is going to take Lance's role as chief stopper on D in the back court? i see raves about both guys but i've not seen them personally or watched film. Harris seems to be much more highly thought of in general, but we all know Matt's eye for diamonds not highly polished yet. They won't play as much of course, but we'll need a 'stopper' (to the best of their ability) back there. Hopefully Fletch and Braden take another step in their D as not having Z rim protecting is going to make them have to stay in front of their man.
Which frosh guard
- Thread starter Schmedly_Whiplash
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I can see Fletcher being better, but hopefully he has added some muscle. He has just been absolutely exposed against fast physical guards over the last 2 years.
Sorry, for me ....Not enough 1 minute & 18 second videos out yet to sumize an answer.
But I would guess the answer is really not a frosh at all
But I would guess the answer is really not a frosh at all
I mean it's pretty clear he was targeted last year. Illinois game is a prime example. No one says he sucks, but come on it's an area of needs improvement.
As to the original question, I suspect our best perimeter d player ends up being Colvin. He has the ability and his improvement over the course of last season evidenced someone who understood he needed to get better and worked hard on it.
To go back to Loyer, Colvin started the season worse on defense than Loyer and ended the season arguably better.
Targeted.. by who and who was successful?
Boo buie? He cooked everyone besides castle. TSJ? Also cooked everyone besides castle.
Did he get cooked by any guard that was not beating other teams off the dribble? What about the Zona guards? Bama? Sparty? Minnesota? UT? Gonzaga? How’d he do against them?
That is what I keep thinking. Any player I could name who possibly lit up Loyer, lit up everyone they played against.
But yeah, he needs to improve his defense and his overall ruggedness.
I didn't say "lit up" I said he clearly needs to improve his defense? Are you seriously arguing he doesn't??
I think its going to be freshman cj cox that guy really impress me
Sure he needs to improve, but so does everyone—even smith.
You said teams targeted him. I’m specifically asking you who he was targeted by because there were only a few teams that were successful at targeting him and then getting buckets.
Im not arguing he doesn’t need to improve, I’m saying he wasn’t as bad as you think he was.
I would argue that any targeting done by the opposition to Loyer was on the other end, by the opposing defense to shut him down offensively. Which can work obviously. Dude is not a perfect player, but he's a pretty damn good one and I am never going to understand the level of criticism he gets around here.
There's always a whipping boy here.
Only got off Morton because he didn't play much.
Loyer next up.
I look for him to shut them up this year.
Watched a Harris game on Joe Jackson’s channel and I think that he has a chance to be one of Painter’s best perimeter defenders. I think he’ll have an important role as a freshman because of his defense.
Was on Morton because he posed no threat offensively and wasn’t that great of a defender. Great at guarding off ball but not so great on ball. Loyers offense is 10000x better and his defense isn’t as much a drop off vs his offense as Morton’s offense was to his defense. Hope Morty plays well out in Colorado and able to get his confidence back shooting the ball.
Loyer will start. He understands the game and what CMP wants done. I think that is a given.
He will lead Boilers in scoring several games. It's what he does when he is on.
But it is NOT making him a whipping boy by noticing he is not our best guard defensively.....or that he will have games where he is off. And perhaps in those games coaches use their deep talented team & allow time for others. And that's ok.
He will lead Boilers in scoring several games. It's what he does when he is on.
But it is NOT making him a whipping boy by noticing he is not our best guard defensively.....or that he will have games where he is off. And perhaps in those games coaches use their deep talented team & allow time for others. And that's ok.
Loyer will never be a 'stopper' on D. The best we can hope for with him is that his guy doens't blow by him or get hot from 3.
Colvin's not a freshman, but I agree with others that he'll take a big step, and he has the quickness to handle faster guards.
Cox and Harris will also have a shot, although freshmen (with some exceptions like Kramer) usually struggle on D their first year.
Cox and Harris will also have a shot, although freshmen (with some exceptions like Kramer) usually struggle on D their first year.
I think Harris has a good shot of being a solid stopper by the end of the season. He looks like he has a college ready body, and his strength in HS was already lock down D. Probably not a starter this year, but he should be serviceable by the end of the year to put in to shut down a hot streak from an opposing guard if Loyer is struggling on D and isn't shooting lights out (if Loyer is hot he will outscore any lack of D).
If Myles is muscling up as it appears he is i'm thinking he might not be long for the back court. Unless he's working on his ball handling a LOT, it seems like the 2 frosh guards would be nudging him. More minutes available at 3 and his hops amd length should help him be a factor on the glass. Im hoping he and Cam claim the 3 spot as their own.
GOOD defenders don't usually struggle that much. Mostly the guys that gave it 1/2 azzed effort in hs.
If we are really planning on relying on freshman that much this year we are in trouble. There is a reason only one freshman (Stephon Castle) has started in the final four in the last two years.
He's the worst defender on the team. Who's worse? Excluding incoming frosh.
So now you agree with me that we need a rim protector when Fletch is in the game? 😀
No I agree that Loyer is the weakest perimeter defender on the team.
Which is exceedingly mild criticism.
He certainly is not the best individually on defense at the moment, so you could make the case he’s worse than Colvin. But he’s not the worst at team defense and sometimes it’s better to have guys that are good at team defense, rather than guys being only good at individual defense.
However, I was just asking who targeted him and who was successful…and you didn’t answer it. I was just wondering who came to mind besides Buie and TSJ (who were some of the best 1 on 1 guards in the country).
I just asked what examples you had. You seem to “lose your mind” as well, when people challenge your comments.
You're asking me to explain what everyone here knows true by going back and reviewing games from last season so I can identify individual players for you. Which is pretty silly.
Even more silly because you agree he's the worst individual defender lol
Even more silly because I didn't say he sucked, or that he was horrible, or he should be benched. I said it's a weakness to be improved on.
Which you clearly agree with. Which everyone agrees with. But we are still playing this game apparently that any tiny criticism of Loyer whether it was when he was in a shooting slump or the fact that he struggles containing quick guards individually gets this kind of pushback just because some other people have more unsupported criticisms.
I agree with you he's the worst perimeter defender but I'm going to need you to provide examples anyways
Lol
With apologies to the OP, let me throw a contrarian or different perspective for a minute......look at some of the games/teams where Loyer struggled a little offensively. He's had his moments against these teams - but Ohio State, Rutgers, Minnesota, and Maryland caused some problems (including the 5-7 split knockdown with Smith last year from Kaiser) ....some of that is due to how the game is called, but it's hard to draw absolutes when he performed really well against Tennessee and Arizona.
Going to have to agree that he's unlikely to be a lock-down defender, but he has his moments of making plays when the defense is connected. Totally my opinion, but it seems like maybe more than anyone else, his production on offense will overshadow his production on defense, good or bad. Teams will continue to attempt to Olivia him until they can't (on both ends of the floor). It's going to be a little different this year, though - really interested to see how Fletch plays this year - Painter definitely has more flexibility with lineups and might take a little longer to work those through......not a bad problem to have.
Harris definitely has the potential, though, to be the one-on-one stopper guy....need to see more on Cox and Colvin. I do think Purdue will probably pick up more fouls and force more turnovers than the last couple of seasons. We shall see.
Going to have to agree that he's unlikely to be a lock-down defender, but he has his moments of making plays when the defense is connected. Totally my opinion, but it seems like maybe more than anyone else, his production on offense will overshadow his production on defense, good or bad. Teams will continue to attempt to Olivia him until they can't (on both ends of the floor). It's going to be a little different this year, though - really interested to see how Fletch plays this year - Painter definitely has more flexibility with lineups and might take a little longer to work those through......not a bad problem to have.
Harris definitely has the potential, though, to be the one-on-one stopper guy....need to see more on Cox and Colvin. I do think Purdue will probably pick up more fouls and force more turnovers than the last couple of seasons. We shall see.
He has a little "courtsense" in his statements. I know courtsense would claim to be an attorney as well and has also stated he was on the Purdue board for a very long time.....could this be????
Well, not everyone thinks that. But you can have your opinion and that’s fine. I was just asking to provide some examples since it was a long season and I don’t remember many games where he was a liability on defense. Maybe it was more so his offense outweighed his defense so it wasn’t as noticeable?
He was pretty solid at playing team defense—knowing where to be on rotations, what spot to push the defender to, playing defensive angles etc.
I was just generally curious on a specific game or games that you were thinking of. But all good man, no worries.
You are correct on his team D principals. He is more than ok there.
But yes, individual players blew by him on occasion.....and not just All B10 guys. If you didn't see it last year, that will give you something to look for this year. (It's ok to notice his few shortcomings. Still a great player.)
I never said he was good on defense as an individual and as much as I love Myles, I think Loyer was a bit better than him overall on defense, whether that was team or individual. This year may be a different story…I was just asking for examples because I don’t think he was as bad as everyone always says he was. That could also be based on having the big maple behind him to overshadow his not so great on ball defense. I couldn’t really think of any games besides at northwestern…and I don’t recall Illinois targeting him…not sure they could with us not even guarding Ty Rodgers 😂. (They also had Goode who was targeted by a lot of teams as well..coincidence they went to HS together?!? 😂 )
And one could say UConn but that was the first time all year our guards were outmatched.
Without Zach, he—along with everyone else, will need to up their defense. Smith certainly got a lot better as the season went on. Easily held his own vs TSJ, Walker, Hepburn and the guards throughout the tourney until UConn.
I can recall times when an opponent blew by every Purdue player. Without looking, I would guess Loyer drew more charges than any other player. Gillis probably would have earned that award, but referees saw things that didn't happen.
Jones I think drew 6 charges in a game and clearly drew the most, and of the returning players I feel like Smith drew more than Loyer.
Thanks for the correction, POTFHBTFU. In a thread full of impressions, mine was obviously wrong.
That much? Smith and Loyer will probably be 30 minute guys. There's not "that much" left. The question was who will take the D stopper role, not who will play Lance's minutes.
You could also say the only team to start a freshman in the final 4 won a national title. Both have the same relevance.
Castle is also the projected #4 pick in todays USA today draft preview.
Zach at #14 to Portland.
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Smith played 34 mpg last year.
Loyer played 27.8 mpg last year.
Although Purdue will go as those two go, I see both minutes going down slightly this year.....as CMP has more options. Great recruiting class & improved sophomores.
Smith....around 32
Loyer around 25
That leaves ~ 23 minutes @ the 1 & 2. and 40 @ the 3 for the frosh & Sophomores. And that's ok.
Smith's scoring goes up.
Loyer about the same.
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