That is strictly your interpretation. I never said anything like that but I'm also not saying like you did that Keady made the choice when he didn't.
Coach Painter and Coach (Cuonzo) Martin
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Lbodel - You are just wrong about an awful lot of stuff in this thread. Painter was not a popular hire with Purdue fans....at the time he was hired the favorites:
First Choice - "outside the family
Second Choice - Lavin
At the time of the hire the fan base was very angry....as the program had fallen off the cliff. Hiring a 33 year old with no experience outside of mid major basketball.......was not a popular choice among Purdue fans. Burke took quite a risk with the hire of Painter.....at the time most of the "young guns" (except for Billy Donovan) were in the process of failing.
Burke should be ripped for the Hope hire....bad hire.
However Painter's career turns out....Burke gets the credit.....or the blame.
33 year olds with only one year head coaching exp, and zero years as an asst at big conference school.....very rarely get the keys to a job like Purdue job. Burke took a big risk with the hire of Painter.
I don't think I'm the one with a bunch of errors.
Maybe in your opinion, but the hire was well received in the media and with fans (for example, Andy Katz wrote a lengthy feature about the hire...a positive article). And after his first season as head coach, people were extremely optimistic after seeing improvement, even with a depleted roster - and ticket sales showed it.
Someone in this thread said Painter and Keady weren't close at all. Interesting, Painter is quoted as saying he called Keady on a regular basis through his rise in the coaching ranks - including a regular lengthy call after each season he had.
Also, Painter is quoted saying that Keady called him to see if he would be interested in coming to Purdue, not Burke.
You can also find multiple articles that say that Keady offered Bruce the same situation a couple years earlier and he declined it, and Keady kept a running list for this situation. One article from 2011 has the headline: "Matt Painter rewards Keady’s selection"
I don't get why people get so bent out of shape about this. It's clear that Keady was heavily involved in the coaching transition - why is that so offensive? I guess people still are bitter towards him.
Also, for the people talking about "bad blood" or whatever crap between these guys, Purdue Basketball retweeted this photo from Cuonzo this afternoon...looks like they hate each other!!
The Matt Painter hire was not a popular hire among Purdue fans....at the time it was announced. An Andy Katz article...or opinions 2 years after coach in waiting was announced....do nothing to dispute that fact.I don't think I'm the one with a bunch of errors.
Maybe in your opinion, but the hire was well received in the media and with fans (for example, Andy Katz wrote a lengthy feature about the hire...a positive article). And after his first season as head coach, people were extremely optimistic after seeing improvement, even with a depleted roster - and ticket sales showed it.
Someone in this thread said Painter and Keady weren't close at all. Interesting, Painter is quoted as saying he called Keady on a regular basis through his rise in the coaching ranks - including a regular lengthy call after each season he had.
Also, Painter is quoted saying that Keady called him to see if he would be interested in coming to Purdue, not Burke.
You can also find multiple articles that say that Keady offered Bruce the same situation a couple years earlier and he declined it, and Keady kept a running list for this situation. One article from 2011 has the headline: "Matt Painter rewards Keady’s selection"
I don't get why people get so bent out of shape about this. It's clear that Keady was heavily involved in the coaching transition - why is that so offensive? I guess people still are bitter towards him.
Also, for the people talking about "bad blood" or whatever crap between these guys, Purdue Basketball retweeted this photo from Cuonzo this afternoon...looks like they hate each other!!
Talks with Weber didn't even get close to an offer stage...because Keady wanted an open ended retirement date. Weber had no interest in returning as an asst for 2-3 years. The same thing that made Keady a very good coach....his street fighter personality....made a graceful exit very difficult to accomplish,
Keady hired Todd Foster with no coaching experience....at a time when Painter was an asst and driving a fork truck on side to make ends meet. Also hired Thrash....and then Zo with no coaching experience. Multiple opportunities to hire Painter...and took a pass.
Keady had free reign to hire his assistant coaches. In head coaching search Burke sought Keady's input, Weber's input.....as well as a lot of others in his search. Keady was not calling the shots as a lame duck with an expiring contract.
After Painter's last place finish in Big Ten 2 years ago ......there was NOBODY blaming Keady. A lot of posters were blaming Burke for a bad hiring decision.
Blame Burke for Painter decision in down cycle
Credit Keady for Painter hire
in up cycle.
When you say Painter was not a popular hire, you might be recalling your personal feelings about the situation. I recall most folks being very pleased with the hire. Painter was considered to be a young up-and-comer, with a great basketball mind. Personally, I recall being delighted with the hire. I just can't agree with your perspective on this.
As for whether Keady would hired Painter as an asisstant or not, I think you are speculating about the situation, and guessing at the reasons. Again, you are mixing some facts and some specualtion, and calling it a fact. Maybe Painter wasn't interested.
I think you are being very closed minded about other's opinions which may be just as valid as yours. I don't understand the animosity you are expressing toward other posters. You weren't in the room with Keady and Burke, and you don't know what happened between those two gentlemen. Yet you seem to violently object to anyone else's speculation, announcing that only you have the right conclusions. I would ask you to cool down and accept that you might not have to whole story either.
I agree with MathBoy here.When you say Painter was not a popular hire, you might be recalling your personal feelings about the situation. I recall most folks being very pleased with the hire. Painter was considered to be a young up-and-comer, with a great basketball mind. Personally, I recall being delighted with the hire. I just can't agree with your perspective on this.
I do not post a lot but read a lot and I remember there being questions as to whether he was ready but I too believe that the over all feeling was positive.
It is possible you recall those questions as being more negative than I do (and apparently mathboy does.) but in my OPINION the hire was looked at as a mostly positive thing. It is really, as mb points out, a point of opinion and not a thing that any of us can claim a factual stand either way.
I personally, was pleased with the CMP hire at the time even though I thought Coach Lavin would have been a good and exciting choice for us when his name came up as a possibility. That said I don't think Coach Martin had the resume' at that time to get the job; today would be a different story. On any issue anymore you have those vocals on both sides, it's the way of the world now. I just don't recall a lot of negative response at that time though.
But again, as others are pointing out, you seem to be mixing your opinion in with general opinion.
First off, the Andy Katz article was written July 30, 2004 - a few months after the transition was announced, not 2 years.
It was a generally well received hire. He was a known guy, he was coaching at a successful program and had just led that team to the NCAA Tournament. Were there people that thought we'd get some huge name and were disappointed? I'm sure there was. But the "general" consensus was positive.
Who Keady hired and didn't hire doesn't mean anything. You have no idea why or why not someone was hired or wasn't hired.
After the last place finish, of course there were people upset with Painter. I don't think there was a whole lot of resentment about the hire given the years of success that did occur - most people seem to just think we can do better, not that Painter's doing horrible. To say it was a bad hire 2 years ago is a naive statement - no matter who the person blamed (Burke or Keady). It's just like Tiller's hire - it was a great hire, but when it started to trail off, it was left to flounder too long. That was the problem with Burke's handling and people were upset about, not that he had hired Tiller in the first place. You can't water it down to be generic. And you also can't cater to the few "crazies" that are loud but are completely in the minority.
The Painter situation was odd to me because we had top 25 recruiting classes coming in so it's not like there wasn't a "light at the end of the tunnel". Those 2 bad years were certainly not fun or desired, but we weren't digging ourselves deeper into a hole like with football where the recruiting kept going downhill.
Painter is the better chef. Game,set, and match. He just struggles a little with the coffee thing.
If Matt Painter hypothetically announced he was leaving Purdue tomorrow and:
Burke hired the following resume:
1) 33 years old
2) asst coaching stops at Washington & Jefferson, Barton, Eastern Illlinois, SIU
3) 1 year head coach, MVC coach of year, league title. 0-1NCAA tournament record
That would be a popular hire today with Purdue fanbase?
You flat out said "
That is where we disagree and have since the start. As to making phone calls, Keady took phone calls weekly from a lot of ex players including ones who had nothing to do with basketball. I think BF has a point in the fact that Keady had the opportunity and never hired Matt as an assistant, yet you claim he was the one that Keady forced Burke to hire.
good discussion/debate on who wanted Painter as Keady's successor
I didn't know the details. I admit that I wasn't following the program as closely at the time this decision was made. I had decided in my mind that they weren't going to get to a Final Four or further under Keady after the Elite Eight loss in 2000, so that had tempered my enthusiasm. With the mostly underwhelming or disappointing seasons that followed (particularly the '03-'04 season), that seemed to validate my thoughts on the matter and I became disinterested in watching and paying attention for a couple of years there (plus I was in school at the time and dealing with other stuff, etc.).
Painter had been an assistant coach at different levels for 6 years (ever since he graduated; plus a HC for one season) before 'Zo was hired as an assistant at Purdue, so I can understand him looking like the more proven candidate between the two of them at the time.
I didn't know the details. I admit that I wasn't following the program as closely at the time this decision was made. I had decided in my mind that they weren't going to get to a Final Four or further under Keady after the Elite Eight loss in 2000, so that had tempered my enthusiasm. With the mostly underwhelming or disappointing seasons that followed (particularly the '03-'04 season), that seemed to validate my thoughts on the matter and I became disinterested in watching and paying attention for a couple of years there (plus I was in school at the time and dealing with other stuff, etc.).
Painter had been an assistant coach at different levels for 6 years (ever since he graduated; plus a HC for one season) before 'Zo was hired as an assistant at Purdue, so I can understand him looking like the more proven candidate between the two of them at the time.
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You are backing into a corner here, that will be difficult to get out of. I suggest that you just concede that a few other's opinions of the Painter hire might have merit, and leave it at that.
Here is the problem with your very hypothetical question, you didn't complete the picture. For example how about we add the following criteria and see how it plays:
- The candidate played at Purdue
- He was highly recommend by your current HOF coach
- He was willing to come in as an assistant, and this allowed Purdue to follow the succession model of thone of the most successful programs in the country (MSU)
If Painter left I only want to see two coaches fill the spot...ZO or Linc Darner.
Good thing is Painter is not going anywhere for another 15+ years...I hope even longer.....
Boiler Up!
Just for the record:
1) Love Coach Keady and was thankful to meet him and chat with him several times.
2) Love Coach Weber and again was thankful to have met and chatted with him a couple times.
3) Love Coach Painter and am thankful to have met and chatted with him a few times, including one time at the Final 4 in Detroit when I met his father.
4) Love Coach Martin and am thankful to have met and chatted with him a few times..great personality and father figure.
5) Love Morgan Burke. Great, straight forward business man with a great personality and loves everything Purdue.
I would suggest that all of you get to meet these people sometimes.
FYI, just go to Purdue anytime and walk upstairs to the athletic offices and ask to see Painter or Burke, they if not busy will say hello and with no reservation.
Love that about Purdue...one big happy family!
Boiler Up!
Include all of that and whatever else you think is relevant to fanbase as a whole.You are backing into a corner here, that will be difficult to get out of. I suggest that you just concede that a few other's opinions of the Painter hire might have merit, and leave it at that.
Here is the problem with your very hypothetical question, you didn't complete the picture. For example how about we add the following criteria and see how it plays:
You want so badly to be proven right that you are setting weird strawmen to beat down just to prove your point. It ain't going to work.
- The candidate played at Purdue
- He was highly recommend by your current HOF coach
- He was willing to come in as an assistant, and this allowed Purdue to follow the succession model of thone of the most successful programs in the country (MSU)
Just looking for a "yes or "no" on whether that resume would be popular with the fanbase .....if a new coach had to be hired tomorrow?
I hope Painter is at Purdue 20 more years. He inherited a good historical program ....but one that was in a mess. He has done a good job.....and is just entering what is normally the prime years for a head coach. In addition the coaching landscape is going to change dramatically over next 5-10 years. Painter is well positioned to take advantage of that..imo.
Half of hiring a head coach is name recognition. Matt Painter was tabbed as a bright, young coach - and people were keeping tabs of him. Matt Painter played at Purdue during the height of Purdue Basketball's popularity and was a well known guy within the Purdue community.
I mean this is just one example - but Minnesota hired Richard Pitino at a younger age than Painter and with less accolades. He was a coach at FIU for 1 season and finished 4th in the Sun Belt. But the guy has name recognition and a strong pedigree. He didn't have a year as a coach-in-waiting either.
I didn't say he "forced" him to hire Painter like he had a gun to his head. I said that's who Keady wanted, Keady contacted Painter to gauge his interest and Burke embraced it and went along with it. I certainly wouldn't credit it as Burke's "idea".
You're really arguing semantics. What started this is when someone credited Burke with this idea/plan, and I simply said I don't think I'd give him full credit for that.
You know I was going to let this go but Morgan has again said publicly that every AD keeps a list of replacements in his back pocket. So your saying that list is meaningless? I'm not going to change my mind with your conjecture. Morgan has always taken the reins. That's the kind of guy he is. There have been many complaints from Keady and Tiller about his handling of the two major sports. Yet you are saying that this important decision was Keady's. Ummmm No!
Purdue was 39-33 in big ten games during Painter's playing career. They won one NCAA tournament game.
You call that "the height of Purdue basketball popularity"?
As for pitino jr...he did have a thin resume as well. But his resume included being an assistant under Billy Donovan at Florida and Rick Pitino at Louisville. He had experience recruiting at major college level at two big time programs.....before becoming a head coach at FIU.
If that coach were Chris Krammer or one of a handful of other former Boilermakers who GOT IT, then there would be the same questions but if the program was where it was when Painter decided to be the coach in waiting, I think most of us would be OK with it.
After last year and if next year is anything like we hope and it is no one that we knew, then it would likely not be a popular hire.
When did I ever say this was not the case? My post previously said that they talked about doing it with Weber a few years before, then Keady kept a running list and Painter was the top of it at the time. You act like Keady and Burke aren't allowed to speak to eachother. If Keady was long gone and not in the picture, I would doubt that Burke would have had Painter as his #1. Doesn't mean I am angry with Burke for this, am bitter with Burke, etc. - just that Keady was heavily instrumental in making it happen.
Why are you making this so combative?
Did you also want to mention that Mackey Arena was sold out for nearly all home games during that time? And that he played in 3 NCAA Tournaments? And he was teammates with Glenn Robinson, the biggest name to play at Purdue in the last 30 years? His other teammates were guys like Cuonzo Martin, Matt Waddell, Ian Stanback, Porter Roberts, Herb Dove, Linc Darner, Todd Foster, Justin Jennings, etc. - all very well recognized names. To even remotely act like people didn't know who Matt Painter was is just absurd. I'm not saying he played during the most famous season of Purdue Basketball history. But the 80s/90s were the height of Purdue basketball popularity.
Again, why the nitpicking and combativeness? Jesus.
Huh? You made a statement that Painter played during the height of the popularity of Purdue basketball. That is simply false. Painter played during the second worst stretch of Keady's career. In fact after Painter's senior the J&C ran an opinion column calling for the firing of Keady. They also ran a poll and the majority of fans that voted in that poll...voted yes to firing Keady. Luckily Burke didn't listen to the clowns at J&C.
You call that "the height of popularity" of Purdue basketball?
Certainly entitled to your opinion. ...you are just wrong.
First, second, or eleventh choice, however it shook out, both Burke and Keady endorsed Painter and are proud of that decision. Nobody has to be wrong here.
Stallings wanted the job....good coach...but not sure Purdue wanted to deal with his aloof personality (and oversized ego).
I think you are confusing our record at the time with the popularity of the program. Sold out seats are more a measure than the team's win-loss record at the time. Purdue fans were passionate about the team at the time.
...and to your other question, I would still pick Painter.
Not sure why you are picking such nits with the other posters. A lot of the back-and-forth is just your opinion vs other's opinions.
I really have no idea. I just speculate based on Keady's comments since then when discussing Painter and Martin. He clearly has great respect for both, as well as Weber.
There is no way Stallings was going to accept the "coach in waiting" situation that Burke was insisting on happening. He likes Nashville and makes a ton of cash.
No he most certainly is not wrong...it is a valid opinion that it he played at the height of Purdue Basketball popularity. Painter's career was sandwiched by Purdue's 3 Amigos and the Glenn Robinson teams which also merged into the 3 peat of Big Ten tiltes and continued into some relative success in the later 90's in the NCAAs culminating in an Elite 8. Mackey was rocking...Purdue MBB was very popular...you are just wrong - but that's just my opinion.
I agree with you. I recall Purdue basketball being at or near its zenith then. But hey, BF has shown an argumentative streak when contradicted, so don't get too worked up. He is welcome to his opinion.
The coach in waiting probably wouldn't have happened ....if Painter had passed on the job. Burke preferred coach in waiting. ..given circumstances. ...but would've waited another year if he didn't find a good fit. I agree Stallings didn't want to go back as asst. But he was very interested in taking over after Keady left.
If a few posters want to believe Purdue bball was at it's "zenith" during Painter's 4 year playing career. You are certainly entitled to that opinion. I don't happen to believe 39-33 big ten record (26-28 bt record last 3 years) was anywhere close to the zenith. There was a lot of angst in the fan base at that point in time.I agree with you. I recall Purdue basketball being at or near its zenith then. But hey, BF has shown an argumentative streak when contradicted, so don't get too worked up. He is welcome to his opinion.
I'm just glad Gene didn't choose Bruce to succeed him. Gene knows basketball, players, & coaches! I thought Bruce being here so long, was a lock to follow Gene. Fortunately, I was wrong. Whew! :0 Zo, Matt & Gene are all doing well. All's well that ends well, play on. Zo has plenty in the cubbard at Cal., no worries there.
You take everything so literally. Popularity doesn't happen year by year. If the Patriots started having .500 seasons, their fan base would not fall off the face of the earth in a year. Purdue's best attendance under Tiller was a .500 season - but it came after a trip to the Rose Bowl. Mackey was sold out almost every single game during Matt Painter's career - which is a strong indicator that Purdue Basketball was popular. I didn't say Purdue Basketball had its greatest years, I said it was very popular during this time.
You said Purdue basketball was at the height of its popularity during Matt Painter era. That means more popular than threepeat era, more popular than baby boiler era, more popular than three amigo era, more popular than JBC era.
That is simply false. If Tom Brady retired tomorrow. ...and Patriots win one playoff game over next 4 years......Nobody would say that the next four years were the height of Patriots popularity. Nobody would say players in between baby boilers and Haas, VE, Swanigan.....played at the height of Purdue basketball popularity. Except perhaps you, pig, and mathboy would.
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