Plummer

[BCfanatic2020]

I agree that players have to be mentally tough enough to handle any type of criticism. But I think it’s funny when people that will never be as successful in their own careers criticize someone who was top 5% of all high school players. Even the worst player on Purdue is already more successful than 99% of all posters here. To say a player sucks is saying that you are something substantially worse than sucking in your own career.

I think that.. most people here, including myself are in some part motivated by a search for truth.

“if I want to accurately assess whether we can beat Ohio state on Saturday, it might help to assign values, however subjective, to our players and those of the opponent.”

so that if I say for example, that Douglas (who has turned out to remind me of mike rose to some extent and has been at least fine), is limited … I’m just trying to assess where we are so I don’t get my heart broken… I’m not like saying so and so is not a good guy

 

[Purdue85]

I assumed you would based off of your original post. I am just trying to point out the hypocrisy of trying to stop this one and not literally hundreds of others over the last few years. I have ignored several posters known for crapping on players and it still seems to pop up in at least every 3-4 threads.

That's not hypocrisy. "Hypocrisy" is often misused or misunderstood.

Hypocrisy: feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel

What you're attempting to illustrate is inconsistency.

That's completely different, and irrelevant to the point.

 

[purduepat1969]

I agree that players have to be mentally tough enough to handle any type of criticism. But I think it’s funny when people that will never be as successful in their own careers criticize someone who was top 5% of all high school players. Even the worst player on Purdue is already more successful than 99% of all posters here. To say a player sucks is saying that you are something substantially worse than sucking in your own career.

Playing football for Purdue doesn't make those players more "successful" than anyone else here. It just means they were more physically gifted than 99% of the people on this board. Yes, some of these players work their asses off. But so do a lot of people here who have to overcome not having the physical gifts these players have. Or maybe not having the mental gifts that others do. Get over yourself Karen...

And BTW, your IU Basketball program sucks...

 

[Beorik]

That's not hypocrisy. "Hypocrisy" is often misused or misunderstood.

Hypocrisy: feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel

What you're attempting to illustrate is inconsistency.

That's completely different, and irrelevant to the point.

My bad oh great one. Then I laugh at your inconsistency in trying to stop this thread and not all the others.

 

[Beorik]

That's not hypocrisy. "Hypocrisy" is often misused or misunderstood.

Hypocrisy: feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel

What you're attempting to illustrate is inconsistency.

That's completely different, and irrelevant to the point.

However by this definition

the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

I would argue that because of your past behavior doesn’t conform to the the standards you are trying to tout on this thread it could be considered hypocritical.

 

[Purdue85]

However by this definition

the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

I would argue that because of your past behavior doesn’t conform to the the standards you are trying to tout on this thread it could be considered hypocritical.

you took two replies to the same post?

I don't have "past behavior" that doesn't "conform". Suggesting so is bullsh*t.

I would defy you to find anything I've posted that fits the definition of being "hypocritical".

If you don't like that people have focused on one thing and not another, that's cool. Fair game. Open for discussion.

That in no way is "hypocritical".

Stop trying to argue for the sake of arguing. If there's something worthy of debate, out with it. Make your case.

 

[Beorik]

you took two replies to the same post?

I don't have "past behavior" that doesn't "conform". Suggesting so is bullsh*t.

I would defy you to find anything I've posted that fits the definition of being "hypocritical".

If you don't like that people have focused on one thing and not another, that's cool. Fair game. Open for discussion.

That in no way is "hypocritical".

Stop trying to argue for the sake of arguing. If there's something worthy of debate, out with it. Make your case.

You stop lol. You literally started this when I disagreed that this threat should be shut down.

In fact I didn’t even really disagree. I just said that if this one should go then a LOT of threads should.

And I am fine with you disagreeing. I just think it is hypocritical (or inconsistent) to want this one down but not the hundreds of others including every single game thread.

Stop being so mad home skillet.

 

[SCBoiler1]

This is a Purdue Football forum. Like it or not Purdue now has a dilemma on who the starting QB should be. If you listen to the podcast posted on this very site it's literally the number one topic. If we as fans can't discuss the pros and cons of starting either QB than why have a discussion board?

What has been posted on this Board is nothing different than you would see on the BTN or ESPN (if Purdue had a national presence). Heck they even discuss these kinds of things during the game. How do you think the QBs at Alabama, Oklahoma. Georgia, Ohio State or Clemson survive? I hope none of the players watch a recording of the game because they might get their feelings hurt? And by the way do you think Plummer isn't being told by the coaches he needs to push the ball down field?

I'm sure they take the critique from their coaches, ex coaches and analyst more seriously than a bunch of old men on a discussion board that literally has less than 100 posters on a regular basis.

 

[bonefish1]

AOC seems to have the superior arm talent. The offense just seems to respond better with him because of it.

Now combine his throwing ability with Bell being available and think what that could do for the offense. Can't remember, but don't think we've seen AOC on the field with Bell this season.

I don't think AOC has the better arm, but I do think he has a better pocket presence (when there is one). It seems like Plummers first response to pressure is to try and get outside the pocket while AOC was looking to where he could move within the pocket.

 

[Purdue85]

You stop lol. You literally started this when I disagreed that this threat should be shut down.

In fact I didn’t even really disagree. I just said that if this one should go then a LOT of threads should.

And I am fine with you disagreeing. I just think it is hypocritical (or inconsistent) to want this one down but not the hundreds of others including every single game thread.

Stop being so mad home skillet.

not much of substance in your post. My point remains, and the childish "you started it" is irrelevant.

"mad"
lol

 

[Indy_Rider]

I don't think AOC has the better arm, but I do think he has a better pocket presence (when there is one). It seems like Plummers first response to pressure is to try and get outside the pocket while AOC was looking to where he could move within the pocket.

Then maybe it's more a matter of confidence in his arm, but AOC seems to be able to put the balls in places Plummer can not, whether it's arm talent or just confidence in their ability. Either way, Plummer just seems to be lacking what AOC has.

I do like Plummer's escapability from pressure, but once you escape, you need to be able to make a play.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I don't think AOC has the better arm, but I do think he has a better pocket presence (when there is one). It seems like Plummers first response to pressure is to try and get outside the pocket while AOC was looking to where he could move within the pocket.

Stronger arm doesn’t necessarily equal better “arm talent”, which also includes release time, accuracy, and ability to make throws from varying angles.

 

[bonefish1]

Then maybe it's more a matter of confidence in his arm, but AOC seems to be able to put the balls in places Plummer can not, whether it's arm talent or just confidence in their ability. Either way, Plummer just seems to be lacking what AOC has.

I do like Plummer's escapability from pressure, but once you escape, you need to be able to make a play.

Agreed. Plummer looks the part coming off the bus (6'4, 225, etc), but he either lacks confidence in pulling the trigger, is afraid to make a mistake, or has no confidence in his protection to allow him to sit in the pocket (meaning, he's not giving his receivers enough time to get open and as soon as he feels any pressure, he's either scrambling to hitting his checkdown.)

I'm sure the line isn't trying to block any better for AOC than for JP, but AOC is the one going through his progressions and finding the open man downfield.

 

[bonefish1]

Stronger arm doesn’t necessarily equal better “arm talent”, which also includes release time, accuracy, and ability to make throws from varying angles.

AOC is throwing a catchable ball and finding the open guy downfield. But, his arm strength issue was evident on the int in the end zone. That ball needs to be on a frozen rope with mustard on top, but he just didn't have the arm to rifle it into that tight window.
The other int was completely on the TE. That ball literally hit him in the face.

 

[Indy_Rider]

Agreed. Plummer looks the part coming off the bus (6'4, 225, etc), but he either lacks confidence in pulling the trigger, is afraid to make a mistake, or has no confidence in his protection to allow him to sit in the pocket (meaning, he's not giving his receivers enough time to get open and as soon as he feels any pressure, he's either scrambling to hitting his checkdown.)

I'm sure the line isn't trying to block any better for AOC than for JP, but AOC is the one going through his progressions and finding the open man downfield.

I think part of it might be AOC knows his limitations and that he's not a huge threat to scramble. So he's more willing to stand in the pocket and continue to go through progressions and if it he gets hit, he gets hit.

When you scramble out to avoid pressure, you have to start your reads all over again and you've eliminated all the players on the side of the field you rolled away from.

 

[Heiner]

He wants to say "I told you so"...

He's smarter than everyone else...

Come on Pat. I could have used a softer tone but I speak the truth. AOC has poise and what we older guys call “moxey”. I want Plummer to establish himself as much as everyone else but he doesn’t have it.

 

[Heiner]

It’s not that he won’t.. I’m telling you the game is coming at him too fast and he can’t get through reads as fast as Oconnell. That pass to yaseen was not the first or second read …

Someone who understands. This X1000

 

[Heiner]

I assumed you would based off of your original post. I am just trying to point out the hypocrisy of trying to stop this one and not literally hundreds of others over the last few years. I have ignored several posters known for crapping on players and it still seems to pop up in at least every 3-4 threads.

I’m not crapping on anyone. I should have started this in a softer tone but if we can’t have open discussions about topics like this then we need to all grab a glass of milk and caress our participation trophy.

 

[Beorik]

I’m not crapping on anyone. I should have started this in a softer tone but if we can’t have open discussions about topics like this then we need to all grab a glass of milk and caress our participation trophy.

Yeah as far as player criticism goes I think this thread is pretty tame.

I think most of us thinks that Plummer is talented enough to win a lot of games at Purdue. Something just seems off this season. I hope the coaches figure out what it is because moving forward I think we are going to need the Plummer that we saw last year.

Boiler Up!

 

[Purdue85]

I’m not crapping on anyone. I should have started this in a softer tone but if we can’t have open discussions about topics like this then we need to all grab a glass of milk and caress our participation trophy.

You're correct: It was the "tone", as well as the overall approach.

Not being an @sshole here, but It's also an issue of "class", and the original post was missing that. There's a way to have civil discussion about the effectiveness of a specific player, and your post didn't approach that.

If you think having class is equivalent to the approach that "we need to all grab a glass of milk and caress our participation trophy", that point is lost here.

 

[purduepat1969]

Come on Pat. I could have used a softer tone but I speak the truth. AOC has poise and what we older guys call “moxey”. I want Plummer to establish himself as much as everyone else but he doesn’t have it.

You were crapping all over Plummer by posting the way you did. It really served no purpose...

 

[jindy]

O'Connell was going to Yaseen all the way on that long completion, he never looked anywhere else. Wright ran the underneath crossing route and O'Connell basically threw it to a spot for Yaseen to go and get it.