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Stop The Man Crush w/ Grady, Give Taylor a Chance To Help on Rebounding

BoilerInChiTown

True Freshman
Oct 5, 2016
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With regards to rebounding or the lack of it, I think Taylor will help in that department. Not sure why Grady play in front of Taylor.

We should start a chant "Stop The Man Crush w/ Grady, Give Taylor a Chance". What's there to lose? Maybe Taylor next year if we don't play him...
 
With regards to rebounding or the lack of it, I think Taylor will help in that department. Not sure why Grady play in front of Taylor.

We should start a chant "Stop The Man Crush w/ Grady, Give Taylor a Chance". What's there to lose? Maybe Taylor next year if we don't play him...
Sorry. I just think you are not right and the minutes involved are insignificant. When Grady does play he is very effective and rebounds quite well. I don’t see Taylor as an upgrade.
 
Sorry. I just think you are not right and the minutes involved are insignificant. When Grady does play he is very effective and rebounds quite well. I don’t see Taylor as an upgrade.

Exactly. Grady has been fine in spot duty. I'm all for Taylor, but he has looked slow and a little lost on D during the minutes he has received this year. I think his foot is still an issue. If he didn't get injured and was capable of playing like he did in the WUG he would be getting minutes IMO.
 
Sorry. I just think you are not right and the minutes involved are insignificant. When Grady does play he is very effective and rebounds quite well. I don’t see Taylor as an upgrade.

You must be watching different games than the ones I've been watching. I don't think Grady has gotten a single rebound in the last three games.

You also must be one of the many so called experts on this board that said we will be fine with rebounding when I was one of the few on here that though it will be our biggest problem this year after Biggie declared for the NBA draft.

As for Taylor been slow, mentioned by another poster, how do you know as he hasn't played at all.

Taylor will help us in rebounding. Unless you all have another solution, we should give a try. A few more possession in the tournament maybe the difference in winning or losing. BTFU...
 
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Sorry. I just think you are not right and the minutes involved are insignificant. When Grady does play he is very effective and rebounds quite well. I don’t see Taylor as an upgrade.
Taylor isn't an upgrade just yet. As you pointed out if people actually watch the game, Grady rebounds very well.
 
Then you simply aren't paying attention.

12 minutes in the last 3 games for 0 rebounds. In the Michigan game he played one minute and got one rebound. He is averaging 1.5 rebounds, but in the last 3 games where Purdue has looked bad and the whole team got outrebounded, he added none.

However, I don't have a problem with him playing. He doesn't wow or pad the stats, but he doesn't turn it over much, he defends, and plays well enough within the system. I would suggest Haarms at the four, but he needs to improve his shooting, be able to defend smaller faster fours, and learn to rebound the dang ball before I would call for more minutes at the four. He is a freshman and he has improved, so I expect further improvement and he may be a four eventually. Right now, I am not a fan of him guarding at the top of the key against a smaller and much faster player. I have seen him get beat like that quite a few times, especially when switching.

Upside: we add Williams next year. Might be the best rebounder in his class. Instinctual and wide bodied. I expect him to be an absolute star in this system. It's almost shameful how he isn't in the top 50. I don't know many kids that's can grab 20+ rebounds and do so in multiple games.
 
A big reason for our rebounding issues is our inability to prevent dribble penetration, which means our bigs have to come help leaving our small guards trying to out rebound much bigger guys.
The road map on how to beat Purdue is now laid out. Hope Painter can counter it.
 
Taylor has looked like a walkon when he has gotten minutes. He just doesn't seem to be able to contribute at the level we need him to, for whatever reason.
 
Two things:

1. It's not necessary to criticize Taylor to justify playing Grady. Taylor has loads of potential but has had awful luck during his time here. I still think there's a possibility he could become an extremely useful player.

2. Speaking of extremely useful...

There are a great many basketball skills that don't show up in box scores. Deflections, for instance, are recorded by just about every coach worth his salt, but you never see those in the box score.

Where Grady excels is in providing electric intensity on the defensive end and setting solid screens on offense. On D, he hedges like a madman, which often redirects the ball handler and negates the opposing offense's best chance to score in a possession; on O, he's great at moving, getting others open, and not stopping the ball on his touches.

Grady has been extremely useful; Taylor will hopefully get healthy and show what he can do.
 
With regards to rebounding or the lack of it, I think Taylor will help in that department. Not sure why Grady play in front of Taylor.

We should start a chant "Stop The Man Crush w/ Grady, Give Taylor a Chance". What's there to lose? Maybe Taylor next year if we don't play him...

The Taylor man crush is actually more perplexing to me. Sure, I'd love for him to be good and I think those minutes when Eifert is in are this team's biggest vulnerability. But nothing about Taylor's actual play suggests he's a solution. The game looks way too fast for him still. I didn't see the WUG games but in 3 seasons of taylor in ncaa games, he hasn't shown the on court skills to help this team. He seems like a great teammate and program guy which is great but that doesn't make him an on court factor.

Purdue just needs haas and haarms to stay healthy and out of foul trouble.
 
The Taylor man crush is actually more perplexing to me. Sure, I'd love for him to be good and I think those minutes when Eifert is in are this team's biggest vulnerability. But nothing about Taylor's actual play suggests he's a solution. The game looks way too fast for him still. I didn't see the WUG games but in 3 seasons of taylor in ncaa games, he hasn't shown the on court skills to help this team. He seems like a great teammate and program guy which is great but that doesn't make him an on court factor.

Purdue just needs haas and haarms to stay healthy and out of foul trouble.
Ding ding ding. Well said and exactly right.
 
Grady impacts the game in a more profound way that simply looking at rebounds. This topic has been debated endlessly throughout the season. Taylor is more a 5 with his limited mobility and likely couldn't guard the 4 that much. So you would be pulling Haas for Taylor or forcing Haarms to guard the 4...essentially he would be guarding players like KBD or JJJ. Taylor would have an incredible time trying to guard those types of players coming off his injury and looking a step or two slower than he did in the WUG.

Grady is able to guard the 3 and 4 effectively while also providing ball movement on the offensive end. Sometimes the states don't tell you all of the story and if you are solely looking at that OR only watching the ball when watching a game, you simply can't see what Grady does incredibly well.
 
Players earn playing time during practice. There has to be a reason Taylor isn't playing! What we have seen this year is not the same Taylor we once saw. People talk about him being rusty. It's past time for that rust to be gone. I'll be bold and speculate he doesn't return next year. If he does return, I don't see him contributing any more than he is this year.
 
Players earn playing time during practice. There has to be a reason Taylor isn't playing! What we have seen this year is not the same Taylor we once saw. People talk about him being rusty. It's past time for that rust to be gone. I'll be bold and speculate he doesn't return next year. If he does return, I don't see him contributing any more than he is this year.
In one of his call in shows, CMP brought this exact issue up. He has told Taylor he has zero issue in playing him and has full trust in his ability....but with Haas playing at a first team rate and Haarms playing at a 6th man of the year rate...do you play Taylor over those two and take their minutes away? CMP said that Taylor understands that and also said he was hopeful Taylor's time would come eventually with the bad luck of injuries and playing behind absolute studs in the middle (Hammons, Biggie, Haas, Haarms).
 
In one of his call in shows, CMP brought this exact issue up. He has told Taylor he has zero issue in playing him and has full trust in his ability....but with Haas playing at a first team rate and Haarms playing at a 6th man of the year rate...do you play Taylor over those two and take their minutes away? CMP said that Taylor understands that and also said he was hopeful Taylor's time would come eventually with the bad luck of injuries and playing behind absolute studs in the middle (Hammons, Biggie, Haas, Haarms).

So you're saying Painter doesn't want to play him at PF or in a twin towers mode?
 
So you're saying Painter doesn't want to play him at PF or in a twin towers mode?
He has at times at the end of games when it has been a blowout...but when has Taylor played alongside either Haas or Haarms in meaningful minutes during the season? That would be 0..so I doubt he sees anything he would considered useful with that lineup.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing how Eastern would do at the 3 for some rotations.
Once Eastern has the offense initiated, he essentially is playing off the ball and awaiting the opportunity for a backside rebound (which he has shown a great talent for) or for a ball reversal and a one on one opportunity against a defender he can get around and in to the lane. He doesn't have to be set at the 3 for this to happen.
 
Admittedly we haven't had any blowouts lately but I can't even remember the last game Taylor played. And when was the last game Taylor played more than 5 minutes this year? He played some minutes in the WUG, but looking back, that appears only because Haarms wasn't available to play.
 
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Admittedly we haven't had any blowouts lately but I can't even remember the last game Taylor played. And when was the last game Taylor played more than 5 minutes this year? He played some minutes in the WUG, but looking back, that appears only because Haarms wasn't available to play.
Taylor's Minutes:
SIUE: 8min
Chicago St: 11min
Fairfield: 13min
Valpo: 7 min
Tennessee State: 9 min
@ Minnesota: 5 min
Iowa: 8 min
 
The Taylor man crush is actually more perplexing to me. Sure, I'd love for him to be good and I think those minutes when Eifert is in are this team's biggest vulnerability. But nothing about Taylor's actual play suggests he's a solution. The game looks way too fast for him still. I didn't see the WUG games but in 3 seasons of taylor in ncaa games, he hasn't shown the on court skills to help this team. He seems like a great teammate and program guy which is great but that doesn't make him an on court factor.

Purdue just needs haas and haarms to stay healthy and out of foul trouble.

Man crush? He average 6.5 rebounds, 5.5 points in 15.6 minutes per during the WUG games. Give the guy a chance to help this team. This our best chance to make it to the F4 since the baby boilers until Hummel got hurt. He will help our rebounding...

https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/purdue-wug-stats-all-11-games.125260/
 
So you're saying Painter doesn't want to play him at PF or in a twin towers mode?

I think the issue with that is that we're not in the 90s anymore! ha

Very few teams play a traditional center plus a traditional power forward. Hell, many teams don't even play a traditional center if they don't have to.

Yes, it gives you an advantage on one end - but a huge liability on the other end. The problem obviously is that Taylor is not a big offensive force - so the advantage on the offensive end is not great.
 
I think the issue with that is that we're not in the 90s anymore! ha

Very few teams play a traditional center plus a traditional power forward. Hell, many teams don't even play a traditional center if they don't have to.

Yes, it gives you an advantage on one end - but a huge liability on the other end. The problem obviously is that Taylor is not a big offensive force - so the advantage on the offensive end is not great.
What CMP has said to this effect was when you adjust what you do to your opponent, you've waived a white flag and likely are trying to do things you aren't as good at. Purdue is an elite inside-out team this season and when Haas is able to work the inside, dominate the paint, and then kick to shooters....Purdue has been an absolute monster on both ends as it puts other teams under pressure to keep up.
 
The Taylor man crush is actually more perplexing to me. Sure, I'd love for him to be good and I think those minutes when Eifert is in are this team's biggest vulnerability. But nothing about Taylor's actual play suggests he's a solution. The game looks way too fast for him still. I didn't see the WUG games but in 3 seasons of taylor in ncaa games, he hasn't shown the on court skills to help this team. He seems like a great teammate and program guy which is great but that doesn't make him an on court factor.

Purdue just needs haas and haarms to stay healthy and out of foul trouble.
Agreed. The only flash from JT was a late game barrage of 3s in one game. I'm guessing that's not going to happen again. To use the term man crush when referring to the use of a sub by Painter is a slur to both of them and shows limited knowledge of the game. I'm so happy the OP predicted we'd have trouble rebounding without Biggie. I'd be more impressed if he could show me his prediction that we'd have two losses and be undefeated in the B1G at this point. Even the groundhog knows when to go back to his hole. BoilerInChiTown, it's time to do the same.
 
For those who like to analyze stats. Can anyone see the difference? TT? file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/stats-201283-175828%20(1).pdf
 
You must be watching different games than the ones I've been watching. I don't think Grady has gotten a single rebound in the last three games.

You also must be one of the many so called experts on this board that said we will be fine with rebounding when I was one of the few on here that though it will be our biggest problem this year after Biggie declared for the NBA draft.

As for Taylor been slow, mentioned by another poster, how do you know as he hasn't played at all.

Taylor will help us in rebounding. Unless you all have another solution, we should give a try. A few more possession in the tournament maybe the difference in winning or losing. BTFU...
Thanks for anointing me the “Expert” title. Personally I would just say I am stating what I believe to be the case which is that Grady has rebounded quite well when he has played. I won’t qualify that to specific games as that is an indicator that someone is attempting to shape the stats to support their agenda. A season long comparison of rebounds per minute for each player might be interesting as long as we also consider that many of Grady’s minutes have occurred in meaningful times of the game against the opponents best lineups and unfortunately for Jacquil that is not the case.
As for how I thought we would rebound without Biggie...
I stated clearly that replacing his production would require an increase in rebounding numbers by multiple players especially forwards and guards. That has happened in most games and has been a problem in a few games. I would say that has been a mixed bag. Their have been fewer offensive rebound opportunities due to our ridiculously high offensive efficiency but it has not been consistent on the defensive board side.
If we were a high rebound margin team along with our other positives we would be undefeated and would likely remain so throughout the season.
Maybe we just aren’t good enough (TIC).
Have a happier day if you can.
 
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Players earn playing time during practice. There has to be a reason Taylor isn't playing! What we have seen this year is not the same Taylor we once saw. People talk about him being rusty. It's past time for that rust to be gone. I'll be bold and speculate he doesn't return next year. If he does return, I don't see him contributing any more than he is this year.

I think JT will be back next year, but being that he has had a redshirt and medical redshirt with 3 years of eligibility left after next season, then I can see him graduating from Purdue and becoming a graduate transfer somewhere else.

He has a lot of passion for this team, there is no denying that. On the court he looks like a player that runs to his spot decided on an X and O chart, and doesn't actually adapt to the play moving around him getting lost during the flow of the play. Maybe he's trying to do to much, or concentrated on being a help-side defender, or make sure he's always at the rim. At the end of the play, he just doesn't seem to look like he is comfortable.

Also not only do we have Williams and Duonowa (sp?), but Aaron Wheeler is redshirting and could probably play both 3 and 4. Too early to know
 
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Man crush? He average 6.5 rebounds, 5.5 points in 15.6 minutes per during the WUG games. Give the guy a chance to help this team. This our best chance to make it to the F4 since the baby boilers until Hummel got hurt. He will help our rebounding...

https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/purdue-wug-stats-all-11-games.125260/
You started the whole “man crush” thing and followed up my simple response with the “expert” slam. You are welcome to your opinion but try to act like an adult when people disagree.
I would live for Taylor to be super sub for Vince but I just don’t see it at present and it seams the coaches don’t either.
 
I think JT will be back next year, but being that he has had a redshirt and medical redshirt with 3 years of eligibility left after next season, then I can see him graduating from Purdue and becoming a graduate transfer somewhere else.

He has a lot of passion for this team, there is no denying that. On the court he looks like a player that runs to his spot decided on an X and O chart, and doesn't actually adapt to the play moving around him getting lost during the flow of the play. Maybe he's trying to do to much, or concentrated on being a help-side defender, or make sure he's always at the rim. At the end of the play, he just doesn't seem to look like he is comfortable.

Also not only do we have Williams and Duonowa (sp?), but Aaron Wheeler is redshirting and could probably play both 3 and 4. Too early to know
Agree with the Wheeler thought here. I think there is an outside chance he could surprise and end up starting some games next season as I think the only ones set in concrete right now are Haarm, Carsen, and probably Nojel. That seems to leave the 3 and 4 positions wide open.
 
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Taylor's Minutes:
SIUE: 8min
Chicago St: 11min
Fairfield: 13min
Valpo: 7 min
Tennessee State: 9 min
@ Minnesota: 5 min
Iowa: 8 min


most of those games were total blow-outs or early in the season. I believe that says something about painter's confidence in Taylor.
 
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Sorry. I just think you are not right and the minutes involved are insignificant. When Grady does play he is very effective and rebounds quite well. I don’t see Taylor as an upgrade.
Not only is Grady to slow to guard anyone, he's absolutely zero threat to score. From what little I've seen of JT, I think he's much more athletic, can shoot from the arc & rebound. My concern isn't the few minutes he gets now, but what if Vince gets in foul trouble. Do you really want GE on the court for extended minutes... I don't.
 
Man crush? He average 6.5 rebounds, 5.5 points in 15.6 minutes per during the WUG games. Give the guy a chance to help this team. This our best chance to make it to the F4 since the baby boilers until Hummel got hurt. He will help our rebounding...

https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/purdue-wug-stats-all-11-games.125260/

we played those games without Haarms, and during the WUG, Painter was giving his starters less minutes as he was experimenting and evaluating his players. Eastern also received more minutes earlier in the year. Taylor really hasn't really been the same since his foot injury and the WUG. has he been given the opportunity to show that he is fully recovered? Probably not during a game, but I have to believe he's displaying his talents during practice. .

and now that Haarms is available to play, are you suggesting painter give those his minutes or share his minutes with Taylor? I'm of the opinion there are only so many back-up minutes available. And those minutes are going to Haarms because he has earned them.. And Taylor is only getting minutes at center. it's not like Grady is stealing Taylor's minutes at SF/PF.

hate t say it, but Taylor's latest injury created an opportunity for Haarms to display his talents, and Haarms took advantage of it, and Painter now prefers Haarms.
 
Once Eastern has the offense initiated, he essentially is playing off the ball and awaiting the opportunity for a backside rebound (which he has shown a great talent for) or for a ball reversal and a one on one opportunity against a defender he can get around and in to the lane. He doesn't have to be set at the 3 for this to happen.
I mean use him for a sub at the forward spot , he seems to have a nose for the ball and the athleticism. I know he comes in for PJ at PG for what 10 min/gm. We have alot of guards to interchange. Some people may bring up Nojel's lack of O but a guy like Rodman was used only because he could rebound and we are lacking in that phase of the game.
 
I can’t believe people are still questioning Painters decisions. We are 7 points away from being undefeated in February. He has done a pretty good job so far.

That's the nature of being a "high profile" coach. Belichick has won 5 Super Bowls and been to 8, but people will still question some of his decisions after last nights loss. CMP has a few sweet 16's in a dozen years at Purdue. While I think this team is solid and can make some noise in March, he certainly is not beyond questioning. Maybe tweaking the lineup a bit will help them to help work on possibly their biggest weakness of rebounding and get beyond the 2nd weekend in the tourney. I don't think that's an unreasonable thought.
 
Not only is Grady to slow to guard anyone, he's absolutely zero threat to score. From what little I've seen of JT, I think he's much more athletic, can shoot from the arc & rebound. My concern isn't the few minutes he gets now, but what if Vince gets in foul trouble. Do you really want GE on the court for extended minutes... I don't.
And there is a reason you aren't coaching, okay many reasons. JT gets frequently lost on defense when he is in

But here, let's look at the stats from espn:

Jacquil Taylor
2017-18 Season
PPG RPG APG
1.7 1.4 0.2

Grady Eifert
2017-18 Season
PPG RPG APG
1.7 1.5 0.5

And the MPG isn't that far off from one another with Grady seeing about 1 minute more. JT isn't an upgrade at this point. He will be I am sure, but not yet.
 
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