Update on Harrison Ingram

[TooPoorToBleedGold]

He's releasing his "Top 6" on Aug 1. I think he also retweeted the Corey Evans story with Stanford and Purdue 1a and 1b, saying "people will be surprised" (paraphrased). So that seems like bad news for us.

His tweet said he was announcing his "Final 6" Schools on the 1st, not his top six. When a recruit does a "top" anything I always assume it means who is leading. I think this is why some folks thought Duke might have had a chance to be a key player in his recruitment even though they still have not offered him. When a recruit does a final list I take it as these are the only schools they are still considering.

In the end these kid's recruitments are fluid, as they should be, and things can change as new information (i.e. offers) come in. I just hope to see Ingram choose Purdue in the end.

 

[lbodel]

An elite offense would be great, but I think an elite scorer is even more important.
Someone like Edwards (and he's probably not a great example because I believe he was just so unique) who you can give him the ball and just say "go get us a bucket".
Granted, those types are hard to find. But, I do believe you need to have at least 2 NBA level talents on the floor to consistently make tourney runs.

I mean only 10 schools have simply made the tournament 5 years in a row. There's not a lot of "consistent" tourney run programs unless you think Purdue should be a top 10-15 program nationally. And again, what about Purdue says "top 10-15" program? The team's budget isn't sniffing top 25.

 

[lbodel]

What do you think MBob says when presented with this data?
Do you think the ath dept and school administration is happy to be upper half B10 and a relatively successful program without committing as much financially as others?
Is the justification for Brohm's salary (top 2 in the B10?) and financial commitment to football because the AD and Admin believe Purdue can compete for the playoffs and a NC?

I think it boils down to #2 and #3 I listed. Why proactively invest in basketball to get it ahead....while a) the team is doing fine and we're selling tickets and b) Football also needs to do better.

I don't envy Bobinski for a number of reasons - he came into a situation where football is bad and behind where it should be from athletic department support, and basketball was good but behind where it should be from athletic department support. I also don't envy him as Brohm's contract has been a challenge. You don't want him to walk, but then you're also probably paying more than a school like Purdue should be paying for a football coach in compared to results. But certainly you didn't want him to walk...so it's a tough position. But that's what an athletic director's job iis.

I think my 2 sore spots is that when Bobinski came, he laid out a plan for football with projects now, project on the horizon...plans that went 5-10 years out. Even if you need to focus most efforts on football first, you can still lay out a strategic plan to support basketball.

Secondly, the quick defense on this subject is that we have to fix football. Well, I get it - except:

1. Our athletics revenue has grown MASSIVELY in the last few years due to the Big Ten revenue. Purdue used to really have to operate dollar-for-dollar revenue/expense. We're nowhere near that anymore and we have one of the smallest athletic departments in the Big Ten.

2. At the end of the day, basketball is most likely the sport that Purdue has the best chance of being a top, consistent program. I think history shows that and present day. While you need to build football, you have to find ways of supporting the program that actually got you through the dark days of football. And the program that's producing the most notoriety for Purdue. Making Painter choose 1 or the other position to add -- I mean Purdue has a budget over $100 million - and you can't add a $100k position for your multiple Big Ten coach of the year, champion, etc. coach? Instead you're making him choose one or the other? And then football is adding 3 FTEs just to support recruiting.

You gotta find ways to support the program. Unfortunately, as I. mentioned, as long as the team is winning...it's the same mindset of we'll just carry on until it needs to be addressed.

 

[northside100]

I mean only 10 schools have simply made the tournament 5 years in a row. There's not a lot of "consistent" tourney run programs unless you think Purdue should be a top 10-15 program nationally. And again, what about Purdue says "top 10-15" program? The team's budget isn't sniffing top 25.

A very strong coach?

I agree that if you looked at an objective criteria of top MBB jobs that Purdue is probably in the top 20 to 30 versus the top 10 to 15, based primarily on a strong recruiting base, solid fan base and 'good enough' support from the administration. Once you get past the true blue bloods (NC, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas), the next tier of programs is going to cycle up and down, providing the opportunity for a program like Purdue, which has a strong coach and continuity, to move up in the pecking order.

So does Purdue 'deserve' to be considered a top 10 to 15 program? No. Does MP have the potential to get them there? We'll see but it seems possible.

 

[bonefish1]

I think it boils down to #2 and #3 I listed. Why proactively invest in basketball to get it ahead....while a) the team is doing fine and we're selling tickets and b) Football also needs to do better.

I don't envy Bobinski for a number of reasons - he came into a situation where football is bad and behind where it should be from athletic department support, and basketball was good but behind where it should be from athletic department support. I also don't envy him as Brohm's contract has been a challenge. You don't want him to walk, but then you're also probably paying more than a school like Purdue should be paying for a football coach in compared to results. But certainly you didn't want him to walk...so it's a tough position. But that's what an athletic director's job iis.

I think my 2 sore spots is that when Bobinski came, he laid out a plan for football with projects now, project on the horizon...plans that went 5-10 years out. Even if you need to focus most efforts on football first, you can still lay out a strategic plan to support basketball.

Secondly, the quick defense on this subject is that we have to fix football. Well, I get it - except:

1. Our athletics revenue has grown MASSIVELY in the last few years due to the Big Ten revenue. Purdue used to really have to operate dollar-for-dollar revenue/expense. We're nowhere near that anymore and we have one of the smallest athletic departments in the Big Ten.

2. At the end of the day, basketball is most likely the sport that Purdue has the best chance of being a top, consistent program. I think history shows that and present day. While you need to build football, you have to find ways of supporting the program that actually got you through the dark days of football. And the program that's producing the most notoriety for Purdue. Making Painter choose 1 or the other position to add -- I mean Purdue has a budget over $100 million - and you can't add a $100k position for your multiple Big Ten coach of the year, champion, etc. coach? Instead you're making him choose one or the other? And then football is adding 3 FTEs just to support recruiting.

You gotta find ways to support the program. Unfortunately, as I. mentioned, as long as the team is winning...it's the same mindset of we'll just carry on until it needs to be addressed.

Well laid out argument.

Do you think the AD or Admin reply to the question of why they don't invest more in the BB is because they don't have the money?
And if it really is a money issue, do you think it's because PU alumni don't support athletics financially?
Or is that with the big money coming in from BTN, that more of that money is disproportionately allocated to football?
Do we know if any of the BTN money goes outside the AD? (I know there were rumors that Cordova used BTN money for things other than athletics).

If the case is that not enough alumni provide $ support, then is the school not doing a good job of building interest in PU athletics while people are students so that they'll develop a love of and financially support PU athletics when they graduate?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Well laid out argument.

Do you think the AD or Admin reply to the question of why they don't invest more in the BB is because they don't have the money?
And if it really is a money issue, do you think it's because PU alumni don't support athletics financially?
Or is that with the big money coming in from BTN, that more of that money is disproportionately allocated to football?
Do we know if any of the BTN money goes outside the AD? (I know there were rumors that Cordova used BTN money for things other than athletics).

If the case is that not enough alumni provide $ support, then is the school not doing a good job of building interest in PU athletics while people are students so that they'll develop a love of and financially support PU athletics when they graduate?

I think it’s very simple: MONEY. From an ROI standpoint, football had a much bigger addressable market than basketball did. Ross-Ade had 150,000 or so unsold tickets in 2016. How many did Mackey have in 2016-17?

Edit: Oh and Reason #2: Mitch was embarrassed by the product on the field at R-A.

 

[Purdue85]

I think it’s very simple: MONEY. From an ROI standpoint, football had a much bigger addressable market than basketball did. Ross-Ade had 150,000 or so unsold tickets in 2016. How many did Mackey have in 2016-17?

Very good point.

There really is no mystery as to why so much is invested in the football program.

One, CFB is the "mother's milk" of most programs/

Two, Purdue football facilities desperately needed attention.

Three, based on recent financial info (from the '17-'18 season), football ticket revenue had approached 70% of all Purdue sports ticket revenue.

We made some great strides while Tiller was here, and then it seemed to slow.

Assuming we see the football program continue to progress, I would expect we will see a "leveling off" of dollars going to the FB program, and more money going into the MBB program. Also assuming the COVID decisions don't financially ruin our position.

 

[mathboy]

But this is my thing. Us as fans want a Final Four, to be national championship contenders, etc. - and put the pressure on Painter for it.

However, no matter how you look at it....Purdue itself is not treating the program as a "Final Four" caliber program. I keep seeing (not you per se) people looking at Painter to just magically recruit better.

If you took all the factors of investing in a basketball program (coaches/support staff, facilities, budget, etc.) - and ranked the programs blindly in each of those categories -- you maybe would say that Purdue's trying somewhat to compete in the Big Ten, but not a top 5 within just the conference. And no way in hell nationally.

But what's changed for Painter due to Purdue's support since he was hired? In the last 10+ years: There was initial barebones treatment of the program that was adjusted with the Mizzou thing. They crowdfunded for a new video board/lights which, at best, brought Purdue up to average - not ahead (the sound system is still weak). Assistant coaches are given 1 more year on their contracts (catching up). Painter was allowed to hire 1 FTE even though he outlined 2 needs (recruiting position and analyst, which still lags peers). And a refurbishment of the locker room (catching up). The budget has improved since 10+ years ago, but is bottom half of the Big Ten.

Everything Purdue's doing is reactionary, or simply playing catch up, in bits and pieces -- these are relatively small things. There's nothing that's been done by the administration that's actually put Purdue ahead...let alone made a statement. Our basketball player facilities would rank in the bottom couple in the Big Ten.

Purdue ended up doing a lot for football because fans made it very well known it needed to change -- because we were flat out bad and nobody was going to games. Painter is a victim of his own success here - Purdue has basically taken his ability to have success for granted:
1. Because he can still win when underfunded. and
2. His results far outpace the level of what he's supported with (i.e. they won the Big Ten, why do we need to proactively do more?)
3. He's an alum, so there isn't as much pressure of others coming knocking

People that whine about not making the final four need to look in the mirror. Our university and our fan support needs to back Painter better to achieve the goals.

 

[northside100]

People that whine about not making the final four need to look in the mirror. Our university and our fan support needs to back Painter better to achieve the goals.

Make a Final Four and University and fan support get a boost. I agree that fans that ‘expect’ it are delusional but it’s only going to flow one way at Purdue, win big and additional support will follow.

 

[lbodel]

Make a Final Four and University and fan support get a boost. I agree that fans that ‘expect’ it are delusional but it’s only going to flow one way at Purdue, win big and additional support will follow.

This is not typically how schools become good in sports, just FYI. You think Clemson invested in football AFTER Dabo went to the national championship game?

 

[lbodel]

A very strong coach?

I agree that if you looked at an objective criteria of top MBB jobs that Purdue is probably in the top 20 to 30 versus the top 10 to 15, based primarily on a strong recruiting base, solid fan base and 'good enough' support from the administration. Once you get past the true blue bloods (NC, Duke, Kentucky and Kansas), the next tier of programs is going to cycle up and down, providing the opportunity for a program like Purdue, which has a strong coach and continuity, to move up in the pecking order.

So does Purdue 'deserve' to be considered a top 10 to 15 program? No. Does MP have the potential to get them there? We'll see but it seems possible.

I'm not talking about Painter - I'm saying what says "we are running a top 10-15 program" that PURDUE as an institution? And if Painter wasn't an alum - I would likely bet he wouldn't be at Purdue right now.

 

[lbodel]

I think it’s very simple: MONEY. From an ROI standpoint, football had a much bigger addressable market than basketball did. Ross-Ade had 150,000 or so unsold tickets in 2016. How many did Mackey have in 2016-17?

Edit: Oh and Reason #2: Mitch was embarrassed by the product on the field at R-A.

To be fair, Bobinski and Daniels have a LOT easier jobs to make athletics decisions given how the TV money has fallen from trees.

Purdue's revenues have exploded due to Big Ten TV contracts, while still being the smallest athletic department in the Big Ten.

Revenues:

2019: $111 million

2016: $85 million

2014: $71 million

2010: $60 million

That's an increase of $40 million in extra cash in just 5 years! And nearly doubled in under 10 years.

I totally understand that a majority of that extra cash goes towards improving the football product. But that's where I don't get ignoring basketball. Another FTE that Painter wants would be $100k...out of the $40 million more in revenue the department now has! The department banked $9 million into a savings account last year.

And again, you don't have to undertake a major project - but having an announced plan that can demonstrate that we are here to dominate in basketball wouldn't hurt and doesn't cost a lot. We came out with a bold plan for football, why can't we for basketball? That's all I'm really saying.

I think momentum is really important in college sports. Someone's doing something new all the time. Look at the Big Ten - a team like Illinois is surging who we didn't really have to go toe-to-toe with over the past several years. As long as we are always on our heels reacting, other teams will capture the momentum instead of us.

 

[lbodel]

Very good point.

There really is no mystery as to why so much is invested in the football program.

One, CFB is the "mother's milk" of most programs/

Two, Purdue football facilities desperately needed attention.

Three, based on recent financial info (from the '17-'18 season), football ticket revenue had approached 70% of all Purdue sports ticket revenue.

We made some great strides while Tiller was here, and then it seemed to slow.

Assuming we see the football program continue to progress, I would expect we will see a "leveling off" of dollars going to the FB program, and more money going into the MBB program. Also assuming the COVID decisions don't financially ruin our position.

I don't think anyone, including me, doesn't understand that football is important. But that's not really my point. Do you think Michigan State tells Tom Izzo - hey Tom, we're going to spend the next 5 years just focusing on football but you just go do your thing?

No. You have to walk and chew gum.

Ticket revenue isn't the driver of Purdue's athletic department revenue. Sure, it helps. But that's not the driver. We have a relatively small fan base with an average size/small-ish stadium in the Big Ten.

You know what sustained us all through football's horrors as fans? Basketball. And now basketball which has been consistent winners, is basically told to "please hold". I just don't care for that viewpoint. Yes, football has some larger priorities. Doesn't mean you can't take advantage of incredible excitement surrounding basketball.

But every program is doing things all of the time. You can't take 5 years off from making sure your basketball program doesn't keep up - let alone get ahead. Just in the last 10 years, almost every Big Ten program has done a major facility project for basketball - either their arena and/or basketball practice facility.

 

[Purdue85]

I don't think anyone, including me, doesn't understand that football is important. But that's not really my point. Do you think Michigan State tells Tom Izzo - hey Tom, we're going to spend the next 5 years just focusing on football but you just go do your thing?

No. You have to walk and chew gum.

Ticket revenue isn't the driver of Purdue's athletic department revenue. Sure, it helps. But that's not the driver. We have a relatively small fan base with an average size/small-ish stadium in the Big Ten.

You know what sustained us all through football's horrors as fans? Basketball. And now basketball which has been consistent winners, is basically told to "please hold". I just don't care for that viewpoint. Yes, football has some larger priorities. Doesn't mean you can't take advantage of incredible excitement surrounding basketball.

But every program is doing things all of the time. You can't take 5 years off from making sure your basketball program doesn't keep up - let alone get ahead. Just in the last 10 years, almost every Big Ten program has done a major facility project for basketball - either their arena and/or basketball practice facility.

You either missed the point or are ignoring it.

Go back and read my post/point. It said nothing about not being able to "walk and chew gum".

Nor did I argue that ticket revenue is a "driver". When your main revenue sport is lacking in infrastructure, you address it. Now. By the way, your main revenue sport isn't just "important". It's f*$&ing essential.

We were in a hole. Not sure why you simply cannot "get" that. It's almost like you're arguing just to argue.

 

[lbodel]

You either missed the point or are ignoring it.

Go back and read my post/point. It said nothing about not being able to "walk and chew gum".

Nor did I argue that ticket revenue is a "driver". When your main revenue sport is lacking in infrastructure, you address it. Now. By the way, your main revenue sport isn't just "important". It's f*$&ing essential.

We were in a hole. Not sure why you simply cannot "get" that. It's almost like you're arguing just to argue.

I read it.

So why can't we walk and chew gum?

You're saying you aren't saying that...but then replying and yelling at me about how football is essential (which for your playbook, I never said it wasn't!).

 

[northside100]

This is not typically how schools become good in sports, just FYI. You think Clemson invested in football AFTER Dabo went to the national championship game?

No kidding? If Purdue has a chance to do it it’s not going to be the typical path. You’re clearly smarter than I am, maybe you see OSU type resources coming from somewhere?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

To be fair, Bobinski and Daniels have a LOT easier jobs to make athletics decisions given how the TV money has fallen from trees.

Purdue's revenues have exploded due to Big Ten TV contracts, while still being the smallest athletic department in the Big Ten.

Revenues:

2019: $111 million

2016: $85 million

2014: $71 million

2010: $60 million

That's an increase of $40 million in extra cash in just 5 years! And nearly doubled in under 10 years.

I totally understand that a majority of that extra cash goes towards improving the football product. But that's where I don't get ignoring basketball. Another FTE that Painter wants would be $100k...out of the $40 million more in revenue the department now has! The department banked $9 million into a savings account last year.

And again, you don't have to undertake a major project - but having an announced plan that can demonstrate that we are here to dominate in basketball wouldn't hurt and doesn't cost a lot. We came out with a bold plan for football, why can't we for basketball? That's all I'm really saying.

I think momentum is really important in college sports. Someone's doing something new all the time. Look at the Big Ten - a team like Illinois is surging who we didn't really have to go toe-to-toe with over the past several years. As long as we are always on our heels reacting, other teams will capture the momentum instead of us.

Agree with a lot of this, but I think Illinois is cheating.

 

[Purdue85]

I read it.

So why can't we walk and chew gum?

You're saying you aren't saying that...but then replying and yelling at me about how football is essential (which for your playbook, I never said it wasn't!).

Nobody said we can't.

Nobody yelled at you, Karen.

 

[northside100]

I'm not talking about Painter - I'm saying what says "we are running a top 10-15 program" that PURDUE as an institution? And if Painter wasn't an alum - I would likely bet he wouldn't be at Purdue right now.

I very clearly understand what you’re saying.

Duke wasn’t Duke before Coach K. UVA and Villanova were pretty average for a long time before they got the right guy. The Clemson’s and OSU’s will always have a leg up but other programs make it happen as well, you just need the right combination of good and lucky.

No, Purdue isn’t an elite program. No, Purdue fans don’t have the right to expect elite performance. That doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

 

[Courthouse Carp]

Well laid out argument.

Do you think the AD or Admin reply to the question of why they don't invest more in the BB is because they don't have the money?
And if it really is a money issue, do you think it's because PU alumni don't support athletics financially?
Or is that with the big money coming in from BTN, that more of that money is disproportionately allocated to football?
Do we know if any of the BTN money goes outside the AD? (I know there were rumors that Cordova used BTN money for things other than athletics).

If the case is that not enough alumni provide $ support, then is the school not doing a good job of building interest in PU athletics while people are students so that they'll develop a love of and financially support PU athletics when they graduate?

Nobody said we can't.

Nobody yelled at you, Karen.

You tell him, Gritty!!

#YouArePartOfTheProblem

 

[New Pal Boiler]

You tell him, Gritty!!

#YouArePartOfTheProblem

Hey is that Matt’s rental for recruiting trips?

 

[Courthouse Carp]

Hey is that Matt’s rental for recruiting trips?

It was... along with other Purdue coaches on their recruiting trips.

Please remind me... exactly why is it that Purdue Athletics is "in a hole"??

#SMDH

 

[FirstDownB]

I wish Ingram would just commit already so I can stop clicking on this thread for updates.

 

[Boilerbub73]

I wish Ingram would just commit already so I can stop clicking on this thread for updates.

Well here let me help you out hes not coming to Purdue so you can stop checking now.

 

[tenwest]

Sounds like he’s waiting for that Duke offer. I hope then Painter plucks Kaufman since iu has already assigned him a locker and fitted him with candy stripe pants.

 

[lbodel]

Agree with a lot of this, but I think Illinois is cheating.

Well, just an example. You see a lot of fresh faces in the Big Ten.

Right now is an interesting time in the Big Ten. Izzo is going to retire soon. That leaves "top dog" of the conference up for grabs. There's plenty of contenders that have what it takes (of course, MSU doesn't necessarily decline). Performance wise Purdue is one of them, but it will take some other things outside of Painter's control to seize it. I just don't want to find ourselves in a few years having to play catch up all over again.

 

[HarrysPostGame13]

Sounds like he’s waiting for that Duke offer. I hope then Painter plucks Kaufman since iu has already assigned him a locker and fitted him with candy stripe pants.

Lmao well done

 

[northside100]

Sounds like he’s waiting for that Duke offer. I hope then Painter plucks Kaufman since iu has already assigned him a locker and fitted him with candy stripe pants.

Kaufman and Furst layered on top of the 2020 class would be scary good. I don’t think my heart could handle the joy of Ingram, Kaufman and Furst.

 

[Boilermaker24]

 

[New Pal Boiler]

View embedded media

Is this a Final 6, or a “final 6 unless Duke offers”?

 

[SIBoiler2]

Is this a Final 6, or a “final 6 unless Duke offers”?

Yes it is.

 

[boilernuke]

This is not typically how schools become good in sports, just FYI. You think Clemson invested in football AFTER Dabo went to the national championship game?

No, Clemson invested in players, if you know what I mean. Dabo didn't do so hot his first few years, then all of a sudden he got some great players. Clemson fans (I live in SC) were not too excited about Dabo early on and some wanted to get rid of him for a name coach. With how he runs his program and how 4 on 5 stars fell into his lap, it was a great recipe for winning.

 

[HarrysPostGame13]

View embedded media

Has he given an official date when he will be announcing? Feels like I've been waiting a lifetime.

 

[AAE09]

Is this a Final 6, or a “final 6 unless Duke offers”?

He said in his announcement that Duke was the hardest school to cut, but didn't want to include them without an offer. So... Yes.

 

[Roeder]

View embedded media

Hope it is Purdue, but I could see him picking any of those schools for different reasons. I really hope it is not Michigan or UNC though.....ugh. I just don't buy the Howard hype and for someone that values academics, UNC and their recent history would be laughable.

 

[Boilerbub73]

Go a 110 on Kaufman Buy his mom a car get his dad a house and a job It's all legal just ask North Carolina Duke Kansas Arizona Louisville And many more.

 

[Boilermaker24]

Has he given an official date when he will be announcing? Feels like I've been waiting a lifetime.

Think he actually said he wants to commit before his senior season.. so only a few more months

 

[SegregationOfDuties]

Interesting list. Objectively, Purdue is, at best, the 4th most prestigious academic institution on his list? Clearly he values a good education which is great to see. I am curious how much academics will factor into things from this point on.

 

[lbodel]

Hope it is Purdue, but I could see him picking any of those schools for different reasons. I really hope it is not Michigan or UNC though.....ugh. I just don't buy the Howard hype and for someone that values academics, UNC and their recent history would be laughable.

To be fair, what happened at UNC was a product of athletes who did not care about academics and just wanted to get by - and people who made that happen for them. It doesn't mean it's not actually a good school. It's one of the top public schools in the country.

 

[SCBoiler1]

To be fair, what happened at UNC was a product of athletes who did not care about academics and just wanted to get by - and people who made that happen for them. It doesn't mean it's not actually a good school. It's one of the top public schools in the country.

North Carolina has a strong academic reputation. I don't take individual college rankings particularly as gospel but both Forbes and US News have North Carolina ranked quite a bit higher than Purdue.

You might respond by pointing to their recent academic issues within their athletic programs but the reality is it is a good school and if an athlete wanted to get a quality education, he/she could get it at UNC. Its just like at Purdue. Most of Purdue's basketball players are majoring in Organizational Leadership which isn't the most challenging program at Purdue.

As someone pointed out in a previous post, his list includes some really good academic schools, I wonder what he is planning on majoring in?