SR year Mathias/Cline were both 12ppg
SR year Sasha was 10.4
I think Loyer has the potential to be the best of the bunch but I’m not comfortable making a bet on if he’ll ever reach 14ppg.
“Secret” Scrimmage with Cincinnati
- Thread starter Esox54547
- Start date
SR year Sasha was 10.4
I think Loyer has the potential to be the best of the bunch but I’m not comfortable making a bet on if he’ll ever reach 14ppg.
yes he will be at Purdue longer. Jaden went lottery not because of his play at Purdue, but his potential in a different game.
I’d put it this way: teams making deep NCAA runs tend to have bigs that resemble Trey and Caleb, more than Zach and Mason.
Loyer is a better all-around player than Cline was, but, not as pure a shooter...better all-around than Sasha as well. Mathias...eh, he was really underrated, in large part because he was not flashy, but, that guy was good...really good. I think Loyer's all around game is more like Mathias', but, I am not sure that he is as good defensively, or, that he has the overall offensive game that Mathias did...I think he will definitely be as good as Sasha ultimately was....probably Cline as well (although I don't know that he will ever be the shooter that Cline was), but, if he were those things and even came close to Mathias...I think everyone around and rooting for Purdue would be REALLY happy.
▶ The Boilermakers won 77-64 at Marian University, jumping out to an early lead in the first half. Purdue led by 21 with eight minutes to play.
▶ Starters: Mason Gillis, Fletcher Loyer, Braden Smith, Zach Edey and Ethan Morton. The same five began the second half.
▶ Led by Zach Edey, the Boilermakers won the rebounding battle. Edey finished with 10 and Trey Kaufman-Renn totaled eight.
▶ Edey was just 3 of 10 from the field.
▶ Caleb Furst, Brandon Newman and David Jenkins, Jr., each played at least 20 minutes off the bench. Edey played nearly 22 minutes. Furst was called for seven fouls and was 0 of 3 from the field and 0 of 1 from 3-point range.
▶ Loyer and Newman each hit multiple 3-pointers. The Boilermakers were 8 of 20 from beyond the arc.
▶ Purdue attempted 31 free throws, hitting 25. Kaufman-Renn drew eight fouls and made 7 of 9 from the line. Edey was fouled seven times. Two Cincinnati players were called for six fouls.
▶Smith, the expected starter at point guard, had 12 points, and two steals but three turnovers in nearly 20 minutes.
▶ Purdue had 12 turnovers.
▶ Smith and Loyer combined for 23 points. Newman and Kaufman-Renn combined for 29 points off the bench. Kaufman-Renn had a team-high 15 points.
▶ The Boilermakers converted 16 points off 12 Cincinnati turnovers.
▶ Cam Heide played 10 minutes. Brian Waddell saw eight minutes of action.
▶ Robert Phinisee, who attended McCutcheon and started his career at Indiana, played 27 minutes for the Bearcats. Phinisee scored one point and went 0 of 1 from 3-point range.
I really liked Dakota but he made himself(like Ray did)a good defensive player by hard work and watching tape.I also think that Loyer will be a better shooter than Cline was and also a better ft shooter by the time he leaves PU.
FT Shooter...agree (despite that being a crazy thought with Cline in the Naismith Basketball HOF for FTs), and, Loyer is a good shooter (and, hard worker from all accounts), but, not sure that he will be as good as what Cline was. Again, if he were, that would certainly bode well for Purdue.
He is not as strong as Mathias was, and, would have to really work at that end as Mathias did. Painter set a pretty high bar for Mathias coming in, and, he ultimately delivered (although it took some time).
I am anxious to see Loyer with some talent around him that will complement his game...so hard to know in HS what a guy will look like in College and with better talent.
Great understanding of the game...confident...seems to be driven...easy kid to root for...hope that it plays out well for him.
What jumps out.....
1. After the defensive struggles last year, holding a mid-high major to 64 is a nice start. I have no idea how good or bad Cinci is supposed to be though.
2. Winning when Zach and Caleb have a bad offensive game out of the gate is encouraging.
3. 2 scrimmages in and Jenkins hasn't done much of anything. He might be odd man out of rotation if Freshman keep this up.
4. After everyone was freaking out about Newman not starting, it looks like he had 14 off the bench. He's again proving his head is screwed on straight when facing adversity.
5. Hard to not be excited about TKR. Will he eventually unseat Gillis at the 4?
6. What we've been hearing in practice about Smith and Loyer translated against a mid-high major team.
Starting two freshmen guards and beating a 22-win team with two senior guards. DeJulius averaged 14.5 points last year they returned four starters. Painter started with the most experience players he could combine with his young star guards. The whole TKR should start doesn't make sense at this time imagine starting 3 freshmen regardless of their talent. My takeaway from the limited info Smith and Loyer are the real deal! In my many years of watching freshman they will have their growing pains regardless of talent. Whenever I look at the schedule for this year I cringe. The fact that players as talented as Newman, Trey Kaufman-Renn, Furst, and Jenkins are not starters is a heck of a statement in itself. I am excited to see them mature the sky is the limit for this team.
Are y0u talking about Cincinnati? They were 18-15 last year and 7-11 in conference (8th place) in the AAC, finishing ahead of only powers like East Carolina, Tulsa and South Florida. The year before they were 12-11.
This isn't the Cincinnati team it was several years ago. If Purdue couldn't beat this team we'd be in real trouble.
I’m going to refer to the other thread where people called me an idiot among other things for suggesting Edey’s role might change and despite all those preseason accolades, our offense might not revolve around him and he soon may evolve into a role much like strength and Haas before him. And some other player may emerge as our #1 scoring option.
I believe you saw today that TKR is going to force his way to become a starter and our #1 scoring option! How soon will that happen? I’m not sure. The otheR question is what position Tkr ends up starting at and who will he replace? Will Tkr replace Gillis at the 4? Or will he slide into the 3 spot? I’m unsure. But I’m certain TKR wIll become our #1 option and go to player. And that Edeys role will evolve and he will complement TKR, not the other way around.
I’m not an insIde source. I’m just speculating from what I see. And also from Painter’s history of his use of big men. Purdue’s ceNters have never been the center or focus or go to guy of Purdue’s offense.
and TKr can draw fouls and also make his free throws much like James Hardin. Tkr was one of painter’s highest ranked recruits. He’s got talent! I believe you will see it this year!
I believe you saw today that TKR is going to force his way to become a starter and our #1 scoring option! How soon will that happen? I’m not sure. The otheR question is what position Tkr ends up starting at and who will he replace? Will Tkr replace Gillis at the 4? Or will he slide into the 3 spot? I’m unsure. But I’m certain TKR wIll become our #1 option and go to player. And that Edeys role will evolve and he will complement TKR, not the other way around.
I’m not an insIde source. I’m just speculating from what I see. And also from Painter’s history of his use of big men. Purdue’s ceNters have never been the center or focus or go to guy of Purdue’s offense.
and TKr can draw fouls and also make his free throws much like James Hardin. Tkr was one of painter’s highest ranked recruits. He’s got talent! I believe you will see it this year!
You might be right, but how can TKR be any good? He red shirted last year - right?
Ended the year with an RPI ranking at 133.
- Three teams above them; Seattle, Bellarmine, and Northern Colorado.
- Three teams below them; Woffard, Nevada, and Oakland.
I find it interesting that we hear about this "secret scrimmage" from the South Bend Tribune. Tells you everything you need to know about the journalism from G&B and other Purdue media outlets.
Are you talking about the Cincinnati team from 2015? They've had 2 new coaches since Cronin left.
Seems odd to bring up a team from 2015...don't you think?
As for starting 3
Freshmen, in terms of actual practice, this is TKR’s second season playing for painter. He might not have played in any games, but he did develop his game.
as for starting 3 freShmen, I’m reminded of the Hummel/Moore/ j team when they played as freshmen. And also the soul patrol of Jordan, walls, Parker and white and then adding Joe Barry Sichting and Macy. Both of those teams were very young, inexperienced and successful. They succeeded based on talent and chemistry rather than on experience!
if you look around, you will see many of the top 10 teams starting freshmen and sophomores while the more experienced players sit and watch and help build the team’s gpa!
I’ve never been sold that experience should be given priority over talent. Just because a player hasn’t played college basketball doesn’t mean they haven’t played against college level of competition! Many of the international and AAU tournaments these players participated in were far tougher than the college teams they will face!
Freshmen, in terms of actual practice, this is TKR’s second season playing for painter. He might not have played in any games, but he did develop his game.
as for starting 3 freShmen, I’m reminded of the Hummel/Moore/ j team when they played as freshmen. And also the soul patrol of Jordan, walls, Parker and white and then adding Joe Barry Sichting and Macy. Both of those teams were very young, inexperienced and successful. They succeeded based on talent and chemistry rather than on experience!
if you look around, you will see many of the top 10 teams starting freshmen and sophomores while the more experienced players sit and watch and help build the team’s gpa!
I’ve never been sold that experience should be given priority over talent. Just because a player hasn’t played college basketball doesn’t mean they haven’t played against college level of competition! Many of the international and AAU tournaments these players participated in were far tougher than the college teams they will face!
I learned a lot more about this scrimmage from the cincy media and the cincy rivals site than what was revealed here. I also read about the fouls committed, turnovers and box score from the cincy media sites. I also read about a bunch of other scrimmages played by other teams and the media didn’t call them secret! I’m unsure why Purdue says this was secret and doesn’t provide much info.
I'm not sure why we'd be surprised about Jenkins. He was as inconsistent as a player could be at Utah. If he becomes an on and off contributor, I guess it's better than nothing. I know it's early to judge. But that was a big set of swings and misses by Painter in the off-season...
I'll have to respectfully disagree with just about everything in your post, maybe with the exception of Smith and Loyer.
1) TKR should be starting and getting major minutes. Not sure how that doesn't make sense?
2). Cincinnati was a terrible team last year. They were 7-11 in their conference and 18-15 overall.
3). Jenkins starting was a pipe dream all along. The guy was the most inconsistent player on the Utah roster last year.
Agree with you.
Painter has traditionally played his best players bout 30 minutes per game, Carsen Played 35+ his Jr year and Cline 33+ in 2019
Edwards and Biggie averaged 29 minutes over the course of their career and Mathias and Sasha averaged over 30 minutes their Jr and Sr Years,
The Williams/Edey situation was an anomaly last year. Coaches (including Painter) don't just take a position and split the minutes by two. If Edey, TKR, Newman, Loyer and Smith continue separating themselves, they will be getting 25-30 minutes per game, limiting the minutes of the remaining 6 scholarship players.
Jenkins had 6 points, 2 assists, and 0 turnovers yesterday. Don’t know why Carmin didn’t list him in his notes
Did you get a box somewhere?
From the info I have heard.
TKR 15
Newman 14
Smith 12
Loyer 11
Jenkins 6
Edey 6+ (3-10, any free throws?)
That's at least 64 of Purdue's 77
That leaves at the most 13 points spread among Furst, Gillis, Morton, Heide and Waddell.
The 13 points you’re missing
Edey 3 more finishing with 9
Gillis 6 (I think)
Waddell 3
Furst 1
I like Gillis, but furst and Kaufman are much better players. Painter is too loyal sometimes. Morton and Newman should have played more last year and should have cut hunters and sashas minutes.
Agree to a point. Sasha seemed to have a bad second half of the season and it would have been nice for Newman to take some of those minutes. Morton just reminds me of Nojel with a slightly better shot. I just don't know what he would've brought offensively.
Well, I've stated for some time my personal preference and that is two 4s around 6'9" or so that can post and play away from the basket. I've carried that thought the minute it was public that Trey was going to Purdue to join Caleb. The type of 4's I was discussing were on Michigan's team a few years ago...Wagner and Wilson.
That said...those players are more common than the 7' plus players and so the odds would be that they would be on more teams. I think you can win with players like Zach though
I remember a few years ago when the forum lost it when Phinesee went to IU. The typical angst against "Matt's" recruiting for losing one in his backyard went on for a bit. That said we have all seen Rob have some good games and log many minutes for IU. I think he logged some minutes in the scrimmage and one of those freshmen guarded him...and apparently did well doing so...
What’s impressive to me is Phinisee was always billed as a good defender at IU and was likely on one of the Purdue freshman who both went for double digits yesterday
Agree but Mason is in the mix on teams that go deep. I like Zach but he isn’t the piece that takes us the to promise land.
Since you’re ‘certain TKR wIll become our #1 option and go to player’ this season, if he isn’t, will you stop posting wild speculations?
I definitely don’t think you’re an idiot, in fact I suspect you’re a bright guy, but you do post a lot of nonsense.
I don’t know if Cinci will be any good this year, but The Athletic has them as their #3 ‘surprise team’ nationally.
Cincinnati
The Bearcats stumbled down the stretch last season but brought back several standouts (David DeJulius, Mika Adams-Woods and Jeremiah Davenport) and then added some interesting transfers (Landers Nolley, Rob Phinisee). Plus the American may be just OK after Houston, giving Wes Miller a chance to go on a run.
Morton shot 46% from three. Your ‘slightly better shot than Nojel’ comment is either misinformed or intellectually dishonest
While it is not accurate to compare him to Nojel, the idea that any case is being made that he is a genuine shooter of any sort is equally misinformed or dishonest.
I'm not sure I agree with you on Morton. He can hit the open shot and not miss an easy layup like Nojel.
Is he a pure scorer? No. Is he an offensive liability like Nojel? No.
Open layup...how about open dunk (more than once)?
And, Morton is left-handed....kidding, but, could not help it.
Didn't I who have a similar record last season and they are projected to win the big ten this season? However, I am banking on a certain team upsetting their quest! lol
