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I have no dog in this fight, but that argument wasn't being made.
You're right.
Here's what he said:
" very well have made the FF if it weren’t for the Minnesota nightmare."
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I have no dog in this fight, but that argument wasn't being made.
@bonefish1 @New Pal Boiler I think the best argument for taking a 5* OAD player over a 4 year player is that when the 5* player has NBA success that only helps recruiting in the future. When you have a player like that, you now have an ambassador for your program that has made a name for themselves in the NBA. Moore has had a solid pro career, but Eric Gordon is obviously the bigger name in the NBA. I do think the players IU has gotten to the NBA has helped them in recruiting.
With that said, thankfully they haven’t found a coach able to utilize all that talent yet.
I am not saying that. I think you take whichever one is ready to commit and probably try to figure out away to take both, if Painter can get both players. My point is that it is hard to predict which will end up being more valuable over the course of his college career and if the class ends up being Furst and Kaufman, I will be ecstatic.We probably should have taken someone less capable for 4 years rather than Swanigan for 2, right? Is that how that logic works?
I am not saying that. I think you take whichever one is ready to commit and probably try to figure out away to take both, if Painter can get both players. My point is that it is hard to predict which will end up being more valuable over the course of his college career and if the class ends up being Furst and Kaufman, I will be ecstatic.
This is exactly correct. When coaches find talent that have success in the NBA, it's definitely a boost to recruiting. Cal has done that, in some suspect ways of course. Mich St (I won't name their asshole coach) has done the same thing.
If you say so.I don't buy the "if it wasn't for X" argument for teams to make a FF. There's just way too may factors and unpredictability.
Would we have had a good chance with a health Hummel? Definitely better than without him. But they don't let you hang a banner for shouldas, wouldas and couldas.
This conversation is way over simplified.
What a recruit accomplishes at the school is also important. It's not like Oklahoma suddenly took off when they had Trae Young - they were hardly a tournament team.
You also have to be at a school to make the player associated with it. These guys that Hardaway brought in at Memphis - they did nothing notable, they'll leave early and get drafted and hardly anyone will ever know they played at Memphis.
People can roll off a guy like Carsen Edwards being associated with Purdue because he did so much as a player at Purdue, and Purdue had great teams.
The programs you mention - Kentucky, Michigan State....those are part of a small group of schools that routinely have brought in that level of talent. Very few schools outside of that group have remained consistent in winning and recruiting.
As I mentioned in another thread, very few Big Ten programs have landed 5 star "one and done" players - there's been 5 in the last 4 years out of all of the 14 Big Ten programs.
In the last 8 years, I think IU's had the 2nd most 5 star players behind Michigan State. That sure as hell hasn't translated to much.
Recruiting is a 10+ layer combination of things. Some of which you can control, some of which you can't.
Oklahoma has had more than Trae Young. Blake Griffin ring a bell as a two year player that led them to an Elite 8? Buddy Held sound familiar? And they've made it further in the tournament than Purdue has in the last 50 years, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Same deal at Memphis. Runner up in 2008. Derrick Rose ring a bell as a 1 year player? Penny Hardaway has been there what, 2 years?
Players go where they get developed into NBA draftees, or where they can display they're an NBA first rounder. You can argue all you want, but that's what matters. And Painter is a fantastic coach, and I wouldn't trade him. But he's not shown he can develop players into high level draft picks. Yes, Swanigan was a first rounder, but he had physical limitations as an NBA pick. Carl Landry has probably been the most successful NBA player that Painter has coached and he was recruited by Keady as a junior college transfer. Moore was the second most successful NBA player and no one outside of Purdue knows who he is. Carsen is great, and if he has success in the NBA, he'll be a great selling point for Painter.
So is it the coach or the school's name?
You're saying 2 different things.
Oklahoma has had 3 different coaches in the span you reference.
Memphis has had 4 different coaches in the span you reference (and hasn't been to the tournament in 7 years).
But then you're pinning it on Painter....
A guy like Cuonzo has landed some big names, a couple are in the NBA...but it also hasn't resulted in good programs.
I think he is announcing a top 10, not a final 10. He will still consider schools not on his list.Another late offer by Howard. Will they be in Monday’s top 10? Seems like they wouldn’t be.
Wake me up if we make his final 1. These top 10 lists are pointless. Especially if they are still considering others as wellI think he is announcing a top 10, not a final 10. He will still consider schools not on his list.
Dude, it's both. But you can't just be a good coach and not get the players. Painter's already a good coach. He just hasn't gotten NBA caliber players. And that's what you generally need in order to make it to the Final Four and beyond.
Again, don't mistake this for being critical of Painter. I get it's not easy. But what I've not seen from Painter is using success to gain recruiting momentum. Maybe that's Purdue admin's issue and maybe it's Painter's recruiting abilities. But when you're a good coach and gain recruiting momentum, it all comes together. Coach K was always a good coach. But he started winning big when the recruits came at Duke. Duke wasn't some basketball powerhouse prior to Coach K. Same at Villanova. Jay Wright used the success as momentum for recruiting. Unfortunately, things didn't progress well for Painter after the Baby Boilers and momentum was lost.
I get your point, but somewhat surprisingly Duke was actually great in the 60s. 3 final 4s, and 1 more in 1978. 1980 Elite 8 and Coach K arrived for the 1980 season. Before my time, but I think Duke had a pretty good history prior to Coach K.
Dude, it's both. But you can't just be a good coach and not get the players. Painter's already a good coach. He just hasn't gotten NBA caliber players. And that's what you generally need in order to make it to the Final Four and beyond.
Again, don't mistake this for being critical of Painter. I get it's not easy. But what I've not seen from Painter is using success to gain recruiting momentum. Maybe that's Purdue admin's issue and maybe it's Painter's recruiting abilities. But when you're a good coach and gain recruiting momentum, it all comes together. Coach K was always a good coach. But he started winning big when the recruits came at Duke. Duke wasn't some basketball powerhouse prior to Coach K. Same at Villanova. Jay Wright used the success as momentum for recruiting. Unfortunately, things didn't progress well for Painter after the Baby Boilers and momentum was lost.
Agree, although, IMHO, I hope he redshirts in his best interest. I suspect not as it seems they are going to need him.
The one negative is that we will have 6 guards already on the roster when he gets to college.I'm beginning to think Wesley is not a consolation prize for the 2nd scholly if Ingram and Kaufman go elsewhere. If he commits, you take it and don't look back. Not great competition here, but you can't have enough athletic 6'5 guards that can dribble and shoot in today's college basketball game. Tons of upside here IMO.
I'm beginning to think Wesley is not a consolation prize for the 2nd scholly if Ingram and Kaufman go elsewhere. If he commits, you take it and don't look back. Not great competition here, but you can't have enough athletic 6'5 guards that can dribble and shoot in today's college basketball game. Tons of upside here IMO.
The one negative is that we will have 6 guards already on the roster when he gets to college.
This sounds like we are still definitely in the mix. I know IU guys really feel like he's already a silent commit. This sounds like he hasn't committed to anyone and with little Arch just now getting personally involved...seems odd.IU articles are popping up in my google feed. This was around Trey Kaufman:
https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-...an-talks-restarting-aau-games-and-recruiting/
A couple interesting questions there:
How about with Purdue?
TK: I’d say the same thing. Coach Painter has talked to me more than ever along with Coach Brantley. Especially those two schools (IU and Purdue) are wanting to know my timeline and wanting to know what I’m thinking.
With Caleb Furst committed to Purdue, does that change anything for you?
TK: I don’t think so. I think we play different as long as I can guard quicker players. Offensively obviously he is a really good player, but I think I can do things that he can’t do on the offensive side, and there are things that he can do, so it’s different.
Kaufman and Ingram... maybe a tad bit of Wesley but a long shot.Is Purdue showing any interest in Bryce Hopkins who backed out of Louisville? Wouldn’t be bad to have another BH. Is it Kaufman, Ingram, or bust and then go after the 2022 fish?
Blake Wesley, one of Purdue's few 2021 offers still available, is releasing his Top 12 this evening at 7 pm EST.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Who ready ? <a href="https://t.co/zl06Mt8HWv">pic.twitter.com/zl06Mt8HWv</a></p>— Blakewesley3 (@blakewesley0) <a href=" ">August 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I think this kid could be really good, and would love to have him, but 12 really? Why even cut it down at that point?
Whew!Well we made his top 12 along with IU, OSU, and Maryland from the conference.
Looks like.... we still have a shot!
We are first in the list ! Kudos to Indiana St. They did thump IU not long ago.Looks like.... we still have a shot!