Will all of the teams we...
- Thread starter typeviic
- Start date
Other teams will definitely try to mimic what Butler did defensively. But yesterday wasn't the first time a team attempted to front the post. We've been beating defenses who tried to front with lobs and high-low action all season. What made Butler's defense successful was the increased on-ball pressure and the backside defender essentially "selling out" when he sensed a lob coming.
Of course other teams will attempt to. However, executing it is easier said than done. Some teams just aren't that great defensively. Butler has a well-coached, well-disciplined team.
I don't think Purdue did anything wrong in the lob pass when Butler was in front of the post. It's just lack of discipline of our bigs, primarily Haas, when catching the ball. How many times did the ball get ripped out of his hands? I think I counted 5 times, at minimum. If our bigs can just hang on to the ball, keep it high and tight, that won't happen, and the foul should be called if they hack the arms.
Like many have said, turnovers killed us. Can't turn the ball over against a very composed team in Butler like we did, and we have to play hard.
To conclude, both things are very, very fixable. It's not like the talent isn't there. Some things can't be fixed, but our mistakes against Butler can and I believe will be fixed.
Like many have said, turnovers killed us. Can't turn the ball over against a very composed team in Butler like we did, and we have to play hard.
To conclude, both things are very, very fixable. It's not like the talent isn't there. Some things can't be fixed, but our mistakes against Butler can and I believe will be fixed.
To add on to what you said, when we have a size advantage, don't settle for fade-aways. We did a decent job in the first 10-15 minutes - their 2 big guys had 2 and 3 fouls apiece at halftime. But we stopped attacking the rim when we had them in foul trouble. Part of that had to do with AJ sitting on the bench after picking up a silly 2nd foul himself.
As improved as Haas is, we still can't afford to have AJ sitting on the bench in foul trouble. Haas did an admirable job, but it definitely made it harder to execute our game plan.
Almost every team we have played this year used this same defense for some or all of the game. It worked this time for various reasons, and did not in the previous 11 games. The Purdue team knew how to break this defense. No adjustments were necessary. We just did not execute the game plan, we could not consistently hit the 3-pt shot that will drive teams not to cheat in the post. Purdue was not making that extra pass to the open man. We were slow getting to the lose ball. In fact, I think we lost every 50-50 ball. We turned it over because we were not mentally in that game. (No, we don't need Bryson Scott and we didn't need a radically different game plan coming out at half time)
Kudos to Butler for playing a great game, but I want to play them again, maybe in the NCAAT. We have the right game plan and the right players to have won that game. ...But hey, that's why we play the games.
yep, nothing new under the sun in that game other than execution by butler and lack of execution by PurdueAlmost every team we have played this year used this same defense for some or all of the game. It worked this time for various reasons, and did not in the previous 11 games. The Purdue team knew how to break this defense. No adjustments were necessary. We just did not execute the game plan, we could not consistently hit the 3-pt shot that will drive teams not to cheat in the post. Purdue was not making that extra pass to the open man. We were slow getting to the lose ball. In fact, I think we lost every 50-50 ball. We turned it over because we were not mentally in that game. (No, we don't need Bryson Scott and we didn't need a radically different game plan coming out at half time)
Kudos to Butler for playing a great game, but I want to play them again, maybe in the NCAAT. We have the right game plan and the right players to have won that game. ...But hey, that's why we play the games.
I actually thought the beginning of our 'disaster stretch' was when we turned the ball over on an inbounds play - AFTER a time out we burned (and needed later) because....we couldnt inbound the ball. Will somebody please post a few inbounds plays (from baseline of own hoop) to tip our coaches on what to do. I am happy with coaches and team....this is just my sore spot...
I would think Painter himself would admit he had a bad game just like the team did. The think that irked me was see him looking completely shell shocked several different times when the camera panned over to him... That kind of body language can bleed over to the players. The coach needs to be more rock solid emotionally than that. I will write it off as a bad game for coaches and players, but I really hope to not see that from our coach again.
Great post.Almost every team we have played this year used this same defense for some or all of the game. It worked this time for various reasons, and did not in the previous 11 games. The Purdue team knew how to break this defense. No adjustments were necessary. We just did not execute the game plan, we could not consistently hit the 3-pt shot that will drive teams not to cheat in the post. Purdue was not making that extra pass to the open man. We were slow getting to the lose ball. In fact, I think we lost every 50-50 ball. We turned it over because we were not mentally in that game. (No, we don't need Bryson Scott and we didn't need a radically different game plan coming out at half time)
Kudos to Butler for playing a great game, but I want to play them again, maybe in the NCAAT. We have the right game plan and the right players to have won that game. ...But hey, that's why we play the games.
I agree. This is a sore spot. If you watched the other players on the floor rather than Davis, who was holding the ball ouot of bounds, you would have seen 4 Purdue guys spectating. Nobody was moving! We havew plays, but they usually require the players to move without the ball so they get open.
Actually I am being unfair. Our bigs were moving, but the guards seemed to have feet of clay. Nobody went back into the far court. They just stood around thinking someone else would get the inbounds. Brain farts all. I am yelling at the TV saying "Move! Move! Move!". My wife said I was turning into Matt Painter.
I agree. This is a sore spot. If you watched the other players on the floor rather than Davis, who was holding the ball ouot of bounds, you would have seen 4 Purdue guys spectating. Nobody was moving! We havew plays, but they usually require the players to move without the ball so they get open.
Actually I am being unfair. Our bigs were moving, but the guards seemed to have feet of clay. Nobody went back into the far court. They just stood around thinking someone else would get the inbounds. Brain farts all. I am yelling at the TV saying "Move! Move! Move!". My wife said I was turning into Matt Painter.
Seems like everyone we play always has that last resort guy in the far backcourt just in case they can't get it in. I rarely see that for Purdue. It does get quite frustrating to watch, year after year, Purdue struggle to get the ball in bounds from the baseline.
I agree. This is a sore spot. If you watched the other players on the floor rather than Davis, who was holding the ball ouot of bounds, you would have seen 4 Purdue guys spectating. Nobody was moving! We havew plays, but they usually require the players to move without the ball so they get open.
Actually I am being unfair. Our bigs were moving, but the guards seemed to have feet of clay. Nobody went back into the far court. They just stood around thinking someone else would get the inbounds. Brain farts all. I am yelling at the TV saying "Move! Move! Move!". My wife said I was turning into Matt Painter.
One of the later inbounds plays, PJ was calling for the ball - in the corner of the court with 2 Butler guys right there. PJ should know better than to call for the ball in that situation - or maybe he just didn't realize exactly where he was.
Again, I chalk this up to mostly playing our first "big" high intensity game away from Mackey against a good team. Butler is a tough win to get unless you shoot lights out basically.
There's a lot of teachable moments on here. I don't really fault Painter's lack of adjustments - the team was executing the game plan, but just very sloppy in doing so. When you have that many turnovers, it totally disrupts you on both ends of the court.
Very random and unorthodox. When playing high low....and having the post player fronted.....has anyone ever seen the player purposefully pass the ball off the glass and directly rebound to the post player? Doesnt give a chance for weak side rotation...doesnt have the risk of 'overthrowing' where the post players momentum doesnt take him under the backboard....etc
Spot on. Boilers didn't make an adjustment and quickly kick the ball back out to the passer or the wing that the backside defender abandoned. Could even look for a cutter from the weakside as 2-3 defenders collapsed. I believe that CMP will make the adjustments and that the team will knock down the open shots to keep defenses honest in future games.
We run the same OB play under our own basket almost every time. Option #1 - a wing (usually Ray) comes off a pick at the elbow to take the pass in the corner. Option #2 a big cuts to the weak side under the basket. Sometimes this is open but we virtually never execute the pass. Option #3 our PG drifts back to center court to receive the "last resort" pass in the back court. A lot of teams know this play and simply take away the corner pass. Butler did it this year and ND did it last year in this same event. Painter does not put enough priority into being creative here. In a tight game it could be the difference.
Boilers should expect they'll see a lot of different looks, and some of the things Butler did was effective......so expect to see more helpings of that. The main point for CMP is to now limit the effectiveness of those defensive tactics going forward.....it worked in THAT game.....doesn't mean it can't be overcome in future games. That's why these types of games are ultimately good to have.....not only better competition.....but handling adversity.....and actually experiencing and seeing what other teams do in a game and reacting to it, or understanding what happens if one is slow to react. Practice certainly helps, but there's no true substitute for game experience.
By March, the players hopefully know a lot better what's coming and how to handle it......and that they've had some success doing it. Also, they should know by now that if they don't "bring it" for a full 40 minutes, they'll end up on the short end of the stick......and in March......that means your season is done.
Conversely, they should also learn or know with more games that if they DO "bring it" for a full 40 minutes, they're capable of beating anyone.
Hope we'll see some of that tonight.....some of this sounds easy or may seem easy.....but it isn't. When players lose confidence, execution suffers......you can get it back, but it's part of a process.....that's part of what CMP gets paid for.
Candidly, I don't really know what to expect tonight as far as results......looking forward to relaxing and watching the game.....would like to see a very enthusiastic crowd, and I think it will be a good game.
By March, the players hopefully know a lot better what's coming and how to handle it......and that they've had some success doing it. Also, they should know by now that if they don't "bring it" for a full 40 minutes, they'll end up on the short end of the stick......and in March......that means your season is done.
Conversely, they should also learn or know with more games that if they DO "bring it" for a full 40 minutes, they're capable of beating anyone.
Hope we'll see some of that tonight.....some of this sounds easy or may seem easy.....but it isn't. When players lose confidence, execution suffers......you can get it back, but it's part of a process.....that's part of what CMP gets paid for.
Candidly, I don't really know what to expect tonight as far as results......looking forward to relaxing and watching the game.....would like to see a very enthusiastic crowd, and I think it will be a good game.
I wish the students were there, but it is sold out and I would think after Butler both the crowd and the players should be fired up. I'm hoping for a quick start and keep the crowd into it, no flat start with everyone sitting on their hands. I have a group of 5 that are driving down and we are looking for a great game!!
Hey great to hear DryFly....have a great time but please don't get kicked out. I'll have my popcorn ready for the BTN telecast.
It's not as easy as just fronting the post, it's an entire defensive scheme that involves rotations and identifying shooters etc. Butler ran it great, but that doesn't mean it's the auto win condition for other teams that play us. It's pretty easily countered with ball movement as well that we just didn't do on Saturday. If we play good inside out basketball we can punish those rotations by moving it around to an open shooter.
fronting the post should equal an alleyoop dunk or layup for us. We are just too stupid to do it. We land and bring the ball down and let the guards poke it away. Hopefully adjustments will be made.
You would not look a little shell shocked if your players were playing the way they were? Maybe he thought this team would not go where they went and was shocked. He continued to coach from what I saw.
This starts with an aggressive drive from a wing player (and that did not happen) right at the fronting defender once he commits to stopping the drive it's a dunk by the big or the wing is fouled going hard to the hoop.
Hence the multiple TO's during stretches, which I thought were good at the time. The downside was Purdue ended up being out of them down the stretch due to the in-bounding difficulties.
Just a tough day all around.
