Anthem Protests continued last night

[tjreese]

I can post stories how a disproportionate numbers of blacks are killed by police.....
Or the low numbers of police prosecuted for shootings. The facts don't show a clear pattern either way imo.

But the point should be, what are we as a country doing to solve the problem? Everyone is so busy arguing about kneeling they won't stop and have a conversation. We have a president who is actually inflaming the argument instead of leading the charge to lower the tensions. The leaders of the AA community need to step up as well. But it starts at the top and as long as Trump continues to use racial division as a political tool we are solving nothing.

be careful with the word "disproportionate" as it may be quite a diversion. If the population the data is pulled is disproportion, it can easy be expected that the result was disproportionate. I understand how you feel Trump is not lowering the tension, but I truly believe that if it were white Antifa members kneeling or just white people kneeling the same approach would take place. I do NOT see this as an attack on blacks when he talks about kneeling and such. Clearly, a metric of measure truly understood as representative of the claims of racism would be a start and then "we" could begin to understand with more depth the reality of the situation as to whether it truly is better or worse. Right now there is a lot of get out the vote going on it seems to me.

You know what is really surprising to me is the lack of likes (and I'm not seeking likes by any means) of people on my comment about investigating ALL whose wealth gain is substantially greater than can be explained by salary and such...implying a financial gain much greater than salary as a result of office...on both sides of the aisle. You know the swamp is filled with many seeking financial gain over the country...and it hurts us all

 

[chiefboiler23]

IMO Lebron James is more worthy of our respect than those who are kneeling before games because he is truly doing something to help black young people. What good does kneeling really do? Not one person that I know who discusses the kneeling has discussed what they are kneeling for - they are just discussing the kneeling. I also believe that an employer has the right, within limits, to dictate what a person can/cannot do at his/her place of employment. NFL players need to find a better way to get their message across and one that doesn't alienate the people who support them. I read that the police in many places now refuse to go to any NFL games. Great - even more division between the police and the black community.

This topic isn't about respecting black athletes, so what does LeBron James have to do with anything? It is about awareness, and to your point the message of WHY there is kneeling or other forms of protest has gotten lost in the greater conversation of should it be done. Who's fault is that though? I know why they are protesting, because I chose to hear Colin words when he first sat, then kneeled. I chose to watch and absorb the numerous follow-up stories that explained it. Most people who talk about the kneeling talk about the disrespect aspect because it is easier than talking about the actual problem, which most don't want to acknowledge might exist.

How exactly can NFL players better get their message across? What is the best medium? You constantly have NFL owners, the league and the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES constantly shouting you down.

And as far as what else are these players doing to help their cause? They are doing a lot with their local communities...but that just doesn't get the headlines.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-teams-charitable-efforts-part-protests-running-list-134152884.html

For reference - I think the NFL's stance on punishing these players is dumb, but I support their right to do it because of the employer/employee dynamic. These players' jobs are not protected by the first amendment.

 

[PUBV]

Good!

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/south-flo...ott-miami-215808809--abc-news-topstories.html

An interesting article. I see they suggest boycotting the Dolphins by not purchasing Dolphin/NFL stuff in general. I wonder if these cops work and are paid by the Dolphins as security/traffic cops during the games? They could really show the Dolphins if they gave up those sweet sweet OT gigs. I remember in the 60s-70s-80s when my pops was a local city cop who worked every ND football game he could. I could just see his face if the FOP told him hey you can't work anymore ND games cuz a few of the kids aren't standing at attention during the anthem, as opposed to talking, heading to the concession stand, taking a dump, hitting fast forward on the DVR, etc...He would have blown his frickin stack! I also noticed the person being interviewed made sure to mention he considered Kapernick to be "privileged" I've seen people against the protests mention this as well as rich,overpaid, spoiled, etc.
Besides firing up us ham & eggers to be like, yeah they can't protest, they make more than me, that sucks, why mention their privilege/income?
And finally, what about all the innocent white guys these boycotts affect? Your hurting the O-Linemen & QBs just as much as the skill position players.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

IMO Lebron James is more worthy of our respect than those who are kneeling before games because he is truly doing something to help black young people. What good does kneeling really do? Not one person that I know who discusses the kneeling has discussed what they are kneeling for - they are just discussing the kneeling. I also believe that an employer has the right, within limits, to dictate what a person can/cannot do at his/her place of employment. NFL players need to find a better way to get their message across and one that doesn't alienate the people who support them. I read that the police in many places now refuse to go to any NFL games. Great - even more division between the police and the black community.

Lebron also makes about 100x more and is worth about 400x more than most of the kneelers. Lots of people in this thread assume these guys kneeling are all multi-millionaire players. That's not true. And I'm betting more would be kneeling if they were making more than the league minimum of $420K. And the average lifespan of an NFL career is 3.3 years (6 years if you make game day roster as a rookie), so many of these guys barely crack $1-2M in earnings during their pro careers. Hardly the lifestyle described by tjreese's letter.

I think Trump and conservatives have done a brilliant job of distracting from the issue, and that's why no one talks about it in the intended context. Instead, it's a bunch of false narratives about disrespecting soldiers and other bogus crap like that.

 

[tjreese]

I also noticed the person being interviewed made sure to mention he considered Kapernick to be "privileged" I've seen people against the protests mention this as well as rich,overpaid, spoiled, etc.
Besides firing up us ham & eggers to be like, yeah they can't protest, they make more than me, that sucks, why mention their privilege/income?

I'm sure different people have different reasons for "boycotting" the NFL, but I hope it isn't because the NFL players are rich only due to being rich. I suspect (guessing here) that the mention of wealth of the players is to note that gladiators today are not fighting to death, but are paid quite nicely for entertainment, rather than a productive capacity in some manner for the betterment of society...and THAT in this country a person can do quite nicely, with minimal knowledge as an entertainer. I'm all for a free market and for them to make what they can. It is a scorecard on society as to what "we" deem as important, and that is where we fail IMO.

I'm guessing that many find it quite ironic that those inside the entertainment with quite often minimal cognizant skills, are able to command a great living as a result of the country they live in and the country they denigrate during the national anthem instead of the many moments outside the anthem where they could protest. I suspect that many see kneeling as a lack of respect for what many consider...(in spite of some warts) the best country on earth and that protests are a disrespect to this country...particularly to the families that lost loved ones fighting for this country. I don't think the public cares as much about a protest other than doing it during the anthem, but all of this is a guess...since each may have different reasons. I do hope that "wealth in a vacuum" for the sake of wealth does not have anything to do with anyone thinking one should not protest...although the context of how that wealth was generated, may work to color the issue since this country being protested allowed the entertainers to flourish financially as entertainers...

 

[tjreese]

I'm sure different people have different reasons for "boycotting" the NFL, but I hope it isn't because the NFL players are rich only due to being rich. I suspect (guessing here) that the mention of wealth of the players is to note that gladiators today are not fighting to death, but are paid quite nicely for entertainment, rather than a productive capacity in some manner for the betterment of society...and THAT in this country a person can do quite nicely, with minimal knowledge as an entertainer. I'm all for a free market and for them to make what they can. It is a scorecard on society as to what "we" deem as important, and that is where we fail IMO.

I'm guessing that many find it quite ironic that those inside the entertainment with quite often minimal cognizant skills, are able to command a great living as a result of the country they live in and the country they denigrate during the national anthem instead of the many moments outside the anthem where they could protest. I suspect that many see kneeling as a lack of respect for what many consider...(in spite of some warts) the best country on earth and that protests are a disrespect to this country...particularly to the families that lost loved ones fighting for this country. I don't think the public cares as much about a protest other than doing it during the anthem, but all of this is a guess...since each may have different reasons. I do hope that "wealth in a vacuum" for the sake of wealth does not have anything to do with anyone thinking one should not protest...although the context of how that wealth was generated, may work to color the issue since this country being protested allowed the entertainers to flourish financially as entertainers...

I do NOT know the dispersion of salaries of NFL players , but the "AVERAGE" is 1.9 million a year according to Forbes and this is old data suggesting the average may even be higher today?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I do NOT know the dispersion of salaries of NFL players , but the "AVERAGE" is 1.9 million a year according to Forbes and this is old data suggesting the average may even be higher today?

The median salary is in the range of $750k - $850k. That's a more useful and realistic number in this situation. The average is pretty clearly skewed by the top 5-10% of salaries, when a guy like Aaron Rodgers is making $22M/yr and 15 other Packers make their respective league minimum salary (between $420K and 525K).

 

[SKYDOG]

An interesting article. I see they suggest boycotting the Dolphins by not purchasing Dolphin/NFL stuff in general. I wonder if these cops work and are paid by the Dolphins as security/traffic cops during the games? They could really show the Dolphins if they gave up those sweet sweet OT gigs. I remember in the 60s-70s-80s when my pops was a local city cop who worked every ND football game he could. I could just see his face if the FOP told him hey you can't work anymore ND games cuz a few of the kids aren't standing at attention during the anthem, as opposed to talking, heading to the concession stand, taking a dump, hitting fast forward on the DVR, etc...He would have blown his frickin stack! I also noticed the person being interviewed made sure to mention he considered Kapernick to be "privileged" I've seen people against the protests mention this as well as rich,overpaid, spoiled, etc.
Besides firing up us ham & eggers to be like, yeah they can't protest, they make more than me, that sucks, why mention their privilege/income?
And finally, what about all the innocent white guys these boycotts affect? Your hurting the O-Linemen & QBs just as much as the skill position players.

If your dad is still with us, I can't imagine what he thinks about all the disrespect and resistance to law enforcement today. Being a policeman is more than a tough job as almost no matter what they do it will be considered wrong by half the people today.

 

[SKYDOG]

The median salary is in the range of $750k - $850k. That's a more useful and realistic number in this situation. The average is pretty clearly skewed by the top 5-10% of salaries, when a guy like Aaron Rodgers is making $22M/yr and 15 other Packers make their respective league minimum salary (between $420K and 525K).

I sure hope they can feed their families on such a paltry salary.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I sure hope they can feed their families on such a paltry salary.

They only make it for 3-4 years at that level (if they're lucky), then they work regular jobs like you and me. But you don't seem to want to acknowledge that end of the message. No, instead, you guys want to believe they all own Ferraris and three houses and are just entitled liberal crybabies with fat bank rolls. Some of them are that. The majority are not.

 

[SKYDOG]

They only make it for 3-4 years at that level (if they're lucky), then they work regular jobs like you and me. But you don't seem to want to acknowledge that end of the message. No, instead, you guys want to believe they all own Ferraris and three houses and are just entitled liberal crybabies with fat bank rolls. Some of them are that. The majority are not.

They make more in those few years than 80-90% of workers do in their lifetime. I have no sympathy for these entitled liberal crybabies.

 

[chiefboiler23]

Can someone let me know what the threshold is on annual income before I lose my right to protest? Want to make sure I know which group of concerned citizen I fall into so I can complain appropriately.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

They make more in those few years than 80-90% of workers do in their lifetime. I have no sympathy for these entitled liberal crybabies.

I figured, as a capitalist, you would never bemoan someone making fair market value for a marketable skill. But I know most people are principled only so far as the end of their nose or as supports their argument du jour. 80-90% of people don’t create wealth for their bosses the way that these players do. In fact, they are underpaid by that standard.

 

[BoilerJS]

if incorrect posture during a song is unamerican,
that statement is a million times unamerican.

It's not the kneeling, it's the message on his shoes.
I cannot nor will not support anyone promoting the killing of police.
The copycat kneelers knew the message and I therefore Have no use for any of them.
There are cases of police brutality and misuse of their authority. And for every one of those cases there are 100 where they do good above and beyond.
The bad cases should be investigated and if the officer is found guilty punished.
You are ok with the protest message, I am not.

 

[BuilderBob6]

I'm sure different people have different reasons for "boycotting" the NFL, but I hope it isn't because the NFL players are rich only due to being rich. I suspect (guessing here) that the mention of wealth of the players is to note that gladiators today are not fighting to death, but are paid quite nicely for entertainment, rather than a productive capacity in some manner for the betterment of society...and THAT in this country a person can do quite nicely, with minimal knowledge as an entertainer. I'm all for a free market and for them to make what they can. It is a scorecard on society as to what "we" deem as important, and that is where we fail IMO.

I'm guessing that many find it quite ironic that those inside the entertainment with quite often minimal cognizant skills, are able to command a great living as a result of the country they live in and the country they denigrate during the national anthem instead of the many moments outside the anthem where they could protest. I suspect that many see kneeling as a lack of respect for what many consider...(in spite of some warts) the best country on earth and that protests are a disrespect to this country...particularly to the families that lost loved ones fighting for this country. I don't think the public cares as much about a protest other than doing it during the anthem, but all of this is a guess...since each may have different reasons. I do hope that "wealth in a vacuum" for the sake of wealth does not have anything to do with anyone thinking one should not protest...although the context of how that wealth was generated, may work to color the issue since this country being protested allowed the entertainers to flourish financially as entertainers...

So is the guy in the stands who doesn't take his hat off denigrating our country? How about the two girls next to me who talk continuously during the anthem? How about the kid texting on his phone? They aren't protesting...... but they are showing just as much disrespect for the anthem? I don't think they are millionaires if they're sitting in my section. They aren't black.
If it's not about color or income.......or even the protest.......it's just a matter of timing during the anthem and disrespecting our country and our vets........Why are these people not being vilified?

Sounds like you are ok with protests as long as people do it at the right time and place. Does the constitution put any conditions on protesting?

 

[hunkgolden]

In the same post you asked for videos you also stated "a few videos of black victims does not equate to systemic racism”. So how many do you need? 10, 50? You've already framed the argument in such a way that it doesn't matter how many. You essentially demanded videos as proof but said they won't convince you anyway. F that.

Its always the same with you. You never heard of Alex Jones but that didn't stop you from making judgements and drawing uninformed conclusions about his ban.

Police violence against blacks has been in the spotlight for some time, especially since the NFL protests started......yet you seem to know nothing about it. You should inform yourself about it and make a reasonable argument or stfu.

For every video you show me of a police officer shooting or abusing an AA without cause I can show you one of a white victim. Yet your media doesn't tell you this. Your media plays the race card to keep 90%+ of the AA's voting for the same party over and over - the one that keeps them hooked on government programs. Sorry - you're the one claiming systemic oppression. The burden of proof is on you. You have failed counselor.

 

[SKYDOG]

So is the guy in the stands who doesn't take his hat off denigrating our country? How about the two girls next to me who talk continuously during the anthem? How about the kid texting on his phone? They aren't protesting...... but they are showing just as much disrespect for the anthem? I don't think they are millionaires if they're sitting in my section. They aren't black.
If it's not about color or income.......or even the protest.......it's just a matter of timing during the anthem and disrespecting our country and our vets........Why are these people not being vilified?

Sounds like you are ok with protests as long as people do it at the right time and place. Does the constitution put any conditions on protesting?

The answer is YES they are disrespecting the country too. These highly paid athletes are looked upon as role models by young kids and adults. Either you don't get it or are you just jacking around with us?

 

[PurdueFan1]

I'm sure different people have different reasons for "boycotting" the NFL, but I hope it isn't because the NFL players are rich only due to being rich. I suspect (guessing here) that the mention of wealth of the players is to note that gladiators today are not fighting to death, but are paid quite nicely for entertainment, rather than a productive capacity in some manner for the betterment of society...and THAT in this country a person can do quite nicely, with minimal knowledge as an entertainer. I'm all for a free market and for them to make what they can. It is a scorecard on society as to what "we" deem as important, and that is where we fail IMO.

I'm guessing that many find it quite ironic that those inside the entertainment with quite often minimal cognizant skills, are able to command a great living as a result of the country they live in and the country they denigrate during the national anthem instead of the many moments outside the anthem where they could protest. I suspect that many see kneeling as a lack of respect for what many consider...(in spite of some warts) the best country on earth and that protests are a disrespect to this country...particularly to the families that lost loved ones fighting for this country. I don't think the public cares as much about a protest other than doing it during the anthem, but all of this is a guess...since each may have different reasons. I do hope that "wealth in a vacuum" for the sake of wealth does not have anything to do with anyone thinking one should not protest...although the context of how that wealth was generated, may work to color the issue since this country being protested allowed the entertainers to flourish financially as entertainers...

So is the guy in the stands who doesn't take his hat off denigrating our country? How about the two girls next to me who talk continuously during the anthem? How about the kid texting on his phone? They aren't protesting...... but they are showing just as much disrespect for the anthem? I don't think they are millionaires if they're sitting in my section. They aren't black.
If it's not about color or income.......or even the protest.......it's just a matter of timing during the anthem and disrespecting our country and our vets........Why are these people not being vilified?

Sounds like you are ok with protests as long as people do it at the right time and place. Does the constitution put any conditions on protesting?

Right? All these bubble-dwelling white people so bothered by someone kneeling during the anthem. The same anthem that these same white people are cracking another beer open during, talking during, taking a leak during, and not paying attention at all during. I can see why they are so bothered by the kneeling. Only the whites are allowed to make the rules.

 

[PUBV]

So is the guy in the stands who doesn't take his hat off denigrating our country? How about the two girls next to me who talk continuously during the anthem? How about the kid texting on his phone? They aren't protesting...... but they are showing just as much disrespect for the anthem? I don't think they are millionaires if they're sitting in my section. They aren't black.
If it's not about color or income.......or even the protest.......it's just a matter of timing during the anthem and disrespecting our country and our vets........Why are these people not being vilified?

Sounds like you are ok with protests as long as people do it at the right time and place. Does the constitution put any conditions on protesting?

This a bazillion times. Maybe somebody stands at attention at home/in a bar watching a game, but I have yet to witness it. I notice the anti protesters don't seem to want to address there lack of outrage to these instances.And why do we play the anthem before sporting (entertainment) events? I go to a movie, no anthem, watch a play, no anthem, go to a concert, no anthem.

 

[PUBV]

The answer is YES they are disrespecting the country too. These highly paid athletes are looked upon as role models by young kids and adults. Either you don't get it or are you just jacking around with us?

So I go to Between the Buns to watch a game,plenty of Dad's there with there sons watching too. Here come the anthem, nobody stands. I mean these Dads are role models for their kids right? So if Dad orders up a beer, flirts with waitress, makes a mad dash to the head while the anthem is playing, he is a shit role model for his kid on top of denigrating the flag while also disrespecting our troops and our first responders? This is why I find this argument to a peaceful protest soooo thin.

 

[PUBV]

If your dad is still with us, I can't imagine what he thinks about all the disrespect and resistance to law enforcement today. Being a policeman is more than a tough job as almost no matter what they do it will be considered wrong by half the people today.

Thank you for asking, but no he passed 14yrs ago.I do know what your saying about the disrespect, I honestly do. I hope I'm explaining this properly, but he took the shit he got as part of the job he signed up to do. Not to disrespect my Dad, but he struggled a bit in high school. I can still remember him coming home for lunch and having us help him write up some of his reports. Being a cop was a job he felt was good for him. He really liked helping those involved in domestic squabbles, many of whom didn't really show him respect, to work out their problems,and thus earn their respect.

 

[PUBV]

I'm sure different people have different reasons for "boycotting" the NFL, but I hope it isn't because the NFL players are rich only due to being rich. I suspect (guessing here) that the mention of wealth of the players is to note that gladiators today are not fighting to death, but are paid quite nicely for entertainment, rather than a productive capacity in some manner for the betterment of society...and THAT in this country a person can do quite nicely, with minimal knowledge as an entertainer. I'm all for a free market and for them to make what they can. It is a scorecard on society as to what "we" deem as important, and that is where we fail IMO.

I'm guessing that many find it quite ironic that those inside the entertainment with quite often minimal cognizant skills, are able to command a great living as a result of the country they live in and the country they denigrate during the national anthem instead of the many moments outside the anthem where they could protest. I suspect that many see kneeling as a lack of respect for what many consider...(in spite of some warts) the best country on earth and that protests are a disrespect to this country...particularly to the families that lost loved ones fighting for this country. I don't think the public cares as much about a protest other than doing it during the anthem, but all of this is a guess...since each may have different reasons. I do hope that "wealth in a vacuum" for the sake of wealth does not have anything to do with anyone thinking one should not protest...although the context of how that wealth was generated, may work to color the issue since this country being protested allowed the entertainers to flourish financially as entertainers...

I've noticed you often want others to provide solid facts and numbers when making their arguments, yet can make a statement that people in the entertainment industry quite often have minimal cognizant skills. Can you point to a solid study that backs this up? Can you point me to a study that shows who is apt to do more good for society, perhaps a study that compares the contributions to society of an college educated engineer who does minimal charitable work during the year vs a high school educated professional athlete who is involved with multiple charitable orginizations throughout the year? Are there studies comparing the value to society of cognizant vs physical skills? Who do you want operating on your knee. The guy who graduated at the top of his class who ain't that great with his hands and has no bedside skills, or the surgeon who graduated middle of his class with the hands of a maestro and impeccable bedside manner?
I'm thinking, and this is all my own observation, there's a lot of good old fashioned jealousy that frames people's angst towards professional athletes and there respective salarys, you know what I mean?

 

[Boilerscuz]

This is stupid. I don't care how much they make, I don't even care how much they support their own neighborhoods. It's not a first amendment thing it's about whether owners want their players politicizing the anthem. They have the right to work with their workforce to decide this thing.

I have the right as an entertainment buyer to either buy it or reject it. If people were doing political protests on stage before a play, I'd avoid it. If movies came with a heartfelt political message before they started I'd reject that as well. Don't care about the message, that's not what I'm buying.

 

[tjreese]

The median salary is in the range of $750k - $850k. That's a more useful and realistic number in this situation. The average is pretty clearly skewed by the top 5-10% of salaries, when a guy like Aaron Rodgers is making $22M/yr and 15 other Packers make their respective league minimum salary (between $420K and 525K).

no question there could be a skew and why I mentioned I did not know the dispersion. I typically don't like using the median on things, but that in comparison to the average gives a perspective. I would prefer to have all the data and actually see things. Still, 800K median is a yearly sum that equals 20 years of 40k...and not sure it changes the story...unless a lot of people on here are making 800K if that is a good figure...

 

[tjreese]

So is the guy in the stands who doesn't take his hat off denigrating our country? How about the two girls next to me who talk continuously during the anthem? How about the kid texting on his phone? They aren't protesting...... but they are showing just as much disrespect for the anthem? I don't think they are millionaires if they're sitting in my section. They aren't black.
If it's not about color or income.......or even the protest.......it's just a matter of timing during the anthem and disrespecting our country and our vets........Why are these people not being vilified?

Sounds like you are ok with protests as long as people do it at the right time and place. Does the constitution put any conditions on protesting?

for me...yes, I was taught to take a hat off when entering a building..and yes..all those are denigrating behavior when the anthem is played. course not everybody had the same upbringing as me. Next, yes...protesting is fine...part of this country, but there are places and times to do it...even if not stated what those are as you mention.

Not being a democrat anymore (short time mental lapse ) I have little to no respect for those in the entertainment business opinion's. I do not idolize them and find many utterly stupid...whether in music, pretending to be someone else or gladiators in the ring for distraction...not unlike the days of Rome relative to distractions. I think I told you "why" those are vilified. You may not like the reason...it may not make sense to you, but I suspect that "those" that despise that behavior do so for the reasons I suggested.

 

[tjreese]

Right? All these bubble-dwelling white people so bothered by someone kneeling during the anthem. The same anthem that these same white people are cracking another beer open during, talking during, taking a leak during, and not paying attention at all during. I can see why they are so bothered by the kneeling. Only the whites are allowed to make the rules.

seriously...you are creating a strawman making this about race instead of the anthem? Still, yes (not sure if you followed Bob or wrote before Bob) yes there are other forms of disrespect..some more obvious than others. The race card...now whud a figured that would get tossed out?

 

[PurdueFan1]

Right? All these bubble-dwelling white people so bothered by someone kneeling during the anthem. The same anthem that these same white people are cracking another beer open during, talking during, taking a leak during, and not paying attention at all during. I can see why they are so bothered by the kneeling. Only the whites are allowed to make the rules.

seriously...you are creating a strawman making this about race instead of the anthem? Still, yes (not sure if you followed Bob or wrote before Bob) yes there are other forms of disrespect..some more obvious than others. The race card...now whud a figured that would get tossed out?

Oh it’s not about race? Lol. Okay.

 

[tjreese]

I've noticed you often want others to provide solid facts and numbers when making their arguments, yet can make a statement that people in the entertainment industry quite often have minimal cognizant skills. Can you point to a solid study that backs this up? Can you point me to a study that shows who is apt to do more good for society, perhaps a study that compares the contributions to society of an college educated engineer who does minimal charitable work during the year vs a high school educated professional athlete who is involved with multiple charitable orginizations throughout the year? Are there studies comparing the value to society of cognizant vs physical skills? Who do you want operating on your knee. The guy who graduated at the top of his class who ain't that great with his hands and has no bedside skills, or the surgeon who graduated middle of his class with the hands of a maestro and impeccable bedside manner?
I'm thinking, and this is all my own observation, there's a lot of good old fashioned jealousy that frames people's angst towards professional athletes and there respective salarys, you know what I mean?

not at all..know of a man on the board for lilly that is no longer a surgeon because of a fall that left his hands not as skilled. everything you see and touch probably had a Purdue engineer at some point involved...other than the solar system. Look here we are again and it appears too hard to grasp. Many see the kneeling as disrespect. You can state that in your own mind they shouldn't...you can reason in your own mind other signs of disrespect are just as bad...but none of that changes the opinions of those that think kneeling is disrespectful. I said what my guess was as to why some consider it disrespectful. Nobody says you have to agree with those opinions as those with different opinions have to agree with yours.

 

[tjreese]

Oh it’s not about race? Lol. Okay.

don't dumb this down anymore than it is

 

[PurdueFan1]

Oh it’s not about race? Lol. Okay.

don't dumb this down anymore than it is

It’s literally WHY Kaepernick started kneeling in the first place. Lol. Basic google skills could help you here (speaking of dumbing things down).

 

[tjreese]

It’s literally WHY Kaepernick started kneeling in the first place. Lol. Basic google skills could help you here (speaking of dumbing things down).

no,,that is WHAT he stated..not why those that find it disrespectful. we were talking about why many consider it disrespectful during the anthem and those are not about race.

 

[PurdueFan1]

It’s literally WHY Kaepernick started kneeling in the first place. Lol. Basic google skills could help you here (speaking of dumbing things down).

no,,that is WHAT he stated..not why those that find it disrespectful. we were talking about why many consider it disrespectful during the anthem and those are not about race.

Oh gotcha. Didn’t realize those things were mutually exclusive.

 

[tjreese]

Oh gotcha. Didn’t realize those things were mutually exclusive.

Oh gawd...seriously? the topic being discussed concerned the view of those that found kneeling disrespectful. If you wanted to discuss WHY those were kneeling rather than those considering it disrespectful..then you would have a point..but you don't. Many shrubs are green and that too is not mutually exclusive to the ground below those kneeling in many cases.

 

[BuilderBob6]

For every video you show me of a police officer shooting or abusing an AA without cause I can show you one of a white victim. Yet your media doesn't tell you this. Your media plays the race card to keep 90%+ of the AA's voting for the same party over and over - the one that keeps them hooked on government programs. Sorry - you're the one claiming systemic oppression. The burden of proof is on you. You have failed counselor.

Lol. As I have said, you're not one to consider the whole picture or to even inform yourself. I'm not trying to win an argument here. Theres no way to prove this thing one way or another. It's a message board.

But you want to deny there's simply no problem at all.... I guess AA athletes are just doing this for shits and giggles.

It seems to me people like you are pissed off because rich black athletes come off as ungrateful by protesting during the national anthem. Rich and black seem to be a common theme. The timing of the protest is one issue, who's doing seems to be another.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

no question there could be a skew and why I mentioned I did not know the dispersion. I typically don't like using the median on things, but that in comparison to the average gives a perspective. I would prefer to have all the data and actually see things. Still, 800K median is a yearly sum that equals 20 years of 40k...and not sure it changes the story...unless a lot of people on here are making 800K if that is a good figure...

$40K is less than the average household income in the US. And again, consider the lifespan of their careers. As mentioned, 15 Packers making the league minimum of 420-525K for young players, and those guys aren't likely to have jobs in the NFL for more than 2-3 years (average is 3.3).

Yes, that's a great start for a young guy and if they're smart with their money they have a head start on probably all of us here. But they're certainly not spoiled rich millionaires, and they're certainly not set for life. Again, I think the comparison in the letter you shared is disingenuous, full of half-truths and misrepresentations, and yeah, it kinda pisses me off when people act like soldiers and veterans are pitiable.

 

[tjreese]

$40K is less than the average household income in the US. And again, consider the lifespan of their careers. As mentioned, 15 Packers making the league minimum of 420-525K for young players, and those guys aren't likely to have jobs in the NFL for more than 2-3 years (average is 3.3).

Yes, that's a great start for a young guy and if they're smart with their money they have a head start on probably all of us here. But they're certainly not spoiled rich millionaires, and they're certainly not set for life. Again, I think the comparison in the letter you shared is disingenuous, full of half-truths and misrepresentations, and yeah, it kinda pisses me off when people act like soldiers and veterans are pitiable.

I don’t know, nor need to know, why you get pissed off when something is interpreted by you as being pitiable to veterans or current military. That is your right to interpret things how you wish. I’m sure you have your reasons. People have disagreements all the time. Nor do I see how the story changes from those in various capacities of defending the country in relation to those viewed by many as denigrating the country. Whether we understand or not I think a lot (have no idea the percentage) with military ties do find it denigrating. I’m not interested enough to know the continual reference to the packers, but if we ignore the average, and the median, and go to the truncated tail of the distribution we don’t know, and use the 425K for a measly 3.3 years (using all of your minimal data) we end up with 425k-40k *3 or $1,155,000 more dollars in 3 years than that average figure of 40K you listed while ignoring that .3 of a year as well and get just 5% on the money we have in 40 years (65-25) a little over $8.1 million for 3 years work. 3.3 years with the minimum salary in the entertainment field is a lot of money compared to many that work 40 hours or more all year. Again, I don’t think the money in a vacuum is what is upsetting to some, but that the money is available in this country for a lot of people to make somehow and to denigrate (this is what I think most believe that are boycotting the NFL) the country that provides much. My guess is that $8.1 million is much more than most if not all in this forum working all 40 years and so it is not minimal either. Still, money by itself shouldn't be a reason for being upset against the kneelers

A lot of the country is divided on this and so there is reasons to expect that different opinions are found here. It is but one of many divides…

 

[hunkgolden]

But you want to deny there's simply no problem at all.... I guess AA athletes are just doing this for shits and giggles.

Does racism exist? No one is remotely arguing that. Every race has those within it that are bigoted towards another race or races. Racism is definitely on the decline though. The white nationalist rally in DC drew a whopping 24 people. Is this really even worth discussing? But that's not the reason given for the kneeling. If you recall this whole thing started with the hands up don't shoot. When we learned that narrative was a lie, the protest reason moved to police brutality of AA's. That fell on deaf ears because reasonable people know that 99.99% of police action shootings happen when the suspect (white or black) doesn't comply. And now the narrative has switched to systemic oppression. The goal posts are constantly moving and no proof given that any of these reasons exist. All we get from your side is, "If you don't agree with our narrative then you are a racist." You are the one being closed minded. You seem to think its 1865...not 2018.

 

[chiefboiler23]

Still waiting for someone to confirm the threshold of income in which your voice is no longer valid? The fact that these athletes make more in one year than most Americans make in a decade plus is a moot point, so lets just drop that part of the discussion.

 

[tjreese]

Still waiting for someone to confirm the threshold of income in which your voice is no longer valid? The fact that these athletes make more in one year than most Americans make in a decade plus is a moot point, so lets just drop that part of the discussion.

I agree...the amount of money should NOT be in play...and not sure it has ever been played. It just speaks to the greatness of this country...and appreciation of what this country offers that allows many people to make a lot of money in many ways. It is much...much more than some finite amount of money

 

[BuilderBob6]

I agree...the amount of money should NOT be in play...and not sure it has ever been played. It just speaks to the greatness of this country...and appreciation of what this country offers that allows many people to make a lot of money in many ways. It is much...much more than some finite amount of money

Money is in play. Everytime there is a reference to this situation the athletes are described as rich in one way or another. If the protest is wrong it should be so on it's own merits regardless of the color or economic status of the protesters.

The implication here imo is these black athletes make ton of money playing a game......and they should be grateful for that and shut up.......especially since many others in this country struggle economically.