Priority of pushing the ball .....

[Boiler Buck]

One thing I would have loved to see more of last night.....Purdue getting rebounds and running before D gets set. They didn't see the priority of a quick score last night. Too much waiting on Edey. To me this is a coaching decision, that needs to be changed. Push it.

Early in the season we saw this with Jones & Smith pushing it. Was GREAT. Either lay-ups or secondary break 3s. Would have liked to have seen this more last night. It was non existent for the most part.....and there were times it was available. It's not like there would have been more TOs or more empty possessions. Plenty of both last night. LOL

 

[Dryfly88]

I don't disagree at all, but we were taking the ball out of the basket an awful lot because our defense couldn't stop them. Much harder to push on a make. But i do agree, when available push the tempo.

 

[John Hall]

One thing I would have loved to see more of last night.....Purdue getting rebounds and running before D gets set. They didn't see the priority of a quick score last night. Too much waiting on Edey. To me this is a coaching decision, that needs to be changed. Push it.

Early in the season we saw this with Jones & Smith pushing it. Was GREAT. Either lay-ups or secondary break 3s. Would have liked to have seen this more last night. It was non existent for the most part.....and there were times it was available. It's not like there would have been more TOs or more empty possessions. Plenty of both last night. LOL

I totally agree with this. I can’t for the life of me remember though if NW got back in transition D after misses or if it was a conscious/coaching decision to slow that down. But I do remember saying push it after a few misses and we didn’t 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️.

 

[typeviic]

I don't disagree at all, but we were taking the ball out of the basket an awful lot because our defense couldn't stop them. Much harder to push on a make. But i do agree, when available push the tempo.

Also harder to "push" when they only turn it over 3 times. Also, 50% from 3. Those are statistical outliers.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Also harder to "push" when they only turn it over 3 times. Also, 50% from 3. Those are statistical outliers.

It's not mentioned on this board much, but we've had a problem the last couple of years forcing turnovers. We forced less than 10 turnovers per game last year and that trend seems to be continuing this year. I'm not sure if its our defensive style or the guys on the court but if you're forcing less than 10 turnovers a game it's going to be difficult to win the turnover battle especially running the type of offense Purdue runs.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I totally agree with this. I can’t for the life of me remember though if NW got back in transition D after misses or if it was a conscious/coaching decision to slow that down. But I do remember saying push it after a few misses and we didn’t 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️.

Yes. More than once I yelled at my TV ...push it, after a rebound. LOL

They had a few opportunities, and instead Smith was told, as evidenced by his actions, to pull up & wait.

Understand we have the player of the year in Edey. But we have Smith & Jones too who can get out and go. Use all your weapons.....and don't coach to rely so much on one.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

It's not mentioned on this board much, but we've had a problem the last couple of years forcing turnovers. We forced less than 10 turnovers per game last year and that trend seems to be continuing this year. I'm not sure if its our defensive style or the guys on the court but if you're forcing less than 10 turnovers a game it's going to be difficult to win the turnover battle especially running the type of offense Purdue runs.

You can’t have it all. Purdue is not built to force turnovers, but it is built to force tough shots and get rebounds on defense. Purdue is built to steal possessions, not on defense, but on the offensive boards. The defense could definitely be more sound, but there will be nights when the opposing team makes the shots that Purdue allows them to have. In those cases, Purdue still can win because of its advantage on the other end. Last night, the Boilers shot poorly from the field and from the line and turned the ball over way too often, yet still forced overtime. Clean up the execution and Northwestern doesn’t hang around to make it a game.

 

[tjreese]

Also harder to "push" when they only turn it over 3 times. Also, 50% from 3. Those are statistical outliers.

Purdue normally doesn’t create turnovers and so it is on misses, especially misses that come off long that Purdue can push the ball. Less times available to push it last night. I haven’t seen the stats, but how does a team dominate the boards by 25 and not win? Did NW concede not going after their offensive boards to set their D with most their players other than their 5 to slow or stop a push? I don’t really know, but 25 extra possessions is HUGE or should be

 

[northside100]

Purdue normally doesn’t create turnovers and so it is on misses, especially misses that come off long that Purdue can push the ball. Less times available to push it last night. I haven’t seen the stats, but how does a team dominate the boards by 25 and not win? Did NW concede not going after their offensive boards to set their D with most their players other than their 5 to slow or stop a push? I don’t really know, but 25 extra possessions is HUGE or should be

I think you nailed it. Smith clearly has the green light to push off of misses. To me it looked like he was aggressively pushing again last night but would then hit half court and pull up. It looked to me like that was due to exactly what you stated, NU was selling out to get back on D and that (along with very limited turnovers) limited opportunities for fast breaks. I don't have data to back that up but I strongly doubt that Smith was told to 'not push the pace' by the coaching staff.

 

[SCBoiler1]

You can’t have it all. Purdue is not built to force turnovers, but it is built to force tough shots and get rebounds on defense. Purdue is built to steal possessions, not on defense, but on the offensive boards. The defense could definitely be more sound, but there will be nights when the opposing team makes the shots that Purdue allows them to have. In those cases, Purdue still can win because of its advantage on the other end. Last night, the Boilers shot poorly from the field and from the line and turned the ball over way too often, yet still forced overtime. Clean up the execution and Northwestern doesn’t hang around to make it a game.

I agree. My only point was one of things we hear from fans (and Painter) is that we need to "take care of the ball" better. While obviously a 17-3 margin is unacceptable, both Purdue's offense and defense structured so it's more likely than not that Purdue is going to lose the turnover battle.

For the last three years and again this year we've had a negative turnover ratio. My guess is it's because we don't have a guy who can really pressure the ball and be disruptive (Eastern, Davis) and we run the offense through our center. A lot of turnovers occur when you're trying to feed the post and kick it backout to open shooters.

I'm not saying the system is bad or it should be changed, but what I am saying is that fans shouldn't be surprised if we have more turnovers than our opponents going forward.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I don't disagree at all, but we were taking the ball out of the basket an awful lot because our defense couldn't stop them. Much harder to push on a make. But i do agree, when available push the tempo.

in the first half we could have pushed the tempo more

 

[Boiler Buck]

To me it looked like he was aggressively pushing again last night but would then hit half court and pull up. It .......... but I strongly doubt that Smith was told to 'not push the pace' by the coaching staff.

Agree with the first part 100%.

No evidence one way or another on the second part.....other than Smith's own actions of pulling it up when opportunity was there, not a lot, but definitely a handful of times.

Something to watch - one way or another, in the future.

 

[PaBoiler78]

Purdue normally doesn’t create turnovers and so it is on misses, especially misses that come off long that Purdue can push the ball. Less times available to push it last night. I haven’t seen the stats, but how does a team dominate the boards by 25 and not win? Did NW concede not going after their offensive boards to set their D with most their players other than their 5 to slow or stop a push? I don’t really know, but 25 extra possessions is HUGE or should be

they don't create turnovers and yet they still do that stupid double teaming to leave a wide open 3's from opposing guards. Marquette had 4 or 5 of them but missed them

 

[SCBoiler1]

Purdue normally doesn’t create turnovers and so it is on misses, especially misses that come off long that Purdue can push the ball. Less times available to push it last night. I haven’t seen the stats, but how does a team dominate the boards by 25 and not win? Did NW concede not going after their offensive boards to set their D with most their players other than their 5 to slow or stop a push? I don’t really know, but 25 extra possessions is HUGE or should be

Here's what made the game a toss-up:
Starting guards:
Northwestern FG 24/44, 3pt 15/29. Ast/TO 15/2
Purdue FG 12/31, 3pt 3/14, Ast/TO 10/9

Northwestern's starting guards outscored our guards by 33 points.

If you look at it from that prospective, its hard to believe we took it to overtime.

 

[Boiler Buck]

they don't create turnovers and yet they still do that stupid double teaming to leave a wide open 3's from opposing guards. Marquette had 4 or 5 of them but missed them

Yes that DT is on coaches. They coach it. Then complain when players don't get back in time.

I like DT when it produces results. But for THIS team, I think DT should be situation, when a guy is killing us for example. But to DT the post or a wing that is not killing us, perhaps not best coaching for THIS team, who is not causing TOs or creating problems by DT.

 

[northside100]

Agree with the first part 100%.

No evidence one way or another on the second part.....other than Smith's own actions of pulling it up when opportunity was there, not a lot, but definitely a handful of times.

Something to watch - one way or another, in the future.

Agree with all of that. I didn't see Smith pull up when I thought he should have pushed but that's totally subjective on my end.

 

[tjreese]

It's not mentioned on this board much, but we've had a problem the last couple of years forcing turnovers. We forced less than 10 turnovers per game last year and that trend seems to be continuing this year. I'm not sure if its our defensive style or the guys on the court but if you're forcing less than 10 turnovers a game it's going to be difficult to win the turnover battle especially running the type of offense Purdue runs.

Purdue plays more positional D similar to Wisconsin and many teams. It is uncommon for a turnover to be forced. Generally just a bad offensive decision or execution.

 

[Roeder]

I agree. My only point was one of things we hear from fans (and Painter) is that we need to "take care of the ball" better. While obviously a 17-3 margin is unacceptable, both Purdue's offense and defense structured so it's more likely than not that Purdue is going to lose the turnover battle.

For the last three years and again this year we've had a negative turnover ratio. My guess is it's because we don't have a guy who can really pressure the ball and be disruptive (Eastern, Davis) and we run the offense through our center. A lot of turnovers occur when you're trying to feed the post and kick it backout to open shooters.

I'm not saying the system is bad or it should be changed, but what I am saying is that fans shouldn't be surprised if we have more turnovers than our opponents going forward.

Exactly. There will be TOs feeding the post and with the bigs getting doubled. You live with those, but last night was especially sloppy

What you can't have is Smith dribbling to the sidelines and traveling with nowhere to go in crunch time. He'll be the first to tell you, but so many of his 6 TOs were bad decisions on his part and playing exactly into what NW wanted him to do.

Also, he needs to just go to the rim for layups, and on 70% of his drives I think it's there a lot more than he is taking it. Once he does that the easy passes for dunks will be there and he won't have to make the spectacular play as much. He always followed up a bad game with a good one last year, and I feel sorry for Iowa. He might hang 30 on them.

 

[A. Ness]

One thing I would have loved to see more of last night.....Purdue getting rebounds and running before D gets set. They didn't see the priority of a quick score last night. Too much waiting on Edey. To me this is a coaching decision, that needs to be changed. Push it.

Early in the season we saw this with Jones & Smith pushing it. Was GREAT. Either lay-ups or secondary break 3s. Would have liked to have seen this more last night. It was non existent for the most part.....and there were times it was available. It's not like there would have been more TOs or more empty possessions. Plenty of both last night. LOL

December has arrived for the November Champions.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

December has arrived for the November Champions.

Lets see what the next month holds

 

[tjreese]

I think you nailed it. Smith clearly has the green light to push off of misses. To me it looked like he was aggressively pushing again last night but would then hit half court and pull up. It looked to me like that was due to exactly what you stated, NU was selling out to get back on D and that (along with very limited turnovers) limited opportunities for fast breaks. I don't have data to back that up but I strongly doubt that Smith was told to 'not push the pace' by the coaching staff.

I am sure that Braden has the green light every time he sees an advantage. That is how they played every game so far this year. Matt WANTS easy baskets when they are highly efficient...and if not there, then he has a highly efficient 5 in the half court.

 

[tjreese]

Here's what made the game a toss-up:
Starting guards:
Northwestern FG 24/44, 3pt 15/29. Ast/TO 15/2
Purdue FG 12/31, 3pt 3/14, Ast/TO 10/9

Northwestern's starting guards outscored our guards by 33 points.

If you look at it from that prospective, its hard to believe we took it to overtime.

Purdue's front court outscored their front court. As a result Purdue shot 9 more FTs even though NW only had 29 fouls to Purdue's 27. Purdue has a much more probable situation of outscoring their bigs than NW has of shooting 50% from the 3 for as many makes the next time they play. Even with all the turnovers, no calls, wrong calls and mental mistakes Purdue is more likely to play a similar dominance inside than NW is to hit 50% of their 3 balls and that isn't even counting the missed 3 balls Purdue shot since I really don't know what to expect from Purdue.

NW will have the same guards as will Purdue the next time they play. Boo will still be great, but I don't look for them to hit as many and as high percentage behind the arc when they play next. It could happen, but I doubt it. Still, even with the timely 3 balls it took runners in the lane to beat Purdue and that has been a worry for some time. Matt is largely focused on the 3 ball. Matt's defense on screens is to have good D behind the arc even if you lose the mid range game. This is why Purdue goes over the top on D on screens and switches....Teams know this and get the switch they want. North Texas was good at this as was Purdue being bad in overhelping. You could go under screens and not switch if desired in more of a sinking or sagging D to try to gain the advantages of a zone, but like the zone you probably are allowing more good looks behind the arc. I feel for the kids getting beat up there, but this isn't the end of the world, and has no bearing on how Purdue may play for four games or so in the tourney. Lance helps make this team different. He just has to understand what is a good shot for him.

 

[Boiler Buck]

December has arrived for the November Champions.

Purdue will be B10 season champs. Major surprise if that's not the case.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I don’t really know, but 25 extra possessions is HUGE or should be

Well -14 turnover margin erases a chunk of that advantage.

 

[tjreese]

Well -14 turnover margin erases a chunk of that advantage.

no question. Still, it took them shooting lights out behind the arc to win in overtime even with the 14 turnover margin difference. I think NW played about as well as they are capable and I think Purdue can play a lot better and yet that difference I described, or believe, went to OT and most of us think Purdue should have still won. Had there been a -12 turnover margin which is horrible and they still shot lights out...Purdue probably wins in regulation. NW was at the top of their game I believe and I don't think Purdue was.