Thought about Burke's commitment to Hazell
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5 wins should be our minimum expectation. You and I are clearly not aligned on the quality of the staff. I think the staff quality under Hazell is vastly improved over what Hope had. I think this is the make or break year for Shoop. Virtually every fan base hates their OC; I give Shoop more leeway than most here. But if anyone is on the hot seat this year, it has to be him.
And Drew Brees was standing on the sideline learning the college game like a freshman QB should've been doing. Playing freshman QBs is almost always a recipe for disaster. Breaking that cycle by red shirting Sindelar is a big priority for me.
I will agree here. Definitely need to RS him. If you can't find a solution in Blough or Appleby (2 elite 11 kids) to win 5-6 games at this point, its time for the staff to move on.
I think we are up to about 4 of us on here officially excited! One month from today!
Sorry but I am beyond blindly following just to follow. I've watched PU football for many years. Without a doubt this offensive scheme is the most unoriginal predictable unexciting scheme I've ever seen - in an era when innovation in the game is at its peak.
Anyone want to predict the first offensive play of the season? My 16 year old will call it correctly from the formation - again.
Ad me to this list. Otis Armstrong was in the backfield when I got on board. Personally I would be thrilled with 5 wins and competitive each weekend. BTFU
Other than your extreem optimism, what significant changes, for the positive, have you seen, that would begin to make you think this team was headed in the right/winning direction?
1. Recruiting?
2. Team moral?
3. Different strategy on offense, defense or special teams?
4. Different OC, DC, or special teams coach?
5. New approach/basketball on grass/Brees comming back?
6. It can't get any worse?
Just because some see Purdue football's glass half empty, doesn't mean they want to see the team, Hazell or anyone else associated with this team or university lose. Maybe we're just a little more realistic than you & a few others? I'd love nothing more than for Hazell & co. to go undefeated this season, but reality says, if they win 4 games overall, I'm shocked, but, unless Hazell gets at least 3 B1G wins, I'd fire him after the last game this season. I believe Hazell, Hope, Tiller, & all the rest were brought here to win B1G games [not necessairly non conference games/as opposed to non conference games], compete [eventually] for a B1G championship, & be competative, overall, in & out of conference. I care a lot less about how many non conference games we win, than how many B1G games we win. When in this team's long & storied history, has a Purdue football team been less competative than the current team? The sooner you get the bad wood removed/out, the sooner the new wood/ growth can begin. I would give Hazell until the last game of the season to stay on board/win games, then, no 3 B1G wins, good luck next stop.
Because I love Purdue/Purdue sports/Purdue football, I want this tam to do the right/right for Purdue thing, a. s. a. p. Of course, I'd have given Hazell the ultimatum/3 B1G wins or else directive, immediately after the last game of last season, so there was no doubt about exactly [where he stands] what was/is expected of him/he had to do this season, to keep this/his job. It's a business, a rotten, dirty, cruel & hard world out there, but people must be held accountable, no matter who they are. Hazell should have been given fair warning after the last game of last season. I seriously doubt that happened. If that's the circumstances, it's harder to law down the law to him now [not having been forewarned]. If that's the case, tell him now, exactly what is expected of him/how many wins/B1G wins, to keep his job. The sooner you start holding people accountable, usually, the quicker you get positive results, one way or the other/old or new coach.
The longer you wait on somthing like this, the harder it is to get back up, turn things around & start the new recruiting, philosophy & approach, a new coach/administration needs to be their best. Last thing you want to do, is build a losing mentality/ora/atmosphere around your work/team/environment. Once again, I hope we win every game, reguardless of who the head coach, AD, president or BOT is. Go Purdue!!! Win them all & shut us up!!! Win 4 or 5 & keep the squeeky wheels quiet. Win 3 & hope for the best/miracle?
Other than your extreem optimism, what significant changes, for the positive, have you seen, that would begin to make you think this team was headed in the right/winning direction?
1. Recruiting?
2. Team moral?
3. Different strategy on offense, defense or special teams?
4. Different OC, DC, or special teams coach?
5. New approach/basketball on grass/Brees comming back?
6. It can't get any worse?
Just because some see Purdue football's glass half empty, doesn't mean they want to see the team, Hazell or anyone else associated with this team or university lose. Maybe we're just a little more realistic than you & a few others? I'd love nothing more than for Hazell & co. to go undefeated this season, but reality says, if they win 4 games overall, I'm shocked, but, unless Hazell gets at least 3 B1G wins, I'd fire him after the last game this season. I believe Hazell, Hope, Tiller, & all the rest were brought here to win B1G games [not necessairly non conference games/as opposed to non conference games], compete [eventually] for a B1G championship, & be competative, overall, in & out of conference. I care a lot less about how many non conference games we win, than how many B1G games we win. When in this team's long & storied history, has a Purdue football team been less competative than the current team? The sooner you get the bad wood removed/out, the sooner the new wood/ growth can begin. I would give Hazell until the last game of the season to stay on board/win games, then, no 3 B1G wins, good luck next stop.
Because I love Purdue/Purdue sports/Purdue football, I want this tam to do the right/right for Purdue thing, a. s. a. p. Of course, I'd have given Hazell the ultimatum/3 B1G wins or else directive, immediately after the last game of last season, so there was no doubt about exactly [where he stands] what was/is expected of him/he had to do this season, to keep this/his job. It's a business, a rotten, dirty, cruel & hard world out there, but people must be held accountable, no matter who they are. Hazell should have been given fair warning after the last game of last season. I seriously doubt that happened. If that's the circumstances, it's harder to law down the law to him now [not having been forewarned]. If that's the case, tell him now, exactly what is expected of him/how many wins/B1G wins, to keep his job. The sooner you start holding people accountable, usually, the quicker you get positive results, one way or the other/old or new coach.
The longer you wait on somthing like this, the harder it is to get back up, turn things around & start the new recruiting, philosophy & approach, a new coach/administration needs to be their best. Last thing you want to do, is build a losing mentality/ora/atmosphere around your work/team/environment. Once again, I hope we win every game, reguardless of who the head coach, AD, president or BOT is. Go Purdue!!! Win them all & shut us up!!! Win 4 or 5 & keep the squeeky wheels quiet. Win 3 & hope for the best/miracle?
I'm in the camp that believes we should let this season play out and then determine what needs to be done (though we have very little say in that regard). I've always thought any coach should get at least 3 years to present his bonafides to administration and fans (I am aware that a poorly negotiated contract may give Hazell 4 years because of a prohibitive buyout, 1.5 million per remaining season as I understand it.)
I would also say that the previous two seasons, and really the last two games, have not instilled a lot of confidence in me. With two weeks to prepare for a mediocre Northwestern team at Ross Ade Purdue played one of the sloppiest games I've seen as a fan (granted I enrolled in the fall of 1999 so I've certainly not seen as many games as some of the more veteran posters) and got embarrased. They followed that game up with a completely unimaginative, uninspired game plan against a terrible 0-7 B1G IU team and lost. When IU pulled some imaginative trick plays in the second half Purdue seemed like they thought they could win by simply playing straight up vanilla football which wasn't the case. Tiller's teams could play vanilla football against less talented teams and win. That's simply not the case anymore because of a talent deficiency.
I want to see an offense that is innovative an exploits opponents weaknesses. A defense that is aggressive (you can blitz on third and long occasionally damn it!) and a team that plays tough fundamentally sound football for 4 quarters (and beyond). I would think that 5 wins is probably the minimum amount of wins to feel like a 4th year is warranted but 6 or even 7 would start to lift some of the malaise around this program.
I'll see you all at Ross Ade.
I would also say that the previous two seasons, and really the last two games, have not instilled a lot of confidence in me. With two weeks to prepare for a mediocre Northwestern team at Ross Ade Purdue played one of the sloppiest games I've seen as a fan (granted I enrolled in the fall of 1999 so I've certainly not seen as many games as some of the more veteran posters) and got embarrased. They followed that game up with a completely unimaginative, uninspired game plan against a terrible 0-7 B1G IU team and lost. When IU pulled some imaginative trick plays in the second half Purdue seemed like they thought they could win by simply playing straight up vanilla football which wasn't the case. Tiller's teams could play vanilla football against less talented teams and win. That's simply not the case anymore because of a talent deficiency.
I want to see an offense that is innovative an exploits opponents weaknesses. A defense that is aggressive (you can blitz on third and long occasionally damn it!) and a team that plays tough fundamentally sound football for 4 quarters (and beyond). I would think that 5 wins is probably the minimum amount of wins to feel like a 4th year is warranted but 6 or even 7 would start to lift some of the malaise around this program.
I'll see you all at Ross Ade.
If the team looks better overall and wins a couple more games (even if they don't qualify for a bowl game), I think Hazell and co. should get at least one more season. Hope was allowed 4 years and I think Hazell should get that as well in this hypothetical. If it's another 3 wins or less and the team just looks really bad, I think a new staff will be needed at that point and that Burke should either resign or be forced out by the BOT.
Team wins 4 or less, and BURKE needs to be terminated immediately, and the new AD decides whether CDH stays or goes. Brian cardinal would be my choice, with a green eyeshade guy like Burke as his assistant.
Lets play the season before we fire anyone… Being disappointed in past performances is understandable, but lets not burn down the house with everyone in it.
Agreed, but like any good business, you hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. Like Burke does with coaches, Daniels and the BOT need to have a list of potential ADs ready to go.
reed
BBG - I think that you are overrating the talent level that Hazell has had to work with. As an example, look at the impact that the Sean Robinson injury had last year on D and the Anthrop injury had on offense.
I am hoping that the offensive line gels this season, Anthrop is back to 100%, Yancey gets back on track, and either Appleby or Blough grabs the reigns and elevates the QB level of this team. I don't know if it will happen, but I think a turn-around is possible.
As far as being happy with 5 wins, the program is down and 5 wins would be nice progress, but just as importantly, I want Purdue to look like it belongs on the field with the above average teams in the conference for the first time since Hope's first year. It's not the end game, but that would give me optimism for the future.
"... I think you are overrating the talent level that Hazell has had to work woth."
Who's job is it to bring the talent here to win games? All teams get injuries, & must properly prepair for them. In the two seasons Hazell had been here, what has he done or accomplished to make you think he can or will begin to turn this ship around? I hope Coach Hazell wins every game he coaches here. I hope all the Purdue coaches win all of their games they coach for Purdue. What is Coach Hazell doing different this season, [to turn things around] that he didn't do the first two seasons? I hope the powers that be, tell Coach Hazell now, if by your last game this season, you don't win at least three B1G games, your services will no longer be needed here. I like the fact Coach Hazell is young, full of enthusiasm, hope, & determination, but he looks like a deer in the headlights, over his head, & looking for answers right now. He needs to get his feet wet, learning done & experience, at a lower level, [as a D1, prime time head coach] & not at the expense of Purdue football. I wish him well, all the best & success beyond his wildest dreams, but if he doesn't start showing real positive [winning, on field] results this season, he should be terminated, at season's end, unfortunately. This hill/mountain appears too great, at this time, although I hope I'm wrong.
I had your optomism, extreemly positive outlook & vision, two seasons ago, somewhat less the start of last season, & by the time last season was over, so was 90% of that original vision, hope & dreaming, I had when Hazell first came here. I think we all hope he turns it around this season, before his time here runs out.
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What in my post makes you think that I am extremely optimistic. If I was extremely optimistic, I wouldn't be encouraged if Purdue gets 5 wins. Frankly, I don't know if we'll see the beginnings of a turn-around or not.
To the talent point, I think that we can a agree that last season there were very few difference makers among the senior, junior, and redshirt sophomore classes that Hazell inherited. I'm not saying that Hazell's recruiting classes have been overwhelming either, but when you consider that he only had a few months to put together his first class, we don't really know what he has recruited.
There isn't an easy solution here. I would agree the Hazell needs to show progress this season. But, I haven't written him off as a coach. I am just looking for signs that he has a chance to turn this thing around.
,
Believe me, nobody hopes I'm wrong about this situation more than me. This season should be his definitive season at Purdue, & possibly for years to come? Let's hope he gets it going in the right direction, has hired the proper personel, made the right moves, brought in the right recruits & makes doubters like me wrong. Go Hazell/Purdue Boilermakers!!! I do believe it [usually] takes a minimum of at least three seasons, before real, on field, positive, changes, progress & results should be easily observable. We'll know a lot more at the end of this season, one way or the other.
Believe me, nobody hopes I'm wrong about this situation more than me. This season should be his definitive season at Purdue, & possibly for years to come? Let's hope he gets it going in the right direction, has hired the proper personel, made the right moves, brought in the right recruits & makes doubters like me wrong. Go Hazell/Purdue Boilermakers!!! I do believe it [usually] takes a minimum of at least three seasons, before real, on field, positive, changes, progress & results should be easily observable. We'll know a lot more at the end of this season, one way or the other.
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Fair enough, I am more in the camp of "prove it on the field" than anything else right now. Simply because this story seems to be the same each year (injuries, what they had to work with, etc) and the next season is supposed to be better only to have it fall flat. And that didn't start with CDH either mind you.. so he sort of is behind the 8 ball because people have been frustrated with this football program for quite some time.
I truly .. truly hope things do turnaround, I like CDH as a person, but I'm not sold on Shoop at all and another terrible season might just do this entire staff in.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I agree that the entire staff has a lot to prove, but I also look what Hazell is trying to build and what he started with and can see why it will take time.
Danny Hope spent a high percentage of his recruiting resources recruiting fast players from Florida and Georgia that the SEC wasn't interested in. His offense relied on quick passes because there was no time to throw downfield. His linebackers were not much bigger than safeties. They could run, but they couldn't tackle. Consequently, Purdue was athletic enough to win some games, but completely unable to stop big physical running backs or sustain drives against defenses with big athletic fronts. Hazell inherited an awful offensive line that was completely inadequate for his pro style offenses and a group of small undersized linebackers. One positive that I see is that it appears that he is transforming both units into groups that can be successful with his more physical style of play.
Defensive line is still a big issue, IMO. Hope had the luxury of starting 3 NFL defensive linemen in his first season in 2009, and the defensive line carried that team in a lot of ways, but he never was able to replace that talent. A Ryan Kerrigan or KK Short would help out Hazell's defense immensely, so hopefully somebody can emerge as a difference maker. There are some guys who look the part, but it would be nice to see someone (maybe Robinson when he returns) step up as an edge rusher or difference maker, inside.
I guess what I am trying to say is that the jury is still out on Hazell, but I think I see what he is trying to do and I haven't given up on him yet.
Agree 100%. Not to sound like a homer but CDH has changed the culture and improved the team's toughness. He inherited a mess and the worst is behind us. If not, I say Burke should go and bring back Spack who should have been hired instead of hopeless Hope.
And actually I agree with you on all your points. I haven't given up as of yet either however, if this season tanks that will change.
Six wins is doable and another 3 or 4 win season will start to really make me question. Right now as I said I am cautiously optimistic and want to see proof on the field first, but I am not confident in Shoop at all and am waiting to see on defense at this point. I think with the right staff CDH can be uber successful, but I am just not sure he has that... yet.
I'm excited to get this season going, simply because football is my favorite sport and we will have a lot of questions answered in short order.
What signs of change are you seeing? I'm not angry and not asking for any changes now, but I see mainly lower quality talent coming in, some off field problems from one of our best young players and a complete lack of creativity from the offense. Seriously, what positive signs do you see?
Bring back spack as AD? Never thought of that, but maybe not a bad idea. I like cardinal and Quinn also. Or maybe you meant as coach?
Yes I was referring to Spack as coach if CDH doesn't come through. With that being said, I want CDH to succeed and see glimmers of hope.
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