I totally get that, but I think most people are giving CS this same free pass........earn it and I have no problem. And goes for everyone!
Who Plays and Who Sits?
- Thread starter boilerbaaller
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I totally get that, but I think most people are giving CS this same free pass........earn it and I have no problem. And goes for everyone!
I don't see it as him moving ahead of others. I think its about lineups. He's a natural 4 and Edwards is a natural 3. This lets them both play their natural positions. Taylor backs up Biggie, and Edwards starts at 3 with Smotherman backing him up.
In my opinion Taylor most definitely will play. Swanigan's weakness right now is going to be conditioning and defense, he's got rebounding down, but that's not all that defense is. And it's it's one thing that Taylor is it's a long lengthy defender and should be a good shot blocker. Purdue has as much learning of the system on the defensive end as it will on the offensive end and we'll more than likely see plenty of growning pains from all the young players still. We know that he doesn't think that Haas and Hammons can be on the floor at the same time, so that still leaves a lot of minutes available at the 4 for Taylor, Vince to rotate over and even Davis if we go 4 guard. People are acting like there is no leeway here and Swanigan is going to get 40 minutes a game. Ray only averaged 31 last year and I but he leads the team again this year.
I almost like the idea of Stephens starting over Edwards. Then having Edwards come in with the second unit at the 4 with PJ and Mathias and maybe Smotherman and and just get up and down the court and have pure energy. Where the starters would be more methodical and work for a good shot, the second unit can be more run and gun. The real question might be who plays the last 5 minutes of a close game, that is more important than who starts. granted a lot of who plays the wings will rely on who doesn't turn the ball over and who can make 3 pointers. Slashing to the basket will not be as important, more important will be the ability to pass into the post, or be able to do a drop off pass when driving.
The only problem with that is that Haas won't be able to run and gun with them.
Just a quick idea that popped in my head, Purdue goes Spurs style. Guys take nights off to stay fresh throughout the season.
lol. Except we play no more than 2 games a week while NBA teams have a grind of 3-4 games a week with back-to-backs... Plus it's an 82 game season
Davis & Mathias are probably the two most adaptable/flexible players on this team. I see little weakness in Davis's game. He could probably do an even greater job of guarding conference 2's this season, than he did 3's last season, & that's pretty hard to top. Davis would be most effective/max his potential at the 2 spot this season, given the new/great influx on talent on this season's team, that leaves Vince Edwards at the 3 position. I trust Coach Painter will work it out properly, however he sees fit.
Go Boilers!!!
The depth is a good problem to have. I am sure coach is clear to all about needing to earn PT by working hard and listening/learning/applying in practice. And by not fighting the coach as Bryson was said to do. And by performing in games in addition to practice as the season progresses.
I would guess CMP did not promise CS a starting role as a freshman, but rather said it was there for him to earn. I hope so.
I am reading predictions about red shirting Cline, and I am not sure about that. Both Stephens and Mathias were fairly streaky shooters last season, and ultimately Dakota started more because he got his D up to snuff and demonstrated some skills & BBIQ that Stephens did not. If Cline can also develop his D AND be a consistent rather than streaky shooter, he could be the one we need at the 2 this year to make a deep tourney run.
My prediction:
C: AJ & Isaac
PF: CS, Edwards,Taylor
SF: Davis, Edwards, Basil
SG: Mathias, Stephens, & Cline
PG: Whoever wins minutes among PJ, Hill, Weatherford, Mathias, Edwards, & Davis. If Mathias, Edwards, or Davis can cover PG effectively, that would give Edwards a clear starting position & generally relieve some of the contention at the forward and SG positions. That would give us the best chance of having the best 5 players on the floor IMO. In that case, I could definitely see GW red shirting.
I would guess CMP did not promise CS a starting role as a freshman, but rather said it was there for him to earn. I hope so.
I am reading predictions about red shirting Cline, and I am not sure about that. Both Stephens and Mathias were fairly streaky shooters last season, and ultimately Dakota started more because he got his D up to snuff and demonstrated some skills & BBIQ that Stephens did not. If Cline can also develop his D AND be a consistent rather than streaky shooter, he could be the one we need at the 2 this year to make a deep tourney run.
My prediction:
C: AJ & Isaac
PF: CS, Edwards,Taylor
SF: Davis, Edwards, Basil
SG: Mathias, Stephens, & Cline
PG: Whoever wins minutes among PJ, Hill, Weatherford, Mathias, Edwards, & Davis. If Mathias, Edwards, or Davis can cover PG effectively, that would give Edwards a clear starting position & generally relieve some of the contention at the forward and SG positions. That would give us the best chance of having the best 5 players on the floor IMO. In that case, I could definitely see GW red shirting.
Obviously in the preseason and non conference season Painter will experiment with various lineups. So would not suprise me if they started out a lil slow after all the expectations.
Good point and I would expect that for a while. We might even have some close games while this is all figured out.
5-1. I know it's a long shot, but realistically, you have to put the best 5 on the court, right? How do you leave either RayDay or Edwards out of the starting 5, without having at least one pure shooter? The only other option I can think of is if Ray/Day improves his 3pt percentage, Cuanzo Martin style, and plays the 2 with Edwards at the 3. Then I'd like Grant at PG if he plays that disruptive defense he's known to play. Otherwise, we could have a Syracuse starting 5 back with Michael Carter-Williams style. Not sure if VE can handle the ball that good, or is quick enough, but it would be interesting to try. He'd be the next Penny Hardaway.
Hammons
Swanigan
RayDay
Stephens-subject to change if he jacks up those ridiculous 3s again all game.
Edwards
Hammons
Swanigan
RayDay
Stephens-subject to change if he jacks up those ridiculous 3s again all game.
Edwards
He's a redshirt freshman. I'm not down on him, I just don't see it on the current squad. He'd have to be way under-rated, or Swanigan has to be way over-rated to get substantial playing time, IMO. Hey, if he's better than Swanigan, that bodes pretty well for Purdue, so I wouldn't be mad at that!
That is a good bet, Davis probably will & should lead the team in minutes again this year. Those minutes should be a lot more stress free than last season, fortunately. Davis will have less trouble than some think, adapting to the 2 position on this team, with it's current construction, talent pool, coaching prowess & depth at every position, which it didn't have last season.
Should be fun to watch, for staff, fans & players. Davis is a good 1 on 1 player, & will be able to post up & muscle many good opposition 2 guards in this conference. He just needs to work on his ball handling, 3 pt. shooting, & ability to help break opposition full court presses, because he/Purdue will be tested at the guard position early & often this season, & it's ability to break/make opponents suffer, when full court pressing us. Davis gives us options at the 2 spot we didn't have last year, & opposing defenses will find that out the hard/painfull way. Davis is still our best all around player, offense, defense, transition & otherwise. He'll be fine at the 2 position, & give this team it's best chance to win night after night, all season long.
Go Boilers!!!
Swanigan was a very good rebounder against high school talent that he had size advantage over. CS will need to use his body in a Barkley like manner in order to maintain position and get more than his fair share of boards against someone built like Taylor. I think he can get there, but it will take time in the gym (this summer with the team!) and in game to build that skill.
I hope there are 9 guys (MAX) in the rotation. We found out last year that trying to fit too many guys in the rotation didn't work, and Painter even admitted that near end of the year. IMO, the 9 best players play:
AJ
Swanigan
Edwards
Davis
Mathias
Stephens
Haas
Smotherman
Hill/Thompson
AJ
Swanigan
Edwards
Davis
Mathias
Stephens
Haas
Smotherman
Hill/Thompson
I think Painter really learned a lesson last season in his use of rotations and subbing patterns. I am guessing 2-3 guys will see max minutes throughout the year and another 4-5 will see a good amount of minutes as well with 2-3 seeing minimal minutes.
Max Minutes: 30+ per game average
Hammons
Davis
Swanigan
Rotation Minute: 12-29 per game average
Edwards
Haas
Mathias
Hill
Thompson
Stephens
Minimal Minutes: 2-11 per game average
Cline
Weatherford
Smotherman
Taylor
This would obviously change on a nightly basis as I believe Painter will go with the hot hand on the wing for the night between Edwards, Mathias, Stephens, and possibly Cline as well. At the point, a rotation of Hill and Thompson would serve well along with Weatherford gaining some good experience in later points in games or serving as another body against teams with high quality guard play (IU). I am going to go with this guess for the starting 5 and then the rotation after that:
Guard: Hill
Guard: Davis
Guard: Edwards
PF: Swanigan
C: Hammons
This is largely predicated on Hill and Davis being serviceable outside threats. Davis seemed to take another step forward in his outside shooting last year and with his work ethic, why couldn't we expect the same? Hill is an anomaly and I am simply assuming he should be a serviceable threat from outside. Edwards also showed flashes as a freshman of being able to hit from outside, but that lineup would be a killer rebounding 5 as Davis and Edwards rebound about as well as any Guard/small forwards in the B1G along with Swanigan being tabbed an elite type of rebounder and Hammons being highly effective on the low post as a defender. That lineup would be scary to face from an offensive standpoint and gives the Boilers just enough offensive ability to start the games effectively. Once that defensive intensity and lead is established, a more offensive unit can be subbed in as such:
Guard: Hill/Thompson
Guard: Mathias
Guard: Stephens/Cline
Forward: Edwards/Smotherman
Center:Haas/Hammons
And that big x-factor I believe in all of this is Davis and his continued improvement as a player. He mention his want to become a better all around player and one that CAN play the point. If that is the case and Davis improves enough that he can 'share' that responsibility with players like Mathias, Edwards, and even Cline, it would open up the offensive side of the ball immensely:
Guard: Davis
Guard: Mathias/Stephens/Stephens
Guard: Edwards/Mathias
PF: Swanigan
C: Hammons
That is a very intriguing lineup as it potentially allows Purdue's two best long range shooters (from the three of Mathias, Stephens, and Cline) to operate on the floor at the same time if Edwards isn't in the game and not lose much on the rebounding portion of the game both offensively and defensively.
The aspect I am looking forward to is if Coach Painter potentially sold Swanigan on the idea of playing as a 'stretch 5' ala Frank Kaminsky at Whisky. If Swanigan can buy in to that at small amounts of time during the season and the lineup I would really be interested in seeing play together would be this one:
Guard: Davis
Guard: Stephens
Guard: Mathias
Forward: Edwards
'Center': Swanigan
You are placing the best off the dribble player with the three best outside shooters along with a big man who can effectively use his athleticism and also step away from the hoop. It would be intriguing.
Sorry to ramble on but it's hard to not get excited about the endless amounts of potential we as fans perceive this team to have. I am sure a much more savvy and knowledgeable coaching staff is going to have a lot of fun and long nights game planning coming up!
Max Minutes: 30+ per game average
Hammons
Davis
Swanigan
Rotation Minute: 12-29 per game average
Edwards
Haas
Mathias
Hill
Thompson
Stephens
Minimal Minutes: 2-11 per game average
Cline
Weatherford
Smotherman
Taylor
This would obviously change on a nightly basis as I believe Painter will go with the hot hand on the wing for the night between Edwards, Mathias, Stephens, and possibly Cline as well. At the point, a rotation of Hill and Thompson would serve well along with Weatherford gaining some good experience in later points in games or serving as another body against teams with high quality guard play (IU). I am going to go with this guess for the starting 5 and then the rotation after that:
Guard: Hill
Guard: Davis
Guard: Edwards
PF: Swanigan
C: Hammons
This is largely predicated on Hill and Davis being serviceable outside threats. Davis seemed to take another step forward in his outside shooting last year and with his work ethic, why couldn't we expect the same? Hill is an anomaly and I am simply assuming he should be a serviceable threat from outside. Edwards also showed flashes as a freshman of being able to hit from outside, but that lineup would be a killer rebounding 5 as Davis and Edwards rebound about as well as any Guard/small forwards in the B1G along with Swanigan being tabbed an elite type of rebounder and Hammons being highly effective on the low post as a defender. That lineup would be scary to face from an offensive standpoint and gives the Boilers just enough offensive ability to start the games effectively. Once that defensive intensity and lead is established, a more offensive unit can be subbed in as such:
Guard: Hill/Thompson
Guard: Mathias
Guard: Stephens/Cline
Forward: Edwards/Smotherman
Center:Haas/Hammons
And that big x-factor I believe in all of this is Davis and his continued improvement as a player. He mention his want to become a better all around player and one that CAN play the point. If that is the case and Davis improves enough that he can 'share' that responsibility with players like Mathias, Edwards, and even Cline, it would open up the offensive side of the ball immensely:
Guard: Davis
Guard: Mathias/Stephens/Stephens
Guard: Edwards/Mathias
PF: Swanigan
C: Hammons
That is a very intriguing lineup as it potentially allows Purdue's two best long range shooters (from the three of Mathias, Stephens, and Cline) to operate on the floor at the same time if Edwards isn't in the game and not lose much on the rebounding portion of the game both offensively and defensively.
The aspect I am looking forward to is if Coach Painter potentially sold Swanigan on the idea of playing as a 'stretch 5' ala Frank Kaminsky at Whisky. If Swanigan can buy in to that at small amounts of time during the season and the lineup I would really be interested in seeing play together would be this one:
Guard: Davis
Guard: Stephens
Guard: Mathias
Forward: Edwards
'Center': Swanigan
You are placing the best off the dribble player with the three best outside shooters along with a big man who can effectively use his athleticism and also step away from the hoop. It would be intriguing.
Sorry to ramble on but it's hard to not get excited about the endless amounts of potential we as fans perceive this team to have. I am sure a much more savvy and knowledgeable coaching staff is going to have a lot of fun and long nights game planning coming up!
If Davis really could play the point, that would be great. Talent wise, I love this line up [provided Davis can handle ALL the responsibilities associated with a starting point guard]. That's a lot of new responsibility [but, if anyone on this team can do it, Davis can-great worker/attitude/ethics].
PG. Davis/Hill
SG. Mathias/Stephens
SF. Edwards/Smotherman
PF. Swanigan/Taylor
C. Hammons/Haas
If Davis can start game #1 at PG from the get go, I'd be pleasantly surprised, but that would be a hugh boost for this team. Would have to see it to believe it first though. On paper it looks fantastic, to opponents, like a trip through hell, blindfolded. That line up would quickly wear down opponents, in all phases of the game, especially defensively, rebounding & scoring wise. Davis seems to be a natural born leader, on & off court. His future looks very bright.
Go Boilers!!!
PG. Davis/Hill
SG. Mathias/Stephens
SF. Edwards/Smotherman
PF. Swanigan/Taylor
C. Hammons/Haas
If Davis can start game #1 at PG from the get go, I'd be pleasantly surprised, but that would be a hugh boost for this team. Would have to see it to believe it first though. On paper it looks fantastic, to opponents, like a trip through hell, blindfolded. That line up would quickly wear down opponents, in all phases of the game, especially defensively, rebounding & scoring wise. Davis seems to be a natural born leader, on & off court. His future looks very bright.
Go Boilers!!!
Hopefully/in a perfect world, your/our [the Purdue] line up will dictate which players/line ups our opponents will have to alter to match up against a superior Purdue team, & not the other way around. Put OUR best team on the floor, & let the opposition worry about the match ups, or lack there of, THEY are forced to deal with or alter. WE/Purdue should dictate their line up
Let's all hope this season is a "perfect world".
JohnnyDoeBoiler is dead on correct. I agree with him in total minutes part and I agree with his starting five. Davis is not ideal at 2-guard, but he has to start: he's team leader and Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year. Now I could see maybe Painter convincing Davis to put the team first and have him fill in as the main back up at both 2 and 3 and Davis would still get tons of minutes and that way Mathias or Stephens could then start at 2-man. But some people are not going to happy with their playing time next year. And I hope, I really hope Painter doesn't try to play too many guys trying to keep everyone happy next year. Playing too many guys cost us, at least, a couple games during the pre-Big Ten season.
The starting (and main lineup -- the same guys who will be playing the last five minutes unless fouls or injury) will be, I predict...
Hill is gonna start at 1-man. He was brought in to be the point and he's gonna be the point with a very capable Thompson backing him up.
2-man -- this is a the difficult position. Davis is not ideal, but he has to play, unless what I stated about him subbing a ton at 2 & 3. But for now , I predict that Davis starts and either Mathias or Stephens backs Davis up, but only one of them is gonna get major minutes. Either Stephen or Mathias is going to be a 3rd-stringer next year and that is not going to be many minutes. Both of them are basically only shooting guards and won't find any quality minutes at the point or at 3-man because there are better options as backups at 1 and 3. Either Mathias or Stephens (or maybe both) are not going to be happy with their minutes next year.
Edwards starts at 3-man. An outstanding prospect, and even more than Davis, our best all-around talented and skilled player. Davis is the back up 3 (probably Davis's most natural position) and that allows minutes for Mathias or Stephens at 2-man. Smotherman is not a good enough shooter to play here, and if we need a 3rd backup at 3-man, it would be Stephens. We can get him some minutes that way.
Swanigan is the 4-man and he plays a lot, 30 minutes a game. Forget all that stuff about him earning the minutes .He will earn them and he will start. When you get a five-star player, you start and play him, or you don't get any more five-stars for a while. Edwards is the backup 4-man, with Davis now playing 3-man, and freeing up more minutes for Mathias and Stephens at 2-man and some 3-man when Davis is out.
5-man is easy. Hammons starts and Haas as backup, and if needed Taylor is the 3rd stringer, but not many minutes there.
Not a lot of minutes for Taylor, Smotherman, and either Stephens or Mathias. Taylor will have to wait a couple years. Smotherman will have wait and accept that, for now at least, Painter has recruited over him and there's few minutes available, and either Stephens and/ or Mathias are going to have to accept the lack of playing time to some degree also. Cline has zero minutes available at 2-man; he will have to redshirt and Weatherford probably also.
I think Purdue is a top-15 team next year. Certain players, who had plenty of minutes, when Purdue was an average or below-average Big Ten team are going to have accept, that for now at least, Painter has recruited over them, other players will have to develop and get playing time later.
The starting (and main lineup -- the same guys who will be playing the last five minutes unless fouls or injury) will be, I predict...
Hill is gonna start at 1-man. He was brought in to be the point and he's gonna be the point with a very capable Thompson backing him up.
2-man -- this is a the difficult position. Davis is not ideal, but he has to play, unless what I stated about him subbing a ton at 2 & 3. But for now , I predict that Davis starts and either Mathias or Stephens backs Davis up, but only one of them is gonna get major minutes. Either Stephen or Mathias is going to be a 3rd-stringer next year and that is not going to be many minutes. Both of them are basically only shooting guards and won't find any quality minutes at the point or at 3-man because there are better options as backups at 1 and 3. Either Mathias or Stephens (or maybe both) are not going to be happy with their minutes next year.
Edwards starts at 3-man. An outstanding prospect, and even more than Davis, our best all-around talented and skilled player. Davis is the back up 3 (probably Davis's most natural position) and that allows minutes for Mathias or Stephens at 2-man. Smotherman is not a good enough shooter to play here, and if we need a 3rd backup at 3-man, it would be Stephens. We can get him some minutes that way.
Swanigan is the 4-man and he plays a lot, 30 minutes a game. Forget all that stuff about him earning the minutes .He will earn them and he will start. When you get a five-star player, you start and play him, or you don't get any more five-stars for a while. Edwards is the backup 4-man, with Davis now playing 3-man, and freeing up more minutes for Mathias and Stephens at 2-man and some 3-man when Davis is out.
5-man is easy. Hammons starts and Haas as backup, and if needed Taylor is the 3rd stringer, but not many minutes there.
Not a lot of minutes for Taylor, Smotherman, and either Stephens or Mathias. Taylor will have to wait a couple years. Smotherman will have wait and accept that, for now at least, Painter has recruited over him and there's few minutes available, and either Stephens and/ or Mathias are going to have to accept the lack of playing time to some degree also. Cline has zero minutes available at 2-man; he will have to redshirt and Weatherford probably also.
I think Purdue is a top-15 team next year. Certain players, who had plenty of minutes, when Purdue was an average or below-average Big Ten team are going to have accept, that for now at least, Painter has recruited over them, other players will have to develop and get playing time later.
I could see Hill as the odd man out if he can't defend and provide at least an offensive threat in B1G play. If I were Painter, I would try to run a combo at point of Davis, Marhias and Edwards until it is proven to be unworkable. Not many teams are going to have a point guard that will force those three to be unable to bring the ball up and all these have proven they can defend and score within the system.
I may be wrong and Hill may be another Octeus type player for us. I hope so. But leaving shooters who can defend on the bench with the post play we will have seems crazy to me.
These 7 are going to get a good chunk of minutes. They will be the primary guys for Purdue.
Hammons
Haas
Swanigan
Edwards
Davis
Stephens
Mathias
IMO, the rest of the minutes will be either based on matchups, foul trouble, hot hand, or if someone breaks out and becomes one of those guys you can't leave on the bench. I think Smotherman will take one of those spots, and most likely, the last spot will be one of the 3 point guards on our team. If Weatherford is anything Kramer-esque, or Craft-esque, then we have been blessed. He is really the only option that can surprise people at the PG spot. Otherwise, it looks like Hill will get the nod because of experience.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Smotherman on the court a lot, primarily to play defense on the PG position, while someone like Edwards, Davis, or even Mathias, runs point, calls plays. He brings energy, great defense, quickness, and even has a good shooting stroke.
Smotherman
Cline
Hill
Thompson
Weatherford
Taylor
Hammons
Haas
Swanigan
Edwards
Davis
Stephens
Mathias
IMO, the rest of the minutes will be either based on matchups, foul trouble, hot hand, or if someone breaks out and becomes one of those guys you can't leave on the bench. I think Smotherman will take one of those spots, and most likely, the last spot will be one of the 3 point guards on our team. If Weatherford is anything Kramer-esque, or Craft-esque, then we have been blessed. He is really the only option that can surprise people at the PG spot. Otherwise, it looks like Hill will get the nod because of experience.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Smotherman on the court a lot, primarily to play defense on the PG position, while someone like Edwards, Davis, or even Mathias, runs point, calls plays. He brings energy, great defense, quickness, and even has a good shooting stroke.
Smotherman
Cline
Hill
Thompson
Weatherford
Taylor
I don't think Hill was "brought in" to start at the 1. Is it fine if he comes in and shows he can - and starts? Sure. But I don't think he comes in as a clear starter by any means.
As much as I like Haas, I think he could actually see fewer minutes if Swanigan does pan out to be an immediate impact.
In the latter half of the year last year, Haas' minutes decreased. And if Hammons plays as well/improves from his play from then, his minutes could very well increase (I don't think to the 35 minute mark, but more than he was). And I only can really see Haas/Hammons playing at the same time again with a smaller/quicker line-up (i.e. guards + Edwards….or even a PG + 2 perimeter shooters).
Depth is a great problem to have, but it'll be challenging for Painter to find good combos. He has quite a variety of players to work with and I think Purdue is easily the deepest team in the Big Ten.
I also would think we'd see at least one player redshirt. Who would that be?
I would vote Cline. As tempting as he may be to play, we have 2 guys who should be really solid 3 point shooters who, knock on wood, have shown to be solid when healthy. We also do not lose either of them AFTER next season, so we won't be looking for an immediate impact replacement.
I think Cline is capable of playing, but he needs some added strength and is not going to be up there defensively as our other guards.
Taylor would REALLY have to be bringing some solid play. I agree that Swanigan isn't going to be playing some extraordinary amount of minutes. But if Swanigan plays 20 minutes a game, if Taylor isn't a solid contributor - why wouldn't he play Davis + 2 guards, Edwards and Hammons/Haas? We won plenty of Big Ten games doing that last year. He's not going to sit a solid player for Taylor unless Taylor is really making an impact on both ends.
Not saying Taylor isn't capable, but there's also no rush - he has 4 years. You're going to have to really earn minutes and I think Taylor can have a big impact while he's at Purdue, but not sure if next year will be the start of that.
In your line-ups, why would you not redshirt Cline? If anything, you'd play Weatherford. Weatherford isn't a guy you'll want to have on scholarship 5 years. I think he'll be a solid contributor, but you aren't trying to have the least talented of your scholarship players taking up a scholarship an extra year.
I won't even guess at the line ups......too much variety, and I know that they will change accordingly. I will say that if Cline can come in the games, dare I say like Roth for IU did, and bury a couple of threes while being ICE cold off the bench........then no redshirt. And I'm starting to think he is that type of assassin......but we will see. CMP has a lot to work with to be sure.
The difference being IU was not a deep team and essentially played a 4 guard offense. If we didn't have Swanigan and were looking at playing with 3 true guards at most times, I'd say do not redshirt Cline. I just don't know where he's going to find meaningful minutes with Mathias/Stephens being 40%+ capable shooters and can play defense.
How Cline can see time is if he can come in and play similarly to Stephens but not have as many silly turnovers during the course of the game. I know he has been knocked on it before on the boards, but Stephens had some pretty bone-headed turnovers last year due to poor or lazy passes. He is also a liability dribbling to ball...he doesn't really ever spend extended time dribbling the ball anywhere. If Cline can provide shooting numbers like Stephens but also show he has the ability to put the ball on the ground and play solid defense, there isn't any reason why he shouldn't see playing time. Coach Painter has never been shy about sitting an upperclassman because they weren't performing and if Cline can come to campus and perform well, he will play.
Another favorite topic created by this board - Stephens being a lazy passer.
We've had threads on this that you can look at stats and see his turnover rate is not remotely alarming or even close to being bad. You remember his "bonehead" passes because when they do happen, they are on the perimeter which are easier to score on in transition.
I think Painter has shown he has plenty of faith in Stephens.
There's still plenty of time for Kendall to become the great player we want him to be. The improvement this coming season is tied to his health. With that he gains confidence. And then...look out!
Agree, his turnovers are more memorable due to being on the perimeter which I guess I should have been more clear in my explanation. Although he may have had a low turnover ratio, he is still a some what lazy passer. Although not all of them may have been TO's, he comes to mind when I begin thinking about lazy passes in the midst of the motion offense...especially moving the ball from the wing to the point.
Another point is that Stephens rarely has the ball in his hands if he isn't going to shoot, which cuts down on his actual touches.
I still think you're generalizing too much. He had 50 free throws on the season, which was pretty much the same as Vince Edwards (and Vince played more minutes). You don't get fouled that much if you are just catching/shooting or catching/passing. When he was struggling with his outside shot, he made an effort to drive. He wasn't a great finisher, but he was able to draw fouls.
Is he some major ball handler for us? Absolutely not. But he also isn't just catching the ball and either shooting immediately or passing it again. You don't shoot 50 free throws (and obviously not all fouls against lead to free throws) doing that.
I agree with you on those aspects but it doesn't change the actual body of work that Stephens tends to be a very lazy passer...even if those don't end up being turnovers. If he can correct that glaring issue within his offensive game, it will help the entire offensive game plan work more effectively. A motion offense requires clean and crisp passing from all parties to be highly effective. The great thing about the offense with Hummel, Grant, Moore, and LewJack was that there were no lazy passers in that group and all passes were done at a high level of intensity and purpose. When the motion offense for Purdue is really working well, it directly relates to the crispness and the effectiveness of a good pass...not a lazy one.
And here is the proof in that...go to 7:25 of that video and tell me where you see a lazy pass. Heck, watch the whole video and you are going to see crisp and effective passes from all positions which leads open and easy buckets within Coach Painter's system. Stephens has a tendency to throw lazy passes, which cuts down on the effectiveness of the offense. Hence why I said if Cline can come in and shoot evenly with Stephens, play solid defense, and make smart/sound decisions on the offensive end, there isn't any reason as to why he couldn't take his minutes away.
I could see us going full Kentucky as well. With depth in every position I dont see why we cant try it out:
Platoon #1
PG Hill
SG DM
SF Davis
PF CS
C Hammons
Platoon #2
PG PJ
SG Stephens
SF VE
PF Taylor
C Haas
I put these Platoons together because I see #1 being seniors that are able to keep a group of 5 together and work well together. Platoon #2 is all Soph and Jr's that have grown together and will have success together on the court.
Wild Card, BS. RS the two freshman
Platoon #1
PG Hill
SG DM
SF Davis
PF CS
C Hammons
Platoon #2
PG PJ
SG Stephens
SF VE
PF Taylor
C Haas
I put these Platoons together because I see #1 being seniors that are able to keep a group of 5 together and work well together. Platoon #2 is all Soph and Jr's that have grown together and will have success together on the court.
Wild Card, BS. RS the two freshman
Matt has said multiple times that he regretted not shirting Ryne Smith (and I know Ryne had some freshman health issues) and IMO he doesn't make that mistake this time. Losing a whole year for 5 mins a game seems foolish. I think Basil could be in for a minutes crunch as well. Would love him to shirt and try to emulate Davis for 2 years.
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