Ernie Hall - what might have been

[KenTre1983]

Ernie Hall, the first black basketball player at Purdue - an incredible talent whose career was cut short due to racism. Sad story. Purdue needs to honor this man.

Purdue's first Black player lost to history: 'I thought he was mistreated and a lot of people did.'

Ernie Hall played just nine games for Purdue before he was kicked off the team after an arrest. Charges were dropped, but he never returned.

www.indystar.com

 

[tjreese]

Ernie Hall, the first black basketball player at Purdue - an incredible talent whose career was cut short due to racism. Sad story. Purdue needs to honor this man.

Purdue's first Black player lost to history: 'I thought he was mistreated and a lot of people did.'

Ernie Hall played just nine games for Purdue before he was kicked off the team after an arrest. Charges were dropped, but he never returned.

www.indystar.com

The article said he was on the team until Ray Eddy kicked him off due to an altercation. That said, Red Auerbach did similar things when his "whole" team wasn't treated the same when he went down south for preseason games. One year after he was dismissed, Lamar Lundy came to Purdue and played basketball and football. Today with your disposable money you can donate to the "Lamar Lundy League" who some will recall was part of the "Fearsome Foursome".

Lamar Lundy League - Purdue for Life Foundation

Join the Lamar Lundy League of the John Purdue Club. Support Purdue Athletics and honor the legacy of Lamar Lundy, a football legend.

www.purdueforlife.org

 

[Boiler Buck]

Ernie Hall, the first black basketball player at Purdue - an incredible talent whose career was cut short due to racism. Sad story. Purdue needs to honor this man.

Purdue's first Black player lost to history: 'I thought he was mistreated and a lot of people did.'

Ernie Hall played just nine games for Purdue before he was kicked off the team after an arrest. Charges were dropped, but he never returned.

www.indystar.com

Kicked off team for altercation. That's on the player.

I actually found most of the article very interesting and fascinating. While no doubt the player experienced terrible racism in his housing situation at Purdue. That is not why his career was cut short.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Kicked off team for altercation. That's on the player.

I actually found most of the article very interesting and fascinating. While no doubt the player experienced terrible racism in his housing situation at Purdue. That is not why his career was cut short.

Seems a bit excessive, and while I totally agree that we're all accountable for our actions, we'd be foolish to believe his race wasn't a contributing factor during those times.

 

[northside100]

Kicked off team for altercation. That's on the player.

I actually found most of the article very interesting and fascinating. While no doubt the player experienced terrible racism in his housing situation at Purdue. That is not why his career was cut short.

An altercation for which he was acquitted. I'm not saying that Hall was without blame but there are two questions to ask when examining the extent to which 'that's on the player'.

• Would a white player have received the same treatment?
• Did Purdue put him in situation where his odd's of an altercation or other issue were significantly increased by forcing him to live in a neighborhood with high crime rates versus housing white players in a much safer environment with less risk of conflict.

We all make choices and I'm all for personal accountability, but environment also plays a huge role and it's easy for those of us who have generally lived in a sheltered environment (myself included) to ignore that impact.

 

[Boiler Buck]

An altercation for which he was acquitted. I'm not saying that Hall was without blame but there are two questions to ask when examining the extent to which 'that's on the player'.

• Would a white player have received the same treatment?
• Did Purdue put him in situation where his odd's of an altercation or other issue were significantly increased by forcing him to live in a neighborhood with high crime rates versus housing white players in a much safer environment with less risk of conflict.

We all make choices and I'm all for personal accountability, but environment also plays a huge role and it's easy for those of us who have generally lived in a sheltered environment (myself included) to ignore that impact.

You may be right on all this, but don't believe we have the data to know the answer to your first question.

We do know racist policies at the time, Purdue University put him in a an inconvenient living situation. At least on the distance to campus. But we don't have data on crime in Lafayette, (population of about 26,000 @ the time) or crime in that small neighborhood at the time long ago. So to assume it was bad neighborhood, is at least questionable in such a small town. Still as a personal accountability guy, I will still say the altercation is still on him regardless. But I understand others who would say differently.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Seems a bit excessive, and while I totally agree that we're all accountable for our actions, we'd be foolish to believe his race wasn't a contributing factor during those times.

Contributing factor. That's fair.

 

[KenTre1983]

You may be right on all this, but don't believe we have the data to know the answer to your first question.

We do know racist policies at the time, Purdue University put him in a an inconvenient living situation. At least on the distance to campus. But we don't have data on crime in Lafayette, (population of about 26,000 @ the time) or crime in that small neighborhood at the time long ago. So to assume it was bad neighborhood, is at least questionable in such a small town. Still as a personal accountability guy, I will still say the altercation is still on him regardless. But I understand others who would say differently.

A guy hit on his wife - he hit the guy. That's not an unreasonable response, and he was acquited. He had no problems anywhere else he played. Yes, racism did have an impact on him being kicked off the team because it's highly unlikely a white player would have been kicked to the curb under these circumstances...especially if the other participant in the altercation were black.

 

[northside100]

You may be right on all this, but don't believe we have the data to know the answer to your first question.

We do know racist policies at the time, Purdue University put him in a an inconvenient living situation. At least on the distance to campus. But we don't have data on crime in Lafayette, (population of about 26,000 @ the time) or crime in that small neighborhood at the time long ago. So to assume it was bad neighborhood, is at least questionable in such a small town. Still as a personal accountability guy, I will still say the altercation is still on him regardless. But I understand others who would say differently.

Certainly within your rights to question the accuracy of the reporting. I'm taking Vaughan, Hall's teammate and a Lafayette attorney at his word when he is quoted as saying '“This was not a very good section of Lafayette to be living in,”, but you could be right.

Even if we put aside any discussion of personal accountability, the question remains, 'would a white player have been immediately kicked off the team based on similar circumstances and not reinstated when he was acquitted'. I don't have a definitive answer to the question. Others may be aware of how other players were treated during that time period when they got into trouble, but I suspect that the answer is no. I'll reiterate that my opinion here is in not meant to be specifically an indictment of Purdue, I think that the treatment was pretty common at the time.

 

[tjreese]

Seems a bit excessive, and while I totally agree that we're all accountable for our actions, we'd be foolish to believe his race wasn't a contributing factor during those times.

I believe that race was definitely a factor in the treatment of eating, housing and such. It was prevalent back then in many areas. Even back in the 90s at Cocoa Beach I had a son that became friends with a black whose father was in the military at Patrick (Melbourne, Fl) while on vacation and owners of condos around mine threw a surprise birthday party for me and he was invited to it. Later, I had some owners say they were surprised he was invited and quite frankly it surprised me that they not knowing anything about him would say such. This was a military son very polite and well mannered. One of those was a principal in New Haven Conn. who would purposely make an issue to slip by (so some could see him) the metal detector at school where he parked his car early so he could see it out his window. He wanted the students to think he was carrying. He obviously was tainted by his experiences in the school that colored his perception elsewhere. The other one was an ex marine and surprised me as well. Nothing derogatory was said to me about him...just surprise he was invited...

Still, I'll hold back on whether race had anything to do with the release (even though it doesn't matter , because the whole culture back then was more disciplinary that what we see today, and I know how much teams wanted to win... I remember knight over a decade later punishing 7 or so for smoking dope...can't remember how many were kicked off?

We do know this-"Indiana Coach Bob Knight has kicked his son off the team after the younger Knight’s arrest for public intoxication and disorderly conduct." We also know players kicked off for not showing up at class that were playing really well in practice...can you say John Brugos and Jeff Arnold. The release from a team is certainly not clear as to whether race was involved. It may very well be and it might not...

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Seems a bit excessive, and while I totally agree that we're all accountable for our actions, we'd be foolish to believe his race wasn't a contributing factor during those times.

Just makes you appreciate even more the other black athletes who were also tested with racist BS and somehow maintained self control. (I would have failed that test personally)

 

[BNIBoiler]

I believe that race was definitely a factor in the treatment of eating, housing and such. It was prevalent back then in many areas. Even back in the 90s at Cocoa Beach I had a son that became friends with a black whose father was in the military at Patrick (Melbourne, Fl) while on vacation and owners of condos around mine threw a surprise birthday party for me and he was invited to it. Later, I had some owners say they were surprised he was invited and quite frankly it surprised me that they not knowing anything about him would say such. This was a military son very polite and well mannered. One of those was a principal in New Haven Conn. who would purposely make an issue to slip by (so some could see him) the metal detector at school where he parked his car early so he could see it out his window. He wanted the students to think he was carrying. He obviously was tainted by his experiences in the school that colored his perception elsewhere. The other one was an ex marine and surprised me as well. Nothing derogatory was said to me about him...just surprise he was invited...

Still, I'll hold back on whether race had anything to do with the release (even though it doesn't matter , because the whole culture back then was more disciplinary that what we see today, and I know how much teams wanted to win... I remember knight over a decade later punishing 7 or so for smoking dope...can't remember how many were kicked off?

We do know this-"Indiana Coach Bob Knight has kicked his son off the team after the younger Knight’s arrest for public intoxication and disorderly conduct." We also know players kicked off for not showing up at class that were playing really well in practice...can you say John Brugos and Jeff Arnold. The release from a team is certainly not clear as to whether race was involved. It may very well be and it might not...

“a black”?

 

[tjreese]

“a black”?

yeah, this would have been sometime around 96/97 is my best guess

 

[tjreese]

Just makes you appreciate even more the other black athletes who were also tested with racist BS and somehow maintained self control. (I would have failed that test personally)

Ya know, better race relations came through music, sports and many in the military. In sports and the military you have to work together and it is much easier to like and appreciate those sharing in your goals and sacrifices.

 

[Boileratthebeach]

“a black”?

Blacks plural in another post. Don’t think he gets it.

 

[tjreese]

Blacks plural in another post. Don’t think he gets it.

no, I have absolutely no idea what was the intent. It was a black son of a black military officer that was invited. I'm battling dry eyes and so a plural I have no idea. I type substantially more than most and so a single word out of the countless opportunities I have no idea. Clue me in if you would?

 

[BoilerAndy]

Blacks plural in another post. Don’t think he gets it.

Are you guys implying tj is racist?

 

[KenTre1983]

Are you guys implying tj is racist?

Ding!Ding!Ding! We have a winner! Check the clip to see what you've won.

 

[tjreese]

It is quite fine if they do. I know BNI doesn't think Thomas Sowell is really a black and Thomas is probably the most admired man I hold. My deceased brother-in-law (who 60 minutes did a story on a bit over 30 years ago) was recognized as one of the best negotiators in the country having his training under the UAW and was on Woodcock staff started his own business representing management and had 95+% of the public sector contracts for the state of Ohio after the collective bargaining bill went through and put in without either side knowing MLK day off in schools in all the contracts and so yeah, there probably is reason to believe it runs in the family. My other brother-in-law was very good friends with Ulric Haynes RIP (Carter appointed him ambassador to Algiers and was one of the head negotiators with the Iranian crisis ) who left about 30K in an account for Jeff to take care of his horses while he was gone. He too was black and so I have two brother-in-laws that must have been racist making that blood line strong in the family. BTW his wife Yolande was very pretty (dated a bit Sidney Poitier). I could go on and on, but why? Opinions don't require knowledge.

 

[BNIBoiler]

It is quite fine if they do. I know BNI doesn't think Thomas Sowell is really a black and Thomas is probably the most admired man I hold. My deceased brother-in-law (who 60 minutes did a story on a bit over 30 years ago) was recognized as one of the best negotiators in the country having his training under the UAW and was on Woodcock staff started his own business representing management and had 95+% of the public sector contracts for the state of Ohio after the collective bargaining bill went through and put in without either side knowing MLK day off in schools in all the contracts and so yeah, there probably is reason to believe it runs in the family. My other brother-in-law was very good friends with Ulric Haynes RIP (Carter appointed him ambassador to Algiers and was one of the head negotiators with the Iranian crisis ) who left about 30K in an account for Jeff to take care of his horses while he was gone. He too was black and so I have two brother-in-laws that must have been racist making that blood line strong in the family. BTW his wife Yolande was very pretty (dated a bit Sidney Poitier). I could go on and on, but why? Opinions don't require knowledge.

Yes I do know that Thomas Sowell was “a black”.

 

[tjreese]

Yes I do know that Thomas Sowell was “a black”.

You don't recognize him as a black. You don't value a man that I think is incredibly bright, well read, and one that millions would be better off to read his decades of studies and support of that he writes and that is fine. I don't think you value Ben Carson either as a smart person above his medical work. The reality is we value different things as I just mentioned two incredibly bright blacks that I value and you not so much.

There are always going to be people that hold a different opinion and many if not most get that through Osmosis rather than study. He disagrees with the feelings you hold and you and I both know that. Now, I'm not going to call anyone racist that doesn't like this intellectual icon on culture, economics and race relations, but I will bet that those that have taken to type on the subject probably have never read ONE of his books to have an informed opinion on a lot of things. It is what it is. The average person may be lacking in a lot of understanding on various things, but remember 50% is below average. That same person may know things on his island of knowledge as well.

When we try to go back in time whether reading the bible or any other historic event with 20th century eyes we may not only miss the context, we might think we know what was really said totally unaware of the perspective. All of us have islands of knowledge. Some Islands are bigger than others, but all are dwarfed by the sea (that which we don't know)