UNC?
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Don't disagree at all, but, not an 8/9 seed that anyone (including Purdue) would be excited about seeing as a potential second round opponent.
I have it on good authority that they are still blue bloods and that gives them extra points when placing tournament teams.
I mean....they won the title last year y'all. I think they get a little street cred for that. Plus someone else hit it: do you really want to play 8 seed UNC in the second round?
Agree here. We aren't talking about that UK team with what was almost 5 lottery picks on it that just needed more time to figure out how to play together and got an 8 seed. UNC has some seasoned veterans on it but appears to just be missing pieces for consistent play this season.
Very unlikely...barring a sub .500 record, hard to imagine them not being in, deserved or not. UNC is in good regard with the NCAA certainly, simply see the "punishment" after their epic cheating scandal.
This is not a typical unc team but it did beat osu easily. I still wouldn't be too afraid of a team that Luke maye is the 2nd best player.
They had two great years but there's less takent and skill than what purdue would bring to that game.
I think Texas is the most scary 8/9.
You do realize why the NCAA did nothing don't you? Do you want to set a precedent where the NCAA determines the curriculum of any University? That simply is not their role and shouldn't be. I think it sucks but Duke gives a bunch of their athletes "independent study" classes some of them are highly suspect and I'm sure many schools do the same thing. So should the NCAA have the power to determine which of those IS classes have real merit? Regular students took those fake classes too at UNC. So while you and I may think it blows huge chunks, it was the right decision.
No but what the NCAA could have done is pulled it's ability to play in post-season competition and limited scholarships based on a precedent of preferential treatment and blatant want to push athletes in to courses that were created for obvious reasons to keep players eligible.
UNC is #2 in the country in rebounding margin. That's the weakest part of our team. I would not want to see that as an 8/9 or 7/10 game.
After our game, they talked about who do they like better - Purdue or MSU. Both Andy Katz and Hummel said Purdue - right now. They mentioned MSU has a higher overall ceiling, they just aren't there right now (and doesn't mean they ever will be). Same thing with UNC - they have a lot of talent that can turn it up. Those are dangerous teams to face in a single elimination, season ending tournament.
NCAA Tourney is all about match-ups. I don't think UNC is a great one for us. Not saying we couldn't win - but I'll take an Alabama, Providence, Nevada, Arkansas, Florida State, etc. over UNC in that round.
Except there were other students that took those courses besides athletes. It still boils down to the question, should the NCAA be able to determine curriculum at a member school? You open that can of worms there is no telling where it stops, plus, the NCAA just isn't going to do that. They would end up in court and according to my attorney friends, lose big.
I'd need to really check my numbers but a fellow faculty member here at HHS shared that something like roughly 35% of the population of those classes was athletes and that is why they didn't get in more trouble...because 65% were 'regular' students. The issue is that the total student-athletes is less than 15% of the total student population. No other classes are registered in such a manner. It was essentially a version of plausible-deniability. They did just enough to say the classes were not illegal BUT purposefully created them with that intent.
Yes, that's largely the point. But according to the attorney's again, the NCAA has no role in determining the course, course content or other value of any particular course. If the classes had been open only to athletes, then the NCAA might have had a case to void the progress of a student athlete, but in this case the NCAA was powerless to act without risking being sued. Not to mention the NCAA functions at the pleasure of the member schools. I doubt any school, including Purdue, wants the NCAA to determine the value of a particular course, major or degree program.
I'm not saying it's the same situation by any means, but what percentage of OLS classes are athletes...
Not even close. I think that major probably has over 1000 every single year. I’d say maybe 10% student athletes at most.
That's probably close. I've spoken in several and there are usually 4 or 5 athletes per class that is about 30 if I remember right. Leadership has a higher per-cent as does entrepreneurship (the OLS class, not the major).
You admittedly may know more on the matter...but, at least to me, it was not a case of determining curriculum...it was a case of UNC knowingly have basketball players take "fake" classes so as to retain eligibility or improve their GPA...it was the fact that they knowingly cheated, not whether the class had merit (which, it did not). There is no doubt that many schools offer worthless courses and that at said schools, athletes often take those classes...but, they are actually TAKING a class, which was not the case in UNC. Again, if basketball players were knowingly enrolled in the class(es) for the sake of academic (and, in this case, athletic) benefit, then it was more than a case of determining curriculum...I would agree on the point that the NCAA should not be involved in that arena, but, again, I did not see that as the issue here...as I said though, maybe I am wrong.
The fact is they knowingly had students take a fake class some of whom were athletes. How do any of us know whether a independent study course actually involves any work? So again the point was and is do you want the NCAA determining curriculum at member schools. Does it suck? Sure but so do a lot of the other factors involving the student portion of student athlete.
i get what you're saying.
the fact as i see it is that UNC offered FAKE classes to keep athletes eligible. to stay out of trouble with the ncaa they offered it to all students. absolutely academic fraud. lawyers should not have been able to get them out of the sanctions.
UNC should have been severely penalized
take the athletes out of the equation and they can offer fake classes if they want to. you only have one reputation and they destroyed theirs in my opinion
If the school has accreditation, they have standards they must live up to. Also, giving credit to those not attending classes or attending fake classes is academic fraud. Think of it like ghost employment. Public universities are more susceptible as they receive federal funding.
Do I think the NCAA should even the playing field? Absolutely. The universities are academic first and athletics second and should be treated that way. Providing the players unfair benefits also treads into title 9. The same advantages would need to be provided equally.
Allowing students to stay academically eligible by cheating is indeed cheating. I think it's a slippery slope though, because I truly believe the percentage of athletes that would in no way be academically eligible if not for sports is much much higher than it appears. I also think their should be some considerations considering how many hours athletic programs require. There is no perfect solution unfortunately and somebody will always find a work around or a way to cheat the system to benefit themselves or their team.
UNC’s legal Team played this perfectly. They took the chance on saying they had lax oversight on these courses. Their accrediting agency punished them for it but NCAA couldn’t do anything since they admitted guilt on oversight.
I read an article where someone outlined the whole strategy.
One thing I'd point out is that UNC has more athletes (27 sports) - and their undergrad population is about half of Purdue's (17k). So if you cut out half of Purdue's student body and add more athletes, you'd be looking at much higher percentage.
Also, let's not pretend like Purdue doesn't "suggest" majors for athletes. Most of our basketball and football team are OLS majors.
Again, it's not apples to apples. Our basketball team seems like a lot of guys that do well academically, not just skating by.
But to pretend like Purdue's athletes are majoring in a broad assortment similar to the student body makeup...that's just not the case.
last year's Villanova team could probably answer that...
Yet, they are actually taking actual/real classes...your point is valid, but, in this case, it is not apples-to-apples with what UNC did.
Gonzaga and UNC can answer that also, they won their matchups against #8 seeds.
Considering a large part of the student body are in engineering degree programs, you are right. It is nearly impossible for a student athlete to take a class that has a lab involved.
On the other hand, and this horse has been beaten into unrecognizable pulp, Purdue does NOT have a GS degree. Therefore, all student athletes, per NCAA rules, must declare a major and make consistent progress toward that degree.
One of our best running backs got his degree in kinesiology - a damn hard degree. Others have gotten Construction Tech, High School Teaching, Aviation Tech, Behavioral Science, a lot are in Communication.
NOTE: Purdue does not offer a single degree program with the word "SPORT" in it. Like SPORTS ADMIN.
I don't know of any who declared ones like African American Studies, but I am sure there are a few.
Again, I'm not ripping on Purdue. But I'm not going to pretend we are holier than thou like many do (and yes, I think Purdue has some tougher aspects of being a student, but not sure they really tip the scales).
1. Yes, Purdue does not have a general studies degree. However, they do have an exploratory studies "major" you can do for 2 years now.
2. Just because Purdue doesn't have a general studies degree, doesn't mean there aren't easy majors. My friends in OLS (including athletes) barely had to lift a finger. While Swanigan certainly had good grades, many of the classes he took were online classes - not exactly rigorous.
3. Just because Purdue doesn't have a "sports" degree, doesn't mean there still aren't easy classes. Before OLS took off, many athletes were HTM majors. I'm not sure there's a massive difference in difficulty (I know someone who majored in sports management at another school and had to take accounting, economics, etc. classes - it was basically a business major with some sports themed classes).
4. Yes, there are athletes at Purdue in "real" majors. But there are at other schools too. Marcus Paige at UNC was a double major who earned several academic awards, for example.
5. While it certainly is challenging, you can still major in difficult things and play a sport. Matt Kiefer was a chemical engineering major while playing basketball, which is probably the most challenging sport academically (miss weekday classes, spans over two semesters).
I think overall, part of this across the entire NCAA has to do with expectations. There's surveys about the attitudes that athletes have coming into college - with absurd expectations that they will go pro. If you arrived on campus as a student convinced you'd win the lottery in a couple years, you probably wouldn't go run to sign up for 7:30 am Management 200.
Yes, you hit on a solid joke in the athletic buildings that some cloud passes over most athletes at the end of their sophomore year that smacks them with the fact that they are not going to make a living going pro... the "counseling" that is requested during that time is certainly a spike on the graph. Regarding the Exp Studies. In my six years working with the athletes, I honestly never heard of it. I think the problem is that unless someone is a 2 and done, it will leave them hanging for a major. And no, I had nothing to do with Swanigan.
Overall, men's basketball is the only sport that has players doing that. Baseball must stay 3 years per MLB rules. Football may have some in the future, but hasn't in the recent past. So, Exp Studies doesn't play a role.
OLS may be an easy major, but when you add the required courses for nearly all majors (MA155, COMM201), there's no coasting. Add into that the fact that the athletes in many sports (not usually basketball) have never had to write a real paper (see southern football players) and things get tough for at least that group. Plus, according to most athletes, these courses and having to take them right away is FAR more difficult that their friends at other schools. It's a common topic.
