Today's Scrimmage

[Wolegib]

I'm not sure where you differentiate between a traditional 4 (power forward) and a 5. Haarms is a 4 that can play as a 5 if needed, which any traditional 4 could, and for many teams does. Other than dunks off of dumps, Haarms shots were ALL perimeter...or at least seemed that way. A 12 to 15 or 18 foot shot that has a high chance of going in is GREAT for a traditional 4. Although Haarm's shots were baseline...I'm guessing he could be effective on the elbows (around FT line ends) which allows an easy pass down low to Haas AND the spacing that allows a pass behind the three point line.

Haarm's does have a perimeter shot, but let's not confuse that with a 7'3" person needing to shoot behind the arc...as THAT situation would be EXTREMELY rare. That would only be due to needing his D inside and having an inability to make hay inside on offense and/or needed for a final shot in the closing seconds. Haarm's greatest value to this team relative to "skill" is his ability to shoot from the perimeter as well as score inside and the initial appearance that Haarm's can dribble and pass a bit. Haarm's is a skilled player more known for his finesse than his power. Without Taylor playing, Haarms typically went against Haas. Had Taylor guarded Haas...perhaps we would have seen Haarm's play almost exclusively on the perimeter?

Haarm's will be groomed as a basketball player. He will develop an inside and outside game and Matt will never stick him all the time with his back to the goal although there will be times it is needed. Matt knows his basketball.

I guess my definition of a perimeter shooter is different than most. My definition was the ability and willingness to take and make 3 point shots like the guy from Michigan, and Frank the Tank. from UW or Dirk . I sort of expect all centers and power forwards to be able to take and make the 12-15 footers rather than put backs, dunks and lay-ups. . .

I had also thought that when people posted that Haarms could play the 4, that he'd actually be placed in situations where he'd guard guys like V Edwards. What better time and opportunity than in a scrimmage against one of the better 3/4s in the BIG 10?

I fully expected Haarms to hold his own against Haas offensively and defensively. Admittedly, I would expect Haas to be better. but I would have enjoyed seeing the mismatch of Haarms against Edwards offensively, and to see if he could hold his own defensively against a quicker forward. That would have been fun to watch.

the early reports I read and videos I saw were from Haarms playing Euro ball. I'm uncertain what the real level of competition was. Admittedly, that was from several years ago. But he played like a really tall wing rather than typical center.

I'm quite certain that given time and practice, Haarms will be able to extend his shooting range. I just thought he was already there and that his offensive game was more like a wing than a post player.

Admittedly, without Taylor , somebody had to play center against Haas. And despite the height difference, it would have been fun in a scrimmage with nothing at stake to see Ewing or Grady play inside against Haas, and see what Haarms could do against Edwards on the wing. ,

 

[jadeezra]

I'm actually thrilled he's not a perimeter guy. We have enough 3 point shooters on this squad, looks to have a nice mid range game which is much more valuable to this team imo

 

[tjreese]

I guess my definition of a perimeter shooter is different than most. My definition was the ability and willingness to take and make 3 point shots like the guy from Michigan, and Frank the Tank. from UW or Dirk . I sort of expect all centers and power forwards to be able to take and make the 12-15 footers rather than put backs, dunks and lay-ups. . .

I had also thought that when people posted that Haarms could play the 4, that he'd actually be placed in situations where he'd guard guys like V Edwards. What better time and opportunity than in a scrimmage against one of the better 3/4s in the BIG 10?

I fully expected Haarms to hold his own against Haas offensively and defensively. Admittedly, I would expect Haas to be better. but I would have enjoyed seeing the mismatch of Haarms against Edwards offensively, and to see if he could hold his own defensively against a quicker forward. That would have been fun to watch.

the early reports I read and videos I saw were from Haarms playing Euro ball. I'm uncertain what the real level of competition was. Admittedly, that was from several years ago. But he played like a really tall wing rather than typical center.

I'm quite certain that given time and practice, Haarms will be able to extend his shooting range. I just thought he was already there and that his offensive game was more like a wing than a post player.

Admittedly, without Taylor , somebody had to play center against Haas. And despite the height difference, it would have been fun in a scrimmage with nothing at stake to see Ewing or Grady play inside against Haas, and see what Haarms could do against Edwards on the wing. ,

TReed has said that he has guarded them. Wisconsin runs a swing offense, which I don't fully understand...just not enough hours in teh day to study that. I do understand it to be backwards of the Flex which I know pretty well. Wisconsin has posted guards due to having bigs shoot the perimeter shot. It is their version of a mismatch physically with skill. Haarms may very well be able to shoot the three ball and may be able to guard the perimeter players just fine, but on this team it would be rare that he would be needed to do that. Perhaps you will see what you want down the road in certain situations, but Matt needs to use Haarms where he is best suited for the team,while developing him to be the best ball player possible.

 

[Dakota Girl]

It would be a darn shame if you suddenly came down with a 24-hour virus, which prevented travelling and being exposed to cell phone "rays." Get your rest and drink plenty of "liquids;" Boilermaker Fever is making the rounds.

"Don't worry, Honey....I'll manage....you go and have a good time, and give my best to the new couple; hope they like the reversible jackets we gottem."

Disclaimer: don't forget about the odometer.

I think it could work except my wife seems to be smarter than me. Damn!

 

[Dakota Girl]

I'm not sure where you differentiate between a traditional 4 (power forward) and a 5. Haarms is a 4 that can play as a 5 if needed, which any traditional 4 could, and for many teams does. Other than dunks off of dumps, Haarms shots were ALL perimeter...or at least seemed that way. A 12 to 15 or 18 foot shot that has a high chance of going in is GREAT for a traditional 4. Although Haarm's shots were baseline...I'm guessing he could be effective on the elbows (around FT line ends) which allows an easy pass down low to Haas AND the spacing that allows a pass behind the three point line.

Haarm's does have a perimeter shot, but let's not confuse that with a 7'3" person needing to shoot behind the arc...as THAT situation would be EXTREMELY rare. That would only be due to needing his D inside and having an inability to make hay inside on offense and/or needed for a final shot in the closing seconds. Haarm's greatest value to this team relative to "skill" is his ability to shoot from the perimeter as well as score inside and the initial appearance that Haarm's can dribble and pass a bit. Haarm's is a skilled player more known for his finesse than his power. Without Taylor playing, Haarms typically went against Haas. Had Taylor guarded Haas...perhaps we would have seen Haarm's play almost exclusively on the perimeter?

Haarm's will be groomed as a basketball player. He will develop an inside and outside game and Matt will never stick him all the time with his back to the goal although there will be times it is needed. Matt knows his basketball.

Building off your comments but speaking to Wole comments:
Watch the video of Haarms. You see him catch with his back to the basket usually 12-15 feet out. He then pivots to face the defense before making a jumper or a move.
He is a 4/5 with perimeter skills. That doesn’t mean he does nothing but launch 3’s. I am glad of that fact as well.
I saw something that will be darn hard to guard which is ability from 18 feet all the way to the rim. If he hits threes later, that’s icing.

 

[Dakota Girl]

I guess my definition of a perimeter shooter is different than most. My definition was the ability and willingness to take and make 3 point shots like the guy from Michigan, and Frank the Tank. from UW or Dirk . I sort of expect all centers and power forwards to be able to take and make the 12-15 footers rather than put backs, dunks and lay-ups. . .

I had also thought that when people posted that Haarms could play the 4, that he'd actually be placed in situations where he'd guard guys like V Edwards. What better time and opportunity than in a scrimmage against one of the better 3/4s in the BIG 10?

I fully expected Haarms to hold his own against Haas offensively and defensively. Admittedly, I would expect Haas to be better. but I would have enjoyed seeing the mismatch of Haarms against Edwards offensively, and to see if he could hold his own defensively against a quicker forward. That would have been fun to watch.

the early reports I read and videos I saw were from Haarms playing Euro ball. I'm uncertain what the real level of competition was. Admittedly, that was from several years ago. But he played like a really tall wing rather than typical center.

I'm quite certain that given time and practice, Haarms will be able to extend his shooting range. I just thought he was already there and that his offensive game was more like a wing than a post player.

Admittedly, without Taylor , somebody had to play center against Haas. And despite the height difference, it would have been fun in a scrimmage with nothing at stake to see Ewing or Grady play inside against Haas, and see what Haarms could do against Edwards on the wing. ,

I think your expectation is a bit off. This is a 7’3” 250lb player. Not who you want guarding wings all the time. Vince is not a 4, he just plays one on TV.
Kaminsky, the Michigan kid, and Niwitski are 3 to 5 inches shorter and Nowitski is an NBA hall of famer. Also note that Kaminsky just started to show 3 range late in his junior year.
Relax. He will be what he needs to be and that will change year to year.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Building off your comments but speaking to Wole comments:
Watch the video of Haarms. You see him catch with his back to the basket usually 12-15 feet out. He then pivots to face the defense before making a jumper or a move.
He is a 4/5 with perimeter skills. That doesn’t mean he does nothing but launch 3’s. I am glad of that fact as well.
I saw something that will be darn hard to guard which is ability from 18 feet all the way to the rim. If he hits threes later, that’s icing.

Mid-range game is becoming a lost art, unfortunately.

Granted, it's a scrimmage, but I didn't see anything not to like.

Saw nice potential for pick/pop and as DG stated.....mid-range to the rim. If he stretches that further.....even more potential, more of being a luxury. However, IMO, if MH develops defensively, he could be a really big surprise in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Mid-range game is becoming a lost art, unfortunately.

Granted, it's a scrimmage, but I didn't see anything not to like.

Saw nice potential for pick/pop and as DG stated.....mid-range to the rim. If he stretches that further.....even more potential, more of being a luxury. However, IMO, if MH develops defensively, he could be a really big surprise in the grand scheme of things.

Oh yes, the pick and roll defensive potential is what has me high on Haarms.

 

[boilernuke]

Midrange game seemed to work well for Jajuan. I'm sure Matt and Matt have talked about that.

 

[tjreese]

Building off your comments but speaking to Wole comments:
Watch the video of Haarms. You see him catch with his back to the basket usually 12-15 feet out. He then pivots to face the defense before making a jumper or a move.
He is a 4/5 with perimeter skills. That doesn’t mean he does nothing but launch 3’s. I am glad of that fact as well.
I saw something that will be darn hard to guard which is ability from 18 feet all the way to the rim. If he hits threes later, that’s icing.

don't have to look I actually remember the exact shot on what would be the right elbow facing the basket. He "appears" to have better ball handling skills for many 5's and generally has more range. He may already be able to hit the 3 ball a decent clip...but why at this time? Closer he has the chance to draw fouls on a drive from 15 that he might be too slow from the 3.

All I know is that I like what I see admitting that it was but one game...but that one game verified the agility I saw in warm ups and sitting on the bench last year as well as video previously. No matter what he is 7'3" tall

Oh yes, the pick and roll defensive potential is what has me high on Haarms.

under the right scenario...I could see a Taylor and Haarms with a Nojel and Carsen..and either a Dakota or Vince or PJ also out on the perimeter...assuming of course that Taylor can shoot it in from the perimeter. Two bigs, two agile bigs, two drivers (Nojel/Carsen...and if spacing is allowed...PJ could be there) and at least two currently potential shooters. I admit I'm biased in that I really like to have two bigs...I just like the court balance for that set. Anyway, there are a LOT of possible ways to play these people and as they play themselves into position of playing more time...certain styles will become more common

 

[BoilerDaddy]

don't have to look I actually remember the exact shot on what would be the right elbow facing the basket. He "appears" to have better ball handling skills for many 5's and generally has more range. He may already be able to hit the 3 ball a decent clip...but why at this time? Closer he has the chance to draw fouls on a drive from 15 that he might be too slow from the 3.

All I know is that I like what I see admitting that it was but one game...but that one game verified the agility I saw in warm ups and sitting on the bench last year as well as video previously. No matter what he is 7'3" tall

under the right scenario...I could see a Taylor and Haarms with a Nojel and Carsen..and either a Dakota or Vince or PJ also out on the perimeter...assuming of course that Taylor can shoot it in from the perimeter. Two bigs, two agile bigs, two drivers (Nojel/Carsen...and if spacing is allowed...PJ could be there) and at least two currently potential shooters. I admit I'm biased in that I really like to have two bigs...I just like the court balance for that set. Anyway, there are a LOT of possible ways to play these people and as they play themselves into position of playing more time...certain styles will become more common

That line-up sounds like something John Beilein would play.

 

[tjreese]

That line-up sounds like something John Beilein would play.

Well, I did really like Wilson and Wagner...and irvin helped. I have always like two bigs and three perimeter players. I just like that grouping day in and day out. One thing is for sure....recruiting is a lot better than before budget increases

 

[BoilerAndy]

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/take...crimmages?mc_cid=365ab2eb01&mc_eid=1f689d89fb

Several questions answered here. There will be a lot of nice surprises this year.

 

[punaj]

https://purdue.rivals.com/news/take...crimmages?mc_cid=365ab2eb01&mc_eid=1f689d89fb

Several questions answered here. There will be a lot of nice surprises this year.

“Are you working on zone?” ... Carsen “No.”

 

[BoiledSteel]

“Are you working on zone?” ... Carsen “No.”

Good. It isn't needed here.

 

[BoilerBiker]

One thing is for sure....recruiting is a lot better than before budget increases

did the increase begin in 2011, immediately after painter turned down missouri ?

 

[tjreese]

did the increase begin in 2011, immediately after painter turned down missouri ?

the increase happened during that time and went into effect I assume the next year. If that was 2012, then I assume it helped with the 2014 class which would be juniors that year. The senior class probably were the first to have an expanded budget and the initial effect I believe. Obviously since then it has been in play...