What's the long game here

[SCBoiler1]

I'm not as discouraged as some about the loss last night but I don't understand Painter's long game.

We had a senior starter last night who played 16 minutes, scored 0 points (0 shots), had 3 rebounds, no assist, no steals, 1 turnover and 4 fouls. What's strange to me is that neither Painter nor our fan base seem to think this is a problem. We just say he hustles, plays defense and does the little things. But is that enough for a starter on a top 25 team that really only has 2 other starters who can consistently score the basketball?

I would argue that EB needs to get as many minutes as possible. Right now he's playing less than half the game and is arguably our second most productive player (2nd in points, 1st in rebounding per 40 min). He's 6'7 or 6'8, he can play forward. Secondly, If Purdue is going to improve we need guys like Haarms, Wheeler and Williams to get minutes and develop. Even if Painter thinks Grady give's us the best chance to win now it still doesn't explain why Grady is getting 25-30 minutes in games we're winning by 20 + points.

I just don't get it.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

I'm not as discouraged as some about the loss last night but I don't understand Painter's long game.

We had a senior starter last night who played 16 minutes, scored 0 points (0 shots), had 3 rebounds, no assist, no steals, 1 turnover and 4 fouls. What's strange to me is that neither Painter nor our fan base seem to think this is a problem. We just say he hustles, plays defense and does the little things. But is that enough for a starter on a top 25 team that really only has 2 other starters who can consistently score the basketball?

I would argue that EB needs to get as many minutes as possible. Right now he's playing less than half the game and is arguably our second most productive player (2nd in points, 1st in rebounding per 40 min). He's 6'7 or 6'8, he can play forward. Secondly, If Purdue is going to improve we need guys like Haarms, Wheeler and Williams to get minutes and develop. Even if Painter thinks Grady give's us the best chance to win now it still doesn't explain why Grady is getting 25-30 minutes in games we're winning by 20 + points.

I just don't get it.

Call in to his radio show and ask.

 

[James J Chitwood]

If your team gets contributions from a Bobby Buckets type player, that’s great. When you need contributions by that same kind of player, you probably have some gaps that will show up against good teams with better athletes. No disrespect intended to the Boiler-fave, hard-working, non-sought-after recruits. The tough part is that some highly valued recruits get passed by in the rotation. The Coach doesn’t do that because he’s trying to prove a point. The middle of the pack players sometimes disappoint. Purdue’s gap between its 5th through 10th best players and walk ons, isn’t that wide some seasons.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Call in to his radio show and ask.

You know that is a good idea. I'm really not trying to complain. I just can't figure it out.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

You know that is a good idea. I'm really not trying to complain. I just can't figure it out.

It's going to be the best way to get answers. Here you are just going to get emotional rants that won't be based on anything logical.

 

[Boiler Buck]

About half the time I am unimpressed by GE..... last night was certainly one of those games that left me wondering?

But then every now and again he hustles, rebounds, sets picks, steals the the ball, makes winning plays, and I am impressed. Now let's see that against the top 20.

** I am wondering though if he can produce and not be a defensive liability against the top half of the B1G?? We will see soon enough in these next two games.....

 

[SCBoiler1]

If your team gets contributions from a Bobby Buckets type player, that’s great. When you need contributions by that same kind of player, you probably have some gaps that will show up against good teams with better athletes. No disrespect intended to the Boiler-fave, hard-working, non-sought-after recruits. The tough part is that some highly valued recruits get passed by in the rotation. The Coach doesn’t do that because he’s trying to prove a point. The middle of the pack players sometimes disappoint. Purdue’s gap between it’s 5th through 10th best players and walk ons, isn’t that wide some seasons.

I agree with what you say here, but I don't understand why he doesn't let the younger guys get more minutes when we're playing poorer teams and ahead by 20+ points. If you wait to bring in a top 150 recruit until the last 3 or 4 minutes of a blow out it does seem like your trying to make a point.

I think Taylor got the point last year and moved on. Never a huge fan of Taylor as a player (seems like a great guy) but could he of helped at the 5 this year? Maybe.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

I agree with what you say here, but I don't understand why he doesn't let the younger guys get more minutes when we're playing poorer teams and ahead by 20+ points. If you wait to bring in a top 150 recruit until the last 3 or 4 minutes of a blow out it does seem like your trying to make a point.

I think Taylor got the point last year and moved on. Never a huge fan of Taylor as a player (seems like a great guy) but could he of helped at the 5 this year? Maybe.

Only if he could stay healthy. That was probably his biggest hindrance against him here.

 

[guppy likes purdue]

I agree with what you say here, but I don't understand why he doesn't let the younger guys get more minutes when we're playing poorer teams and ahead by 20+ points. If you wait to bring in a top 150 recruit until the last 3 or 4 minutes of a blow out it does seem like your trying to make a point.

I think Taylor got the point last year and moved on. Never a huge fan of Taylor as a player (seems like a great guy) but could he of helped at the 5 this year? Maybe.

Couldn't hurt but he isn't exactly setting the world on fire for Hofstra either

 

[Emartin70287]

I'm not as discouraged as some about the loss last night but I don't understand Painter's long game.

We had a senior starter last night who played 16 minutes, scored 0 points (0 shots), had 3 rebounds, no assist, no steals, 1 turnover and 4 fouls. What's strange to me is that neither Painter nor our fan base seem to think this is a problem. We just say he hustles, plays defense and does the little things. But is that enough for a starter on a top 25 team that really only has 2 other starters who can consistently score the basketball?

I would argue that EB needs to get as many minutes as possible. Right now he's playing less than half the game and is arguably our second most productive player (2nd in points, 1st in rebounding per 40 min). He's 6'7 or 6'8, he can play forward. Secondly, If Purdue is going to improve we need guys like Haarms, Wheeler and Williams to get minutes and develop. Even if Painter thinks Grady give's us the best chance to win now it still doesn't explain why Grady is getting 25-30 minutes in games we're winning by 20 + points.

I just don't get it.

I've been saying the same thing. I don't get E.B. not getting 30 minutes.

 

[Poprudy]

If your team gets contributions from a Bobby Buckets type player, that’s great. When you need contributions by that same kind of player, you probably have some gaps that will show up against good teams with better athletes. No disrespect intended to the Boiler-fave, hard-working, non-sought-after recruits. The tough part is that some highly valued recruits get passed by in the rotation. The Coach doesn’t do that because he’s trying to prove a point. The middle of the pack players sometimes disappoint. Purdue’s gap between its 5th through 10th best players and walk ons, isn’t that wide some seasons.

Bingo! That's why he needs to let 3-6 fail and let them get better based on his coaching abilities.

 

[Poprudy]

I don't think it's the player that isn't showing us what they have or can do. CMP is the one that needs to allow these kids to show us. They will get better under him because I hope he feels his coaching will do that for a player. If not, then we will never truly know how good CMP is as a coach.

 

[chiboiler7]

I think Haarms will come off the bench and EB will be a starter soon. Haarms energy off the bench would be big for us and EB is better than a 6th man.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

I think Haarms will come off the bench and EB will be a starter soon. Haarms energy off the bench would be big for us and EB is better than a 6th man.

I personally think right now Haarms is starting simply to try and win the tip. I thin EB has consistently come in a short time after.

 

[RFSNES]

I think Haarms will come off the bench and EB will be a starter soon. Haarms energy off the bench would be big for us and EB is better than a 6th man.

I would like EB (4) TW (5) TW can only learn by playing and what better teached on the floor than
EB. Great rebounding and pick setting tandem.
Both have good hands and have B10 bodies.
have Haarms , Wheeler and Grady fill as needed.
I think TW will be a key for us down the road.

 

[M51]

I personally think right now Haarms is starting simply to try and win the tip. I thin EB has consistently come in a short time after.

Are you serious? Why not do same for Edwards? Wait until a stoppage so Edwards does not pick up a quick foul.

Haarms has been playing the first 3-5 minutes. Prob should take him out in first 10 secs, he has started games with a TO or foul within a minute or two.

 

[Ignacious McNutt]

Are you serious? Why not do same for Edwards? Wait until a stoppage so Edwards does not pick up a quick foul.

Haarms has been playing the first 3-5 minutes. Prob should take him out in first 10 secs, he has started games with a TO or foul within a minute or two.

My point wasn't to gig Haarms but an opinion as to why EB isn't starting instead is all. If EB starts we likely never win tip, but we don't win many now I guess either.

 

[mathboy]

One of the problems with EB at the four is that he doesn't want to play the four. He was recruited to do so by us originally and turned Painter down because Painter wanted him at the 4 and not the 5. To me, this seems to be a light weight distinction given our motion offense but it seems to matter to EB.

I still think EB at the 5 and Haarms at the 4 has possibilities, but then who do you sub in for these guys? Tre would have to be Evan's backup, and you can put Eifert, or Sasha into the line up for Haarms.

 

[hoosierdog1]

I'm not as discouraged as some about the loss last night but I don't understand Painter's long game.

We had a senior starter last night who played 16 minutes, scored 0 points (0 shots), had 3 rebounds, no assist, no steals, 1 turnover and 4 fouls. What's strange to me is that neither Painter nor our fan base seem to think this is a problem. We just say he hustles, plays defense and does the little things. But is that enough for a starter on a top 25 team that really only has 2 other starters who can consistently score the basketball?

I would argue that EB needs to get as many minutes as possible. Right now he's playing less than half the game and is arguably our second most productive player (2nd in points, 1st in rebounding per 40 min). He's 6'7 or 6'8, he can play forward. Secondly, If Purdue is going to improve we need guys like Haarms, Wheeler and Williams to get minutes and develop. Even if Painter thinks Grady give's us the best chance to win now it still doesn't explain why Grady is getting 25-30 minutes in games we're winning by 20 + points.

I just don't get it.

+1

 

[lightwork]

One of the problems with EB at the four is that he doesn't want to play the four. He was recruited to do so by us originally and turned Painter down because Painter wanted him at the 4 and not the 5. To me, this seems to be a light weight distinction given our motion offense but it seems to matter to EB.

I still think EB at the 5 and Haarms at the 4 has possibilities, but then who do you sub in for these guys? Tre would have to be Evan's backup, and you can put Eifert, or Sasha into the line up for Haarms.

I don't think thats true. In Brian's interviews with him and CMP to begin the season he said he was recruited after his transfer to play the 4. In an interview after summer practices Ebo said he saw himself as a 4, but would do whatever necessary to help the team.

I don't know much about his HS recruitment, but that certainly does not seem to add for me. Anyone have some insight?

 

[BoilerinLouisville]

you have to look at the staff as well-that's their job to suggest and advise. These guys are all making big bucks, and are ultimately graded on wins/losses. It's very obvious that EB is our best front court player, by far. He should be starting at the 5 and playing 30 minutes a game. His game is very similar to Morgans at IU. Bring Haarms off the bench to work with the 2nd team and provide a spark.
I think you have to give Tre a run against certain teams. He's big with soft hands, and a matchup problem. I'm also not convinced Wheeler won't find his niche this year, playing just 2 minutes against Florida State was a bad call, especially with Grady having foul trouble.

 

[lbodel]

you have to look at the staff as well-that's their job to suggest and advise. These guys are all making big bucks, and are ultimately graded on wins/losses. It's very obvious that EB is our best front court player, by far. He should be starting at the 5 and playing 30 minutes a game. His game is very similar to Morgans at IU. Bring Haarms off the bench to work with the 2nd team and provide a spark.
I think you have to give Tre a run against certain teams. He's big with soft hands, and a matchup problem. I'm also not convinced Wheeler won't find his niche this year, playing just 2 minutes against Florida State was a bad call, especially with Grady having foul trouble.

30 minutes a game is a bit of a stretch. I think Painter, right now, is caught between a rock and a hard place with this team. For us to be a successful team, Haarms has to contribute solid minutes. The solution to that is not to cut his minutes, but hope that given he has not been in this role of a starter - it will eventually click (E'Twaun Moore was like this - it took him a bit to really click his freshman year).

This isn't the only situation like this - right now, Nojel is a type of player many people on here have complained about - not an outside threat, hit/miss offensively, and has had some turnover problems. But he isn't going to become better on the offensive end sitting on the bench. He has upside, so gotta give him minutes. His defensive talent eventually will also help the whole team gel defensively, which usually takes some time.

Right now, Painter has players that need to be in there offensively - and he has players that need to be there in defensively - and these combos don't always complement eachother with the current team. The long game is that when either/or gels, this can be a pretty solid and consistent team.

 

[DAG10]

I've been saying the same thing. I don't get E.B. not getting 30 minutes.

Just as mind-boggling is T.E. getting anything close to that...only at Purdue is that not just accepted, but, many (including the Head Coach) try to justify it.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Just as mind-boggling is T.E. getting anything close to that...only at Purdue is that not just accepted, but, many (including the Head Coach) try to justify it.

I love EB, but the fact is he can’t defend good stretch 4s. Maybe he should be getting the majority of the 5 minutes. Then let Haarms get the balance and maybe battle GE and AW for some 4 minutes.

 

[DAG10]

I love EB, but the fact is he can’t defend good stretch 4s. Maybe he should be getting the majority of the 5 minutes. Then let Haarms get the balance and maybe battle GE and AW for some 4 minutes.

Don't disagree with that at all...but, neither can the present starter at the 4. There is a reason he is walking on, and, it is not because other schools missed on him...and it says far more about Purdue than it does about him that he is starting and playing the minutes that he does.