Sad
- Thread starter Bruce1
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Indeed!
It can be both frustrating and fun to play the what-if game. What if Skyler Diggens had gone to Purdue instead of ND? I saw her as one of the primary reasons ND has done so well as a team, and her time at ND provide substantial momentum for later years. Could this situation be one of the results of the Curry/Merriwether debacle?
I think it adds to the difference between the programs, but ND still has a good coach, and they surrounded Diggens with good players. However, the players at Purdue during this time were no stiffs either. Could Sam and Drey have benifited from Diggins at guard? Maybe?
Well put. I really dislike getting clobbered on our home floor by what I perceive as miscellaneous random out of conference teams. I can understand getting beat by the likes of ND, Stanford, or UConn, but I expect better against South Carolina and Oklahoma State. I'd like to think we are firmly in that second tier, but the truth is we are not.
You are right; we are not in that second tier. But would we have been able to handle OkSt if our senior leader and leading scorer had been available?
At any rate, there is some sense that these upcoming recruiting classes of Coach V are an upgrade so we will see what happens in reality. With Maryland and Rutgers coming in that is two very, very good programs that are going to immediately insert themselves as Top 5 candidates and, on paper, Maryland looks like it could move right to the top.
Going to be interesting to see how we land.
At any rate, there is some sense that these upcoming recruiting classes of Coach V are an upgrade so we will see what happens in reality. With Maryland and Rutgers coming in that is two very, very good programs that are going to immediately insert themselves as Top 5 candidates and, on paper, Maryland looks like it could move right to the top.
Going to be interesting to see how we land.
I would never give back the national championship/runner up years that we had...now seems way back, but once you made it to Utopia, anything short of that never quite satisfies the same.Originally posted by mathboy:
Well put. I really dislike getting clobbered on our home floor by what I perceive as miscellaneous random out of conference teams. I can understand getting beat by the likes of ND, Stanford, or UConn, but I expect better against South Carolina and Oklahoma State. I'd like to think we are firmly in that second tier, but the truth is we are not.
I have to say that I could get excited about a top 8 finish now as that glow from those great days is just memory now but It's hard to get too caught up about what-if's and maybes. I keep hoping each year that the next wave of recruits is the one that brings us back with the right chemistry. Too bad the difference in "the best" and "good" teams is so wide today. It's the way it is in this sport now and hopefully it doesn't end up ruining it completely. Problem is that the marginal or passer-by women's basketball fan stays away now because of this difference. I think they have actually taken a step back instead of forward in watching. I guess they said that about UCLA in the 60's with the men too. I'll always be a fan but if I didn't have an association because of my degrees from Purdue, I wouldn't be as into it as much. Could be the same for others I suppose.
You make a good point about our missing warrior. Ok State beat us with faster guards. KK would have nuetralized much of that advantage in speed. There aren't too many kids playing ball right now that can match or beat her speed. I know that she hd a tendancy to be a little out of control at times, but IIRC she really brought that aspect of her play under some control for critical games.
Not sure we would have won the game with KK on the floor, but it would have made it more interesting. As far as I know, we won't have that kind of speed until year after next when Tiara Murphy arrives.
IMHO these posts represents the mind set that permeates Purdue Sports. We dont expect to be elite. As long as we are not too bad that is good enough. Make the tourney, Win the Big once in a while and that is good enough for Purdue. Our Ladies Basketball team was top 5 and the expectation was to win National Championships. When Versyp came in she brought with her the "Purdue Mentality". She failed to hold onto a number one recruiting class that year and went down hill from there. BFD. Until Purdue decides to set championship goals we will always be middle of the pack. Sad.
I agree with some of what you say but holding on to that first class was out of her control. There was vengence to make Purdue pay for what happened. The recruits and AAU coaches(dad) had a plan to get back at the school after the Assistant Coach (daughter) was fired. They were quite successful by playing and baiting us to the very end. It also didn't help that Curry's bolted to save their souls. I can question some of the current coach's recruitments but not that first one.
I agree that Oklahoma State had quicker guards. In addition to Bias they had two other lightning quick guards. However, never has one player been anymore dominant than number 22 was, especially at crucial points in the game. When a 6' guard , who you had assigned your top defender to control, scores 20. Points with 20 rebounds it is unlikely to be your day! And it wasn't?
Well said about KK Destewart.
Also to the one above who blamed Coach V for losing that first recruiting class. That is a clueless comment in my opinion.Not only could no coach have held on to those players in those circumstances but that opened the door to ND passing us as we got behind and they jumped way ahead in recruiting and there is such disparity in WBB that clearly few can catch up. When the only drama in WBB is when two teams play way above everyone else and it would be an upset if one undefeated team beats the other the whole sport is hurting. The Curry mess crunched us and we are trying to recover, but, like the vast majority of others, there is not enough elite talent to overcome the recruiting acumen of a few teams. Maryland is one of them and watch out for them in the BT next year.
Also to the one above who blamed Coach V for losing that first recruiting class. That is a clueless comment in my opinion.Not only could no coach have held on to those players in those circumstances but that opened the door to ND passing us as we got behind and they jumped way ahead in recruiting and there is such disparity in WBB that clearly few can catch up. When the only drama in WBB is when two teams play way above everyone else and it would be an upset if one undefeated team beats the other the whole sport is hurting. The Curry mess crunched us and we are trying to recover, but, like the vast majority of others, there is not enough elite talent to overcome the recruiting acumen of a few teams. Maryland is one of them and watch out for them in the BT next year.
agree with both of theseOriginally posted by mathboy:
Well put. I really dislike getting clobbered on our home floor by what I perceive as miscellaneous random out of conference teams. I can understand getting beat by the likes of ND, Stanford, or UConn, but I expect better against South Carolina and Oklahoma State. I'd like to think we are firmly in that second tier, but the truth is we are not.
Gemstate,
I think you are right on target regarding that lost class. I strongly suspect that is the point we lost the momentun generated by the previous two FF's. Now combine that with a period of low talent in Indiana, a low budget for recruiting and you have some less than stirling recruits. There was no chance on Skyler Diggens either, for many of the same issues around the "lost class".
I don't think I would assign any deep vendictiveness to the family. However, if that had happened to my kid, I would harbor some resentment toward the institution, if not for direct malice, at least for lack of oversight. It is possible that Diggens also was influenced by the situation.
Once you lose that momentum, and have a black mark against the program, restarting the program becomes more difficult. You can point to programs that arose from nowhere, but every one of those did not have a black mark or scandal associated with them that made it hard to recruit. Most of those nowhere programs were built on local talent to begin with, and then progressed to be national programs.
Now I wil give you this, Versyp does not seem to be one of those overly charming people that instantly puts a person at ease. She seems very business like, and down to earth, but not a super salesman. Once kids get to know her, she seems universally loved by the team. My hope is that the salesmanship can start with her assistants, and move to her as the recruit gets to know her better. So far, we are seeing better and better recruiting classes. We are starting to regain that national swagger. Now we need to get out of our own gym in the NCAA's.
I think you are right on target regarding that lost class. I strongly suspect that is the point we lost the momentun generated by the previous two FF's. Now combine that with a period of low talent in Indiana, a low budget for recruiting and you have some less than stirling recruits. There was no chance on Skyler Diggens either, for many of the same issues around the "lost class".
I don't think I would assign any deep vendictiveness to the family. However, if that had happened to my kid, I would harbor some resentment toward the institution, if not for direct malice, at least for lack of oversight. It is possible that Diggens also was influenced by the situation.
Once you lose that momentum, and have a black mark against the program, restarting the program becomes more difficult. You can point to programs that arose from nowhere, but every one of those did not have a black mark or scandal associated with them that made it hard to recruit. Most of those nowhere programs were built on local talent to begin with, and then progressed to be national programs.
Now I wil give you this, Versyp does not seem to be one of those overly charming people that instantly puts a person at ease. She seems very business like, and down to earth, but not a super salesman. Once kids get to know her, she seems universally loved by the team. My hope is that the salesmanship can start with her assistants, and move to her as the recruit gets to know her better. So far, we are seeing better and better recruiting classes. We are starting to regain that national swagger. Now we need to get out of our own gym in the NCAA's.
I disagree that Diggins was "no chance..for many of the same issues around the lost class." She was no chance because she is from South Bend. She grew up watching Notre Dame and cheering for Notre Dame. She was Muffett's to lose from the get-go, and our "issues around the lost class" had absolutely nothing to do with it. We weren't the only team who wanted her---UConn wanted, Stanford wanted, Louisville, Kentucky, Oklahoma,
Cal, Maryland, Baylor, DePaul, the rest of the B1G, hell, EVERYBODY wanted her. So it's not like "Versyp lost her." She was never ours to lose. She was Notre Dame's from the beginning, and it would have taken something incredibly horrible to happen up there for them to lose her.
This post was edited on 4/2 12:28 PM by boilerluv
This post was edited on 4/2 12:29 PM by boilerluv
Cal, Maryland, Baylor, DePaul, the rest of the B1G, hell, EVERYBODY wanted her. So it's not like "Versyp lost her." She was never ours to lose. She was Notre Dame's from the beginning, and it would have taken something incredibly horrible to happen up there for them to lose her.
This post was edited on 4/2 12:28 PM by boilerluv
This post was edited on 4/2 12:29 PM by boilerluv
There was an article posted that Notre Dame was scared to death that they were in trouble when she was accepted to Stanford. Candance Wiggins and her were good friends and Diggins was getting a lot of pressure to go there. Never happened but that would have been interesting. I think that may have been her only other true look. Stanford will do that to you.
The main reason I made this post was not to discuss the loss of Versyp's first class. The bottom line is that our program has gon steadily down hill the last 9 years. What used to be an Elite program can't even win two games in a row at HOME. I know we lost KK but we played extremely well prio to the loss to OK St. If we had high expectations Versyp would be on the hot seat.
