The next 2 games will determine if DH2 will be fired....

[TMA62]

....at season's end. Its do or die time. And I think all the coaches know that.

If Purdue starts 3-0 and picks up a game or two in conference play, that maybe enough to give DH2 a reprieve for this year.

These next two games are winnable yet will be a challenge. It does not get easy after these two games. Hazell has got to get W's the next two weeks.

 

[spradecki]

....at season's end. Its do or die time. And I think all the coaches know that.

If Purdue starts 3-0 and picks up a game or two in conference play, that maybe enough to give DH2 a reprieve for this year.

These next two games are winnable yet will be a challenge. It does not get easy after these two games. Hazell has got to get W's the next two weeks.

if dh wins 4/5 games and gets a reprieve the fanbase will be completely lost

 

[since1980]

I am still a Hazell supporter, but I just don't see him being given another year if we don't at the very least win 6 and go to a bowl game with this schedule. If he starts 3-0 but then only wins 2 more games the rest of the season, I don't see that being good enough for him to keep his job..as that would be a lot of losses the rest of the year. If we start 3-0, I think that's a sign that we should be pretty competitive the rest of the season and I think 6 or 7 wins would be well within reach.

 

[boiledmeconium]

In my opinion, Hazell HAS so win minimum of 7 games to be extended. That means either 6 wins plus a toilet bowl win, or 7 wins and a decent bowl loss. There are too many good coaches and coordinators out there to let them get hired elsewhere and keep us mired in mediocrity.

That means he has to win the next three games plus 3-4 B1G games: IU (must, must win) and two or three of Maryland, Illinois, Northwestern, or Minnesota.

 

[BoilerBiker]

In my opinion, Hazell HAS so win minimum of 7 games to be extended. That means either 6 wins plus a toilet bowl win, or 7 wins and a decent bowl loss. There are too many good coaches and coordinators out there to let them get hired elsewhere and keep us mired in mediocrity.

That means he has to win the next three games plus 3-4 B1G games: IU (must, must win) and two or three of Maryland, Illinois, Northwestern, or Minnesota.

Exactly
As stated before, DH1 was out for 6 wins and a bowl bid while making 3-4 times less than DH2.
Unless MB2 wants to out-burke even his predecessor

 

[IndySouthsider]

Has Purdue ever lost the bucket (4) consecutive?

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Has Purdue ever lost the bucket (4) consecutive?

From 1944 - 1947, IU won the Old Oaken Bucket four consecutive times. There were other instances where IU had won three times but was led off or finished with a tie. The longest Purdue has gone without the bucket would be from 1917 - 1924. In that span, the Hoosiers beat the Boilers three consecutive years, tied in 1922, and then beat Purdue again in 1923. It should be noted that the series was halted in 1918 and 1919 due to WWI. Since that span in 1944 - 1947, Indiana has only ever won three consecutive games against the Boilers...and that is the current streak they are on. The current success IU is having is the best against Purdue since 1947.

Vice versa, Purdue's record for consecutive victories came from 1948 to 1961. There, they won 10 consecutive games, a tie occurred in 1958, and then followed that up with 3 more victories in a row.

 

[FirstDownB]

Exactly
As stated before, DH1 was out for 6 wins and a bowl bid while making 3-4 times less than DH2.
Unless MB2 wants to out-burke even his predecessor

As much as I would like to see DH2 replaced, the decision must stand on its own merits and should be evaluated by MB2 solely in terms of what option holds the brightest future for Purdue football. The DH1/MB1 situation should have no bearing. What's done is done and is not going to be fixed with a "justice for Danny" mentality.
Also, setting the bar at 7 wins because DH1 won 6 is oversimplification. DH1 was let go for a complex set of circumstances. But it all boiled down to losing the backing of the fan base and most importantly the disenchanted boosters who had grown accustomed seeing Purdue compete with the big boys under Tiller. Let's face it, in 2016 most Purdue fans no longer feel entitled to 8-9 wins and a new year's day bowl game.
Maybe 6 wins is enough. Heck, maybe 5 is if there is competitiveness against the Wisconsins and Iowas of the world, no embarrassing losses, and a win against IU. It's going to depend a lot on whether any "buzz" is generated this season. My guess is they fall short, but we shall see.

 

[rgarlitz]

IMO --- the last two games of the season should carry more weight than the next two.

Haze can't afford a fourth straight late-season collapse punctuated with a loss to Indiana. There were momentary signs of life in both 2014 and 2015, but each season ended with a resounding thud. If that happens again, Haze should be gone.

Rolling through a decidedly underwhelming on-conference schedule is nothing special in year four. Haze has to win some B1G games and not get steamrolled by the likes of Illinois and Minnesota.

 

[TMA62]

Thanks for the replies on this post. Very insightful. I posted it with this reasoning. If Purdue does start 3-0 and finishes with a 5 win season, DH2 can appeal to MB2 saying, 'with the new coordinators and coaches in place, we are turning the corner this year. We need more time to finish. That rationale may, it just may, give him a reprieve for one more year.

If they collapse and have a 2-3 win season, then it will be obvious to all that the DH2 experiment has failed.

 

[boiledmeconium]

As much as I would like to see DH2 replaced, the decision must stand on its own merits and should be evaluated by MB2 solely in terms of what option holds the brightest future for Purdue football. The DH1/MB1 situation should have no bearing. What's done is done and is not going to be fixed with a "justice for Danny" mentality.
Also, setting the bar at 7 wins because DH1 won 6 is oversimplification. DH1 was let go for a complex set of circumstances. But it all boiled down to losing the backing of the fan base and most importantly the disenchanted boosters who had grown accustomed seeing Purdue compete with the big boys under Tiller. Let's face it, in 2016 most Purdue fans no longer feel entitled to 8-9 wins and a new year's day bowl game.
Maybe 6 wins is enough. Heck, maybe 5 is if there is competitiveness against the Wisconsins and Iowas of the world, no embarrassing losses, and a win against IU. It's going to depend a lot on whether any "buzz" is generated this season. My guess is they fall short, but we shall see.

I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. if most boiler fans don't demand 8-9 wins and good bowl games annually, but instead be satisfied with 5-6 wins, then we should just drop out of the Big Ten altogether. That's just insane.

 

[FirstDownB]

I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. if most boiler fans don't demand 8-9 wins and good bowl games annually, but instead be satisfied with 5-6 wins, then we should just drop out of the Big Ten altogether. That's just insane.

So do you disagree that near term fan/booster expectations have been lowered?
I want Purdue to succeed as much as you, but if (in theory) the staff were to produce a team this year that is competitive, fun to watch, beats IU, and goes to a bowl game you REALLY think there won't be more support for a DH2 return in 2017 than there was for a DH1 return in 2013?
The point of my previous post is it was the declining revenues that did DH1 in. This is as much about keeping boosters happy as it is about winning football games. As shaky as the current revenue situation is, if they begin to warm to the current staff you think MB2 is going to shake things up? Particularly now with the hindsight of what happened after DH1 was let go?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Thanks for the replies on this post. Very insightful. I posted it with this reasoning. If Purdue does start 3-0 and finishes with a 5 win season, DH2 can appeal to MB2 saying, 'with the new coordinators and coaches in place, we are turning the corner this year. We need more time to finish. That rationale may, it just may, give him a reprieve for one more year.

If they collapse and have a 2-3 win season, then it will be obvious to all that the DH2 experiment has failed.

A five win season by a fourth year coach is totally unacceptable. Hope did better than that. Five wins and DH has to go. My guess is two wins, with a third an outside shot.

 

[SIBoiler2]

if dh wins 4/5 games and gets a reprieve the fanbase will be completely lost

You mean more completely than it already is?

 

[boiledmeconium]

So do you disagree that near term fan/booster expectations have been lowered?
I want Purdue to succeed as much as you, but if (in theory) the staff were to produce a team this year that is competitive, fun to watch, beats IU, and goes to a bowl game you REALLY think there won't be more support for a DH2 return in 2017 than there was for a DH1 return in 2013?
The point of my previous post is it was the declining revenues that did DH1 in. This is as much about keeping boosters happy as it is about winning football games. As shaky as the current revenue situation is, if they begin to warm to the current staff you think MB2 is going to shake things up? Particularly now with the hindsight of what happened after DH1 was let go?

There is a difference between "expectations" and "acceptance". The fan base expects Purdue to field a good team. A team that wins, not just one that competes. Fans, however, have accepted that the probability of DH2 achieving that is very small.

Setting the bar at 7 wins is not an oversimplification. DH2 was hired to take Purdue to the next level. He has not. In my line of work, if you dont do what you are hired to do, and paid to do, you are fired. Also, Bobinski has stated that he "is not a status quo type of guy". His #1 job is to fix football.

Furthermore, if DH1 got fired due to complex reasons that include declining revenues, DH2 can be fired for similar complex reasons. The opening home game had like 31,000 people there. The lowest in decades. If it wasn't for the BTN, the revenue situation would be more than just shaky. If the fan base is okay with mediocrity, then the stadium should be full regardless. It's not, and if it isn't at seasons end, then DH2 is gone.

 

[Boiler Wolf]

Four bucket loses should get a Purdue coach fired, even if he wins all other games. Heck, 3 should get him fired. No matter what else happens.

 

[FirstDownB]

If the fan base is okay with mediocrity, then the stadium should be full regardless. It's not, and if it isn't at seasons end, then DH2 is gone.

Not mediocrity but hope. Real, tangible hope. My premise was the decision will be made based on the present and future outlook, with heavy consideration to fan/booster reaction to how this season plays out vs. a strict win total. If everyone is still "meh" about Purdue football by the end of November then, yes, he's gone. I just don't think it would absolutely require 7+ wins this year to get people on board (this coming from a guy who is 99% anti Hazell). I believe this is a fan base that's absolutely hungry for a bowl game and a win over its rival. There are thousands of people standing by waiting for any sign of hope. There is a window of lowered expectations. Temporary, but very real. Now, just don't peak out at 6 wins or we're going to have problems

 

[FearTheTrain]

I think if Burke were still here it would be 6 wins.

We have a new AD, the bar is at 7 wins to stay.

People need to shut up about this mediocrity/average BS..we have been the worst major conference program of the last few years. Mediocre sounds pretty good right now.

 

[boiledmeconium]

Not mediocrity but hope. Real, tangible hope. My premise was the decision will be made based on the present and future outlook, with heavy consideration to fan/booster reaction to how this season plays out vs. a strict win total. If everyone is still "meh" about Purdue football by the end of November then, yes, he's gone. I just don't think it would absolutely require 7+ wins this year to get people on board (this coming from a guy who is 99% anti Hazell). I believe this is a fan base that's absolutely hungry for a bowl game and a win over its rival. There are thousands of people standing by waiting for any sign of hope. There is a window of lowered expectations. Temporary, but very real. Now, just don't peak out at 6 wins or we're going to have problems

OK, ill buy that. However, nothing is more tangible than wins. We've been told about improvement for 3 years now. Winners talk and Losers walk. Especially when it comes to the bucket.

 

[BoilerBiker]

Not mediocrity but hope. Real, tangible hope. My premise was the decision will be made based on the present and future outlook, with heavy consideration to fan/booster reaction to how this season plays out vs. a strict win total. If everyone is still "meh" about Purdue football by the end of November then, yes, he's gone. I just don't think it would absolutely require 7+ wins this year to get people on board (this coming from a guy who is 99% anti Hazell). I believe this is a fan base that's absolutely hungry for a bowl game and a win over its rival. There are thousands of people standing by waiting for any sign of hope. There is a window of lowered expectations. Temporary, but very real. Now, just don't peak out at 6 wins or we're going to have problems

Will take a ton of new found 'hope' to regain lost attendance, jpc members, etc

Even if dh2 were to win the big ten this year, would that many within our fan base immediately regain that long term hope on one season ? And think it could be sustained?

Unless we know entirely different fan bases, I doubt we would see such an immediate return of jpc members or acquiring that many new ones.
Unfortunately some intend to be gone permanently.

 

[FirstDownB]

Will take a ton of new found 'hope' to regain lost attendance, jpc members, etc

Even if dh2 were to win the big ten this year, would that many within our fan base immediately regain that long term hope on one season ? And think it could be sustained?

Unless we know entirely different fan bases, I doubt we would see such an immediate return of jpc members or acquiring that many new ones.
Unfortunately some intend to be gone permanently.

It's going to take sustained success to mend some of those fences for sure. But I tend to think many would at least come back in 2017 with a "show me" mentality. Probably about the same as would come back for a new coach. I'm going to stop with this thread now as I think we are headed toward 3-9 and an obvious decision.

 

[boiledmeconium]

Will take a ton of new found 'hope' to regain lost attendance, jpc members, etc

Even if dh2 were to win the big ten this year, would that many within our fan base immediately regain that long term hope on one season ? And think it could be sustained?

Unless we know entirely different fan bases, I doubt we would see such an immediate return of jpc members or acquiring that many new ones.
Unfortunately some intend to be gone permanently.

If, as you postulated, DH2 wins the B1G this year, I would sh*t my pants and double my JPC contribution. I find that unlikely, however. Tiller had what, one B1G shared championship?

 

[TMA62]

At the beginning, I think that DH2 looked promising on paper and had potential but it has not panned out. Coordinators and assistant coaches need to assessed quickly if they are the right fit for the HC and program; changes have to be made by the end of the 2nd season. DH2 waited till the end of the 3rd season = Death Spiral was already taking place. The inevitable now awaits.

 

[tigerchump]

Yes,by winning the Bucket last year,IU claimed it for the third straight season for the first time since 1947.It makes me wonder if the Hoosiers have beaten any other Conference team three years in a row since the late 1940s.I think maybe they beat Northwestern thrice in a row in the seventies or eighties.I know they have only topped OSU twice in my lifetime,but I am only 64.They whipped the Bucknuts in 87 and 88,and I thinks IUS only victory over Michigan since 1967 was in 1987.Ball State has three straight wins over IU,but I think the Hoosiers will get by them this week.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I'm now onboard with 6 wins plus a bowl win (or 7 wins plus a bowl close loss). I would also add a stronger recruiting class than we've seen so far.

I doubt 5 wins will be good enough for the new AD.

 

[Redhotfill]

I am still a Hazell supporter, but I just don't see him being given another year if we don't at the very least win 6 and go to a bowl game with this schedule. If he starts 3-0 but then only wins 2 more games the rest of the season, I don't see that being good enough for him to keep his job..as that would be a lot of losses the rest of the year. If we start 3-0, I think that's a sign that we should be pretty competitive the rest of the season and I think 6 or 7 wins would be well within reach.

Don't you know the Surgeon General has determined that drinking purple Cool-Aid is bad for your health?

 

[boilersmitty]

At the beginning, I think that DH2 looked promising on paper and had potential but it has not panned out. Coordinators and assistant coaches need to assessed quickly if they are the right fit for the HC and program; changes have to be made by the end of the 2nd season. DH2 waited till the end of the 3rd season = Death Spiral was already taking place. The inevitable now awaits.

I knew Hazell was a mistake when he skipped taking over the Boilers to play his Bowl game, and lost. Clearly he realized it would be his best chance to coach one....

CDH is in complete denial. He is just happy to be here and get paid, doesn't give an F about Purdue aside from the check.

 

[Boiler8285]

If Hazell believed he had a shot he would have hit the recruiting trail hard. He is just playing it out so he can collect his buy-out. Ultimately his record and the personnel he recruited will be his downfall. Won't get the fans back until he is gone. I agree with the earlier post. Hazell started in the hole when chose to coach a bowl game rather than get right to work. Basically missed a year of recruiting and just settled for whoever Hope had on the board.

 

[boiledmeconium]

I heard that DH2 and MB1 were overheard laughing in his office right after MB1's goodbye presser. They are splitting the buyout 3 ways between them and DH1 after they conned Purdue into approving such an atrocious set of terms. They are all laughing all the way to the bank while we remain terrible in football.