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Since Tiller was hired, besides Kory Sheets

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BoilerFYF

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Sep 22, 2018
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is there any back that you’d rather go to battle with other than Knox?

This guy has to be related to Mike Rose, as both players made/make me feel like they’d jump into an explosion head first to get a victory.

I can understand if some say that qualitatively, Harris or Bolden were as good or better, but I’d rather have DJ Knox. Not just for his performances, but for the way guys feed off of him.

As an aside, Markell is not bad this year, but would you rather have freshman Markell or this Markell.
 
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BoilerFYF said:
is there any back that you’d rather go to battle with other than Knox?

This guy has to be related to Mike Rose, as both players made/make me feel like they’d jump into an explosion head first to get a victory.

I can understand if some say that qualitatively, Harris or Bolden were as good or better, but I’d rather have DJ Knox. Not just for his performances, but for the way guys feed off of him.

As an aside, Markell is not bad this year, but would you rather have freshman Markell or this Markell.
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Ralph Bolden was a top 3 or 4 conference back when healthy...and that's saying something with Whisky, Iowa, PSU, UM, OSU,and MSU all having great RB traditions.

If we are allowed all of Tiller's years, Edwin Watson was real good and even came close to 1,000 yards in Tiller's first year in 1997. He even caught 31 passes for 411 yards. He was a real good total RB that made that 1997 team more dual threat than it appeared.

Had Lowe ever figured out his fumblroski problems, he could easily be a good discussion guy in this. His fumble issues and getting recruited over with Joey Harris because of his fumble issues led to him being used less over his last two years. His first three seasons he ended up rushing for 2,479 yards.

Joey Harris only played two seasons at Purdue but had 1115 yards in 2002.

Jerod Void ended up with 2429 rushing yards in his four years and 36 touchdowns. That's a pretty impressive career number, especially when you include his 300 yards receiving as well. It gets even more impressive when you think that he split a fair amount of carries with Brandon Jones as well (1661 total rushing yards and 10 TD's). If Void didn't have a player splitting that many carries with him, Void could easily have been a 3,000 yard rusher which would have pushed him to #4 on the all time list. Void also ranks #3 in total rushing TD's with 36.

However, you simply can't argue with how good Kory Sheets was. #2 on the all time rushing yards list with 3341 total and #1 on the all time TD's list with 49. Not to mention Sheets was a threat out of the backfield to catch passes with 814 total yards and 5 TD's.

If I had to make a since Tiller-era list:
Sheets (the guy holds the CFL record for rushing yards and had he not had a horrible knee injury, would be a feature NFL back right now)
Void
Bolden (when healthy)
Harris
Lowe (bump Lowe up to #3 if he could have figured out his fumble issues...I think he had multiple games of 3 or more, correct one being at ND?)
 
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1. Sheets
2. Watson

If not for Joe Tiller, Billy Dicken would never have had a career in AFL nor be coaching today at ILL St. He wouldn't even have had a Wikipedia page. The same principle applies to Watson. Both may have been recruited by Colletto but prospered because of Tiller

Harris had one good year then flunked out
 
On a related note, I have loved a lot of our RB recruits and have had some very high hopes for them, but none of them have come close to their talents as Boilermakers.

And I blame their lack of success directly at our offensive line. In the past 5 years, I have not seen one year where our offensive line recruits were elite, or a year that pointed to our offensive line as the featured part of any class. For the most part, it's an afterthought. Looking at our remaining 4/5 athletes we're hoping to still sign, none is an offensive lineman. Surely, 4/5 star offensive linemen do exist.

When was the last time Purdue actually recruited and signed a 4/5 star lineman? Has it ever happened? And that's a HUGE issue. Even Knight and the kid from CC that went to IU were only 3star lineman. If we can attract 4 star players at skilled positions, why don't we recruit and sign elite offensive linemen? And we are constantly recruiting offensive linemen that require 2-3 years before they actually contribute. This is not conducive to building a successful offensive line if every year you are replacing somebody. It would be nice rather than developing offensive linemen and 4/5 star WRs, We could start recruiting elite 4/5 linemen who are already developed.

Sure the point could be made Purdue has sent 1-2 offensive linemen to the NFL, but never more than I per season, and nowhere close to what UW and Iowa have produced. I'm not even going to try to compare us to OSU lineman. And the thing is, it doesn't take OSU 2-3 years to develop their lineman.

I would much rather build our team around an elite offensive line than elite skill position players. Look at UW and USC. With their elite line, their mediocre RBs become all Americans. I say that because as high school recruits their RBs weren't any better than ours. UW doesn't recruit 4/5 star RBs, but they sure become great behind their line.
 
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Wolegib said:
When was the last time Purdue actually recruited and signed a 4/5 star lineman? Has it ever happened? And that's a HUGE issue. Even Knight and the kid from CC that went to IU were only 3star lineman. If we can attract 4 star players at skilled positions, why don't we recruit and sign elite offensive linemen? And we are constantly recruiting offensive linemen that require 2-3 years before they actually contribute. This is not conducive to building a successful offensive line if every year you are replacing somebody. It would be nice rather than developing offensive linemen and 4/5 star WRs, We could start recruiting elite 4/5 linemen who are already developed.

Sure the point could be made Purdue has sent 1-2 offensive linemen to the NFL, but never more than I per season, and nowhere close to what UW and Iowa have produced. I'm not even going to try to compare us to OSU lineman. And the thing is, it doesn't take OSU 2-3 years to develop their lineman.

I would much rather build our team around an elite offensive line than elite skill position players. Look at UW and USC. With their elite line, their mediocre RBs become all Americans. I say that because as high school recruits their RBs weren't any better than ours. UW doesn't recruit 4/5 star RBs, but they sure become great behind their line.
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Ken Plue was a 4* on Rivals-listed as 7th best OT in nation. Dennis Kelly was a high 3*-cant think of anyone else, though?
 
nat100 said:
Yeah, harris was the most talented back of the tiller era by far. 10 or 11 wins in 2003 if he is eligible. Ugh.
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He looked good on the cover of the GBI football preview issue though, didn't he? :p
 
boiler2288 said:
Ken Plue was a 4* on Rivals-listed as 7th best OT in nation. Dennis Kelly was a high 3*-cant think of anyone else, though?
Click to expand...

And that's my point exactly. I remember Plue and had high hopes for him. But one 4star offensive lineman in 10 years? The last time I looked you need 5 offensive linemen. When was the last time we recruited more than 1 elite lineman, or for that matter more than 3 quality linemen in any recruiting class? Offensive lineman have never been Purdue's top recruiting targets. And I believe we have suffered because of it.

Look at Michigan. One of their top recruits and first recruits and was that 5 stAr offensive lineman from Indy.
 
Wolegib said:
And that's my point exactly. I remember Plue and had high hopes for him. But one 4star offensive lineman in 10 years? The last time I looked you need 5 offensive linemen. When was the last time we recruited more than 1 elite lineman, or for that matter more than 3 quality linemen in any recruiting class? Offensive lineman have never been Purdue's top recruiting targets. And I believe we have suffered because of it.

Look at Michigan. One of their top recruits and first recruits and was that 5 stAr offensive lineman from Indy.
Click to expand...

Define quality. Purdue's best linemen of the last 20 years were a converted TE and a walkon
 
Wolegib said:
And that's my point exactly. I remember Plue and had high hopes for him. But one 4star offensive lineman in 10 years? The last time I looked you need 5 offensive linemen. When was the last time we recruited more than 1 elite lineman, or for that matter more than 3 quality linemen in any recruiting class? Offensive lineman have never been Purdue's top recruiting targets. And I believe we have suffered because of it.

Look at Michigan. One of their top recruits and first recruits and was that 5 stAr offensive lineman from Indy.
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OL and DL are probably the hardest to project given the size differences and complexity of blocking schemes when compared to high school to college. It is also the hardest, I believe to be physically prepared for which is why most recruits end up red shirting their freshman year. Of the benefits to the four game allowance for red shirting players, offensive line is probably the most benefited as they can beef them up all year and have them ready to play in the last four games to prepare them for the speed of the game and still have four years remaining.

My guess is that there will be some guys on the offensive line at Purdue that will see some time given the need for depth this season and that Purdue loses its top three interior lineman. Wouldn't mind getting Beach, Bramel, McKenna, and DJ Washington some PT if Purdue is able to grab a couple TD lead late in some games or to give some OL a 2 or 3 snap rest in the second quarter.
 
After reading this thread, it's clear we've had some pretty terrific backs. My immediate thought was Bolden, but Sheets and Harris were also pretty amazing. Purely in terms of their time at Purdue, I'd rank them:

1) Sheets
2) Bolden
3) Harris
4) Watson
5) Void

Bolden's intangibles (blocking) push him past Harris for me. Void was really good and was a touchdown machine, but Sheets, Bolden, and Harris were more explosive.
 
JohnnyDoeBoiler said:
Ralph Bolden was a top 3 or 4 conference back when healthy...and that's saying something with Whisky, Iowa, PSU, UM, OSU,and MSU all having great RB traditions.

If we are allowed all of Tiller's years, Edwin Watson was real good and even came close to 1,000 yards in Tiller's first year in 1997. He even caught 31 passes for 411 yards. He was a real good total RB that made that 1997 team more dual threat than it appeared.

Had Lowe ever figured out his fumblroski problems, he could easily be a good discussion guy in this. His fumble issues and getting recruited over with Joey Harris because of his fumble issues led to him being used less over his last two years. His first three seasons he ended up rushing for 2,479 yards.

Joey Harris only played two seasons at Purdue but had 1115 yards in 2002.

Jerod Void ended up with 2429 rushing yards in his four years and 36 touchdowns. That's a pretty impressive career number, especially when you include his 300 yards receiving as well. It gets even more impressive when you think that he split a fair amount of carries with Brandon Jones as well (1661 total rushing yards and 10 TD's). If Void didn't have a player splitting that many carries with him, Void could easily have been a 3,000 yard rusher which would have pushed him to #4 on the all time list. Void also ranks #3 in total rushing TD's with 36.

However, you simply can't argue with how good Kory Sheets was. #2 on the all time rushing yards list with 3341 total and #1 on the all time TD's list with 49. Not to mention Sheets was a threat out of the backfield to catch passes with 814 total yards and 5 TD's.

If I had to make a since Tiller-era list:
Sheets (the guy holds the CFL record for rushing yards and had he not had a horrible knee injury, would be a feature NFL back right now)
Void
Bolden (when healthy)
Harris
Lowe (bump Lowe up to #3 if he could have figured out his fumble issues...I think he had multiple games of 3 or more, correct one being at ND?)
Click to expand...

That backfield with Watson and a healthy Kendall Matthews was pretty amazing.
 
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RDUBoiler said:
After reading this thread, it's clear we've had some pretty terrific backs. My immediate thought was Bolden, but Sheets and Harris were also pretty amazing. Purely in terms of their time at Purdue, I'd rank them:

1) Sheets
2) Bolden
3) Harris
4) Watson
5) Void

Bolden's intangibles (blocking) push him past Harris for me. Void was really good and was a touchdown machine, but Sheets, Bolden, and Harris were more explosive.
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Id put Akeem Hunt up there. More total yards than Void. Problem was, he played for Shoop so no touchdowns. Womp Womp.
 
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Jaycen Taylor went basically his entire collegiate career, nearly 300 carries, without taking a loss on a carry. That's significant. He's the guy Knox reminds me most of - not a prototype in terms of size or speed or shiftiness, but tough as nails, hard to tackle, never taking a loss.
 
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gr8indoorsman said:
Jaycen Taylor went basically his entire collegiate career, nearly 300 carries, without taking a loss on a carry. That's significant. He's the guy Knox reminds me most of - not a prototype in terms of size or speed or shiftiness, but tough as nails, hard to tackle, never taking a loss.
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He was definitely shifty and sneaky quick
 
It appears a couple of my biggest critics agree with my assertions. Beach is a prime example. he was one of Brohm's first OL recruits taking over for Hazell and a late flip / addition to our team. he didn't play a down last year, and how much has he played this year? We had high hopes for him,, but basically, he's at least a 2-3 year project. Next year will be his third year at Purdue. Will he start? or just provide depth? We need players who are ready to contribute as freshmen and start at least by year 3. .

You say it's hard to say how a lineman will turn out? isn't that the same as any other football recruit? Moore was a 4 star recruit. I'd say the rating was pretty accurate. bell is a 4 star WR, and you believe he will equal his rating. You believe KF is a 5 star defensive lineman based on his ratings, and the same with Weaver. So how can you say you never know how good a 4/5 star offensive lineman will be? I believe they are just as good and their ratings are just as accurate.

the problem is you never know how good a 4/5 star lineman is, because Purdue never recruits any. Purdue recruits projects and hopes to develop them. Just think how great Purdue's offensive line would be if Purdue actually recruited elite 4/5 star offensive lineman and developed them?

Sure, there are not many of them. But there aren't that many 4/5 star WRs and DBs and QBs either. and yet, we target them and don't target 4/5 star linemen.

We've recruited some great RBs. the one from Georgia was supposed to be great. But placed behind a mediocre line, he became a no name.

Just think how great our QBs, Wrs and RBS would be if we made elite offensive linemen our TOP targets. Iowa is one of the most boring college teams, but look at the offensive linemen they've produced. Look at UW every year. look at Michigan and OSU, and Georgia and Alabama. They all target elite offensive linemen. To get to the next level, that's what Purdue also needs to start doing. We can easily be 7-5 with our current talent. But if we have hopes of becoming a consistent 9-2 team, we need to start recruiting elite linemen as heavily as we recruit skill players.

and if we do not, your list of great running backs mentioned in this thread above is NEVER going to grow either.
 
Wolegib said:
It appears a couple of my biggest critics agree with my assertions. Beach is a prime example. he was one of Brohm's first OL recruits taking over for Hazell and a late flip / addition to our team. he didn't play a down last year, and how much has he played this year? We had high hopes for him,, but basically, he's at least a 2-3 year project. Will he start next year? or just provide depth?
Click to expand...

You want Beach to start over a Rimington candidate?
 
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Wolegib said:
It appears a couple of my biggest critics agree with my assertions. Beach is a prime example. he was one of Brohm's first OL recruits taking over for Hazell and a late flip / addition to our team. he didn't play a down last year, and how much has he played this year? We had high hopes for him,, but basically, he's at least a 2-3 year project. Next year will be his third year at Purdue. Will he start? or just provide depth? We need players who are ready to contribute as freshmen and start at least by year 3. .

You say it's hard to say how a lineman will turn out? isn't that the same as any other football recruit? Moore was a 4 star recruit. I'd say the rating was pretty accurate. bell is a 4 star WR, and you believe he will equal his rating. You believe KF is a 5 star defensive lineman based on his ratings, and the same with Weaver. So how can you say you never know how good a 4/5 star offensive lineman will be? I believe they are just as good and their ratings are just as accurate.

the problem is you never know how good a 4/5 star lineman is, because Purdue never recruits any. Purdue recruits projects and hopes to develop them. Just think how great Purdue's offensive line would be if Purdue actually recruited elite 4/5 star offensive lineman and developed them?

Sure, there are not many of them. But there aren't that many 4/5 star WRs and DBs and QBs either. and yet, we target them and don't target 4/5 star linemen.

We've recruited some great RBs. the one from Georgia was supposed to be great. But placed behind a mediocre line, he became a no name.

Just think how great our QBs, Wrs and RBS would be if we made elite offensive linemen our TOP targets. Iowa is one of the most boring college teams, but look at the offensive linemen they've produced. Look at UW every year. look at Michigan and OSU, and Georgia and Alabama. They all target elite offensive linemen. To get to the next level, that's what Purdue also needs to start doing. We can easily be 7-5 with our current talent. But if we have hopes of becoming a consistent 9-2 team, we need to start recruiting elite linemen as heavily as we recruit skill players.

and if we do not, your list of great running backs mentioned in this thread above is NEVER going to grow either.
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I agree O lineman are very important, but your tone comes across as "just do it" rather than a strategy. As if all we have to do is recruit them and they will come to Purdue. Most blue chippers want to go to a perennial power unless there is something to sway them otherwise. That works for receivers and quarterbacks. We have Brohm's offense and the cradle of quarterbacks to sell. But most high rated OL don't want to pass block 40-50 times a game. This was a problem back in the Tiller days, too, which is why instead of chasing highly rated linemen only to lose them to ND or Michigan, he targeted undersized athletic guys and beefing them up. You have to play your angles.

Another angle you can play is targeting late bloomers. This is a position in which if you have good scouting, you can find diamonds in the rough. Guys come out of nowhere their senior year due to a growth spurts or finally growing into or shaping their big bodies. Add them after the big boys have signed. The last thing I'll mention is this is a position in which healthy competition can be promoted by recruiting numbers. I've always been an advocate of recruiting extra OL and see who develops over 2-3 years, and recruit over the ones that don't. This is essentially the Dantonio model.
 
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RDUBoiler said:
After reading this thread, it's clear we've had some pretty terrific backs. My immediate thought was Bolden, but Sheets and Harris were also pretty amazing. Purely in terms of their time at Purdue, I'd rank them:

1) Sheets
2) Bolden
3) Harris
4) Watson
5) Void

Bolden's intangibles (blocking) push him past Harris for me. Void was really good and was a touchdown machine, but Sheets, Bolden, and Harris were more explosive.
Click to expand...

Where is Knox in this. The thing to me guys with sheets is that he was much worse between the tackles than outside of them. Not true of bolden, knox, Harris, Watson etc
 
gr8indoorsman said:
Jaycen Taylor went basically his entire collegiate career, nearly 300 carries, without taking a loss on a carry. That's significant. He's the guy Knox reminds me most of - not a prototype in terms of size or speed or shiftiness, but tough as nails, hard to tackle, never taking a loss.
Click to expand...

Knox is definitely like Taylor, but with physical attributes that are much more true to the position. Taylor gave great effort.
 
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