Why are we "Missing the Talent"

[RFSNES]

Here we are again, great talent on hand with no future in sight. A good class 1 out of 4 years is not going to build a Power, spurts, but no Power, and we are Happy. Would you be happy if you had a tank of gas today, but nothing for the next 4 weeks. Is that where we are? I am sick and tired of hearing who we have offered, we have a better chance of not offering and getting a recruit

Maybe we need a "Brothel" in town
Maybe we need "Phantom" Study Programs
Maybe we need a "1 Year Degree"
Maybe we need 13 "Fifth year Seniors"
Maybe we need to become a "Developmental" Team (3 yr. then Play)

This is just to name a few "Maybe's"

We are now down to Tier 2, what is next D-2/D-3 to recruit against.

Kool-Aid Drinkers and Spinmiesters, please enlighten me.

So far , ANOTHER 0'FER RECRUITING SEASON.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

 

[BoilerBiker]

Some from both sides of the board lately have me missing peegs being on rivals.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Combo of needing to win in March and Painter's lack of ability to sell.

 

[Beeazlebub]

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Here we are again, great talent on hand with no future in sight. A good class 1 out of 4 years is not going to build a Power, spurts, but no Power, and we are Happy. Would you be happy if you had a tank of gas today, but nothing for the next 4 weeks. Is that where we are? I am sick and tired of hearing who we have offered, we have a better chance of not offering and getting a recruit

Maybe we need a "Brothel" in town
Maybe we need "Phantom" Study Programs
Maybe we need a "1 Year Degree"
Maybe we need 13 "Fifth year Seniors"
Maybe we need to become a "Developmental" Team (3 yr. then Play)

This is just to name a few "Maybe's"

We are now down to Tier 2, what is next D-2/D-3 to recruit against.

Kool-Aid Drinkers and Spinmiesters, please enlighten me.

So far , ANOTHER 0'FER RECRUITING SEASON.

I will, respectfully, give a response to your post.

I will never support a program, Purdue included, if news came out that it was doing things such as Louisville, North Carolina, Kentucky, Memphis, Syracuse. I would gladly turn my back on the program and find another upstanding program to support as much as I could. What Louisville allowed to happen (and let's be honest, Pitino knew what was going on), is absolutely disgraceful. What UNC did with their academics, at all levels of both the academic and athletic side, should have warranted a death penalty similar to SMU. When athletics become bigger than the academic institutions that are supporting them, there is a social and cultural problem that needs to be faced. That is one that I will never waver from and if that means Purdue isn't winning national championships and not getting to a Final Four in my lifetime, then so be it. I stand with my values that although winning is great, it isn't the only thing...because it isn't professional sports. Be pissed if you are a Browns fan and your team sucks every year...they are in the business of winning. As for Purdue and college sports, they are in the business of giving young men and women the opportunity to obtain a higher education (many of which would not have that opportunity in the first place) and grow to become members of our society that value higher education. Does that always work out? No, but there are many more instances of men and women obtaining a degree they would likely never had a chance to because of the athletics of a university.

Let me add this: That doesn't mean I don't want Purdue to win and to get recruits like JJJ and so forth. It simply means, there are more important things for me to whine about other than if an 18 year old chose Purdue or not.

 

[BoiledSteel]

Here we are again, great talent on hand with no future in sight. A good class 1 out of 4 years is not going to build a Power, spurts, but no Power, and we are Happy. Would you be happy if you had a tank of gas today, but nothing for the next 4 weeks. Is that where we are? I am sick and tired of hearing who we have offered, we have a better chance of not offering and getting a recruit

Maybe we need a "Brothel" in town
Maybe we need "Phantom" Study Programs
Maybe we need a "1 Year Degree"
Maybe we need 13 "Fifth year Seniors"
Maybe we need to become a "Developmental" Team (3 yr. then Play)

This is just to name a few "Maybe's"

We are now down to Tier 2, what is next D-2/D-3 to recruit against.

Kool-Aid Drinkers and Spinmiesters, please enlighten me.

So far , ANOTHER 0'FER RECRUITING SEASON.

 

[RFSNES]

Combo of needing to win in March and Painter's lack of ability to sell.

You are on Target

 

[RFSNES]

I will, respectfully, give a response to your post.

I will never support a program, Purdue included, if news came out that it was doing things such as Louisville, North Carolina, Kentucky, Memphis, Syracuse. I would gladly turn my back on the program and find another upstanding program to support as much as I could. What Louisville allowed to happen (and let's be honest, Pitino knew what was going on), is absolutely disgraceful. What UNC did with their academics, at all levels of both the academic and athletic side, should have warranted a death penalty similar to SMU. When athletics become bigger than the academic institutions that are supporting them, there is a social and cultural problem that needs to be faced. That is one that I will never waver from and if that means Purdue isn't winning national championships and not getting to a Final Four in my lifetime, then so be it. I stand with my values that although winning is great, it isn't the only thing...because it isn't professional sports. Be pissed if you are a Browns fan and your team sucks every year...they are in the business of winning. As for Purdue and college sports, they are in the business of giving young men and women the opportunity to obtain a higher education (many of which would not have that opportunity in the first place) and grow to become members of our society that value higher education. Does that always work out? No, but there are many more instances of men and women obtaining a degree they would likely never had a chance to because of the athletics of a university.

Let me add this: That doesn't mean I don't want Purdue to win and to get recruits like JJJ and so forth. It simply means, there are more important things for me to whine about other than if an 18 year old chose Purdue or not.

I agree 100%, this was my sarcastic humor in play.
Painter is not shooting for the right players to go to Purdue....we are in the same boat as Vandy and NW where Academics is high and we want the 4 year students that play basketball. Sometimes Painter reaches for pie in the sky, instead of targeting the "student" that can play Ball. By the time we show interest they are off the chart and attending other schools of such nature. Painter needs to target properly out of the gate.

 

[Inspector100]

I will, respectfully, give a response to your post.

I will never support a program, Purdue included, if news came out that it was doing things such as Louisville, North Carolina, Kentucky, Memphis, Syracuse. I would gladly turn my back on the program and find another upstanding program to support as much as I could. What Louisville allowed to happen (and let's be honest, Pitino knew what was going on), is absolutely disgraceful. What UNC did with their academics, at all levels of both the academic and athletic side, should have warranted a death penalty similar to SMU. When athletics become bigger than the academic institutions that are supporting them, there is a social and cultural problem that needs to be faced. That is one that I will never waver from and if that means Purdue isn't winning national championships and not getting to a Final Four in my lifetime, then so be it. I stand with my values that although winning is great, it isn't the only thing...because it isn't professional sports. Be pissed if you are a Browns fan and your team sucks every year...they are in the business of winning. As for Purdue and college sports, they are in the business of giving young men and women the opportunity to obtain a higher education (many of which would not have that opportunity in the first place) and grow to become members of our society that value higher education. Does that always work out? No, but there are many more instances of men and women obtaining a degree they would likely never had a chance to because of the athletics of a university.

Let me add this: That doesn't mean I don't want Purdue to win and to get recruits like JJJ and so forth. It simply means, there are more important things for me to whine about other than if an 18 year old chose Purdue or not.

I agree with your entire post and would like to add Penn State to your list.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I will over-simplify this ... imagine you are the father of a basketball player who is rated 4.3 stars, has travelled all over the country since he was 13 to play AAU, has players on his AAU team who are going to KY or Duke or wherever, and your son has narrowed his list to four schools. They are Purdue, MSU, Wisconsin, and Xavier. You did not attend college, you have lived in Indiana all your life, and your son likes the Wisconsin coach the best, but not a lot more. Nothing improper has occurred during the recruiting and all four are sure he will start his freshman year. Where do you recommend he go?

 

[PurdueCF12]

Enjoy the season we are going to have. Worry about recruiting when it actually matters.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I will over-simplify this ... imagine you are the father of a basketball player who is rated 4.3 stars, has travelled all over the country since he was 13 to play AAU, has players on his AAU team who are going to KY or Duke or wherever, and your son has narrowed his list to four schools. They are Purdue, MSU, Wisconsin, and Xavier. You did not attend college, you have lived in Indiana all your life, and your son likes the Wisconsin coach the best, but not a lot more. Nothing improper has occurred during the recruiting and all four are sure he will start his freshman year. Where do you recommend he go?

I immediately take MSU off the table with the known issues between teammates, the apparent lack of control at times, and the news of former players immediately after leaving school. I would support the choice of Whisky as long as it is in line with his academic aspirations as well. Only a few make it to NBA and a few others over seas...even those will eventually need an education to fall back on.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

I don't get some people, Purdue didn't get a few players they offered and it's like they are the only good players out there. So much changes for kids from high school to college, you can't always predict how good they will be in college. Factors as attitude, body maturity, work ethic, personal problems, actual skill ceiling all come into play. There are alot of really good players not committed yet, with Purdue offers. Relax and welcome the players who want to be Boilers

 

[Schnelk]

It's only going to get worse (on here) when our neighbors sign some highly touted recruits.

 

[Dakota Girl]

I will, respectfully, give a response to your post.

I will never support a program, Purdue included, if news came out that it was doing things such as Louisville, North Carolina, Kentucky, Memphis, Syracuse. I would gladly turn my back on the program and find another upstanding program to support as much as I could. What Louisville allowed to happen (and let's be honest, Pitino knew what was going on), is absolutely disgraceful. What UNC did with their academics, at all levels of both the academic and athletic side, should have warranted a death penalty similar to SMU. When athletics become bigger than the academic institutions that are supporting them, there is a social and cultural problem that needs to be faced. That is one that I will never waver from and if that means Purdue isn't winning national championships and not getting to a Final Four in my lifetime, then so be it. I stand with my values that although winning is great, it isn't the only thing...because it isn't professional sports. Be pissed if you are a Browns fan and your team sucks every year...they are in the business of winning. As for Purdue and college sports, they are in the business of giving young men and women the opportunity to obtain a higher education (many of which would not have that opportunity in the first place) and grow to become members of our society that value higher education. Does that always work out? No, but there are many more instances of men and women obtaining a degree they would likely never had a chance to because of the athletics of a university.

Let me add this: That doesn't mean I don't want Purdue to win and to get recruits like JJJ and so forth. It simply means, there are more important things for me to whine about other than if an 18 year old chose Purdue or not.

Perfectly stated. This why I am not alarmed by not getting the 5 star. We rarely do. Is that settling for the status-quo? If a persons only criteria for success is winning a title than they probably see it as settling or kool aide drinking. So be it. I'll take respect in my school's ethics over what seems to go with the "success" of most top programs. That being said, from what I know, Duke is clean. I would be very happy to have that but that is rare.

 

[Dakota Girl]

I will over-simplify this ... imagine you are the father of a basketball player who is rated 4.3 stars, has travelled all over the country since he was 13 to play AAU, has players on his AAU team who are going to KY or Duke or wherever, and your son has narrowed his list to four schools. They are Purdue, MSU, Wisconsin, and Xavier. You did not attend college, you have lived in Indiana all your life, and your son likes the Wisconsin coach the best, but not a lot more. Nothing improper has occurred during the recruiting and all four are sure he will start his freshman year. Where do you recommend he go?

So his options are Purdue, Wisky, MSU, and X.
School quality: Purdue and Wisky (I don't know X so sorry if I slighted them)
Basketball success likelihood: MSU
My personal favorite: irrelavent
He likes Wisky...go to Wisky. I'll stock up on Badger gear and root for Purdue against everyone else.

 

[Dryfly88]

I will over-simplify this ... imagine you are the father of a basketball player who is rated 4.3 stars, has travelled all over the country since he was 13 to play AAU, has players on his AAU team who are going to KY or Duke or wherever, and your son has narrowed his list to four schools. They are Purdue, MSU, Wisconsin, and Xavier. You did not attend college, you have lived in Indiana all your life, and your son likes the Wisconsin coach the best, but not a lot more. Nothing improper has occurred during the recruiting and all four are sure he will start his freshman year. Where do you recommend he go?

Ok, I'll play. In this scenario I'm most likely an IU fan (lived in Indiana my whole life, didn't go to college) so I will tell my son anywhere but Purdue.

Seriously, I would say go to Wisconsin as long as they offer what you want to study.

 

[BoilerBiker]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...-state-spartans-tom-izzo-recruiting/90450328/

How Tom Izzo changed approach to attract big stars to MSU

 

[Dryfly88]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...-state-spartans-tom-izzo-recruiting/90450328/

How Tom Izzo changed approach to attract big stars to MSU

I'm sorry, I read it twice and I still don't understand what he changed?? He recruits kids that "want to come to MSU" wow, that's a real unique approach. He goes after all the big names, whiffs on some, gets some others. Again, not very unique.

He's gone to 7 final fours and won a championship. That is his recruiting "secret". I can't stand the guy. I think he's as phony as a 3 dollar bill but he wins and that is what sells. There is no culture change, he recruits every top player regardless of their character (evidence of the many issues during their time there and after leaving). Bottom line is he wins and will continue to win as long as he keeps getting top talent.

The article was written by the Detroit newspaper, it was a fluff piece written to trumpet another top recruit signing with MSU. No shot at you Boilerbiker, just giving my take on the article and Izzo in general.

 

[Dan'l Boone]

I don't get some people, Purdue didn't get a few players they offered and it's like they are the only good players out there. So much changes for kids from high school to college, you can't always predict how good they will be in college. Factors as attitude, body maturity, work ethic, personal problems, actual skill ceiling all come into play. There are alot of really good players not committed yet, with Purdue offers. Relax and welcome the players who want to be Boilers

If you know anything about recruiting, you know coaches from other schools are touting the fact Purdue has only two seniors (a walk on and a 5th year senior). Those coaches will preach that Haas, Edwards, and even Swanigan will be returning for their senior year. Convincing top HS players they will be getting enough playing time would seem to be CMP's biggest task, not all this other BS.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I would support the choice of Whisky as long as it is in line with his academic aspirations as well. Only a few make it to NBA and a few others over seas...even those will eventually need an education to fall back on.

So his options are Purdue, Wisky, MSU, and X.
School quality: Purdue and Wisky (I don't know X so sorry if I slighted them)

Seriously, I would say go to Wisconsin as long as they offer what you want to study.

I find it significant that all three who played mentioned academics - for very logical and fatherly reasons. Please remember that this player is a 4.3 star who has travelled all over the country with players going to Duke/NC/Kansas. Do you really believe that the Dad who supported and nurtured this is going to be thinking academics? We all know guys with sons like this ... there are a few great ones, but .... We each may be the great Dad, but the odds in this situation are that he is FAR more into basketball and the pros than academics.

 

[BoilerBiker]

I'm sorry, I read it twice and I still don't understand what he changed?? He recruits kids that "want to come to MSU" wow, that's a real unique approach. He goes after all the big names, whiffs on some, gets some others. Again, not very unique.

He's gone to 7 final fours and won a championship. That is his recruiting "secret". I can't stand the guy. I think he's as phony as a 3 dollar bill but he wins and that is what sells. There is no culture change, he recruits every top player regardless of their character (evidence of the many issues during their time there and after leaving). Bottom line is he wins and will continue to win as long as he keeps getting top talent.

The article was written by the Detroit newspaper, it was a fluff piece written to trumpet another top recruit signing with MSU. No shot at you Boilerbiker, just giving my take on the article and Izzo in general.

Sure.
All these new recruits say similar things about the culture, family, etc. despite any of the bad apples that have been there.

Some of our fan views vs those of the recruit (and their family) is apparently far different

 

[*Shockerrr*]

If you know anything about recruiting, you know coaches from other schools are touting the fact Purdue has only two seniors (a walk on and a 5th year senior). Those coaches will preach that Haas, Edwards, and even Swanigan will be returning for their senior year. Convincing top HS players they will be getting enough playing time would seem to be CMP's biggest task, not all this other BS.

Seems like recruits don't care about the current team roster as much now a days. Why do you think kids are transferring at a going rate??

 

[RFSNES]

I don't get some people, Purdue didn't get a few players they offered and it's like they are the only good players out there. So much changes for kids from high school to college, you can't always predict how good they will be in college. Factors as attitude, body maturity, work ethic, personal problems, actual skill ceiling all come into play. There are alot of really good players not committed yet, with Purdue offers. Relax and welcome the players who want to be Boilers

I would love to welcome them, So far no one wants to be a future Boiler

 

[Dryfly88]

Sure.
All these new recruits say similar things about the culture, family, etc. despite any of the bad apples that have been there.

Some of our fan views vs those of the recruit (and their family) is apparently far different

Oh I have no doubt he creates a "family" atmosphere there and the recruits feel wanted and welcome there. He is a great salesman. I would call him more of a con man, but that doesn't take away the fact that he is very effective in making kids feel good about going there.

I stated very early on that I didn't have a good feeling when it looked like it was down to us and MSU for JJJ. I feel the same about Eastern and X. If MSU is serious about getting them I don't like our chances for either of them.

 

[Dakota Girl]

I find it significant that all three who played mentioned academics - for very logical and fatherly reasons. Please remember that this player is a 4.3 star who has travelled all over the country with players going to Duke/NC/Kansas. Do you really believe that the Dad who supported and nurtured this is going to be thinking academics? We all know guys with sons like this ... there are a few great ones, but .... We each may be the great Dad, but the odds in this situation are that he is FAR more into basketball and the pros than academics.

You are probably right. I was definitely answering from my own point of view. The parent you described is going to push for one of two options. His favorite or MSU so his boy has the best shot at a FF. It wouldn't even occur to him that the number of D1 NCAA players to go pro is infinitesimal making the degree quality imperative for his sons future.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I find it significant that all three who played mentioned academics - for very logical and fatherly reasons. Please remember that this player is a 4.3 star who has travelled all over the country with players going to Duke/NC/Kansas. Do you really believe that the Dad who supported and nurtured this is going to be thinking academics? We all know guys with sons like this ... there are a few great ones, but .... We each may be the great Dad, but the odds in this situation are that he is FAR more into basketball and the pros than academics.

I guess that if it was still me in that situation and I had paid the way for my kid to travel like that, I would still make the same recommendation. You did state if I was the father in your question, but as you said...much more likely that the father is more like the one you believe.

 

[Dryfly88]

I find it significant that all three who played mentioned academics - for very logical and fatherly reasons. Please remember that this player is a 4.3 star who has travelled all over the country with players going to Duke/NC/Kansas. Do you really believe that the Dad who supported and nurtured this is going to be thinking academics? We all know guys with sons like this ... there are a few great ones, but .... We each may be the great Dad, but the odds in this situation are that he is FAR more into basketball and the pros than academics.

I too was answering as if I was the dad in this scenario. The NBA is going to "find" you no matter where you play and especially with the schools we were given a choice of (all power 5 schools).

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I think Izzo does a great job of making recruits feel good about going there and he has the resume to make it very attractive. Can't stand the guy, but he is very good at what he does.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

If you know anything about recruiting, you know coaches from other schools are touting the fact Purdue has only two seniors (a walk on and a 5th year senior). Those coaches will preach that Haas, Edwards, and even Swanigan will be returning for their senior year. Convincing top HS players they will be getting enough playing time would seem to be CMP's biggest task, not all this other BS.

I hope they're right!!

 

[Travisty13]

I too was answering as if I was the dad in this scenario. The NBA is going to "find" you no matter where you play and especially with the schools we were given a choice of (all power 5 schools).

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I think Izzo does a great job of making recruits feel good about going there and he has the resume to make it very attractive. Can't stand the guy, but he is very good at what he does.

This. The NBA will find you. University of Washington was a 19-15 team last year. Play most their games late. Yet had 2 freshman taken in the 1st round of the NBA draft. Kids weren't 5* recruits either (Murray was #48, Chriss was #60). But the NBA found them. Winning in college means little when it comes to the NBA. Talent and potential are everything. So I'd advice my son to go wherever he can get on the court and learn to play ball better.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

This. The NBA will find you. University of Washington was a 19-15 team last year. Play most their games late. Yet had 2 freshman taken in the 1st round of the NBA draft. Kids weren't 5* recruits either (Murray was #48, Chriss was #60). But the NBA found them. Winning in college means little when it comes to the NBA. Talent and potential are everything. So I'd advice my son to go wherever he can get on the court and learn to play ball better.

I think if Haas and Vince can develop in to NBA players, CMP can make a great case to those recruits in the #30-#100 range that he can get them to the NBA. I don't think CMP will be pulling in many top #20 guys, but if he can get 2-4 top 100 guys every year and with his ability to develop, that would go a long way to having the program take the next step. Purdue is currently around that area but if CMP can slowly continue moving up the rankings over the next 2-4 years, Purdue can start to build a March winner.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I agree 100%, this was my sarcastic humor in play.
Painter is not shooting for the right players to go to Purdue....we are in the same boat as Vandy and NW where Academics is high and we want the 4 year students that play basketball. Sometimes Painter reaches for pie in the sky, instead of targeting the "student" that can play Ball. By the time we show interest they are off the chart and attending other schools of such nature. Painter needs to target properly out of the gate.

Wisconsin, Illinois and Michigan are all good academic schools as well, and they do fine. The academic excuse is a shallow one.

 

[mathboy]

Wisconsin, Illinois and Michigan are all good academic schools as well, and they do fine. The academic excuse is a shallow one.

While you are correct about the schools in general, you are glossing over important differences between the schools and what they require of their graduates. I don't know about Whisky and Ill, but UM has a "General Studies" major that Purdue does not. You need to declare a major at Purdue, and then must take upper level courses in that major. it makes some difference in how much effort you need to put into academics as an individual, and has nothing to do with the overall academic reputation of the school.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

While you are correct about the schools in general, you are glossing over important differences between the schools and what they require of their graduates. I don't know about Whisky and Ill, but UM has a "General Studies" major that Purdue does not. You need to declare a major at Purdue, and then must take upper level courses in that major. it makes some difference in how much effort you need to put into academics as an individual, and has nothing to do with the overall academic reputation of the school.

Come on now. We have liberal arts and OLS majors now. Academics is NOT an excuse.

 

[BoiledSteel]

Come on now. We have liberal arts and OLS majors now. Academics is NOT an excuse.

It most certainly is an impact.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

It most certainly is an impact.

No more an impact than it is at IU, UM, WI, Illinois, etc etc...

 

[cgnops]

How can anyone look at the tourney success or what Draymond Green developed into at MSU and be surprised when players want to go there? I would think a speaker phone call with Draymond and current players would be very convincing. Gotta keep those expectations realistic when we are competing with the blueblood programs.

 

[BoilerDeac]

While you are correct about the schools in general, you are glossing over important differences between the schools and what they require of their graduates. I don't know about Whisky and Ill, but UM has a "General Studies" major that Purdue does not. You need to declare a major at Purdue, and then must take upper level courses in that major. it makes some difference in how much effort you need to put into academics as an individual, and has nothing to do with the overall academic reputation of the school.

Good point. Still not entirely sure if it significantly impacts recruiting, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Good point. Still not entirely sure if it significantly impacts recruiting, but maybe I'm wrong.

Heller has posted about this several times. I'm not sure how you quantify the impact on recruiting....I tend to think it could be a factor in some cases, but I don't think it's a major impact overall either......but JMO.