We are all concerned in the direction of the recruiting and its lack of 3star 2star kids. Its a game of relationships What we need is to establish a ourselves in the Chicago Catholic League and suburbs once again. I don't know how Purdue can ignore Chicago where we do have alumni, talent and a decent reputation up until 2-3 years ago. This is the first year I can remember that we don't have a recruit from there. There are plenty of kids in the CCL going to D1 schools over 35 I believe and we don't have any relationships with coaches or players. That is why we lag behind everyone in the Big Ten. It won't change until we change our effort and emphasis in and around CHicago. We used to get 5-8 kids from there every year and some damm good players too. Frank Kmet son Purdue alumni at Viator didn't even look at us and he's going to ND That sucks!! COme on DH lets have a plan to retake some of Chicago once again and return us to our glory days
Recruiting … Chicago what a novel idea!!
- Thread starter goodboiler
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Totally agree, many many great players, and the best pizza in the nation. West Lafayette is really just like a southern suburb ov the City. Get after it CDH!!
I'm not sure DH has a relationship with any coaches at any level.
And Cole Kmet's mother is Jeff Zgonina's sister. We didn't even offer him. Derpel Haze is still probably taking a hard look at his film.
This is something I've actually heard from a few high school coaches. Hazell isn't personable and doesn't show up at the coaches clinic in Indy. Meanwhile, IU's coach was there making his face known and chatting up coaches and buying drinks in the lounge. Wonder why IU has improved? Maybe it's because their coach gives a damn about making roads in to the high school.
We've ignored a lot of obvious areas for the last 10 years...
Why should he.........he has all the answers in his binders!
You mean to have a football coach that would take a page out of Jack`s book on recruiting. Get tough kids from the south side and the midwest he did and only beat ND 10 TIMES!!
This. The seeds were planted for this a long, long time ago.
Danny Hope almost wholly ignored Indiana....maybe worse than Hazell has and it hurts us to this day. Not putting all the blame for where we are on Hope but while his win/loss record is better than our current coach he didn't do the fan base any favors at moving the program forward.
Think back to some of our better players when we were good from like 1997-2006. Where were they from? It wasn't from the "state of Purdue" They were from Indiana. Mike Neal. Ryan Kerrigan. Ryan Baker. Ka'waan Short. Anthony Spencer. Bernard Pollard. Stanford Keglar.
Outside of that, the list is bigger of guys who were better than average contributors from the state.
Whoever the next guy is HAS to get back to cultivating those relationships with in state coaches. We have to land 1-2 of the top 5 in IN and maybe 5 of the top 10 and a few other decent prospects from the state if we want to get back to where we were when we were winning 8-9 games a year. Indiana football talent has come a LONG way over the past 10 years too....which sucks....it directly coincides with the time that we weren't getting top in state talent.
If anyone remembers Albert Evans look at his Twitter account around signing day. He coaches at a school in the Chicago area that regularly produces d1 talent. Said hazell and crew never stepped foot on campus.
Odd
Odd
Several posts back this very issue was covered in great detail. Most that responded supported the philosophy of Purdue rummaging through the left overs of TX and FL..... No Talent in Indiana???? Chicago??? Kenna Turnner??
Michigan,ND and others sure can find the Indiana talent. For those who say "But are program is not up to par with Mich and ND"
Many told Jim Young the same thing and we see what happened in that case.
Michigan,ND and others sure can find the Indiana talent. For those who say "But are program is not up to par with Mich and ND"
Many told Jim Young the same thing and we see what happened in that case.
I'm not an Indiana guy, so I've never understood this "we must recruit Indiana" thing. If hazell has good Ohio ties, I'll take that. Hope had Florida ties. Really it doesn't matter to me as long as the kids can play.
Do schools like Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin say that they must lock down their state to be successful?
It's funny somebody brought up tiller, because the thing associated with him is getting Texas kids.
But we need to have some strategy.... And not a nonsensical one like "state of Purdue".
Do schools like Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin say that they must lock down their state to be successful?
It's funny somebody brought up tiller, because the thing associated with him is getting Texas kids.
But we need to have some strategy.... And not a nonsensical one like "state of Purdue".
Tiller still got good players out of Indiana. If you can keep Michigan state and iu from getting certain players it is worth the effort.
Also. Lol at hazell and recruiting Ohio. He never had the ties Burke claimed he did
I can't back this up statistically, but I would half of Purdue's really good NFL players over the last 15 years are from Indiana. Just a few off the top of my head:
Bernard Pollard, Ryan Kerrigan, Kawann short, Anthony Spencer, Craig Terrill, Dustin Keller, Chike Okeafor, Rosey Colvin, Mike Neal.
Probably a few more that I am missing.
Of course Purdue's always going to have players from Indiana. Some will be pro. What we need to examine is the amount of pros Indiana produces compared to other states. The talent just isn't there.
I just don't understand the sentiment that we need to lock down Indiana and everything will be fine. Maybe in basketball that's true, but in football I think we need a broader approach.
Like I said, if hazell was dedicated to getting Ohio, I'd take that. Really I'd take anything that resembles a well thought out plan.
I just don't understand the sentiment that we need to lock down Indiana and everything will be fine. Maybe in basketball that's true, but in football I think we need a broader approach.
Like I said, if hazell was dedicated to getting Ohio, I'd take that. Really I'd take anything that resembles a well thought out plan.
"Of course Purdue's always going to have players from Indiana. Some will be pro."
This is flawed logic. Future NFL players from Indiana will not "always" go to Purdue. Most of the guys I listed above were rated as top 5-10 players in the state coming out of high school. Hazell is not getting those caliber of players now, and neither did Hope.
We have a better shot of getting top Indiana kids than we do of getting top players from out of state. Do we need to get players from out of state? Of course, but we put ourselves at an immediate disadvantage by conceding the Indiana kids right off the bat.
And the metro Indy area is producing a ton of talent right now. Sadly, we are getting very little of it. I would have a couple assistants live in Indy, and hang out at Warren, Ben Davis, Center Grove, Carmel, HSE, Avon, etc, as often as is allowed.
Tiller didn't recruit well in Indy. He got his players from the region. Hope got a couple from there as well, but not as many
Keglar, Baker, AT Simpson, Werner, and Paxson were all bigger recruits than anyone Hope or Hazell landed from the area.
My point is Tiller recruited Indy better than any coach we have had since at least Burtnett. And those are just 5 off the top of my head. I can name more.
And I doubt you could name 5 more highly ranked recruits from the region that Tiller signed, than these 5.
Highly ranked? No. Productive? Neal and short blow that list away by themselves
Yes, but 2 recruits over 12 years doesn't disprove my point, which is that Tiller recruited Indy better than any coach since Burtnett.
I am aware of that. My point is that Tiller signed more highly ranked recruits from the Indy area than any other recent Purdue coach.
Where's the flaw in my logic? There's a major flaw in your logic if you read what I wrote and think an equivalent statement is "future NFL players will always go to Purdue".
I'm not saying we concede the Indiana kids. This isn't a zero sum game. Some on here say "lock up Indiana and we'll be great". I guess that's one way, but not the only recruiting method. It's unlikely we lock up the state with two other high D1 schools anyway.
Unless there's some conspiracy against kids from Indiana, it's easily proven that there isn't as much talent compared to the surrounding states, let alone the south.
Some of you guys are just so touchy about the talent pool. "Indy has a ton of talent". A ton compared to what? Chicago? Columbus? Cincinnati? Detroit? St. Louis? All those regional cities have much more talent.
Just seems like a weird thing Indiana people say. Doesn't matter to me where the kids are from. If a coach wants to focus on Chicago or Ohio, where there's a lot more talent, I have no problem with that.
I'm not saying we concede the Indiana kids. This isn't a zero sum game. Some on here say "lock up Indiana and we'll be great". I guess that's one way, but not the only recruiting method. It's unlikely we lock up the state with two other high D1 schools anyway.
Unless there's some conspiracy against kids from Indiana, it's easily proven that there isn't as much talent compared to the surrounding states, let alone the south.
Some of you guys are just so touchy about the talent pool. "Indy has a ton of talent". A ton compared to what? Chicago? Columbus? Cincinnati? Detroit? St. Louis? All those regional cities have much more talent.
Just seems like a weird thing Indiana people say. Doesn't matter to me where the kids are from. If a coach wants to focus on Chicago or Ohio, where there's a lot more talent, I have no problem with that.
You said, "Of course Purdue's always going to have players from Indiana. Some will be pro."
This statement is not true. If you are not recruiting the best in-state players, your in-state players won't go pro.
Of course we need recruits from out of state, but the fact is, we have a better chance to get the best players from Indy, the Region, or Fort Wayne, than we do to get the best players from Cincinnati, Chicago, or Detroit.
If it's easily proven, then show me where those cities produce more talent per capita than the Indy area - recently.
My guess is you don't live around Indy. It's a football town now.
I have no hard data but I'd bet Indy and Indiana as a whole is pumping out double the D1 talent it did 10 years ago. And these are 10 years where we have done a very poor job in state.
DH just can't evaluate. He offered one kid from CC in Lafayette with NAIA offers. He passed on a kid on the same team with D1 offers and was at a position of need. Recruited Truitt out of WL who I will be shocked if he ever plays.
You're already backing off the original statement.... "Indy has a ton of talent" is not the same as per capita talent. I could at least concede that recruiting Indiana is important if indeed it produced a ton of talent. However, what's the point of locking up a state with high per capita talent? Nevertheless, here's what shows up in the rivals 250:
IN: 3 players (2 from ft Wayne, 1 from Avon... So Avon must be the football capital of Indiana since it seemingly has the highest per capita talent.
IL: 3
OH: 11
MI: 8
Compared to neighboring states, Indiana is nothing special. When you consider how much talent comes out of the south, I don't know how anyone can claim that Indiana produces a "ton" of talent.
IN: 3 players (2 from ft Wayne, 1 from Avon... So Avon must be the football capital of Indiana since it seemingly has the highest per capita talent.
IL: 3
OH: 11
MI: 8
Compared to neighboring states, Indiana is nothing special. When you consider how much talent comes out of the south, I don't know how anyone can claim that Indiana produces a "ton" of talent.
I believe everyone here, with the possible exception of you, understood I meant per capita, since Chicago, Cincinnati, and Detroit are all much bigger than Indy, just as Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois are all much bigger than the state of Indiana. And randomly cherry picking 1 rivals list doesn't prove anything.
The fact is, we have a better shot at getting the best players from Indiana, than we do getting the best players from other states. Why do you think so many of our NFL Players came from in-state? They didn't just fall into our lap. Tiller and his staff built relationships with the HS coaches, went and saw the players more often than out of state programs, and often times discovered them before anyone else did. We won't be able to do that "down south".
I know it was a different time but Purdue needs to bring in an aggressive Ron Meyer type-as recruiting coordinator . Under "The Ripper" in the 60's Meyer was responsible for getting more Chicago area talent to WL than any other BIG10 school or ND for that matter-all that was needed was an AD (Red Mackey) or Pres (Hovde) to look the other way. Someone like Chris Ash(now Rutgers HC) was like when he recruited Chicago for Bret Bielma or a young guy like Chris Partridge at Mich-a guy willing to work 24-7 and visit every HS in suburbs and Chicago Public/Cathlic Leagues. I doubt anyone from PU under Hazell has stepped foot or showed his face in a HS in the West Suburban Conference, DuPage Valley or North Suburban Conference ( these are large 3,000 enrollment schools on average) in several years
I agree completely. We need an assistant coach who already has proven success recruiting Chicago players
Then your saying ,hire Brock Spack. He is from the Rockford area and does know Chicago schools. Done deal for a good coach and a hell of a football player.
You're right, I didn't think you were talking per capita because you never mentioned that phrase. Once again, that's even more absurd if you think we should lock down Indiana because it has high per capita talent. Absolute quantity is what matters here, not a qualified quantity based on state population.
But let's go down that per capita road anyway...
IL: 3 / 12.9M = .24
IN: 3 / 6.5M = .46
OH: 11/ 9.9M = 1.1
MI: 8 / 9.9M = .81
Uh oh, even going by talent per million residents, Indiana is nothing special. And again, the southern states, especially in per capita terms, blow out the midwest in terms of talent.
So once again, I'm not sure how anyone can claim with a straight face that Indiana produces a "ton of talent".
Yes it's one list. Would you like for me to look at other years as well? At what point will the sample size make you reject your original statement? You're right, I don't live in Indy. But sometimes being further from the situation helps one to see things more clearly.
I agree that by location alone, it's easier to recruit Indiana than other states. But in a state that doesn't have a lot of talent to begin with (not to mention fighting with ND and IU for the best), I think the coach needs a more progressive philosophy than "Oh I'll just focus on Indiana - since they're the easiest kids to get". Chicago is an obvious place, and I'm really disappointed in how we've recruited Ohio, especially since we were told that Hazell had a lot of connections there.
But let's go down that per capita road anyway...
IL: 3 / 12.9M = .24
IN: 3 / 6.5M = .46
OH: 11/ 9.9M = 1.1
MI: 8 / 9.9M = .81
Uh oh, even going by talent per million residents, Indiana is nothing special. And again, the southern states, especially in per capita terms, blow out the midwest in terms of talent.
So once again, I'm not sure how anyone can claim with a straight face that Indiana produces a "ton of talent".
Yes it's one list. Would you like for me to look at other years as well? At what point will the sample size make you reject your original statement? You're right, I don't live in Indy. But sometimes being further from the situation helps one to see things more clearly.
I agree that by location alone, it's easier to recruit Indiana than other states. But in a state that doesn't have a lot of talent to begin with (not to mention fighting with ND and IU for the best), I think the coach needs a more progressive philosophy than "Oh I'll just focus on Indiana - since they're the easiest kids to get". Chicago is an obvious place, and I'm really disappointed in how we've recruited Ohio, especially since we were told that Hazell had a lot of connections there.
You would have to be an idiot to think I meant Indy had more absolute players than Chicago, which has a population 3 or 4 times the size of Indy. And again. picking 1 random rivals 250 list proves nothing. Look up a list showing all P5 or Div 1 signees over a 5 year period.
No one is arguing that we should only recruit in-state. I am arguing that we have a better chance at recruiting the BEST players from this state, than we do the best players from other states, which Danny Hope proved so spectacularly. We aren't getting a Kerrigan or Kawann out of Florida or Georgia. We will get them only if we are on them first, or they grew up fans of Purdue, or their parents went to Purdue, or they went to our camps, etc.
Right, so let's look at the data in a different way. This is from ESPN's 2015 rankings:
IN
Best prospect rating: 81
10th best rating: 76
20th best: 74
30th best: 65
IL
Best: 93
10th: 79
20th: 77
30th: 75
OH
Best: 90
10th: 80
20th: 78
30th: 77
MI
Best: 83
10th: 76
20th: 74
30th: 72
PA
Best: 83
10th: 79
20th: 76
30th: 75
It appears that Indiana neither has the top end talent nor depth of surrounding states. No matter how much Indiana residents want this to be true, IN does not produce a ton of talent in football.
IN
Best prospect rating: 81
10th best rating: 76
20th best: 74
30th best: 65
IL
Best: 93
10th: 79
20th: 77
30th: 75
OH
Best: 90
10th: 80
20th: 78
30th: 77
MI
Best: 83
10th: 76
20th: 74
30th: 72
PA
Best: 83
10th: 79
20th: 76
30th: 75
It appears that Indiana neither has the top end talent nor depth of surrounding states. No matter how much Indiana residents want this to be true, IN does not produce a ton of talent in football.
It is not a lot of talent, but we need to get the 2nd-5th best players in the state every year. Reality is when we get that Parade All-American he is going to go to ND, Ohio State, Michigan. We need to not focus everything on Indiana, but start beating IU again with in-state players as well as not letting other mid-level teams come in and take players. Indiana has been good to Purdue historically. Not saying NOT to recruit Texas or Florida or Ohio, but make sure we get the players in-state who are pretty good.
