The shear mechanics of it are mere mind boggling...

[woggy718]

Painter has one hell of a problem on his hands the more I think about it. How on earth does he put together this lineup. Would you all agree that positions 3-5 are locked for the starting 5?

3 - Edwards
4 - Biggie
5 - Hammons

Now, will Painter not start the reigning B1G defensive POY? So That means he would either play the 2 or the point and since he's not a consistent threat from deep, I can't see him playing the two over Stephens or Mathias. So by default, do you run Davis at the point? But that's not his best position when we have the likes of Hill.

Now, granted, these are great problems to have and a lot of coaches dream of having these types of problems.

I know this conversation has been hashed and rehashed but it's the offseason and we need SOMETHING to talk about besides other teams off season arrests.

 

[BBG]

Probably depends a lot on matching up with the opponent on who plays.

The way that Davis plays and leads this team, if he has to sit or not start I have a feeling he would be okay with it if it will benefit the team.

 

[dwhitebash11]

Painter has one hell of a problem on his hands the more I think about it. How on earth does he put together this lineup. Would you all agree that positions 3-5 are locked for the starting 5?

3 - Edwards
4 - Biggie
5 - Hammons

Now, will Painter not start the reigning B1G defensive POY? So That means he would either play the 2 or the point and since he's not a consistent threat from deep, I can't see him playing the two over Stephens or Mathias. So by default, do you run Davis at the point? But that's not his best position when we have the likes of Hill.

Now, granted, these are great problems to have and a lot of coaches dream of having these types of problems.

I know this conversation has been hashed and rehashed but it's the offseason and we need SOMETHING to talk about besides other teams off season arrests.

After seeing the way RD shot the ball towards the end of the season last year, I wouldn't be opposed to him playing the 2. He may not be one of our top shooters, ala Cline, Mathias, Stephens, but he has the most confidence in his shot according to what we seen last year, and the results showed.


I find it hard to leave the 3 mentioned out of the starting lineup, but I also find it hard to leave RD out of the lineup just as much. I wouldn't mind going with a true PG for the last spot depending on matchups, like Hill/Thompson, but again, I also wouldn't be opposed to throwing Mathias in at the final spot just to space the floor a little more offensively, and he's probably the best decision maker we have on our roster, depending on the matchup.

 

[purduefan101]

I don't think Edwards is locked into the lineup. I would say that Davis is more locked in than anybody else. To be honest, I would say Mathias is more locked in than Edwards. Edwards has more versatility than anyone else on the roster. He can play the 1(in a pinch), 2(when we go big), 3(his natural position), and a stretch 4. I think that is an invaluable piece coming off a bench.

With all that said, I'd be happy to see him start, but as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see our best players play the most minutes and I really don't care who starts. If this team can embrace that, We will be very, VERY dangerous.

 

[boilerup6]

I agree that Edwards, Swanigan, and Hammons will probably be the starting frontcourt. However, Painter could also entertain the idea of bringing Vince Edwards off the bench. His versatility would be extremely valuable:

- come in for Davis and play the 3 spot
- come in for Swanigan and play the stretch 4
- or he could even come in for Hammons and play the 4, while Swanigan moves to the 5 (which CS doesn't want to do too often, but a few minutes per game could be good)

One guy being able to sub in for three different starters is a valuable tool for Coach Painter to have in his back pocket.

 

[Chuchumutha]

Vince will start and likely lead the team in minutes. I see Hill, Mathias, Vince, Biggie, AJ as starters with Ray, Stephens first off the bench subbing for Mathias and Biggie (Vince would slide down to the 4) Minutes for those seven guys will be pretty even with Haas and PJ next. Having Mathias and Vince (and Biggie) start gives you your best passing unit and bringing Ray and Kendall in off the bench gives you instant instant offense and defense. Oh, the possibilities!

 

[woggy718]

The more I think about this, I think VE or RD are going to be coming off the bench. I believe they will play equal minutes but one is going to have to come off the bench.

Does anyone foresee a situation during a game where Hammons and Biggie split time At the 4? Haas and Taylor split the 5?

 

[BoilerDaddy]

After seeing the way RD shot the ball towards the end of the season last year, I wouldn't be opposed to him playing the 2. He may not be one of our top shooters, ala Cline, Mathias, Stephens, but he has the most confidence in his shot according to what we seen last year, and the results showed.


I find it hard to leave the 3 mentioned out of the starting lineup, but I also find it hard to leave RD out of the lineup just as much. I wouldn't mind going with a true PG for the last spot depending on matchups, like Hill/Thompson, but again, I also wouldn't be opposed to throwing Mathias in at the final spot just to space the floor a little more offensively, and he's probably the best decision maker we have on our roster, depending on the matchup.

I wouldn't label Davis as a three point shooter quite yet. He's serviceable, but he has never shot better than 30.3% for a season. He's a good option to shoot threes in rhythm later in the shot clock, but his strength is attacking the rim and getting to the line. The better that Swanigan can operate away from the basket, the better for Davis.

Listening to Mathias, he was dealing with a lot of issues last season starting with his mono. I don't think we've seen the real Mathias yet. I still think that there's a very good chance that he'll spend substantial time at the one and I think he'll prove to be an excellent shooter this season. If healthy, I think he and Stephens should both top 40% from three.

 

[BBG]

Does anyone foresee a situation during a game where Hammons and Biggie split time At the 4? Haas and Taylor split the 5?

Can't say as I would ever expect to see AJH at the 4 in any situation. Not with Taylor or even VE being able to play the 4.

Man, this is a nice "problem" to have, isn't it

 

[BoilerDeac]

I wouldn't label Davis as a three point shooter quite yet. He's serviceable, but he has never shot better than 30.3% for a season. He's a good option to shoot threes in rhythm later in the shot clock, but his strength is attacking the rim and getting to the line. The better that Swanigan can operate away from the basket, the better for Davis.

Listening to Mathias, he was dealing with a lot of issues last season starting with his mono. I don't think we've seen the real Mathias yet. I still think that there's a very good chance that he'll spend substantial time at the one and I think he'll prove to be an excellent shooter this season. If healthy, I think he and Stephens should both top 40% from three.

Both Dakota and Kendall shooting over 40% would be 3 would be incredible. Hummel and E'twaun both only did that once each, I believe. Then again, with the inside presence Purdue has, Dakota and Kendall should get some pretty wide open looks.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

It still amazes me how some people actually think the 3-time captain of the team, the returning DPOY, and vocal leader of the team will not start his final season as a senior. Amazing.

 

[proudopete]

It still amazes me how some people actually think the 3-time captain of the team, the returning DPOY, and vocal leader of the team will not start his final season as a senior. Amazing.

It reminds me of how people thought he should sit during his sophomore year. I can see him doing it for the team. But I don't see Painter doing it at all. He knows who turned out season around last year. Ray will play plenty.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

It reminds me of how people thought he should sit during his sophomore year. I can see him doing it for the team. But I don't see Painter doing it at all. He knows who turned out season around last year. Ray will play plenty.

Yep, and his junior year, now his senior year.

 

[bnsummers]

CMP will be earning his multi-million $ salary just trying to figure out how to use all the talented pieces on this team. As I get older, I start wishing time would slow done. Right now I wish we could fast forward a few months and get BB season started.....

 

[mathboy]

Purdue will be a dangerous team next year. Obviously we have the size to pound the ball inside. That is probably where we will start and end games. People also forget how dangerous Smootherman can be along the baseline, and we have yet to see the real Taylor emerge (he might not emerge this year).

Regardless of the front line, with Stephens, Mathias and Cline, we also have the capability to bury an opponent with the 3-ball. Stephens started last year, leading the team in scoring, and I bet he picks up where he left off. A healthy Mathias could also be a revelation. I guarantee you that someone like Cline (best pure shooter in his class) would be a featured player on our team a couple years back, and now he seems to have a much lower profile amoung the fans.

This team has raw firepower. Too bad we can't put all 10 guys on the court at the same time.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

It still amazes me how some people actually think the 3-time captain of the team, the returning DPOY, and vocal leader of the team will not start his final season as a senior. Amazing.

He'll play a lot of minutes and that's what matters. If Painter decides not to start all three of Davis, Edwards, and Swanigan, a very good forward isn't going to start, but all 3 will play big minutes. My guess is that Swanigan will start, but that Edwards and Davis will lead the team in minutes, even with one of them coming off the bench.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

He'll play a lot of minutes and that's what matters. If Painter decides not to start all three of Davis, Edwards, and Swanigan, a very good forward isn't going to start, but all 3 will play big minutes. My guess is that Swanigan will start, but that Edwards and Davis will lead the team in minutes, even with one of them coming off the bench.

Davis is and has always been a guard. That is his natural position. He was forced to play at forward.

 

[Chuchumutha]

He'll play a lot of minutes and that's what matters. If Painter decides not to start all three of Davis, Edwards, and Swanigan, a very good forward isn't going to start, but all 3 will play big minutes. My guess is that Swanigan will start, but that Edwards and Davis will lead the team in minutes, even with one of them coming off the bench.

Bingo!

 

[PU pit bull]

I say start the worst five, then after they get the lead......bring in the starters for the crucial throat punch. Many cries for "mommy" will be heard by the opposition. And of course, once the game ends, have Todd Foster jump all over their logo at center court. Yeah, no mercy...........total domination.

 

[gelesen]

It still amazes me how some people actually think the 3-time captain of the team, the returning DPOY, and vocal leader of the team will not start his final season as a senior. Amazing.

I've said this before, Davis will likely play less minutes this season but be more effective and more valuable and may not start.

 

[BoilerinLouisville]

Davis will lead the team in minutes this year; we are still a defensive minded team and he is the best wing/perimeter defender in the conference. The best defensive big man also happens to be on this team....
He will play a combination through the game from the 1-3 positions. He is our coach on the floor, our spark, our Mr. do anything to get the win, that's why he will lead in minutes.

 

[Sennsational1]

It's not who starts but who finishes that matters. Davis will finish games for sure!!!

So if Cline, Mathias and Stephens all came off the bench at once what would that do to the defense? It would be a total game plan change for the other team. Even if for a few possessions.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Davis is and has always been a guard. That is his natural position. He was forced to play at forward.

Why do you say guard has always been his natural position? His height?

I sometimes get confused when people talk about natural position. I certainly don't think that Davis has an ideal guard skill set or ideal guard quickness, but I do think that he presents a match-up problem for guards with his tough, gritty, physical play. The problem with playing him at guard at Purdue is that he doesn't provide balance for a front line that is going to be attacking in the paint, more often than not.

I think that Painter will have one of his shooters on the floor almost all the time. Davis may spend some of his time at guard, but I think that he'll spend a lot more time at the 3.

 

[laguna1]

Painter has one hell of a problem on his hands the more I think about it. How on earth does he put together this lineup. Would you all agree that positions 3-5 are locked for the starting 5?

3 - Edwards
4 - Biggie
5 - Hammons

Now, will Painter not start the reigning B1G defensive POY? So That means he would either play the 2 or the point and since he's not a consistent threat from deep, I can't see him playing the two over Stephens or Mathias. So by default, do you run Davis at the point? But that's not his best position when we have the likes of Hill.

Now, granted, these are great problems to have and a lot of coaches dream of having these types of problems.

I know this conversation has been hashed and rehashed but it's the offseason and we need SOMETHING to talk about besides other teams off season arrests.

Starters really don't matter at all IMO. Our core 4 guys that will determine the year's success are AJ, Biggie, Ray and Vince. Others, especially shooters, are also important of course, but they are somewhat interchangeable.

Painter would always say last year that in order for us to be successful AJ and Ray had to play well. Add Biggie and Vince to that this year in order for us to be very successful.

We have a luxury this year in that we'll probably only need 2 or 3 of them to have good games in order to win. On the road against good teams that dynamic would change but the point is we should have the abilitity to win at just about any given time.

 

[Bob Sienicki]

I know the idea of "platoon" basketball seems out of favor after UK's end-of-season meltdown, but Purdue could have the depth, and team-first mentality to give it a real shot.

Almost all teams, when they sub, see somewhat of a drop off in both production and efficiency. The idea is to give their starters a blow. And when one team pulls their starters, the opponent will often follow suit out of necessity.

We have the roster to not only give starters a blow, but to essentially maintain and even increase our production and efficiency - especially against weaker subs from opponents. That is not to say we should simply play nothing but our 2nd best players in our sub "line."

I could easily see a starting lineup of Hammons, Swanigan, Edwards, Mathias, and Hill, with a 2nd line platoon of Haas, Taylor, RD, Stephens, and PJ. Some thoughts about those lineups:

1) each lineup would feature some inexperience (and/or unfamiliarity) with experienced, proven players. In the starting lineup, Swanigan would benefit from Hammons' presence, while Mathias' steady play and passing would help balance out any hiccups by playing Hill as starting PG. In the 2nd line, Taylor would benefit from Haas' presence, while the experience and proven performance brought by RD and Stephens would be extremely helpful to PJ's continued development.

2) each lineup would feature proven scorers, Hammons, Edwards, and Mathias as starters, Stephens and RD in the 2nd line.

3) in some ways, the defense of each lineup would be complementary - Hammons and Swanigan would allow both Mathias and Hill to play IYF perimeter defense, while in the 2nd lineup, RD's presence on help side, as well as an improved Haas, should counter any weaknesses of PJ and Taylor. I am presuming Stephens' defense will continue to improve.

As a result, I see two very effective lineups that would allow Purdue to play at a consistently high level, both on offense and defense. Having Smotherman and Cline would also provide either lineup with depth and additional firepower.

All in all, over the 45 years I have been following Purdue basketball, I have not seen so much quality depth as exists with this team. And to simply view this team through the eyes of a traditional starting five plus 2-3 subs is selling our capability far short of what we could put on the floor for an entire 40 minute game.

Keep in mind that there is a reason hockey teams play with pre-designated lines - because the players get so used to one another on a given line that they instinctively know where each other is at and what they can expect and rely on from one another.

Most basketball teams never approach that level of effective depth - but we do.

I hope Matt experiments with plenty of lineups, not only to find the best starting five, but to find our best 2nd starting five! Could be special!

JMHOAU

 

[WarBoiler44]

Don't forget the fact that Haas started 11 games as a true freshman. I want to see Hammons dominate and go out as a champion and a lottery pick, but Isaac will battle him every step of the way. That will only serve to make Painters decision process easier/harder at the same time. Let me leave this board with this one reminder! DO NOT SLEEP ON ISAAC HAAS!! Biased reply, but an educated one also

 

[laguna1]

I won't sleep on Haas, Dakota, Kendall, Basil, Johnny, or anyone else. We've got depth this year and we have a core of 4 players that will be our nucleus.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

It still amazes me how some people actually think the 3-time captain of the team, the returning DPOY, and vocal leader of the team will not start his final season as a senior. Amazing.

The NBA champs brought their veteran leader and best defender off the bench during the playoffs.

 

[pboiler18]

I feel like a starting lineup of Davis, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and Hammons gives us everything we need. Unless Hill is a slasher type, he's not going to bring anything that the guys above don't bring...so why the need to play a true point when we absolutely don't need one? Davis and Edwards are the get to the basket type. Mathias, Edwards and to some extent Davis and Swanigan will be called on to extend the D with 15 ft and out shooting.

If we do play a point, i'd expect Edwards to be the first sub off the bench and he can give either the 3 or 4 spot a blow. No way either guy doesn't start...but i'd garuntee there's no way that Davis doesn't start.

 

[CRBoiler]

I feel like a starting lineup of Davis, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and Hammons gives us everything we need.

I like that lineup very much & agree it may be our best, but it does carry risks:
- Inability to deal with FC pressure. Maybe Swanigan's passing ability (along with Mathias's) will allow this lineup with beat a well-executed press better than last year's lineups, and maybe not. Overall, this lineup may not be fast/quick enough & may not have enough high-caliber ball-handling to deal with the press.
- Giving up points in transition. A small ball team or a team with bigs that can run the court well may have the opportunity for a lot of transition offense. Of course, we will have our own advantages on offense with this lineup , but it is yet to be seen how our offensive stack compares with a highly effective speed/transition-oriented offensive stack.

 

[reswat]

I feel like a starting lineup of Davis, Mathias, Edwards, Swanigan and Hammons gives us everything we need.

I agree. That's great size, intelligence, shooting and rebounding. But also believe it is a toss-up between Mathias and Stephens. I think Stephens has a chip on his shoulder (in a good way) and that he feels like he has something to prove. I expect to see him make significant improvement between last year and this one.

 

[dal9]

PG-Davis-Edwards-Caleb-AJ

Unless Edwards is not fast enough to defend the SF, or his handles are not good enough. then his playing time gets cut, Davis plays the 3, and Stephens/Mathias start at the 2.

 

[PU pit bull]

I agree. That's great size, intelligence, shooting and rebounding. But also believe it is a toss-up between Mathias and Stephens. I think Stephens has a chip on his shoulder (in a good way) and that he feels like he has something to prove. I expect to see him make significant improvement between last year and this one.

I think you may be right about Stephens, but can he catch up with Mathias' improvement? We watched a Mathias that finally got his legs under him toward the end of the season.......he will be fun to watch.

 

[CRBoiler]

I'm a huge fan of both those guys. I hope they, along with Cline, challenge each other to get better all summer and arrive in the fall as the best trio of shooters in the conference. As much potential as they have, it's possible for them to collectively get to that level. Boiler Up!