then you dont know what the definition of public lynching is
programmed democrats and racists make up language so i get the place youre coming from
If Chauvin is acquitted.....
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programmed democrats and racists make up language so i get the place youre coming from
I never said it was a hate crime.
Why are you inventing positions just to get mad at lol
Maybe I missed this during the trial but the autopsy found no injuries to the neck, chest, etc. that would typically be found with inflicted asphyxiation, so how did the prosecution counter that? How does one prove inflicted asphyxiation without physical evidence, especially when the pressure that is thought to have caused it comes from the back of the neck? Wouldn’t the pressure had to have been so great that it would have left some kind of evidence of trauma? And his blood had 98% oxygen saturation, which also contradicts that premise (although that was murky because he was given oxygen by medics). Baker, who conducted the autopsy said that if he didn’t know about the interaction with LEA, he would have treated it as a drug overdose.
And you just summarized the problem with today’s legal system in your last sentence; we no longer look at the burden of proof as the standard but instead at which side is more believable/credible and then declare that side the “winner”. The prosecution could have put on a much better case but that doesn’t/shouldn’t equate to a guilty charge. IMO, There were way to many variables in this case for someone to come to a conclusive finding one way or the other, which is why I don’t think it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Our justice system has become too much about winning and losing and gotten away from the burden of proof standards. But either way, it’s a moot point for me to argue regarding this case as the jury has spoken and thought otherwise.
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As I understand it, the term the examiners used was neck compression and asphyxiation caused by cutting off blood flow to the brain. You can cut off blood flow pretty easily and without injury.
I guess it was just a coincidence that Floyd was alive ten minutes earlier but Chauvin's knee was not the causation of Floyd's death. One thing that I haven't read about recently but I'm sure others are aware of it: Floyd had just gotten over Covid-19, which seems to have a lot of long term respiratory consequences associated with it.
As I mentioned above, it doesn't seem like the asphyxiation was assumed to have been caused by breathing trouble, but rather loss of circulation to the brain which combined with the other contributing factors was enough to kill him. That was essentially direct verbiage from the examiners. In fact, when directly asked about the effect of the Fentanyl, the chief medical examiner essentially said, he ruled out Fentanyl as a substantial cause of death because Fentanyl did not cause the police officer to put his knee on Floyd's neck. (I thought that was kind of darkly funny, personally).
How so? There was a reason the judge initially tossed this and an appeals court insisted on it (hint, activism). How is this a depraved heart murder? Isn't that reserved for firing into a crowd or throwing a brick off an overpass?
Murder 3 doesn't even apply in this case. That is why it was tossed.
I wonder why he said he couldn’t breath before ever getting put on the ground then? I’m sure it had nothing to do with the speedball, heart disease, or enlarged heart. He was also reportedly laying on a car at one point and foaming at the mouth.
And I’m sure struggling with the cops for almost 9 minutes, or whatever it was, did have something to do with his death, as that would put an enormous amount of stress on anyone’s heart. Have you ever wrestled with someone for 9 minutes? You ever wonder why wrestling periods are only 3 minutes long? It’s extremely taxing on the body. Try speedballing and then go wrestle in your yard with your neighbor and then let us know how that works out for you.
It wasn’t tossed - it was reinstated. He was convicted of it. As I said later in the thread, I don’t think they really proved murder 3, but the video was why if they did IMO. That was the case they tried to make. That said, I think of the charges it was the least applicable and the one least proven.
^5
ETA: I mean tossed by trail judge and reinstated by appeals via Moor. I did say initially.
Who the **** said race was a motive? That's not what we mean when we talk about racism and policing
I would guess if George Floyd was white, at some point Chauvin would have acted more humanely, rather than total and complete disregard for the humanity of GF
Acknowledging race and the role of plays in certain circumstances doesn't make you racist.
Umm.....BNI clearly implied it! That is why myself & several have called him out on it.
Some of you guys are just idiots. Have you ever seen anyone drown without flailing? Where in the history of humanity has a conscious human ever died without a fight. What do you expect someone who's is being pinned down and unable to breathe do? That's the stupidity of police using any kind of tenseness as resisting. No human, while conscious, won't struggle some while being asphixiated.
I saw them cuff Chauvin after the verdicts were read. He put his hands behind him and they cuffed. No surprises, no arm twisting. Then i remembered the times, a police officer grabbed my hand unexpectedly to cuff me out of the blue without even explaining why i was being detained. And then use my tenseness from being suddenly accosted as resisting.
I digress. There's nothing defensible about Derek Chauvins actions. Some things are really black and white.
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If George Floyd was white you would have never heard about the case and Chauvin never charged.
So he was just flailing while in the back of the squad car and before being put on the ground? Makes total sense.
No, he was resisting arrest, which exerts energy, and a lot of it, which puts strain on the heart.
Wrong. If he was white, i decibel doesn't go down that way. I double dare you to find me a an officer involved homicide that had a white person that's that egregiously bad.
The worst case involving a white person that I'm aware of is the Daniel shavers.
"Strain on the heart"
Please explain that to me how that causes death.
Edit: please before you start answering. Please know that i do have an MD from Yale. And i did my residency at Harvard
When you’re speed balling and have heart disease? Are you being serious right now?
And don’t you claim to be a doctor of some sort?
That's why I asked. Since you want to come to my area of expertise, you might as well get very precise. No fuzziness here. Exactly, what's the mechanism with which "strain on the heart" causes death.
I'm tired of people passing off ignorant innuendo as medical facts
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Cardiac arrest. Ever heard of it, doc?
Don’t be a condescending prick, it’s a bad look.
So people don’t die of cardiac arrest by over exerting their self? You ever seen someone collapse on a bball court and die? People don’t die of cardiac arrest from ingesting fentanyl and methamphetamine, also known as speedballing?
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OK, so let me get this straight. You're making a direct comparison between law enforcement and the KKK? I'm not suggesting Chauvin wasn't racist (I really don't know). But to believe he was so hell bent to kill Floyd because of his race that he was willing to be convicted of murder for it? Your argument is pretty weak...
Umm cardiac arrest?? Everyone dies of cardiac arrest eventually. That's the final step of every death regardless of cause. The heart stops working. You're still saying nothing, just throwing around terms you know nothing about.
So let me go back and ask you, how does "strain on the heart" get to "cardiac arrest". And where did you get your medical degree from? Fox News or is it breitbart?
By the way. In my medical opinion, although i don't have as much as medical details here as is availble on George Floyd, I'm willing to very strongly suggest that Tony Tampa died exactly the same way George Floyd died, ie his breathing was compromised with prone positioning and weight on his back. Being younger and likely in better health, he lasted longer.
That positioning is very very dangerous especially when the person is restrained in such a manner that they can't use any other body parts to prop up their chest.
There another medical fallacy that far too many cops have been taught for too long that "if your talking, you can breathe." That's absolutely not true!!! You only need to breath out to talk. Yon need space for you chest wall to expand in other to breathe in. Just turn someone over on their side! no restraint/resisting is worth leaving anyone prone.
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So over exerting yourself when you have heart disease can’t cause cardiac arrest? Not to mention the combination of fentanyl (lethal levels) and methamphetamine in his body as well.
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In America, black people are undervalued and marginalized. To a lot police officers, black people are not seen as equals and perhaps are de-humanized. In Chauvin’s mind, Floyd’s life did not matter at that time. Just because Chauvin is not wearing a white robe and hood doesn’t mean that he is not a racist.
But you just suggested it was a "public lynching". That would be premeditated. Was it or was it not a premeditated murder?
Where is any evidence to back these claims up? You can’t just say shit like that without some kind of evidence to support it. That’s actually really irresponsible
any and everything will cause cardiac arrest. so yeah, that's a truism. You are trying to use folksy wisdom to explain something you are completely clueless about, which is why I decided to call you out.
let me school you a bit. All death pathways eventually lead to cardiopulmonary arrest. i.e. eventually the heart is unable to pump blood, regardless of whatever started the process.
There's no evidence that he died from aof a primary cardiac cause. i.e. he didn't die from a problem that primarily started in heart. There just wasn't evidence for that. He didn't have a "heart attack." He didn't develop some arrythimia that was not secondary to other things.
How might strain on the heart lead to arrest. to over simplify, it eventually becomes a demand and supply problem. The heart needs to do more work for whatever reason, the blood supply to the heart muscles is inadequate to meet the demand. Geore Floyd did have 90% occluded artery with calcifications strongly suggesting that its been building up over a long time, i.e. enough time for the body to have built sufficient side-roads to get blood to his heart muscles. Is he as healthy as a 20 year old athlete? no. His stimulant use, and heightened sympathetic state can indeed, and probably did increase demand on his heart, but there is no evidence that supply couldn't have been met if his breathing wasn't compromised. But his breathing was compromised by the prone positioning with weight on his back and neck, he wasn't able to get enough oxygenized blood to keep his heart going. Functionally, it is no different from if he was bleeding out. In both cases, there ends not being a enough oxygenized blood to keep the heart muscles going, hence the arrest i.e. it stops working.
the fentanyl is just a distraction. That's not opiate overdose period. Nobody in heightened sympathetic state is dying from opiate overdose. George Floyd, is as unhealthy as a typical 60 something year old, who died becuase his breathing was compromised from the positioning the officers had him in. There's a reason there sound medical expert that will argue against that.
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Does fentanyl not slow blood flow and also make breathing more difficult, especially when ingesting fatal doses? What happens when you combine that with intensive physical exertion? Is what you described not what a fentanyl overdose looks like?
You feel a little better now? Now that you got to use some fancy medical terms and talk down at me, while essentially saying that yes, those other possible contributing factors (drugs and heart disease and over exertion) could have put more strain (or increased demand as you put it) on his heart, which was my original point.
And so if his labored/restricted breathing was a result of Chauvin’s knee being on his neck/shoulders, then why was he saying he couldn’t breath before ever being put in the prone position or having a knee on him?
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I just truly don’t understand why someone who claims to have watched the trial but has no medical expertise whatsoever is openly choosing to argue with multiple highly qualified medical examiners’ testimony as to cause of death. That the defense had to get a retired examiner from another part of the country and was only able to find that one should speak volumes as to the veracity of the testimony and findings.
Just stop!
Just stop!
Good one!
I was refuting the idea that the case was proven beyond a reasonable doubt, which in my opinion it wasn’t. If you have these other factors that could have contributed to his death, that raises doubt, which then doesn’t meet the standard. I watched a lot of the trial and did so with an open mind and came away with a lot of questions. I could give two shits about Chauvin and the verdict, it’s the way in which this trial was handled, the mob mentality, and elected officials tampering with the jury that bothers me. Some of you dipshits are to naive and biased to even open your eyes and understand the significance of what just happened.
And you have no idea what my educational background or “expertise” is.
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I have to school you again. just stop repeating stupid crap based on internet doctoring or whatever tropes. What does "slowing down blood flow" mean.
opiates are sedatives, they cause death because the person becomes too drowsy to consciously take adequate breaths. It's not possible for someone that is agitated to become too drowsy to take a deep breath. opiates don't cause death by some magical pathways. It's almost like the person dies from "forgetting to breathe"
He likely was have been having a panic attack. Maybe he is claustrophobic. He might have been lying to delay his arrest. who knows. Either way, people don't die from panic attacks. An opiate overdosing person is always not awake enough to tell you the can't breathe. If they can state awake, they won't be od'ing.
If someone is saying they can't breathe, that's exactly the reason why as a police officer, you shouldn't put them in positions that further compromises their breathing.
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So, to go along with your line of logic, if one doesn’t believe race plays an issue in these circumstances, does that make you a racist?
nobody has to prove anything beyond all doubts. although the lay public probably focusses more on the knee to the neck, which looks worse. In my medical opinion, its the totality of restraining him in such a position, that he is unable to take adequate breath, and restrained in such a manner (legs held down, face head down, pressure on back) so that he couldn't ever reposition himself to prop up his chest to give him room to breathe. and every attempt to do would have been interpreted as "resisting" since police have the most stupid definition of resisting ever. No one, who is conscious, goes to their death williningly
it could. it depends. but in your case, absolutely yes! having heard your views on race as espoused elsewhere
