Ducking the question?
Here is another for you and others. What do you think we should do about egregious Chinese business and trade practices? Nothing?
Train Wreck. Clown Show.
- Thread starter Katscratch
- Start date
Here is another for you and others. What do you think we should do about egregious Chinese business and trade practices? Nothing?
No, you just have to wait awhile, things will be fine. We were told it was all going to get fixed quickly. But now we have to be patient. Oh, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. I don't remember hearing that part. All based on a policy 100 years ago that helped lead us to the Great Depression. All cooked up by the guy who bankrupts casinos.
Think this was good for the American people?
Growing China trade deficit cost 3.7 million American jobs between 2001 and 2018: Jobs lost in every U.S. state and congressional district
Summary and key findings The United States has a massive trade deficit with China. The growth of the U.S. annual trade deficit with China, which has increased by more than $150 billion since the beginning of the Great Recession, is a significant reason why manufacturing employment has not fully...
www.epi.org
I'm not going to play your freaking word games. "All republicans "? Is that what you want to argue about? All or some? Why? Is that the point? Did you see who was speaking on the video? All senior Republican leaders. Go play with yourself.
Did you see who was speaking yesterday in favor of tariffs? Union workers and other middle class people that the dems abandoned long ago in favor of liberal elites.
Correct, but it needs to be strategic. I understand that this above your head and that of the average MAGA.
Anecdotal complete nonsense. They found some non-economist dumbass that is excited to wear their cult tin-foil MAGA hat on national tv and tell Trump how super-duper his ideas are? Irrelevant.
So is your diversion to ChinaChinaChina. Does China have a trade imbalance with us? Yup. They have factories; we have higher per capita net worth and customers. DO they have human rights abuses? Yup. So, go ahead... tariff China!
Now answer this or keep ducking: what about the tariffs on so many of our allies - countries who are having tariffs imposed on them that are nowhere near the level that they have tariffs on American imports.
Stop with the ChinaChinaChina - I answered it. Tell me about the rest of the world and the 'not-reciprocal' tariffs that we have now laid on those countries.
Ah, "hope" is now proof that something is going to work. Note that economists all over the world think it's a bad thing. And "America first" is so unbelievably infantile in the 21st century. The US was already humming along. Trying upend the entire global economy is reckless. Keep on defending it, "Riveting," but it's going to continue to be a colossal failure for the regime. I'm just hopeful we have elections in '26 and '28.You are claiming it is not good for anyone? That qualifies as truly stupid.
International Companies Bet Big On America: A New Wave Of US Jobs
CEOs see a U.S. economy ripe for growth.www.forbes.com
All he has is anecdotal nonsense. And you're exactly right - MAGAs will cheer this all the way to unemployment.
Offender in what regard? Having a trade surplus with respect to another country isn't an offense, FYI. And why are you so fixated on IP theft?China is the largest offender by far. To clarify yourself, are you saying tariffs are not the answer for the largest offender by far - and if so, what is the answer? To do nothing?
US Trade Deficit by Country 2025
worldpopulationreview.com
Economic sanctions are a lever, diplomatic negotiations, etc. Tariffs are taxes that drive up prices for US consumers. Please tell me you understand this concept. Please ... Manufacturing of tchotchkes and manual assembly of electronics is not what we want to onshore. Textiles is not a good business, either. Most of the industries in China evolved as the US moved from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. Why are you MAGAs so fixated on bringing this type of manufacturing back to the US? Prices will skyrocket.
Hope? You don't think all those new mfg operations coming in will be good for the US?
What is infantile is wanting to continue running massive trade deficits and outsourcing US jobs.
Then why is that long list of companies in the Forbes article planning to move, open, or enlarge facilities in this US. Why don't they do it in Mexico? Do they know less than you do about tariffs?
I'm not sure you are in manufacturing, but I'm guessing not. Operators here are EXPENSIVE and hard to find. Automation is expensive as well, and lead times are long. Smaller companies will not be able to afford the capital expenditures.
Some large companies are undoubtedly going to pull some of their production back into the US, but what about the supply chain? Most robots, servos, pneumatic components, etc. are made overseas.
Mexico is receiving massive tariffs as well. We're you under the impression that Trump was only levying tariffs on China?
You seriously think tanking the economy is the answer? I'm dead serious with this question, because that's clearly where we're headed under this misguided regime.
I told you. Let's do what we're doing and destroy our economy. I think we are on the same page.
In other words, you have no ideas about how to counter China trade/business unfair practices.
I do.. its setting tariffs on Canada and Europe so our prices increase. I told you that.
I don't think the tariffs will 'tank' the economy.
I do think that China is a special case that has worked long and actively to undermine the US, so I am in favor of pushing back hard against that police state.
I think I trust economists more than I trust a Trump acolyte ... And again, you're 100% fixated on big, bad China. What about Germany, are they a police state? The UK? France? Brazil? India?
Did you trust the economists who assured us that inflation was 'transitory' during the Biden term?
I said China is a special case and I am glad to see action against that police state instead of administration family members striking personal deals with the CCP.
For France, UK and Germany, I am trying to understand how the tariffs were arrived at -- rather than just repeating mindlessly that 'tariffs are a tax' like you and others on this forum. Specifically, is factoring in the large trade deficits with those countries a reasonable approach? I don't know if it is - but maybe. What do you or even @Katscratch think, if the latter can calm down from his TDS.
I am also trying to factor in how those countries have ripped us off for decades padding their expansive social programs while relying on us to pay for the lion's share of their defense.
No, it isn't what happened BEFORE the mission happened. You have been duped by the rabid woke news media. It was a real time description as it occurred and if you read the actual messages that I provided in a link above, it is obvious that is true.
Since you're asking my 'stance', here it is. This was a one-time accidental security breach that caused no harm whatsoever and obviously it will not happen again, but nonetheless the Dems have gone frothmouth ballistic over a nothingburger. Hillary's emails were thousands of intentional security breaches over four years, God only knows what was hacked and the damage they caused, and the Dems think this was a nothingburger.
Tariffs ARE A TAX. What in God's name are you blathering about? A tariff is LITERALLY a tax on an IMPORTED good. The importer pays the tax, and the cost of goods goes up to cover it. What is your definition?
I know how they came up with the tariffs on EU nations - no thought, just "trade deficit= bad, so tariffs!" This regime has zero clue and doesn't do anything with actual thought behind it.
Inflation was obviously a vestige of COVID. You can blame Biden all you want, but it was global and not confined to the US. We did better here than most other nations, but keep spouting your Fox talking points like a good Red Hat.
The point was that you and others keep saying that as if tariffs are therefore always bad. They are not. You yourself seem to recognize their value against the CCP police state.
You think there is no thought behind closing the border and removing illegal alien criminals? Or working to end the slaughter in Ukraine? Or ending idiot DEI programs in the federal government as another example?
My comment was about believing economists, not about Biden's incompetence.
Just to be clear, they came up with the tariffs by making up a trade deficit in Europe that doesn't exist. For some reason Trump is counting sales tax (VAT) to all goods in Europe as part of the trade deficit. It'd be like including our sales tax in Indiana of 7% as a trade deficit with other countries. Maybe you agree with that approach?
And why do you keep bringing up the border, Ukraine, and DEI? Irrelevant to this conversation about how Republicans are currently destroying the economy without a plan. Also, Democrats want a border as well as evidenced by the bill set forth by Democrats last term to reduce immigration that Republicans shut down. Working to end the slaughter in Ukraine is an interesting one.. not sure I'd die on that hill if I were arguing for Republicans. DEI is just a red herring to distract for Republican's bad economic policies.
Are you saying we have no trade deficit with Europe, or else that Trump used the wrong number?
The comment about the border et al was in reply to DG's statement that this admin "doesn't do anything with actual thought behind it. "
Whoa, put down the bottle, Gramps. It's WAYYY too early in the day to be this drunk, unless you're just this unhinged.
remember, there was to be an agreement signed with Chinese where we both come to the understanding of how we want to deal with each other, complete with in-built enforcements and punishments. Guess who scrapped it. Yeah
Me I am a simple man. From the perspective of the everyday person, what Trump announced yesterday was effectively a 3-5% National sales tax, and a very regressive one too. i.e. the effective rate is higher the lower your income.
only someone who doesn't understand basics of economics frets about trade deficits. Like national debt in your own currency, they are both artificial problems meant to rile up people for political reasons. They are not real problems.
agricultural -> industrial -> services is a 1 way paradigm as productivity and standard of living improves. Nation after nation see this happen.
And there's a reason why. as technology improves, we keep replacing things with more effective technology until all we are left with are things we do for each other that technology can't replaces (i.e. services).
in 1800 over 90% of Americans were involved in Agricultural sector
In 1900, that number had dropped to ~65%
and by 2000, it was under 5%,
yet we were producing more food than ever before with fewer workers.
I have never seen a country transition backwards from services to industrial/agriculture without a serious drop in standards of living. There's no way to go back industry/manufacturing being a big employer without all of us being worse of economically. But Trumps tarrifs sure will get us started.
Hold on to your seat everyone.
And there's a reason why. as technology improves, we keep replacing things with more effective technology until all we are left with are things we do for each other that technology can't replaces (i.e. services).
in 1800 over 90% of Americans were involved in Agricultural sector
In 1900, that number had dropped to ~65%
and by 2000, it was under 5%,
yet we were producing more food than ever before with fewer workers.
I have never seen a country transition backwards from services to industrial/agriculture without a serious drop in standards of living. There's no way to go back industry/manufacturing being a big employer without all of us being worse of economically. But Trumps tarrifs sure will get us started.
Hold on to your seat everyone.
Oh Thank Goodness! The national debt isn't a real problem! It's an imaginary problem, like Sasquatch, Big Foot and the bogeyman. Let's keep on borrowing and spending!
God bless it - there have been a few in this thread trying to deal with irrational Trump sycophants for a while now.
Purdue is an institution that produces some of the best, brightest minds in America. Much appreciated that many of those minds have joined the discussion today.
Purdue is an institution that produces some of the best, brightest minds in America. Much appreciated that many of those minds have joined the discussion today.
national debt is not a real problem. Republican voters may not know it. But their leaders do. You haven't noticed that every Republican President since Reagan (except GHW Bush) intentionally blows up the debts. Every single one of them.
- Reagan came and trippled our debts.
- GWB met a surplus, immediately passed a massive tax cuts that led to deficits and added to debt, and then left us with GFC and massive deficits
- Trump came and immediately passed a tax cuts that made things worse, and then on the way out in the name of dealing with COVID ran massive massive deficits (by the way that was the right economic call)
- Trump II is immediately angling for more tax cuts that will add 5T to debts.
national economics is not indivual economics. the national debt is mostly a political issue not an economic one. And if you watch the actions of politicians that yell about it it the most, you wil notice their actions are not in line with actually getting the debt down. They are more in line with spending the money they way they prefer.
They are not problems for libs like you, but for those who lose their jobs because of unfair trade practices they are a real problem - not that you would find that concerning.
Then why is there a long and growing list of companies planning to build/expand in the US instead of in Mexico or other low-wage countries? Do they not understand that they are working against their own best interests? Should they be listening to you and DG for advice?
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