence in the bench, and starters having fresher legs for March.

Some games go with Heide, Furst, and Morton more. Other
games go with Colvin, Waddell, and Berg more. Not necessarily those
combinations, but you get what I'm saying. Gillis would still get his.
It's nitpicking, but there's always room for improvement, especially since
we all want that elusive Final Four and National Championship.
Go Boilers!
 
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I mean clearly he doesn't, at least not at this moment. You can't be serious with that post. There's two extremes here, the people who think Painter infallible and then the folks who seem to think Painter so incompetent that he has a Robbie Hummel just sitting on the bench and not using him.
Good stuff! Waddell has some Hummel to his game.
 
I'm hoping the Purdue players aren't dumb enough to read these boards but I'll just say it. If Waddell want's to ever play serious minutes of college basketball, he should probably transfer.

Serious questions from all the Waddell fans. If you could pick one guy to transfer (because at least one guy will need to transfer) who would it be? I'm pretty sure who I would pick.
 
His senior year at Carmel including his 20 and 10 in a win against
Lawrence North in the State Championship game was very
Hummel-like.
Ok that’s awesome. However, we all know high school stats don’t always translate to college. Also, it seems possibly the ACL tear has impacted his play and slowed down his progression towards PT. I wouldn’t mind seeing him in some of Morton’s minutes just to see how he does. But I’m guessing CMP ain’t gonna do that.
 
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Purdue is so deep. Waddell and Berg are both very talented players.

Waddell had one hell of a senior year at Carmel HS resulting in a
State Championship win over Lawrence North with a 20 and 10 game.
Looked very Hummel-like. NBA scouts were asking about him at
Purdue before his ACL injury while scouting Ivey.

About the only thing Painter could do is be more unpredictable with his substitution patterns / usage from game to game. This would make
Purdue an even tougher scout for opposing teams while also building
more confidence in the bench, and starters having fresher legs for March.

Some games go with Heide, Furst, and Morton more. Other
games go with Colvin, Waddell, and Berg more. Not necessarily those
combinations, but you get what I'm saying. Gillis would still get his.
It's nitpicking, but there's always room for improvement, especially since
we all want that elusive Final Four and National Championship.
Go Boilers!
Understand what you mean and in a perfect world, maybe 12 deep would work. I even laid out minutes where it may work. But it’s not a perfect world and I don’t even think high school teams go 12 deep? Players need to get into the flow and so if Lance is hot and going on a run, should we just pull him because someone else needs to get the mins? Or are you going to play fletch less to switch things up even though he is shooting 53% from 3? Then you risk him getting out of rhythm and not shooting well the next few games. Or what if Heide is playing some good basketball the last 4 games, but then we don’t play him much to switch it up and throw the other team off? I think then you’re out thinking yourself as a coach.

But let’s also remember, whether it’s right or wrong or if we like it or not, the team revolves around that big guy from Canada—on offense and defense. So, as a coach you evaluate who plays best around Zach from an offensive standpoint and defensive. Can they get him the ball, is spacing correct, can a player play off Zach (etc)? On defense you have to evaluate how a player is in the right position and not putting Zach in a situation if where he has to foul or maybe have to guard out on the perimeter more than he needs to etc.

I agree that Brian is good and was advocating for his playing time at the beginning of the year after seeing him at the scrimmage and euro trip. However it did look like his knee was bothering him as his running form was a bit off from the first few games compared to the summer.

But unfortunately, in sports at this level, everyone cant always play a lot. Hopefully. If his number is called, he will be ready and can produce and show us all what he’s got!
 
Purdue is so deep. Waddell and Berg are both very talented players.

Waddell had one hell of a senior year at Carmel HS resulting in a
State Championship win over Lawrence North with a 20 and 10 game.
Looked very Hummel-like. NBA scouts were asking about him at
Purdue before his ACL injury while scouting Ivey.

About the only thing Painter could do is be more unpredictable with his substitution patterns / usage from game to game. This would make
Purdue an even tougher scout for opposing teams while also building
more confidence in the bench, and starters having fresher legs for March.

Some games go with Heide, Furst, and Morton more. Other
games go with Colvin, Waddell, and Berg more. Not necessarily those
combinations, but you get what I'm saying. Gillis would still get his.
It's nitpicking, but there's always room for improvement, especially since
we all want that elusive Final Four and National Championship.
Go Boilers!
understanding Matt and you will see he will not do that. First Matt at least for the most part is not an emotional coach. People can discuss whether he should be or not because successful examples exist on both sides. Matt coaches as he wants his players to be...even keeled-not get too high or too low. He wants the players to play against the game, not the opposition. Forget the score and the emotions attached, but always strive for perfection no matter what you are doing on D or O. He wants his team to be like a machine...and machine like precision. He wants his players ready to sub to be mentally ready knowing who they are replacing and roughly what time watching the opposition and what he might experience going in. Now, there are exceptions due to early fouls or particulars that are needed.

All players do not have the same strengths and I think we can all agree with that. Therefore certain players with certain strengths may not be needed now, but could be with a different set of players whether inside a game today or next year. Strengths are not always a skill or physical strength, but sometimes a mental strength is needed to the demise of some.

These things are evolutionary over time and effectiveness in that Matt will shrink the rotation as the season goes on for some minutes. Now FWIW I wondered if Brian might be considering moving on in the recent past due to not seeing the floor when I thought he could. Then in Michigan he got more minutes and I thought it must not be the case. Brian was very happy to get a scholly at Purdue knowing full well he had to redshirt the first year. Like everyone in the forum, we don't know Brian's desires. Unlike some I can see him playing more down the road "IF" a couple of things happen. Also, like many the whole scholly things with numbers create a lot of questions. I think NIL potentially opens the door for two walk-on places to have 15 on the bench, but I do that out of ignorance in not knowing if any differences exist in what walk-ons may be able to do today. Years ago, they were deprive of some team activities...
 
I mean clearly he doesn't, at least not at this moment. You can't be serious with that post. There's two extremes here, the people who think Painter infallible and then the folks who seem to think Painter so incompetent that he has a Robbie Hummel just sitting on the bench and not using him.
Nothing new under the sun. There always has been and will always have in the future opinions that differ. Many times those opinions take place and someone tells the other he doesn't know anything about basketball and then things elevate as each believe not knowing something as a result of a comment has his or her feelings hurt because each take their understandings as correct. What would be better (because I think there is some, just not enough) is for each side to support a bit better the logic behind their opinion and why that logic exists. Even then what is logical to one may not be to the other, but with better understanding of pros and cons the dialog should improve or at least not result in personal attacks as much. Sometimes, you just don't respond if you can't be support your reasoning WELL or just believing that you DON'T have to have agreement with your position and let some thread go. It is quite alright to not agree with others, but boy if a LOT hold a different view, then perhaps a bit of reflection is needed as well?
 
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I'm hoping the Purdue players aren't dumb enough to read these boards but I'll just say it. If Waddell want's to ever play serious minutes of college basketball, he should probably transfer.

Serious questions from all the Waddell fans. If you could pick one guy to transfer (because at least one guy will need to transfer) who would it be? I'm pretty sure who I would pick.
I would want one of our incoming recruits to go the prep school route....
 
Good stuff! Waddell has some Hummel to his game.
He does. I also think some people now talk like Robbie was a superstar, and he wasn't.
He WAS very good, but he always was one of those guys that mostly flew under the radar and was appreciated for his defense and passing and all around game more than his scoring ability. True teammate, he was as happy with an assist as a made basket. THere were plenty of fans questioning if he was good enough. Scott Martin got more attention on his OWN HIGH SCHOOL TEAM! (Like Fletcher with Goode). Etwaun and JJ (and Martin early) were considered of equal or better talent and more the "stars" of that team. (your opinion may differ, but that's what I remember)
Robbie was appreciated like Mason and Ethan and many many other Boilers in that long line of over achievers, by some more than others.
 
I also think some people now talk like Robbie was a superstar, and he wasn't.
He WAS very good, but he always was one of those guys that mostly flew under the radar and was appreciated for his defense and passing and all around game more than his scoring ability.
3 time first team All Big Ten, including as a freshman (first Purdue true freshman ever with that accolade)
2nd team All American
2 time Honorable Mention All American

I'd say those awards dispute your take on him more than a little.
 
He does. I also think some people now talk like Robbie was a superstar, and he wasn't.
He WAS very good, but he always was one of those guys that mostly flew under the radar and was appreciated for his defense and passing and all around game more than his scoring ability. True teammate, he was as happy with an assist as a made basket. THere were plenty of fans questioning if he was good enough. Scott Martin got more attention on his OWN HIGH SCHOOL TEAM! (Like Fletcher with Goode). Etwaun and JJ (and Martin early) were considered of equal or better talent and more the "stars" of that team. (your opinion may differ, but that's what I remember)
Robbie was appreciated like Mason and Ethan and many many other Boilers in that long line of over achievers, by some more than others.
Robbie was an entirely different caliber of player than Mason and Ethan.

Robbie was an nba-caliber player. One of the best all-around players Purdue has ever seen.
 
understanding Matt and you will see he will not do that. First Matt at least for the most part is not an emotional coach. People can discuss whether he should be or not because successful examples exist on both sides. Matt coaches as he wants his players to be...even keeled-not get too high or too low. He wants the players to play against the game, not the opposition. Forget the score and the emotions attached, but always strive for perfection no matter what you are doing on D or O. He wants his team to be like a machine...and machine like precision. He wants his players ready to sub to be mentally ready knowing who they are replacing and roughly what time watching the opposition and what he might experience going in. Now, there are exceptions due to early fouls or particulars that are needed.

All players do not have the same strengths and I think we can all agree with that. Therefore certain players with certain strengths may not be needed now, but could be with a different set of players whether inside a game today or next year. Strengths are not always a skill or physical strength, but sometimes a mental strength is needed to the demise of some.

These things are evolutionary over time and effectiveness in that Matt will shrink the rotation as the season goes on for some minutes. Now FWIW I wondered if Brian might be considering moving on in the recent past due to not seeing the floor when I thought he could. Then in Michigan he got more minutes and I thought it must not be the case. Brian was very happy to get a scholly at Purdue knowing full well he had to redshirt the first year. Like everyone in the forum, we don't know Brian's desires. Unlike some I can see him playing more down the road "IF" a couple of things happen. Also, like many the whole scholly things with numbers create a lot of questions. I think NIL potentially opens the door for two walk-on places to have 15 on the bench, but I do that out of ignorance in not knowing if any differences exist in what walk-ons may be able to do today. Years ago, they were deprive of some team activities...
“He wants his team to be like a machine..”

And this is actually both Painter’s greatest strength and weakness. These are human beings, not machines.
 
“He wants his team to be like a machine..”

And this is actually both Painter’s greatest strength and weakness. These are human beings, not machines.
Actually there are many coaches that want the precision...the consistency that a machine produces. The variation is reduced and therefore the predictability is enhanced and as the predictability is enhanced the coach has a better idea who can do what relative to strengths and weaknesses. I don't know whether you didn't understand that comment or you disagree and either is okay. No matter what I have explained why.

I would say in most endeavors a strength is a weakness in another way
 
Actually there are many coaches that want the precision...the consistency that a machine produces. The variation is reduced and therefore the predictability is enhanced and as the predictability is enhanced the coach has a better idea who can do what relative to strengths and weaknesses. I don't know whether you didn't understand that comment or you disagree and either is okay. No matter what I have explained why.

I would say in most endeavors a strength is a weakness in another way
Yes, very much agree with you. Being machine-like and precise has its benefits and downsides. It’s the nature of reality. I appreciate your points.
 
Yes, very much agree with you. Being machine-like and precise has its benefits and downsides. It’s the nature of reality. I appreciate your points.
So in industry variation reduction is the goal. Once reduced, then shift the mean where you want it...assuming of course that the shift doesn't increase the variation. Even when an ANOVA (Analysis of Variation) is used to see what variables might be in play...say tire wear (rubber hardness & composition, alignment, location of tire, pressure and so forth) , the assumption is that variation is equal and with that equality (that very possibly may be wrong) you basically look for a difference in means whereas in a single group compared to another group the variation is studied and if different as a result of an F-test, then the degrees of freedom are adjusted to compare means with the chosen confidence limit.

I know this isn't what you asked, but there are some similarities relative to variation and why any data on the mean should be viewed in light of the variation for a better understanding. ;)
 
So in industry variation reduction is the goal. Once reduced, then shift the mean where you want it...assuming of course that the shift doesn't increase the variation. Even when an ANOVA (Analysis of Variation) is used to see what variables might be in play...say tire wear (rubber hardness & composition, alignment, location of tire, pressure and so forth) , the assumption is that variation is equal and with that equality (that very possibly may be wrong) you basically look for a difference in means whereas in a single group compared to another group the variation is studied and if different as a result of an F-test, then the degrees of freedom are adjusted to compare means with the chosen confidence limit.

I know this isn't what you asked, but there are some similarities relative to variation and why any data on the mean should be viewed in light of the variation for a better understanding. ;)
Yes haha definitely some similarities. I think my overall, larger point is that treating humans ONLY like machines is to fail to realize that humans are not machines.

Not saying there isn’t immense value in a systematic approach, but seeing things exclusively through a systematic, machine-like lens/approach can easily turn into an imbalanced result.

I believe this is something Painter has struggled with at times. He becomes so analytical and structured that he doesn’t leave enough room for fluidity and spontaneity, which is also important.
 
Yes haha definitely some similarities. I think my overall, larger point is that treating humans ONLY like machines is to fail to realize that humans are not machines.

Not saying there isn’t immense value in a systematic approach, but seeing things exclusively through a systematic, machine-like lens/approach can easily turn into an imbalanced result.

I believe this is something Painter has struggled with at times. He becomes so analytical and structured that he doesn’t leave enough room for fluidity and spontaneity, which is also important.
As a person that has been around statistics for a few decades relative to change, experiments and such I'm NOT as big of fan inside the game of basketball. I think it is a great starting place, but I see general average numbers not necessarily accurate for a given game. I believe that the general population that the data is gathered (all games thrown together) is made of of different populations that could be far enough apart that the predictive effect doesn't take place inside a given game. That data used for all populations is NOT just a function of the players, but of the coaches desires that want the players to do certain things
 
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He does. I also think some people now talk like Robbie was a superstar, and he wasn't.
He WAS very good, but he always was one of those guys that mostly flew under the radar and was appreciated for his defense and passing and all around game more than his scoring ability. True teammate, he was as happy with an assist as a made basket. THere were plenty of fans questioning if he was good enough. Scott Martin got more attention on his OWN HIGH SCHOOL TEAM! (Like Fletcher with Goode). Etwaun and JJ (and Martin early) were considered of equal or better talent and more the "stars" of that team. (your opinion may differ, but that's what I remember)
Robbie was appreciated like Mason and Ethan and many many other Boilers in that long line of over achievers, by some more than others.
Until his injuries he absolutely was a star player. And even after he spent some time in the NBA. He started every game from the beginning.

Waddell, right now, has been nothing but near end of bench. Now maybe a year from now he's really good I don't know but through this point there's zero comparison between the two.
 
“He wants his team to be like a machine..”

And this is actually both Painter’s greatest strength and weakness. These are human beings, not machines.
The “team” can be more like a machine even when its parts are made up of humans. This is the time of year that the main players are receiving the majority of the minutes in order to get the reps in to be more consistent. Consistency is what is machine like and what Painter is searching for.
 
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