Trade War with China
- Thread starter Bruce1
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Depends on what you believe "winning" looks like. To date, what we have on the US side is American workers, particularly in agriculture and manufacturing, being hit hardest. Economic growth has slowed, and the average American consumer has been hit with increased financial burden due to companies passing through the cost impacts.
None of that screams "winning" to me. Wake me up when a trade deal is complete, and we can point to the tangible benefits. Until then, this is all still tit-for-tat where no-one is winning. Trump and Xi are playing a game of chicken, where only one of them has an election coming up next year.
None of that screams "winning" to me. Wake me up when a trade deal is complete, and we can point to the tangible benefits. Until then, this is all still tit-for-tat where no-one is winning. Trump and Xi are playing a game of chicken, where only one of them has an election coming up next year.
In an continuing update regarding the relative pain each country might be suffering in a Trade War, how comforting is it to Americans that it's all still a lose/lose battle , pending resolution ??
Hmmmm... guess if accurate, the PBS analysis which estimates "the new trade policy regime implemented in 2018 through June 2019 is likely to result in an average cost per U.S. household between $500 and $1,700 a year" would yield an answer of "that's not my idea of winning" for most people.
I don't believe that the PBS link to their chart is active, but the chart is available as a pdf here
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In the context of this thread and trade wars, I would perhaps author "To gain, to better one's own position or lot in life" as seemingly pretty apropos
Trump wants to balance the trade deficit with China and stop them from stealing our trade secrets. They are using our markets to pay for their military and economic buildup. Tariffs will cost consumers more for some items at least in the short term but in the long term will result higher paying jobs here.
Higher paying U.S. jobs will not be the result of any return of overseas manufacturing to our shores.
Ohio bean farmer and former Republican County Chairman explains why he is no fan of Trump or his trade policy via a CNN Interview
Im. not sure where you get your info. The data below is now dated but the return of jobs has been accelerating greatly.
https://www.industryweek.com/economy/reshoring-rise-what-it-means-trade-debate
As the labor shortage continues in the US there will be more competition for workers. Wages will continue to rise as a result.
lol. Trump STILL doesn't understand what a trade deficit represents. Do you?
Tell me, how are you going to balance the trade deficit with China without government intervention? Higher paying jobs here makes our products more competitive with China how? Do you think China is going to agree to a deal that takes away their ability to build their economy and their military?
I'm aware that manufacturing jobs have been up recently, although despite your assertions of acceleration there has been a recent downturn as set out in LA Times.
My thoughts really are far simpler than stats, etc. It appears to me that today's Americans, by and large, are unwilling to pay sufficiently high prices for most manufactured goods, to produce an ability to pay a reasonably high wage. Think Walmart, Target, et al buying propensities. I also think that is being significantly exacerbated by.the overbearing drives for corporate profits, de-unionization, part time employees to avoid benefits, stripping away of worker retirement funding and similar activities. Those conditions speak loudly to me that ultimately American manufacturing jobs with "reasonable" wages are a thing of the past. I truly hope that I am wrong, but I think the future for America will and must be more idea and tech based. The growing absence of a true "middle" class has been and will continue to be extraordinarily destructive of our society as we have known it for the last 75 years.
Apparently to you whatever Trump tells you "win" is, that is until he f's something up again and you come on here with a lamenting "they're all the same" thread.
Ugh, when trade is finally "balanced" and you're in retirement eating dog food to sustain yourself will you finally admit you and Trump were wrong about trade? Probably not, it will somehow be Carter's fault.
Tariffs are government intervention.
China is no longer a developing country economically. There is no need to allow the open access to our markets when they have 5 times the population that we have and ample natural resources, etc. making products here with higher wage labor will cost Americans more. Americans should see the advantages of spending th money on US made products and willingly pay more. Point in case. Last month I willing paid $200 for New Balance shoes made in Maine instead of $120 for shoes made in China.
China will not agree to voluntarily give up an advantage they have been allowed to take over the last 35 years. They need to be forced to the table.
Do we need to totally balance the trade deficit? That won’t happen. Should China continue to receive favored nation status while manipulating currently, stealing trade secrets, etc? I think not.
Lol. Exactly. The only way to balance the trade deficit is through government intervention.... tariffs......which if you recall, were only going to be TEMPORARY. If Trump wants his deal, he'll have to stop the tariffs.......so no trade balance. If he wants balance, the tariffs have to stay......or other mechanisms that artificially inflate the prices.
Trade deficits aren't inherently bad.......neither you nor the president seem to understand that. Hell, he thinks we are just sending billions to China and getting nothing in return.....or so he says.
Intellectual property and the like are a totally different issue. Combining the two arguments is disingenuous.
There is no question that companies have raced off shore for decades. The usual explanation is that greedy executives chasing stock prices, bonuses, etc are the villains and there is certainly a lot of truth to that view. That said, what rarely gets pointed out is the fact that for decades foreign companies have stolen intellectual property, copied and built products less expensively and been allowed to dump them in our markets. Our companies were forced to chase lower labor costs off shore in a futile attempt to compete with Government run Government subsidized foreign companies. As much as Trump disgusts me he is the first President to call China out and try to do something about it.
I guess we are #winning like charlie sheen is these days.
3 years later, and we still hear the same talking points.... which lack context of the positives we have and seem to ignore future ramifications.
if trump/supporters think some trade aspects are unfair..... other countries may view 100-times the unfairness in the u.s. dollar being the major reserve currency for years, petrodollar, global military bases, etc.
this is a "be careful what you wish for" scenario.
3 years later, and we still hear the same talking points.... which lack context of the positives we have and seem to ignore future ramifications.
if trump/supporters think some trade aspects are unfair..... other countries may view 100-times the unfairness in the u.s. dollar being the major reserve currency for years, petrodollar, global military bases, etc.
this is a "be careful what you wish for" scenario.
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Anyone who thought this would be short term wasn’t thinking clearly. This is a 30+ year problem. China IS hurting big time for several reason including Tariffs.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/14/economy/china-economy-slowdown-tariffs/index.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/charle...rade-war-hurting-chinas-economy/#7eef8dd54035
We dont have give up our objectives. Stay the course, which most Americans have a hard time doing.
Trade deficits aren’t necessarily bad, true. Trade deficits the magnitude we have had with China for decades are bad, really bad.
Record low unemployment.
Stock market testing all time highs.
Global trade agreements being reworked to benefit American workers.
Corporate earnings reports up.
If that's not winning, I'd hate to see what losing looks like.
This thread is specific to the trade war, not Trump's America writ large. Stay on target. The only thing you mentioned on that subject was a trade agreement being reworked, meaning it is incomplete...re-read my post.
I find it hilarious that some of you think Trump doesn't know anything about trade. You seem to forget that before he was POTUS, he was a globally successful businessman and developer. He's one of the best negotiators to ever live. Yet somehow, you believe a life long politician like Biden or Bernie or Warren, who's never been responsible for a P&L statement, would somehow make better financial decisions.
Trump has property. He's in real estate. He doesn't manufacture anything. Just because he has property around the world doesn't mean he understands trade......which he clearly doesn't.
Your dismissiveness would be expected. I assume that you didn't read it, or you would be aware that it was in concert with an EconoFact study. EconoFact monographs are written by leading academic economists from across the country who belong to the EconoFact Network. It is published by the Edward R. Murrow Center for a Digital World at The Fletcher School at Tufts University. But, of course, you don't care or you wouldn't have made your comment because you would have had the interest and discipline to read and think before being so self-sure and condescending.
My 18 year old grandson makes far more rational choices and my 19 year old granddaughter is surely better read. You are entitled to your opinion but I have seen little that is demonstrative of any negotiating skill. Say "I am the greatest negotiator in the worid" certainly doesn't make one so, and actually screams many things but negotiating skill isn't one.
Posts like that make you seem so toady that we should worry about warts from reading it.
which was trump, and most supporters
which won't happen when either a democrat, or free market conservative eventually takes office next
But it's not really about trade, it's about negotiating trade agreements. And no one is better at negotiating than Trump.
Lol. He's done real well negotiating with Congress. He's kicking ass in his negotiation with North Korea. And that China thing seems to be going well.
If you knew a damn thing about him you would know he doesn't negotiate. He demands and then if he doesn't get what he wants, he takes them to court.....in the case of his business practices. In his presidency, he either slaps tariffs on them or he kisses their ass. Give me a break.
No one, perhaps, exceeds the ability of D. Trump in negotiating contractual agreements pertaining to the construction and management of high-rise office buildings and luxury golf resort properties.
I rather doubt you'd have any luck arguing that he's some master negotiator of much having to do with the presidency of the United States.
You wanna do a balance sheet treatment of Trump's 2 1/2+ yrs. as Presidential negotiator ?
Have at it.
Ready when you are.
Would you be kind enough to provide a list of his negotiating successes that lead you to your conclusion?
Lol. What's this, like the fifth time this has happened?
Your problem is, you actually listen to what the President says and believe it.
There is no agreement. Actually there may be an agreement to have an agreement later.
There will be a deal before the election. Trump can't survive without it. And it will be the greatest trade deal in the history of the world.
2016:
unemployment/government data is fake
low rates, QE is bad
market bubble/fake economy
2019:
unemployment/government data is the greatest
low rates, more QE is needed
economy is the greatest ever
Sir: Is it going to be necessary, to personally post to you, the notification of the DOW INDUSTRIAL INDEX's DECLINE on such days that it occurs between now and the election ???
Then why do you feel that you're making some political point on the days that it rises ??
Oh , and thank the hundreds of thousands of employees of those 30 Dow companies who ACTUALLY CAN TAKE EVERY BIT OF THE CREDIT FOR THEIR COMPANIES' SUCCESS !!!
I find it hilarious that you would refer to someone who declared bankruptcy owning casinos as a "globally successful businessman and developer." It's hard to lose money when people willingly give you money knowing the odds are stacked against them, but Trump found a way. WINNING!!!
When Daddy buys a kids way into Wharton, and ponies up for every failure that kid gets into, I doubt the son knows how to read a P&L.
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