Time to consider B1G expansion again?

[YouSayPotato]

If Texas and Oklahoma go to the SEC, it might be time to reconsider B1G expansion. I'll begin with some observations.

1) Both the ACC Network and the Pac-12 Network are train wrecks.
2) Academics matter - AAU preferred.
3) Both Texas A&M and Mizzou said to be adamantly opposed to Texas joining SEC.
4) Notre Dame isn't joining a conference.

Best option: Texas and Oklahoma if SEC deal fails.
Second best option: Mizzou quits SEC and joins B1G + Colorado quits PAC-12 (low TV revenue and nasty logistics to the West Coast).
Third best option: UVA + UNC
Fourth best option: Georgia Tech (Atlanta TV market) + Clemson (Clemson already grumbling about low TV revenue and they make the most in the AAC).

 

[TMFT]

1) UT & OU to the SEC would be a train wreck.
2) The B1G really shouldn't consider going to 16 teams for football.
3) If the B1G MUST expand, I actually think your 4th best option would be #1 (add a marquee team and a big media market) and your 3rd best option would be #2 (competitive schools with great academics that would also boost B1G basketball big time) although I don't see UNC ever leaving the ACC.
4) IF the ACC would happen to fall apart, Notre Dame's deal with them will go with it, so it's possible to get ND on the B1G calendar but as a football "independent" still, and maybe just grab UNC or Clemson?

 

[Carnival_Barker_for_Truth]

I seem to recall that when the august institutions of Rutgers and Maryland joined the B1G there was reporting that the B1G had approached UT and UNC first. UT and UNC don't make sense from a geographic perspective but from an academic and athletic perspective they make a ton of sense. If UT and OU moving to the SEC kicks off another round of realignment, I suspect the B1G is going to be in an awkward spot to find two more members to get to 16, because the university presidents who have way more sway in the B1G than other conferences (as was on full display with the covid flip-flop) are going to require that the new members fit the conference's academic profile not just add to the athletic profile. The academic issue was why despite Mizzou practically begging to join when Nebraska joined the conference the B1G was not even remotely interested.

 

[Kern County]

I seem to recall that when the august institutions of Rutgers and Maryland joined the B1G there was reporting that the B1G had approached UT and UNC first. UT and UNC don't make sense from a geographic perspective but from an academic and athletic perspective they make a ton of sense. If UT and OU moving to the SEC kicks off another round of realignment, I suspect the B1G is going to be in an awkward spot to find two more members to get to 16, because the university presidents who have way more sway in the B1G than other conferences (as was on full display with the covid flip-flop) are going to require that the new members fit the conference's academic profile not just add to the athletic profile. The academic issue was why despite Mizzou practically begging to join when Nebraska joined the conference the B1G was not even remotely interested.

The BiG wasn’t interested because Mizzou didn’t deliver much of a media “footprint”.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

If Texas and Oklahoma go to the SEC, it might be time to reconsider B1G expansion. I'll begin with some observations.

1) Both the ACC Network and the Pac-12 Network are train wrecks.
2) Academics matter - AAU preferred.
3) Both Texas A&M and Mizzou said to be adamantly opposed to Texas joining SEC.
4) Notre Dame isn't joining a conference.

Best option: Texas and Oklahoma if SEC deal fails.
Second best option: Mizzou quits SEC and joins B1G + Colorado quits PAC-12 (low TV revenue and nasty logistics to the West Coast).
Third best option: UVA + UNC
Fourth best option: Georgia Tech (Atlanta TV market) + Clemson (Clemson already grumbling about low TV revenue and they make the most in the AAC).

Why are those good options to you? You root for Purdue.. where in the f do you think we are getting 6 wins in most seasons now? Who else do you wanna play every year? Alabama? The chiefs? The f man

 

[Carnival_Barker_for_Truth]

The BiG wasn’t interested because Mizzou didn’t deliver much of a media “footprint”.

STL is the 23rd largest media market in the country. Omaha is the 72nd. Missouri has the 18th largest population; Nebraska has the 38th largest population. Based on Delaney's pretty clear desire to add members who would result in BTN ending up on basic cable or the sports add-on package in large markets that would lead to more subscriber fees being paid to BTN (i.e. Rutgers for NYC metro and Maryland for DC) Mizzuo makes more sense. Nebraska may have a larger fan base, but in terms of the economic game the B1G was playing, Mizzou would have brought in way more subscriber fees to BTN. At the time, IU and Iowa were the lowest rated academic schools in the big somewhere around 80. Mizzou was in the 120 range. All 3 of the additions were within spitting distance of IU and Iowa academically. Academics is relevant to B1G expansion in a way it is not for other conferences other than maybe the ACC.

 

[NDAFArly]

STL is the 23rd largest media market in the country. Omaha is the 72nd. Missouri has the 18th largest population; Nebraska has the 38th largest population. Based on Delaney's pretty clear desire to add members who would result in BTN ending up on basic cable or the sports add-on package in large markets that would lead to more subscriber fees being paid to BTN (i.e. Rutgers for NYC metro and Maryland for DC) Mizzuo makes more sense. Nebraska may have a larger fan base, but in terms of the economic game the B1G was playing, Mizzou would have brought in way more subscriber fees to BTN. At the time, IU and Iowa were the lowest rated academic schools in the big somewhere around 80. Mizzou was in the 120 range. All 3 of the additions were within spitting distance of IU and Iowa academically. Academics is relevant to B1G expansion in a way it is not for other conferences other than maybe the ACC.

Disagree.
Nebraska fans stretch to half of Iowa, north Kansas, North & South Dakota. Hardly anyone in St. Louis cares about Mizzou. From an economic standpoint, Nebraska is huge, even though they stink now. On Saturdays, even when they are 2-4, everyone watches the games. The place shuts down when the Huskers are playing. It’s crazy.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

Texas Tech and Oklahoma State please (of the Big 12, ACC has too big of a buyout). Would make Big ten more if a national presence and opening big ten to more recruiting in Texas would be great.

 

[krf3632]

Vanderbilt and Missouri. Neither would win many games in a re-vamped SEC. Nashville is one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and St Louis/KC wouldn't be bad either.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Unc and FSU. Hard pass on schools like mizzou and Kansas.

 

[YouSayPotato]

I seem to recall that when the august institutions of Rutgers and Maryland joined the B1G there was reporting that the B1G had approached UT and UNC first. UT and UNC don't make sense from a geographic perspective but from an academic and athletic perspective they make a ton of sense. If UT and OU moving to the SEC kicks off another round of realignment, I suspect the B1G is going to be in an awkward spot to find two more members to get to 16, because the university presidents who have way more sway in the B1G than other conferences (as was on full display with the covid flip-flop) are going to require that the new members fit the conference's academic profile not just add to the athletic profile. The academic issue was why despite Mizzou practically begging to join when Nebraska joined the conference the B1G was not even remotely interested.

Mizzou balked because they didn't want to 'buy-in' to the BTN while the SEC offered them into the (forthcoming) SEC Network free.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Disagree.
Nebraska fans stretch to half of Iowa, north Kansas, North & South Dakota. Hardly anyone in St. Louis cares about Mizzou. From an economic standpoint, Nebraska is huge, even though they stink now. On Saturdays, even when they are 2-4, everyone watches the games. The place shuts down when the Huskers are playing. It’s crazy.

Nebraska blows

 

[YouSayPotato]

Why are those good options to you? You root for Purdue.. where in the f do you think we are getting 6 wins in most seasons now? Who else do you wanna play every year? Alabama? The chiefs? The f man

Do you want the B1G to bring in WEAKER schools with zero TV market??? Cripe, there are plenty of those to chose from: Cincy, Memphis, Kansas and K State, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor, Houston, WV, Pitt, UConn, Army, Navy, Temple, the entire MAC. Take your pick.

 

[Kern County]

STL is the 23rd largest media market in the country. Omaha is the 72nd. Missouri has the 18th largest population; Nebraska has the 38th largest population. Based on Delaney's pretty clear desire to add members who would result in BTN ending up on basic cable or the sports add-on package in large markets that would lead to more subscriber fees being paid to BTN (i.e. Rutgers for NYC metro and Maryland for DC) Mizzuo makes more sense. Nebraska may have a larger fan base, but in terms of the economic game the B1G was playing, Mizzou would have brought in way more subscriber fees to BTN. At the time, IU and Iowa were the lowest rated academic schools in the big somewhere around 80. Mizzou was in the 120 range. All 3 of the additions were within spitting distance of IU and Iowa academically. Academics is relevant to B1G expansion in a way it is not for other conferences other than maybe the ACC.

I’ll insist already captures a chunk of STL, and UNL and Iowa, to a much lesser extent, have Omaha. Mizzou didn’t get rejected because of academics. They just didn’t bring much to the party revenue wise.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Do you want the B1G to bring in WEAKER schools with zero TV market??? Cripe, there are plenty of those to chose from: Cincy, Memphis, Kansas and K State, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor, Houston, WV, Pitt, UConn, Army, Navy, Temple, the entire MAC. Take your pick.

Yes! I’d rather have weaker schools and have only KIND OF A shit ton of tv money

 

[BoilerBiker]

would texas A&M be upset enough to leave the SEC, possibly join the BigTen

 

[Purdue85]

Mizzou didn’t get rejected because of academics.

Nonsense.

Mizzou is weak academically, only marginally better than Nebraska, which many continue to pontificate over...

 

[purduepat1969]

Nonsense.

Mizzou is weak academically, only marginally better than Nebraska, which many continue to pontificate over...

Agreed. Who the hell wants Mizzou in the Big Ten? They're weak from a sports and academic perspective. I hated the Rutgers addition (made absolutely ZERO sense as a fit into the B1G), but my understanding is they at least brought in some TV revenue.

 

[purduepat1969]

Not sure why Oklahoma would want to join the SEC other than money. They'll never sniff another BCS game in that conference.

 

[YouSayPotato]

would texas A&M be upset enough to leave the SEC, possibly join the BigTen

I don't know but it would be a great addition to the B1G. AAU member, preseason polls have them #2 in the SEC behind Bama, adds Texas to the BTN footprint (population 29 million), #6 nationally in football attendance and it opens up Texas for B1G recruiting.

 

[njm8845]

STL is the 23rd largest media market in the country. Omaha is the 72nd. Missouri has the 18th largest population; Nebraska has the 38th largest population. Based on Delaney's pretty clear desire to add members who would result in BTN ending up on basic cable or the sports add-on package in large markets that would lead to more subscriber fees being paid to BTN (i.e. Rutgers for NYC metro and Maryland for DC) Mizzuo makes more sense. Nebraska may have a larger fan base, but in terms of the economic game the B1G was playing, Mizzou would have brought in way more subscriber fees to BTN. At the time, IU and Iowa were the lowest rated academic schools in the big somewhere around 80. Mizzou was in the 120 range. All 3 of the additions were within spitting distance of IU and Iowa academically. Academics is relevant to B1G expansion in a way it is not for other conferences other than maybe the ACC.

I think you’re mistaken on this.

1. BTN charges different rates not by state, but depending on the market. STL may have already been in the highest tier due to its proximity to Illinois. I know for a fact that people in STL already had access to BTN, it’s just a matter of knowing how much each household was charged.

2. It’s true the last round of expansion was driven in part by market size. With all the cord cutting, the goal is still to get eyeballs, but that is achieved by getting top brands as opposed to big markets. Hence Kans >> Mizzou. Hence Neb >> Pitt.

 

[FirstDownB]

Yes! I’d rather have weaker schools and have only KIND OF A shit ton of tv money

Yeah I don’t get what’s in it for Purdue football adding more powerhouse programs to the conference. Recruiting isn’t going to get a bump. Wins will be harder to get. Conference title dreams will become fantasy. Overall athletic department would get a small financial boost, which is offset by the fact that our conference foes get the same boost. All it seems to benefit is OSU keeping up with Bama. I couldn’t care less about that.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

STL is the 23rd largest media market in the country. Omaha is the 72nd. Missouri has the 18th largest population; Nebraska has the 38th largest population. Based on Delaney's pretty clear desire to add members who would result in BTN ending up on basic cable or the sports add-on package in large markets that would lead to more subscriber fees being paid to BTN (i.e. Rutgers for NYC metro and Maryland for DC) Mizzuo makes more sense. Nebraska may have a larger fan base, but in terms of the economic game the B1G was playing, Mizzou would have brought in way more subscriber fees to BTN. At the time, IU and Iowa were the lowest rated academic schools in the big somewhere around 80. Mizzou was in the 120 range. All 3 of the additions were within spitting distance of IU and Iowa academically. Academics is relevant to B1G expansion in a way it is not for other conferences other than maybe the ACC.

Might have had the B1G network already in the St. Louis and other metro areas on cable and would not get new subscribers!

 

[ghostoffatjack]

It’s about money AND power when the NCAA is set aside by the big football conferences break away!

 

[HoosierTim]

Not sure why Oklahoma would want to join the SEC other than money. They'll never sniff another BCS game in that conference.

In a playoff expansion they would which is likely why this move is happening. And if you can believe it, it’ll help their recruiting even more. Can sell players on now playing in the SEC. A&M moved to the SEC and immediately saw an uptick in recruiting.

 

[Kern County]

Nonsense.

Mizzou is weak academically, only marginally better than Nebraska, which many continue to pontificate over...

That may be true, but that’s not why they were rebuffed.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

The past 2 moves has showed us the priorities is
1. TV markets.
2. Academics
3. Athletics
And geography has some logic to it. no 3 probably doesn’t exist as Rutgers was just plain awful. I think Florida state and Texas tech would meet the top priority but I don’t think geographically Florida state will be defensible. You going to send your volleyball teams to Florida? I think Texas tech is defensible if you pick up Oklahoma state and more or less have the central part of the country covered. Those would be my favorite picks. I think UNC and Georgia tech would be more realistic.

 

[Purdue85]

Agreed. Who the hell wants Mizzou in the Big Ten? They're weak from a sports and academic perspective. I hated the Rutgers addition (made absolutely ZERO sense as a fit into the B1G), but my understanding is they at least brought in some TV revenue.

Rutgers' academic ranking/reputation is respectable. Athletic (football, basketball) isn't historically much to get excited about, for sure. They have brought in more exposure to the NYC/east coast market.

 

[Purdue85]

That may be true, but that’s not why they were rebuffed.

It's not that it "may be true", it is true, and it is absolutely one of the reasons.

 

[Kern County]

It's not that it "may be true", it is true, and it is absolutely one of the reasons.

Not really, because it would’ve prevented Nebraska from joining. Mizzou didn’t make it because they couldn’t deliver tv eyeballs. That’s the absolute reasoning behind Delany’s decision to bring in Maryland and Rutgers, and it was a big reason, along with a national football following, to being in the Cornhuskers. Illinois captured enough of the STL market and Nebraska enough of the KC market. Mizzou delivered none of that, which is why JD took a pass. The academics weren’t great, but they aren’t much different than UNL’s. It was always about kicking in money, and Mizzou couldn’t do that.

 

[Purdue80]

With the NCAA in decline, I agree with another poster that the power conferences should be positioning themselves for a post-NCAA world.
So let’s not think about just 16 teams in the Big, but rather 18 or 20. Think academics and athletics tied together with brand. Geography and population density would be complementary considerations. And don’t worry about which conference the schools are currently members of — be strategic and be bold.
With this perspective, I would go after the following schools (in no particular order) and take the first four or six that commit:
North Carolina
Virginia
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Texas A&M
Notre Dame
Duke
Vanderbilt

From an alumni and viewership standpoint, the Big would then be a national conference broadcast on every network – current and emerging – in the country and beyond. The money and exposure would be unbelievable and extremely difficult to compete with by any other conference.
And think how recruiting would improve for virtually every school given the NIL situation and the exposure that athletes would receive in the Big.
I just don’t have confidence, unfortunately, that the Big’s commissioner has the capacity to pull this off based on his first year’s performance. So the presidents and A.D.s are going to need to take the lead on this.

 

[BoilerBiker]

With the NCAA in decline, I agree with another poster that the power conferences should be positioning themselves for a post-NCAA world.
So let’s not think about just 16 teams in the Big, but rather 18 or 20. Think academics and athletics tied together with brand. Geography and population density would be complementary considerations. And don’t worry about which conference the schools are currently members of — be strategic and be bold.
With this perspective, I would go after the following schools (in no particular order) and take the first four or six that commit:
North Carolina
Virginia
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Texas A&M
Notre Dame
Duke
Vanderbilt

From an alumni and viewership standpoint, the Big would then be a national conference broadcast on every network – current and emerging – in the country and beyond. The money and exposure would be unbelievable and extremely difficult to compete with by any other conference.
And think how recruiting would improve for virtually every school given the NIL situation and the exposure that athletes would receive in the Big.
I just don’t have confidence, unfortunately, that the Big’s commissioner has the capacity to pull this off based on his first year’s performance. So the presidents and A.D.s are going to need to take the lead on this.

if they go to 20(+), maybe the big10 and pac12 just join together as a national super-conference, with a few like oregon st, arizona st, etc possibly left out

 

[purduepat1969]

In a playoff expansion they would which is likely why this move is happening. And if you can believe it, it’ll help their recruiting even more. Can sell players on now playing in the SEC. A&M moved to the SEC and immediately saw an uptick in recruiting.

And A&M hasn't sniffed anything. Sorry, but Oklahoma won't compete with Alabama, GA, LSU, and Florida.

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

With the NCAA in decline, I agree with another poster that the power conferences should be positioning themselves for a post-NCAA world.
So let’s not think about just 16 teams in the Big, but rather 18 or 20. Think academics and athletics tied together with brand. Geography and population density would be complementary considerations. And don’t worry about which conference the schools are currently members of — be strategic and be bold.
With this perspective, I would go after the following schools (in no particular order) and take the first four or six that commit:
North Carolina
Virginia
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Texas A&M
Notre Dame
Duke
Vanderbilt

From an alumni and viewership standpoint, the Big would then be a national conference broadcast on every network – current and emerging – in the country and beyond. The money and exposure would be unbelievable and extremely difficult to compete with by any other conference.
And think how recruiting would improve for virtually every school given the NIL situation and the exposure that athletes would receive in the Big.
I just don’t have confidence, unfortunately, that the Big’s commissioner has the capacity to pull this off based on his first year’s performance. So the presidents and A.D.s are going to need to take the lead on this.

Wow clemson and notre dame would be awesome but I think it’s more realistic for Georgia tech and UNC

 

[PrintersRowBoiler]

With the NCAA in decline, I agree with another poster that the power conferences should be positioning themselves for a post-NCAA world.
So let’s not think about just 16 teams in the Big, but rather 18 or 20. Think academics and athletics tied together with brand. Geography and population density would be complementary considerations. And don’t worry about which conference the schools are currently members of — be strategic and be bold.
With this perspective, I would go after the following schools (in no particular order) and take the first four or six that commit:
North Carolina
Virginia
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Texas A&M
Notre Dame
Duke
Vanderbilt

From an alumni and viewership standpoint, the Big would then be a national conference broadcast on every network – current and emerging – in the country and beyond. The money and exposure would be unbelievable and extremely difficult to compete with by any other conference.
And think how recruiting would improve for virtually every school given the NIL situation and the exposure that athletes would receive in the Big.
I just don’t have confidence, unfortunately, that the Big’s commissioner has the capacity to pull this off based on his first year’s performance. So the presidents and A.D.s are going to need to take the lead on this.

ncaa is in decline? News to me. They had a rough 2020 but so did all sports. NFL was the only major sport that saw a smaller decline than college football.

 

[NDAFArly]

ncaa is in decline? News to me. They had a rough 2020 but so did all sports. NFL was the only major sport that saw a smaller decline than college football.

Yes, NCAA is in decline. Their own President (who is a moron) has just recently questioned the need for the NCAA. They NEED money. And with a large number of University Presidents & Trustees now questioning the need of the NCAA, the money is disappearing.

 

[Purdue85]

Not really, because it would’ve prevented Nebraska from joining. Mizzou didn’t make it because they couldn’t deliver tv eyeballs. That’s the absolute reasoning behind Delany’s decision to bring in Maryland and Rutgers, and it was a big reason, along with a national football following, to being in the Cornhuskers. Illinois captured enough of the STL market and Nebraska enough of the KC market. Mizzou delivered none of that, which is why JD took a pass. The academics weren’t great, but they aren’t much different than UNL’s. It was always about kicking in money, and Mizzou couldn’t do that.

It's not "not really", or that it "may be true", or anything else.

That gap absolutely was a part of the equation.

We've dissected Nebraska's entry ad nauseum.

 

[Kern County]

It's not "not really", or that it "may be true", or anything else.

That gap absolutely was a part of the equation.

We've dissected Nebraska's entry ad nauseum.

Lol. The academic gap wasn’t the issue. It was about tv eyeballs.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

if they go to 20(+), maybe the big10 and pac12 just join together as a national super-conference, with a few like oregon st, arizona st, etc possibly left out

Lol you don’t think Purdue would be left out and that the goal of all this is to leave schools like Purdue out of a potential super conference ?

 

[BoilerBiker]

Lol you don’t think Purdue would be left out and that the goal of all this is to leave schools like Purdue out of a potential super conference ?

agree, definitely a sad reality.

some mention a relegation type structure like soccer, but i dont see how that could really be as successful here.