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Something stinky this way comes

Schmedly_Whiplash said:
The stench emanating from Btown/Indy is thick.
How about the timing of this: https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...m-arrest-dropped-charges-ventura/72645768007/
Shat on the Indy Shitrag for letting an idiot iu grad post this bullshit at this time.
Fuk you too iu grad.
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I thought it was a great article. I can see why this could be construed as anti-Purdue, but I honestly think the same would have happened at most universities. Really unfortunate.

As much as I despise Shannon for the sexual assault charges and IL for playing him, I'd take that over the treatment that Hall received.
 
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northside100 said:
I thought it was a great article. I can see why this could be construed as anti-Purdue, but I honestly think the same would have happened at most universities. Really unfortunate.

As much as I despise Shannon for the sexual assault charges and IL for playing him, I'd take that over the treatment that Hall received.
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It definitely was an attack against Purdue. There was no mention of Lamar Lundy at the same time, also under Ray Eddy as well as football. 70 years ago there were all kinds of different treatments for blacks at hotels, restaurants and so forth. My brother-in-law told similar stories under Red Auerbach and the Celtics when they would venture south a decade later. I would like to believe that the history is well known and people are cognizant of it today. However, I'm not too sure that history in many areas is very popular in the USA overall and know damn well that most don't have an informed perspective.
 
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tjreese said:
It definitely was an attack against Purdue. There was no mention of Lamar Lundy at the same time, also under Ray Eddy as well as football. 70 years ago there were all kinds of different treatments for blacks at hotels, restaurants and so forth. My brother-in-law told similar stories under Red Auerbach and the Celtics when they would venture south a decade later. I would like to believe that the history is well known and people are cognizant of it today. However, I'm not too sure that history in many areas is very popular in the USA overall and know damn well that most don't have an informed perspective.
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Completely disagree. What did you want the author to say, 'Hall may have received unfair treatment at Purdue but it's ok because that was the norm at the time'?

I think that most of us recognize what the environment in most of the US was like at that time. I don't believe that Kentucky had their first black player until almost 20 years later. I thought that the fact that he had a high school coach and teammates that seemed to really accept him and look out for him (loved the 'smelly restaurant' story) was pretty incredible. What happened at Purdue seems really unfortunate but I don't think that most readers would find it to be surprising.
 
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northside100 said:
Completely disagree. What did you want the author to say, 'Hall may have received unfair treatment at Purdue but it's ok because that was the norm at the time'?

I think that most of us recognize what the environment in most of the US was like at that time. I don't believe that Kentucky had their first black player until almost 20 years later. I thought that the fact that he had a high school coach and teammates that seemed to really accept him and look out for him (loved the 'smelly restaurant' story) was pretty incredible. What happened at Purdue seems really unfortunate but I don't think that most readers would find it to be surprising.
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There mere fact that you agree that the culture at the time was such, and realize there are countless examples of other situations that could be written and somewhat mirror that, and yet don't see the countless other examples written, but only Purdue, is a bit surprising. I would have thought it rather easy to see a hit piece on Purdue as though "Purdue " was out of the norm even though you admit it was the norm across the country...which it was. So the obvious question was why was Purdue the focal point if the intent was to write about racism and unfair treatment as a result when you could write about the norms at the time across the USA? He certainly isn't the first black person or player that was subjected to racism. It wouldn't be hard to write on that.

I sat beside a couple of black guys for over a decade and would get talking basketball and one in particular would tell me about all the talent in Maryland and how some got in trouble, but never got to play in college, but were better than some of the pros that would come back.
 
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tjreese said:
There mere fact that you agree that the culture at the time was such, and realize there are countless examples of other situations that could be written and somewhat mirror that, and yet don't see the countless other examples written, but only Purdue, is a bit surprising. I would have thought it rather easy to see a hit piece on Purdue as though "Purdue " was out of the norm even though you admit it was the norm across the country...which it was. So the obvious question was why was Purdue the focal point if the intent was to write about racism and unfair treatment as a result when you could write about the norms at the time across the USA? He certainly isn't the first black person or player that was subjected to racism. It wouldn't be hard to write on that.

I sat beside a couple of black guys for over a decade and would get talking basketball and one in particular would tell me about all the talent in Maryland and how some got in trouble, but never got to play in college, but were better than some of the pros that would come back.
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My dad played ball at the Lafayette YMCA in the late fifties and early sixties. He was GOOD! He said there were easily 5 Jeff guys playing at the Y that would start ahead of who was starting. And that was when Denny Brady and Terry Stillabower played - State Champions in 1964. Those five were minorities though.
 
tjreese said:
There mere fact that you agree that the culture at the time was such, and realize there are countless examples of other situations that could be written and somewhat mirror that, and yet don't see the countless other examples written, but only Purdue, is a bit surprising. I would have thought it rather easy to see a hit piece on Purdue as though "Purdue " was out of the norm even though you admit it was the norm across the country...which it was. So the obvious question was why was Purdue the focal point if the intent was to write about racism and unfair treatment as a result when you could write about the norms at the time across the USA? He certainly isn't the first black person or player that was subjected to racism. It wouldn't be hard to write on that.

I sat beside a couple of black guys for over a decade and would get talking basketball and one in particular would tell me about all the talent in Maryland and how some got in trouble, but never got to play in college, but were better than some of the pros that would come back.
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I ate at Al's BBQ restaurant a few times... My GOD, it was good. It was operated out of a block garage that opened onto the street. Kinda sit on the curb and eat... SMOKY as hell
 
tjreese said:
There mere fact that you agree that the culture at the time was such, and realize there are countless examples of other situations that could be written and somewhat mirror that, and yet don't see the countless other examples written, but only Purdue, is a bit surprising. I would have thought it rather easy to see a hit piece on Purdue as though "Purdue " was out of the norm even though you admit it was the norm across the country...which it was. So the obvious question was why was Purdue the focal point if the intent was to write about racism and unfair treatment as a result when you could write about the norms at the time across the USA? He certainly isn't the first black person or player that was subjected to racism. It wouldn't be hard to write on that.

I sat beside a couple of black guys for over a decade and would get talking basketball and one in particular would tell me about all the talent in Maryland and how some got in trouble, but never got to play in college, but were better than some of the pros that would come back.
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I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight here but your posts make me wonder 1) whether you think Hall's story is not deserving to be told? and / or 2) whether you think that the story is unfair in how Purdue is portrayed, and if so, what specifically you see as unfair?

I may be misinterpreting but the way the I read your definition, every piece of writing or media that tells the story of individual mistreatment or injustice could be considered a 'hit piece' unless it contains a disclaimer of other injustices that occurred at the same time.
 
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northside100 said:
Completely disagree. What did you want the author to say, 'Hall may have received unfair treatment at Purdue but it's ok because that was the norm at the time'?

I think that most of us recognize what the environment in most of the US was like at that time. I don't believe that Kentucky had their first black player until almost 20 years later. I thought that the fact that he had a high school coach and teammates that seemed to really accept him and look out for him (loved the 'smelly restaurant' story) was pretty incredible. What happened at Purdue seems really unfortunate but I don't think that most readers would find it to be surprising.
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You cannot take today's culture and retroactively apply it to a past time. Things were different and like it or not, black people were treated differently. A dark time in our history for sure.

Not that I want to open that can, but that is a far cry from today's DEI efforts that rewards mediocrity. Sounds like Hall worked hard and earned everything. I can acknowledge that and think he has a place in Purdue's history. It doesn't have to go any further than that, in my opinion.
 
Woodsa said:
You cannot take today's culture and retroactively apply it to a past time. Things were different and like it or not, black people were treated differently. A dark time in our history for sure.

Not that I want to open that can, but that is a far cry from today's DEI efforts that rewards mediocrity. Sounds like Hall worked hard and earned everything. I can acknowledge that and think he has a place in Purdue's history. It doesn't have to go any further than that, in my opinion.
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The fact that the horrific treatment of a group of people based on their skin color was the norm doesn’t mean it was OK or that it is unfair for later generations to condemn it. How are things supposed to change if we don’t call them out? And, acknowledging that Ernie wasn’t treated fairly because of his skin color is the right thing to do. It’s not a hit piece if the story is accurate, btw. And, I’m not sure why the author of a hit piece would include the “smelly restaurant” anecdote. Finally, I’d be more concerned if the author said “and nothing has changed since at Purdue” and had facts to back it up.
 
Woodsa said:
You cannot take today's culture and retroactively apply it to a past time. Things were different and like it or not, black people were treated differently. A dark time in our history for sure.

Not that I want to open that can, but that is a far cry from today's DEI efforts that rewards mediocrity. Sounds like Hall worked hard and earned everything. I can acknowledge that and think he has a place in Purdue's history. It doesn't have to go any further than that, in my opinion.
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Lol DEI doesn't "reward mediocrity."
Every program that's ever sought to recognize that people of color deal with restrictions and handicaps in this country has been attacked as "rewarding mediocrity."

Going back literally to the 60s. Whether it was affirmative action, or diversity initiatives or now DEI. Every single attempt to say ya know maybe centuries of inequality might need some remedial measures have been attacked.

It's one thing if folks want to argue a specific program doesn't quite accomplish what it sets out to do. It's another thing to make intellectually lazy statements like DEI rewards mediocrity.

Ask successful Black people if they felt like they could give the same level of effort as their White peers and they will almost universally tell you no, we had to be twice as good or more.

Now apply that to your above average or even just average people of color. The former highly successful group succeed in spite of disadvantages not because there aren't any. And even then, there are more quality folks who don't get a chance. That's the whole point of diversity initiatives. To give those opportunities. The person still has to perform.

People of color get fired all of the time, every day. Because they couldn't do what was necessary. So no DEI doesn't reward mediocre people of color.
 
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BoilerAndy said:
I

I can tell you that in much more recent times, the treatment of different races was much worse in southern Indiana, including Bloomington, than in other parts of the state.
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Yeh, that would be classic Hoosier think.
And possibly some truth as you get pretty "south" in southern IN.
Are you aware of the history of the KKK around Muncie?
That'll get a re-think.
 
Schmedly_Whiplash said:
Yeh, that would be classic Hoosier think.
And possibly some truth as you get pretty "south" in southern IN.
Are you aware of the history of the KKK around Muncie?
That'll get a re-think.
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Are you aware of their activity in Mooresville?And it was probably in your lifetime.
 
northside100 said:
I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight here but your posts make me wonder 1) whether you think Hall's story is not deserving to be told? and / or 2) whether you think that the story is unfair in how Purdue is portrayed, and if so, what specifically you see as unfair?

I may be misinterpreting but the way the I read your definition, every piece of writing or media that tells the story of individual mistreatment or injustice could be considered a 'hit piece' unless it contains a disclaimer of other injustices that occurred at the same time.
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First, I agree that racism was pretty common back then. What we know from the piece is that the context was that there was a very good ball player subjected to various forms of racism in the Lafayette/Purdue locations. None of that surprises me at all. You and I both agree it was fairly common in many places and so why could it not happen at Purdue and even IU ( a bit more historically racist)?

So the story wasn't about racism in general listing various examples, or in athletics again having several opportunities. It was about racism at Purdue and yet I'm pretty comfortable believing it would be easy to find racism back then in other schools, towns and cities, but this was about racism at Purdue...the article written during Black History month. Was the article written as a piece for racism back then during Black History month? I have no idea, but if there was an honest attempt to portray those times...why single out Purdue as some isolated place where this happened, when in fact it was fairly common in many places?

Now relative to being dismissed from the team. None of us that read the article have anything of background other than what was prepared for us under the narrative that the author wanted to present. Without substantial data it is pretty much that way always. None of this says that racism didn't play in his dismissal? I already acknowledge the commonplace of such and agreed that the other things were no surprise to me. Still, I'm sure that many leaped over the chasm the author wanted and I'm reluctant on that being the case? That doesn't mean it couldn't...just that I admit I don't know and the fact is those that made the jump don't know either.

He was acquitted. That result can come from a LOT of things. It certainly doesn't mean he was innocent...although it could. Some probably got confused on that. We can pretty much assume with a degree of confidence that Ray Eddy (coach) with any amount of racism he had (maybe 0?) wanted him at Purdue more than any internal racism he had (if any). So racism didn't keep Ray Eddy from wanting him on the team...that is a fact, not a narrative by an author. Then after the altercation he was dismissed from the team by a coach that had no problem wanting him earlier and no problem understanding just how good he was. Why is a dismissal considered racist from the same guy that offered him indicative of not being a racist? There is some conflicting thought in that leap...and we have seen before similar accusations made with dismissals since that time. Lastly, none of the incidents, none of the word of mouth that was told...nothing prevented Lamar Lundy from going to Purdue...and nothing at all kept Lamar Lundy from playing for the same coach a year later. Consequently, I plead agnostic on him being dismissed from the team due to racism while fully confident that he was subjected to various racist acts. I've been misquoted in some papers in the past and we have to remember that all writings come from a perspective.
 
The story was not a hit piece. It put the Purdue coach in a positive light. It showed the player faced racism on the road and the coach tried to protect him. It was about the players life and great basketball career before Purdue leading his Lafayette high school team to a state championship, at Purdue and after Purdue. Timing of the story was for Black History Week. No conspiracy on timing.
 
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Gman544 said:
The story was not a hit piece. It put the Purdue coach in a positive light. It showed the player faced racism on the road and the coach tried to protect him. It was about the players life and great basketball career before Purdue leading his Lafayette high school team to a state championship, at Purdue and after Purdue. Timing of the story was for Black History Week. No conspiracy on timing.
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Makes the coach look good, not so much the school or people around it.
From a recent iu grad, I'm not at all sure it was so altruistic.
But point taken.
 
Gman544 said:
The story was not a hit piece. It put the Purdue coach in a positive light. It showed the player faced racism on the road and the coach tried to protect him. It was about the players life and great basketball career before Purdue leading his Lafayette high school team to a state championship, at Purdue and after Purdue. Timing of the story was for Black History Week. No conspiracy on timing.
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No conspiracy on anything. Obviously why he was dismissed by the coach who was put in a positive light as you stated leads to different conclusions...and some conclusions...the smart ones saying they don't have an informed opinion and don't know. Course today we know the get out of jail card...some posters play...perhaps the ones that state this and that that Matt has to do and maybe not very informed in that as well?

As one that has actually worked in two MLK events and spent many years on national forums concerning education and the huge gap between races...I'm not overly impressed by one...perhaps youth that has so little background. That isn't you I'm referring. BTW have you read much from Sowell? He has a LOT of data over decades that goes against many thoughts in the last few decades and yet he admits there was racism.
 
tjreese said:
First, I agree that racism was pretty common back then. What we know from the piece is that the context was that there was a very good ball player subjected to various forms of racism in the Lafayette/Purdue locations. None of that surprises me at all. You and I both agree it was fairly common in many places and so why could it not happen at Purdue and even IU ( a bit more historically racist)?

So the story wasn't about racism in general listing various examples, or in athletics again having several opportunities. It was about racism at Purdue and yet I'm pretty comfortable believing it would be easy to find racism back then in other schools, towns and cities, but this was about racism at Purdue...the article written during Black History month. Was the article written as a piece for racism back then during Black History month? I have no idea, but if there was an honest attempt to portray those times...why single out Purdue as some isolated place where this happened, when in fact it was fairly common in many places?

Now relative to being dismissed from the team. None of us that read the article have anything of background other than what was prepared for us under the narrative that the author wanted to present. Without substantial data it is pretty much that way always. None of this says that racism didn't play in his dismissal? I already acknowledge the commonplace of such and agreed that the other things were no surprise to me. Still, I'm sure that many leaped over the chasm the author wanted and I'm reluctant on that being the case? That doesn't mean it couldn't...just that I admit I don't know and the fact is those that made the jump don't know either.

He was acquitted. That result can come from a LOT of things. It certainly doesn't mean he was innocent...although it could. Some probably got confused on that. We can pretty much assume with a degree of confidence that Ray Eddy (coach) with any amount of racism he had (maybe 0?) wanted him at Purdue more than any internal racism he had (if any). So racism didn't keep Ray Eddy from wanting him on the team...that is a fact, not a narrative by an author. Then after the altercation he was dismissed from the team by a coach that had no problem wanting him earlier and no problem understanding just how good he was. Why is a dismissal considered racist from the same guy that offered him indicative of not being a racist? There is some conflicting thought in that leap...and we have seen before similar accusations made with dismissals since that time. Lastly, none of the incidents, none of the word of mouth that was told...nothing prevented Lamar Lundy from going to Purdue...and nothing at all kept Lamar Lundy from playing for the same coach a year later. Consequently, I plead agnostic on him being dismissed from the team due to racism while fully confident that he was subjected to various racist acts. I've been misquoted in some papers in the past and we have to remember that all writings come from a perspective.
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Why do you suppose that Hall was the first black basketball player at Purdue? Was it because there were no black players good enough to play at Purdue prior? Was it because there were no black players smart enough to play at Purdue? I would be shocked if either of those things were true at Purdue or the many, many other universities that fielded all white teams for decades.

We can hide behind the banner of 'we don't really know' or we can surmise that there were those that didn't want black players at Purdue and were happy to jump on Hall's mistake to ensure that he got the boot. I'm not saying that was the coach, AD or anyone in particular, they may have stuck their neck out to get Hall on the team in the first place, but if it took from 1896 to 1951 for Purdue to field its first black player, it's safe to say that there were people with some level of power who didn't want black players at Purdue (the same being true at many other Universities).
 
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northside100 said:
Why do you suppose that Hall was the first black basketball player at Purdue? Was it because there were no black players good enough to play at Purdue prior? Was it because there were no black players smart enough to play at Purdue? I would be shocked if either of those things were true at Purdue or the many, many other universities that fielded all white teams for decades.

We can hide behind the banner of 'we don't really know' or we can surmise that there were those that didn't want black players at Purdue and were happy to jump on Hall's mistake to ensure that he got the boot. I'm not saying that was the coach, AD or anyone in particular, they may have stuck their neck out to get Hall on the team in the first place, but if it took from 1896 to 1951 for Purdue to field its first black player, it's safe to say that there were people with some level of power who didn't want black players at Purdue (the same being true at many other Universities).
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Whoa!!!! We know why and have had no disagreement that there was racism in those events mentioned. That was never disputed in anything I wrote. Where we differ is the man that wanted him to play at Purdue and was the same man that dismissed him... and his color didn't change.

Therefore, I'm not going to jump to conclusions like some, because the reality is we don't know all the facts...only what was written. I'm not going to say you are wrong for already deciding what took place in the dismissal. I'm just not going there on either side as I also stated...as well as me already stating that you could be right.

I'm not a fan of herd mentality and so I'm perfectly fine saying racism was in play with the events and prevalent in many places back then, but that there are some things that should cause pause before stating what everyone should believe without any of the facts at the time. Ray Eddy was not a racist when he wanted him or if he was, he definitely wanted him more than his racist nature forbid. Then this same man dismissed him and he was a very good player. Why did Ray dismiss that man he wanted and needed? I don't know. Apparently others do and we read the same phucking thing? And as I said Lamar Lundy adds to those questions.
 
tjreese said:
Whoa!!!! We know why and have had no disagreement that there was racism in those events mentioned. That was never disputed in anything I wrote. Where we differ is that I don't know that the man that wanted him to play at Purdue and was the same man that dismissed him... and his color didn't change.

Therefore, I'm not going to jump to conclusions like some, because the reality is we don't know all the facts...only what was written. I'm not going to say you are wrong for already deciding what took place in the dismissal. I'm just not going there on either side as I also stated...as well as me already stating that you could be right.

I'm not a fan of herd mentality and so I'm perfectly fine saying racism was in play with the events and prevalent in many places back then, but that there are some things that should cause pause before stating what everyone should believe without any of the facts at the time. Ray Eddy was not a racist when he wanted him or if he was, he definitely wanted him more than his racist nature forbid. Then this same man dismissed him and he was a very good player. Why did Ray dismiss that man he wanted and needed? I don't know. Apparently others do? And as I said Lamar Lundy adds to those questions.
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Completely agree that it's not clear the role that Eddy or any individual played, I have no idea and I believe I stated that. Obviously in my opinion there is no jumping to a conclusion involved in stating that in the absence of Purdue dismissing white players for similar issues in that era, the dismissal reeks of racism.

We could speculate on whether that was because Eddy stuck his neck in in bringing Hall on the team and warned Earnie that if there were any trouble he'd be gone, that the AD or someone else in power had let Eddy bring Hall in on the condition that he be kept on a short leash or that Eddy was given no choice in the dismissal of Hall, but that would be pure speculation.
 
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northside100 said:
Completely agree that it's not clear the role that Eddy or any individual played, I have no idea and I believe I stated that. Obviously in my opinion there is no jumping to a conclusion involved in stating that in the absence of Purdue dismissing white players for similar issues in that era, the dismissal reeks of racism.

We could speculate on whether that was because Eddy stuck his neck in in bringing Hall on the team and warned Earnie that if there were any trouble he'd be gone, that the AD or someone else in power had let Eddy bring Hall in on the condition that he be kept on a short leash or that Eddy was given no choice in the dismissal of Hall, but that would be pure speculation.
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I’m unaware of the white player Eddy didn’t dismiss for the same thing. If that was posted I missed it . If not, then again it is speculation. What we do know that isn’t speculation is that Ray wanted him and certainly was a player he needed, but then after the altercation this same Ray Eddy dismissed the guy that was wanted and on the team before the altercation. What went on elsewhere has to do with elsewhere.

What we have is general perception applied to an individual’s position that is conflicted relative to Rays previous positions.
 
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tjreese said:
No conspiracy on anything. Obviously why he was dismissed by the coach who was put in a positive light as you stated leads to different conclusions...and some conclusions...the smart ones saying they don't have an informed opinion and don't know. Course today we know the get out of jail card...some posters play...perhaps the ones that state this and that that Matt has to do and maybe not very informed in that as well?

As one that has actually worked in two MLK events and spent many years on national forums concerning education and the huge gap between races...I'm not overly impressed by one...perhaps youth that has so little background. That isn't you I'm referring. BTW have you read much from Sowell? He has a LOT of data over decades that goes against many thoughts in the last few decades and yet he admits there was racism.
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Read him, but not recently. Brilliant guy, don’t always agree with him, but his positions are well defined and stated. The conspiracy I referred to is the so called conspiracy of the Indy Star to get Purdue and using this story as an example. Have folks read Gregg Doyle’s columns on Purdue and IU basketball? Love fest for Purdue and just total smackdowns of IU.
 
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Gman544 said:
Have folks read Gregg Doyle’s columns on Purdue and IU basketball? Love fest for Purdue and just total smackdowns of IU.
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That's not how they were written when the season started. His articles typically are meant for the IU masses. They are all down on the hoosiers now. He's not stupid, and he clearly isn't going to put lipstick on that pig.
 
I’d say the author got what he wanted. A few days later and we’ve still got not one but two threads going about this article. (And Purdue fans calling each other racists over it to boot).
 
BoilerMaker P said:
I’d say the author got what he wanted. A few days later and we’ve still got not one but two threads going about this article. (And Purdue fans calling each other racists over it to boot).
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Good, these things are worth talking about. IMO the level of discussion here has been incredibly civil given the subject matter. I didn't see anyone specifically calling anyone racist, although the truth is we all have our own biases and most of us (myself included) are at least a little bit racist in one way or another.
 
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I doubt the writer cares at all that folks on a sports message board are talking about this story. They are on to their next assignment.
 
Gman544 said:
Read him, but not recently. Brilliant guy, don’t always agree with him, but his positions are well defined and stated. The conspiracy I referred to is the so called conspiracy of the Indy Star to get Purdue and using this story as an example. Have folks read Gregg Doyle’s columns on Purdue and IU basketball? Love fest for Purdue and just total smackdowns of IU.
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Hard for me to not agree with a brilliant guy assuming his brilliance is his "brilliance areas" where Thomas stays in his lane. They are deep and probably need to read each a few times sorta like "Left-Back by Diane Ravitch. I thought his Conflict of Visions explained so much in how each side of the aisle has different visions. Very applicable with an eye to see. It certainly isn't what you would find in the net or papers.

Just finished this one and like all of his books, I think there were 60 pages of referenced material. Next up is The Schellhase Story.


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tjreese said:
I’m unaware of the white player Eddy didn’t dismiss for the same thing. If that was posted I missed it . If not, then again it is speculation. What we do know that isn’t speculation is that Ray wanted him and certainly was a player he needed, but then after the altercation this same Ray Eddy dismissed the guy that was wanted and on the team before the altercation. What went on elsewhere has to do with elsewhere.

What we have is general perception applied to an individual’s position that is conflicted relative to Rays previous positions.
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Can you clarify what it is that you're arguing?

If your argument is that we don't know whether Eddy personally exhibited racism in the dismissal of Hall I've already said that I agree that we don't know who was ultimately pulling the strings or how much leeway Eddy had in that decision.

If you are arguing that we don't know whether racism was a factor in Hall's dismissal, I'd challenge you to rethink where you're placing the burden of proof given that we know that Eddy and Hall had to overcome racism at Purdue to get Hall on the team in the first place.
 
northside100 said:
Can you clarify what it is that you're arguing?

If your argument is that we don't know whether Eddy personally exhibited racism in the dismissal of Hall I've already said that I agree that we don't know who was ultimately pulling the strings or how much leeway Eddy had in that decision.

If you are arguing that we don't know whether racism was a factor in Hall's dismissal, I'd challenge you to rethink where you're placing the burden of proof given that we know that Eddy and Hall had to overcome racism at Purdue to get Hall on the team in the first place.
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Ha Ha...I'm not arguing anything and unsure how that thought came to be? I'm fully aware of general racial issues back then and have stated such. I have also stated that I don't know whether his dismissal was due to race or not. I even added that you could be right, but that I couldn't make that leap over a chasm of no information. You on the other hand without any factual information on the "actual event" have already concluded that because there were some (not 100% as we should all know) that Ray Eddy who must be in the group that was racist (just had to be?)... who we know wanted him on the team only dismissed him after the altercation. So nobody is arguing anything because I only stated the only logical conclusion which was that I didn't know if his dismissal was due to race I didn't know either way and was agnostic in that sense.

I'm also aware around that time 1961/1962 how the Kokomo basketball team wanted Jim (Goose) Ligon on the court which Kokomo was probably every bit as racist as Lafayette. How can the be? We know there were racist people in the general population...maybe not all, but some. Hell, someone would bail him out of jail in time for the games. Let's suppose they were racist...which they could be, they still didn't want Goose off the court.

I have no information that Ray Eddy was racist (and you don't know that he was) and even though his record may have left something desired, I do believe it was important to him to have good ball players. You see before my brother-in-law went to Butler he signed a Big Ten letter to go to Purdue and Ray Eddy was the coach. Before being offered a scholly Jeff was told to bring some shoes up to Purdue and he (Ray) had scheduled Darrell McQuitty a starter for Purdue to play him. He must have held his own to get the offer. Still, it shows Ray wanted the best players he could get.
 
tjreese said:
Ha Ha...I'm not arguing anything and unsure how that thought came to be? I'm fully aware of general racial issues back then and have stated such. I have also stated that I don't know whether his dismissal was due to race or not. I even added that you could be right, but that I couldn't make that leap over a chasm of no information. You on the other hand without any factual information on the "actual event" have already concluded that because there were some (not 100% as we should all know) that Ray Eddy who must be in the group that was racist (just had to be?)... who we know wanted him on the team only dismissed him after the altercation. So nobody is arguing anything because I only stated the only logical conclusion which was that I didn't know if his dismissal was due to race I didn't know either way and was agnostic in that sense.

I'm also aware around that time 1961/1962 how the Kokomo basketball team wanted Jim (Goose) Ligon on the court which Kokomo was probably every bit as racist as Lafayette. How can the be? We know there were racist people in the general population...maybe not all, but some. Hell, someone would bail him out of jail in time for the games. Let's suppose they were racist...which they could be, they still didn't want Goose off the court.

I have no information that Ray Eddy was racist (and you don't know that he was) and even though his record may have left something desired, I do believe it was important to him to have good ball players. You see before my brother-in-law went to Butler he signed a Big Ten letter to go to Purdue and Ray Eddy was the coach. Before being offered a scholly Jeff was told to bring some shoes up to Purdue and he (Ray) had scheduled Darrell McQuitty a starter for Purdue to play him. He must have held his own to get the offer. Still, it shows Ray wanted the best players he could get.
Click to expand...
I'm really not looking for a fight, I'm not sure where the disconnect is here. I have at no time said that any one person, Eddy included, acted based on racism. My understanding is that your view is that we don't know that racism was involved in Hall's dismissal, is that understanding accurate?
 
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