any thoughts why he only played 2 minutes? Seems our most athletic 6'9 forward on the team could have helped a bit. He'd been in the rotation but had a short leash last night.
Wheeler?
- Thread starter BoilerinLouisville
- Start date
I agree....Haarms continues to not do much...showing '"0" improvement over last year........Needs to start coming off the bench...
He was getting lost on offense, and not getting position for rebounding on defense. Then he decided he was going to quick shoot us back into the game with his 3-pt shooting. Ugh! I would have him collecting splinters for a while too.
Yeah, now we know why he was redshirted last year. He’s got a ways to go.
He jacked up a 3 early and missed then wasn’t seen again. He needs to let the game come to him. Get some easy put backs or drive more with his athleticism. I didn’t see the D but maybe some missed assignments there? Mann was looking unstoppable in the 1st but then was shut down in the second by NE.
Wheeler shot an open three and got yanked, but he still did more than Eifert, whose entire second-half contribution was re-entering with three fouls, throwing the ball away to start a fastbreak, then hacking the tail of that break into a three-point play with his fourth foul -- a negative five-point swing, singlehandedly. He was beyond lost. And who deserves splinters?
I personally couldn't believe throwing the ball to a layer guarded that time at half court. Cross courts passes between FT lines many times lead to break outs...passes more vertical are just turnover that many times goes against more of a set D. Make no mistake that FSU had length and speed, but....I just hold a view on the offense that you are in control and some Ds make it harder than others, but you are in control with your decisions
It is clear Painter has no idea how to use Wheeler. He hardly played in this game to make an impact -- positive or negative. Painter has given him the green light to take 3s, so it is not like he was not playing within the offense. When folks wonder why similar players like Wheeler turn down the opportunity to play for Purdue, he will be Exhibit A. Regardless of whether you think he should have gotten more minutes last night against FSU, it is obvious that a certain "type" of player stays in Painter's sweet spot: hard nosed, hustling types who have minimal athleticism. Wheeler has shown enough to date to warrant more than 2 minutes of playing time last night -- particularly with Eifert being overmatched. It is difficult to change perceptions when the most important guy (the head coach) seems stuck in his approach.
Wow, way off course here. Wheeler was lost on defense, and was not playing the same game the other 4 Purdue players were on offense. Please learn the game before making statements like "It is clear Painter has no idea...".
So similar players turn down Purdue because of Painter? WTF? Remember a guy named Carl Landry? Vince Edwards? J. Johnson? Biggie? All very athletic players who thrived under Painter, but they understood the plays and the defense. Wheeler is still a work in process.
None of those guys on FSU's team were out of position or failed to understand how to run the offense. Our guys last year had the same kind of group coordination. You can't win games without it. Wheeler is just not getting it yet. He will, but not last night.
I can't like this enough.
For all the positives GE apparently brings in practice ......I am looking forward to seeing those positives in games againt REAL bigtime competition......some day soon.
Here is the situation I "think" coaches agree and disagree on. Some look at players and say I need this and that and play those they think will turn into this and that. Others are less likely to try to "structure" or create a team, but use what htey have currently to the best of their ability and see how things progress. I believe you lean to the create side adn there is nothing wrong with that route. Perhaps that comparison is somewhat found in comparing Brohm's approach and Flecks approach and I've witnessed successful coaches do each. I know me...and I have that inherent "lean" to creating a team within reason...
Eh... I don’t know. Just not all that impressed with Wheeler yet. Very little offensive game, in his 2nd year in the program.
Crazy that some folks on here were heralding him as a “more athletic Vince” a year ago.
He is a more athletic Vince...and a less skilled Vince as well.
Yes. And less instinctive.He is a more athletic Vince...and a less skilled Vince as well.
Yes, so getting a total of about 90 minutes of playing time in 7 games has shown you that Wheeler is lost on offense and defense? Mathboy, you also know what his defensive/offensive assignments are as a "fan"? Finally, you named about 4-5 athletic former players in the same position as Wheeler. As many of you like to say: is that a sufficient enough data points to counter my personal position -- that FSU type players don't fit the Painter profile? The lack of a more robust list of players similar to Wheeler speaks for itself. Ultimately, Wheeler has to find ways to play better overall -- although that is true of the entire team.
I was not talking about the last 7 games. I was specifically talking about the FSU game. How did you miss that? Yes, I can tell when a player is having trouble with the spacing on offense and with staying with his assignment on defense. Not that hard. Watch the game, not just who has the ball.
I just named some athletic 4's that thrived under Painter, and that list was just off the top of my head. I am not sure that it's length has anything to do with your statement "It is clear Painter has no idea...".
I don't like to make strong and relatively hostile statements to fellow Boilers, but your posts make me a little crazy. Making that statement about one of the best coaches in the country demonstrates that you really don't understand the game. Of course we only see you post here after a loss, so I am not sure how much I care to correct your perspective.
Well, having previous experience as a basketball recruit and D-1 player at a high level, I know a thing or two about this sport. Moreover, I did not start the Wheeler thread but decided to jump in after reading some of the comments (especially Mathboy's). I am not as emotionally caught up in the back and forth that typically happens on the Free Board -- and have certainly added positive comments when this team has played well over the years.
Wheeler played 2 minutes in the FSU game. He barely broke a sweat in those minutes, but it was enough for you to conclude that he was "having trouble with the spacing on offensive, etc, etc...Listen, you may not like what Wheeler brings to the table in general, but don't make conclusions (as it relates to the FSU game) based on several minutes of playing time. It is similar to the back and forth about Nojel Eastern's value, or Haarms struggles in some of these games. We all think they should be more advanced. Why? They have been in the program for 2 years and are now only seeing significant playing time this season.
Finally, as I have said on other Basketball threads, most D-1 programs have a "type" of player that they recruit based on the "culture" of their institution. Purdue is no different. My earlier position stands: many athletic players with the requisite IQ to play in a Power 5 conference (like Wheeler) decide to take their talent's elsewhere when they observe current players who are limited get opportunities to play major minutes even when they struggle to bring value at their position. Painter can coach/recruit whomever he wants, but that also allows players to make a determination if this system fits their playing style. This isn't hard to understand, right???
Wheeler played 2 minutes in the FSU game. He barely broke a sweat in those minutes, but it was enough for you to conclude that he was "having trouble with the spacing on offensive, etc, etc...Listen, you may not like what Wheeler brings to the table in general, but don't make conclusions (as it relates to the FSU game) based on several minutes of playing time. It is similar to the back and forth about Nojel Eastern's value, or Haarms struggles in some of these games. We all think they should be more advanced. Why? They have been in the program for 2 years and are now only seeing significant playing time this season.
Finally, as I have said on other Basketball threads, most D-1 programs have a "type" of player that they recruit based on the "culture" of their institution. Purdue is no different. My earlier position stands: many athletic players with the requisite IQ to play in a Power 5 conference (like Wheeler) decide to take their talent's elsewhere when they observe current players who are limited get opportunities to play major minutes even when they struggle to bring value at their position. Painter can coach/recruit whomever he wants, but that also allows players to make a determination if this system fits their playing style. This isn't hard to understand, right???
From your remarks earlier and in this post, I have to question that you are actually who you say you are: "having previous experience as a basketball recruit and D-1 player at a high level". That's impressive if true, but your gross generalizations about Painter reflect something entirely different... I may have to call you out on your claim.
I'll have to disagree with you a bit on this one. The issue I have is Eifert was a complete liability in the game and continued to get minute after minute. I didn't see him getting pulled from the game for 'looking lost on defense'. There is zero doubt Painter prefers blue collar players who hustle or we wouldn't have Eifert in the game getting abused repeatedly last night. I didn't see anything out of Tre in his minutes that would say he doesn't deserve more minutes. But I don't see him hit the floor much to be able to develop. If Wheeler and Tre aren't getting minutes because they're not ready, who's working to develop them at a higher level? They were recruited for a reason. Something's wrong with player development or there are a lot of misses in recruiting if we're depending on Grady and upperclassmen/transfers to be the answer.
Grady Eifert is a walk on. He gives us a great lift off of the bench. Love the effort. A real “fan favorite” type of a guy. However, the fact that he is getting starting minutes on a B1G team which has and should be competing for the league title every year is downright embarrassing. And a true testimonial to how bad our recruiting has been. We have spent more time in the top 25 in the last 4 years behind only Kansas and UNC... Right? We have had great teams. How the hell can we have the gap in recruitment that we have?! Why are we forced to start a player like Grady? Or why do we have to rely on grad transfers such as Octeus or Boudreaux to fill key rolls?
I don't totally believe it was being lost on offense. Hunter came in for defensive purposes because of matchups. He seemed to get lost on every possession but played 9 minutes. Different players obviously have different purposes and he seems to give the benefit of the doubt on some based on matchups. I believe you have to let these players fail to become great and he seems to put a leash on the ones we feel there is a big upside.
Grady hustles and tries really hard, dont worry, we'll be all good guys. In all seriousness, this has been my concern all year. Outside of edwards our team just isn't that good which i think is highlighted by the fact grady is getting major minutes. A lot of role players who struggle to score. Next year is going to be rough if carsen leaves.
Any time you have an undersized, athletically challenged walk-on in a starting position, it speaks volumes about
a) recruiting
B) player development
C) coaches trust in players and letting them play through mistakes
a) recruiting
B) player development
C) coaches trust in players and letting them play through mistakes
Painter is overly concerned about efficiency rankings to allow the young guys time to work through their mistakes. I remember cringing when LewJack came into games early in his career but he seemed to be allowed to work through them more... or perhaps I’m old and just think of the good ole days
I'm not concerned about next year. I have been watching Purdue long enough to know that when a dominant player leaves, the supporting cast becomes stars. I think I first thought this when Russel Cross left early. Purdue won the B10 the next year without him. The same happened after Big Dog left. Most recently we saw this when Biggie left. We lost a consensus All-American and we actually had a better TEAM.
The 3 Pete team was perhaps the biggest surprise in my lifetime as a Purdue fan. I didn’t see them winning the league that year at all, yet, B1G Champs.
I agree with your premise that we have had very good players leave and the team remained competitive at a high level. Painter has done a good job since the RJ years and although he hasn’t pierced the sweet sixteen ceiling yet, he has given us good competitive teams every year minus the two down seasons where RJ player hero ball.
Looked what happened after our 07 class left. I dont think It will be that steep of a drop off but its not a guarantee the supporting cast will turn into anything more then role players.
I hear you. But that was an entire class, not one player. I see that being more similar to this year's class, where multiple graduates had a shot at the NBA. And the remaining and incoming talent next year is much better than the talent following the 07 class.
I agree, this year is the equivalent of what happened when the 07 class graduated and talent is better across the board now than at that time (think Carsen vs Terone, Haarms vs Tacos, etc.). Barring injuries or a mass exodus Next year and assuming Carsen leaves (which I don’t think is a lock), I’d put the floor next year at 7/8 in the conference with significant upside depending upon player development.
