Elizabeth Warren

[BoilerBiker]

I don't think that the NAFTA changes are overwhelming improvement, better yes but it really was little more than NAFTA II without the name which really was the whole point of it.

Well, Trump made improvements with NAFTA. BC, Bush, and Obama did not. As for China, BC, Bush, and Obama just let the status quo go-that is not the answer. Steal US tech, patents, military tech and just let it go is poor.
.

- correct, nafta 2 is not significantly different.
certainly not the desired scrapping/removal of nafta.

- in the average day to day business,
it is often domestic companies who seek out quotes from china, now vietnam, india, etc.
we are the ones providing them with the specs & prints, and ask for a lower $ price with a decent lead time.

 

[tjreese]

Fine, I give. All hail Candace Owens for bashing a 16 year old girl.

a r

Fine, I give. All hail Candace Owens for bashing a 16 year old girl.

There is no winner. I never stated you were wrong. I just tried to give a reason why others may hold a different opinion.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Fine, I give. All hail Candace Owens for bashing a 16 year old girl.

a r

Fine, I give. All hail Candace Owens for bashing a 16 year old girl.

There is no winner. I never stated you were wrong. I just tried to give a reason why others may hold a different opinion.

Apologies, it was a bad response on my part.

We can agree to disagree on climate change while also agreeing it’s in really poor form for adults to drag a 16 year old girl for wanting to affect meaningful and positive environmental change.

How’s that.

 

[Purdue97]

.
Yes, I recognize the even Hillary was against it after she was for it, as well.
Nonetheless, as NYT reported at the time

Some Republicans agreed (that withdrawal was a poor choice), but only a few would publicly challenge the president. Senator John McCain of Arizona called the decision “a serious mistake” that would hurt America. “It will send a troubling signal of American disengagement in the Asia-Pacific region at a time we can least afford it."​

So-

I pointed out that not just HC and Trump, but quite a few of the Presidential hopefuls did not like it. Will add more wanted to revisit/change it. Obama did not have an easy sell with it either.

You now point out that some Republican Senators thought it was a poor move to back out of it. Fair enough.

But it was Trump's ego? OK.

Can it just not be that many people looked at NAFTA, then looked at PanPac and said we should either stop it or at least put the brakes on it? Or just looked at PanPac on its own and said no, or it needs more work?

Always got to come with a Trump critique, whether it is applicable or not.

 

[tjreese]

Apologies, it was a bad response on my part.

We can agree to disagree on climate change while also agreeing it’s in really poor form for adults to drag a 16 year old girl for wanting to affect meaningful and positive environmental change.

How’s that.

very good and no apology is needed...I'm fine.

 

[bonefish1]

Why should I tolerate someone who would be fine if I wasn't here?

That has nothing to do with tolerating anything. Again, your inability to look at anything that doesn't fit into your straight white bubble really disqualifies any type of argument in good faith you may think you're having.

Pence doesn't like gay people, and I don't like him. I in no way need to associate with anyone who feels that way about me. That isn't about tolerance.

Thus, your lack of tolerance for someone who believes something differently than you.
Do you see the hypocrisy?
Thank you for emphasizing my point.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Why should I tolerate someone who would be fine if I wasn't here?

That has nothing to do with tolerating anything. Again, your inability to look at anything that doesn't fit into your straight white bubble really disqualifies any type of argument in good faith you may think you're having.

Pence doesn't like gay people, and I don't like him. I in no way need to associate with anyone who feels that way about me. That isn't about tolerance.

Thus, your lack of tolerance for someone who believes something differently than you.
Do you see the hypocrisy?
Thank you for emphasizing my point.

Yes, how intolerant of me that I don’t like someone who would prefer me dead. You’re right, I’m the intolerant one here. Your straight white privilege has really flared up.

 

[bonefish1]

Also, it's not a lifestyle. JFC.

Ok....lifestyle, choice, orientation...whatever you want to call it, not everyone is going to like it. Just like not everyone likes Catholics or blacks or whatever.
It’s ok if you don’t like Pence. Just don’t claim to be tolerant of others with differing opinions.

 

[bonefish1]

Yes, how intolerant of me that I don’t like someone who would prefer me dead. You’re right, I’m the intolerant one here. Your straight white privilege has really flared up.

Show me where Pence said he’d prefer gay people were dead.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Also, it's not a lifestyle. JFC.

Ok....lifestyle, choice, orientation...whatever you want to call it, not everyone is going to like it. Just like not everyone likes Catholics or blacks or whatever.
It’s ok if you don’t like Pence. Just don’t claim to be tolerant of others with differing opinions.

You are exactly why anti discrimination and hate crime laws are put into place.

In the spirit of keeping the board more civil, I’ll refrain from saying anything more.

 

[ecouch]

You are exactly why anti discrimination and hate crime laws are put into place.

In the spirit of keeping the board more civil, I’ll refrain from saying anything more.

You are being as bad as he is.

Mike Pence doesn't want to kill you or want you dead.

 

[bonefish1]

You are exactly why anti discrimination and hate crime laws are put into place.

In the spirit of keeping the board more civil, I’ll refrain from saying anything more.

You’re so dramatic

 

[PurdueFan1]

You are exactly why anti discrimination and hate crime laws are put into place.

In the spirit of keeping the board more civil, I’ll refrain from saying anything more.

You are being as bad as he is.

Oh you’re right, silly me. I’m the one who is supposed to be tolerant of someone who hates entire segments of the population. Thanks for the ted talk.

 

[PurdueFan1]

You are exactly why anti discrimination and hate crime laws are put into place.

In the spirit of keeping the board more civil, I’ll refrain from saying anything more.

You’re so dramatic

Yep, you got me.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Pence has been on the board of the Indiana Family Institute, a far-right group that is against equal rights for homosexuals. Pence, in fact, campaigned against equal rights. I just finished two biographies of Pence and he is, according to the authors, strongly against any protection or rights for gays. I think he keeps a low profile now as he, again according to the biographers, desperately wants to be president. [The Shadow President: The Truth About Mike Pence and Pence: The Path To Power].

 

[PurdueFan1]

Pence has been on the board of the Indiana Family Institute, a far-right group that is against equal rights for homosexuals. Pence, in fact, campaigned against equal rights. I just finished two biographies of Pence and he is, according to the authors, strongly against any protection or rights for gays. I think he keeps a low profile now as he, again according to the biographers, desperately wants to be president. [The Shadow President: The Truth About Mike Pence and Pence: The Path To Power].

Thank you for putting this out there, Beth. I was too tired to look him up tonight lol.

 

[ecouch]

Pence has been on the board of the Indiana Family Institute, a far-right group that is against equal rights for homosexuals. Pence, in fact, campaigned against equal rights. I just finished two biographies of Pence and he is, according to the authors, strongly against any protection or rights for gays. I think he keeps a low profile now as he, again according to the biographers, desperately wants to be president. [The Shadow President: The Truth About Mike Pence and Pence: The Path To Power].

Are you a birther?

If not, why? I can recommend some books seeing as you in to conspiracy theories.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Pence has been on the board of the Indiana Family Institute, a far-right group that is against equal rights for homosexuals. Pence, in fact, campaigned against equal rights. I just finished two biographies of Pence and he is, according to the authors, strongly against any protection or rights for gays. I think he keeps a low profile now as he, again according to the biographers, desperately wants to be president. [The Shadow President: The Truth About Mike Pence and Pence: The Path To Power].

Are you a birther?

If not, why? I can recommend some books seeing as you in to conspiracy theories.

For crying out loud, just stop.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Are you a birther?

If not, why? I can recommend some books seeing as you in to conspiracy theories.

No, I am not a birther. Although I am not sure what that has to do with Pence being anti-gay???? As governor, Mike Pence signed into law a bill, Religious Freedom Restoration Act [RFRA] that denied rights to gays. I remember a bit about it because the NCAA came out against it. I think Pence had to sign an amendment because there was a big outcry by companies, etc doing business in Indiana. Even the NCAA threatened but can't remember exactly what.

 

[ecouch]

No, I am not a birther. Although I am not sure what that has to do with Pence being anti-gay???? As governor, Mike Pence signed into law a bill, Religious Freedom Restoration Act [RFRA] that denied rights to gays. I remember a bit about it because the NCAA came out against it. I think Pence had to sign an amendment because there was a big outcry by companies, etc doing business in Indiana. Even the NCAA threatened but can't remember exactly what.

Oh it was worse than that. Pence had ****ing monks in their burlap sacks standing behind him. It was also a private event, no press.

You don't have to tell me about that. That said, Pence has backed off those stances, that bill was quashed, and he has backed down on that position. Perhaps he is an actual statesman. Perhaps he is not. I just want honest governance.

Look, I'm an outspoken athiest. Pence and I would not agree on a lot of issues. That doesn't mean we can't get together on certain issues. His gay stuff is bad. Since that one Indiana bill he has been largely silent on the issue.

This is why I love Mitch so much. His actual canpaign and reign (thats a bad word) were all about pushing fiscal responsavbility while pushing the hot button, low percentage, issues to the side. And he won. And he is still rocking it.1

 

[ecouch]

As another weird aside as well a shout out to Mitch....Purdue got a shout out in the Sam Harris Podcast.

 

[bonefish1]

No, I am not a birther. Although I am not sure what that has to do with Pence being anti-gay???? As governor, Mike Pence signed into law a bill, Religious Freedom Restoration Act [RFRA] that denied rights to gays. I remember a bit about it because the NCAA came out against it. I think Pence had to sign an amendment because there was a big outcry by companies, etc doing business in Indiana. Even the NCAA threatened but can't remember exactly what.

Another way of saying “denied rights to gays” is saying “gave people the right to exhibit their religious beliefs”.

 

[indy35]

Another way of saying “denied rights to gays” is saying “gave people the right to exhibit their religious beliefs”.

No it’s not, It’s just an excuse to discriminate against people they don’t like.



“We don't do gay weddings or mixed race": Mississippi wedding venue turns away family in viral video
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missis...deo-boone-camp-hall-sister-booneville-couple/

 

[Bethboilerfan]

Another way of saying “denied rights to gays” is saying “gave people the right to exhibit their religious beliefs”.

Pope Francis, former President Jimmy Carter, Pete Buttigieg and I do not agree with you.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

The second to last paragraph in there overrides everything else in my opinion because he said it AS THE PRESIDENT.

Why do white supremacists fawn over him and not prior presidents? Gnaw on that one a bit.

Why does Antifa love Obama?

 

[PurdueFan1]

The second to last paragraph in there overrides everything else in my opinion because he said it AS THE PRESIDENT.

Why do white supremacists fawn over him and not prior presidents? Gnaw on that one a bit.

Why does Antifa love Obama?

But OBAMA. And Hillary’s EMAILS!

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Oh you’re right, silly me. I’m the one who is supposed to be tolerant of someone who hates entire segments of the population. Thanks for the ted talk.

Okay....enough of the Pence hates you. He doesn't, and I doubt he knows you.

From the Washington Post/The Fix:

Deputy White House press secretary Judd Deere tweeted Sunday “for all who still think our @VP is anti-gay” to consider the lunch.


Judd Deere

✔@JuddPDeere45
https://twitter.com/JuddPDeere45/status/1168679549275652097

For all of you who still think our @VP is anti-gay, I point you to his and the @SecondLady’s schedule tomorrow where they will join Taoiseach @LeoVaradkar and his partner Dr. Matthew Barrett for lunch in Ireland.

@merrionstreet


8:18 PM - Sep 2, 2019

Accepting Deere’s implication that the Pences can’t be anti-gay, because of their willingness to dine with a gay couple, would require ignoring the impact that the policy positions the vice president has supported for years have had on LGBT people.

Deere, one of the highest-ranking openly gay staff members in the Trump White House, is tasked with regularly defending the administration to the public, and he has pushed back on the idea that his bosses aren’t supporters of the LGBT community.

“The left really wants to continue to push what I consider to be a disgusting message that LGBT Americans are threatened under this administration,” Deere told BuzzFeed in an interview earlier this year. “It’s just a smear campaign.”

Other Deere quotes from the profile include:

“I’ve clearly been hired, and promoted since I’ve got here, and I’m completely open about who I am."

“These individuals that I work with in this building don’t treat me any differently because I’m gay."

 

[PurdueFan1]

Oh you’re right, silly me. I’m the one who is supposed to be tolerant of someone who hates entire segments of the population. Thanks for the ted talk.

Okay....enough of the Pence hates you. He doesn't, and I doubt he knows you.

From the Washington Post/The Fix:

Deputy White House press secretary Judd Deere tweeted Sunday “for all who still think our @VP is anti-gay” to consider the lunch.


Judd Deere

✔@JuddPDeere45
https://twitter.com/JuddPDeere45/status/1168679549275652097

For all of you who still think our @VP is anti-gay, I point you to his and the @SecondLady’s schedule tomorrow where they will join Taoiseach @LeoVaradkar and his partner Dr. Matthew Barrett for lunch in Ireland.

@merrionstreet


8:18 PM - Sep 2, 2019

Accepting Deere’s implication that the Pences can’t be anti-gay, because of their willingness to dine with a gay couple, would require ignoring the impact that the policy positions the vice president has supported for years have had on LGBT people.

Deere, one of the highest-ranking openly gay staff members in the Trump White House, is tasked with regularly defending the administration to the public, and he has pushed back on the idea that his bosses aren’t supporters of the LGBT community.

“The left really wants to continue to push what I consider to be a disgusting message that LGBT Americans are threatened under this administration,” Deere told BuzzFeed in an interview earlier this year. “It’s just a smear campaign.”

Other Deere quotes from the profile include:

“I’ve clearly been hired, and promoted since I’ve got here, and I’m completely open about who I am."

“These individuals that I work with in this building don’t treat me any differently because I’m gay."

Great copy/paste skills. Maybe use them for someone else. Pence has already shown who he is.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Thank you for putting this out there, Beth. I was too tired to look him up tonight lol.

No, I am not a birther. Although I am not sure what that has to do with Pence being anti-gay???? As governor, Mike Pence signed into law a bill, Religious Freedom Restoration Act [RFRA] that denied rights to gays. I remember a bit about it because the NCAA came out against it. I think Pence had to sign an amendment because there was a big outcry by companies, etc doing business in Indiana. Even the NCAA threatened but can't remember exactly what.

Beth, Gays have the same rights as everyone else, and the bill you speak of was designed to give "special rights" to the LBGT communities. I'll challenge you, or anyone to tell me a right I have as a straight white male, that any member of the gay/lesbian community does not.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Great copy/paste skills. Maybe use them for someone else. Pence has already shown who he is.

Believe what you wish. Wishing it were true doesn't make it so. Your intolerance is amazing.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Thank you for putting this out there, Beth. I was too tired to look him up tonight lol.

No, I am not a birther. Although I am not sure what that has to do with Pence being anti-gay???? As governor, Mike Pence signed into law a bill, Religious Freedom Restoration Act [RFRA] that denied rights to gays. I remember a bit about it because the NCAA came out against it. I think Pence had to sign an amendment because there was a big outcry by companies, etc doing business in Indiana. Even the NCAA threatened but can't remember exactly what.

Beth, Gays have the same rights that everyone else have, and the bill you speak of was designed to give "special rights" to the LBGT communities. I'll challenge you, or anyone to tell me a right I have as a straight white male, that any member of the gay/lesbian community does not.

You’re such a liar. That bill was designed to do nothing of the sort.

Gays DO NOT have the same rights as everyone else. If they did, then my buddy in Texas wouldn’t be fearful every day of losing his job if his company finds out he’s gay because that’s allowed in Texas. Stop, Twin. I’m asking you please just stop. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Great copy/paste skills. Maybe use them for someone else. Pence has already shown who he is.

Believe what you wish. Wishing it were true doesn't make it so. Your intolerance is amazing.

Yep, I’m the intolerant one alright. You got me Twin. I’m intolerant because I want nothing to do with someone who would never want anything to do with me. Woo boy you got me there.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

No it’s not, It’s just an excuse to discriminate against people they don’t like.



“We don't do gay weddings or mixed race": Mississippi wedding venue turns away family in viral video
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missis...deo-boone-camp-hall-sister-booneville-couple/

It's called religious beliefs Indy. And guess what...if we're to remain the greatest country ever, then religious freedoms to choose whom one does business with has to be allowed. If you don't like their policy, do your bidding elsewhere. But don't attempt to force your beliefs on others.

 

[PurdueFan1]

No it’s not, It’s just an excuse to discriminate against people they don’t like.



“We don't do gay weddings or mixed race": Mississippi wedding venue turns away family in viral video
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missis...deo-boone-camp-hall-sister-booneville-couple/

It's called religious beliefs Indy. And guess what...if we're to remain the greatest country ever, then religious freedoms to choose whom one does business with has to be allowed. If you don't like their policy, do your bidding elsewhere. But don't attempt to force your beliefs on others.

Don’t attempt to force your beliefs on others. Yet isn’t that what the religious belief laws allow for? My god the gymnastics with you Twin.

 

[70boiler]

Beth, Gays have the same rights as everyone else, and the bill you speak of was designed to give "special rights" to the LBGT communities. I'll challenge you, or anyone to tell me a right I have as a straight white male, that any member of the gay/lesbian community does not.

Ummm, not exactly true really.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

You’re such a liar. That bill was designed to do nothing of the sort.

Gays DO NOT have the same rights as everyone else. If they did, then my buddy in Texas wouldn’t be fearful every day of losing his job if his company finds out he’s gay because that’s allowed in Texas. Stop, Twin. I’m asking you please just stop. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

You know, at times you've had some pretty good discussions. Most folks could give two shits less if you're gay or straight. I'm guessing had you not brought it up, no one here would have known you are gay.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Ummm, not exactly true really.

Okay...proof please. But hurry, I need wash and wax the bike.

 

[bonefish1]

You’re such a liar. That bill was designed to do nothing of the sort.

Gays DO NOT have the same rights as everyone else. If they did, then my buddy in Texas wouldn’t be fearful every day of losing his job if his company finds out he’s gay because that’s allowed in Texas. Stop, Twin. I’m asking you please just stop. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Just so I’m clear...if your buddy came out to his employer, his employer could fire him simply with the justification of doing so because he’s gay? Is that what you’re claiming?
Why would your buddy want to work for that employer in the first place?

 

[bonefish1]

Don’t attempt to force your beliefs on others. Yet isn’t that what the religious belief laws allow for? My god the gymnastics with you Twin.

Actually no. If someone doesn’t want to bake you a cake for a same sex marriage because it makes them feel uncomfortable and is not consistent with their personal beliefs, who are you to say they should feel differently?
Just as you being gay isn’t a choice, for many people, their faith and religious values are not a choice either, it’s who they are.
Go find another baker.

 

[70boiler]

Okay...proof please. But hurry, I need wash and wax the bike.

Off the top of my head you can check adoption and foster care laws or absences. As I recall there was recently a gay couple with an adopted child and the child was denied citizenship based on the parents marriage status, am I recalling correctly?